Browns fans are a confusing bunch.

[Tour2ma]

7 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

What I'm saying is no other team was willing to make the deal the Cleveland Browns made. Draft picks? Sure maybe. 5 year guaranteed quarter of a billion dollars? Apparently not since it was clear he preferred any other team to Cleveland.

And if the Lombardi trophy is inJimmy Haslam's rec room this time next year you guys can certainly gloat and tell me I was wrong. 

I don't think I'm the only guy that's ever taken a wait-and-see position when it comes to the next savior of the Browns.

Well... we all have to wait and see and I have apprehensions as well,.... but the3 PBs man has the on-field credentials. ROY... 3 PBs... 4900 season...

[Westside Steve]

28 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Well... we all have to wait and see and I have apprehensions as well,.... but the3 PBs man has the on-field credentials. ROY... 3 PBs... 4900 season...

Again I think I've listed my objections pretty clearly. And my concerns and my consternation, and my doubts. Anyway we don't agree on everything but hopefully this will give you extra incentive to hang on so you can gloat if I'm wrong.

❤️👍

WSS

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

You'll have to link those talking heads, if they're worth reading. 

SB Nation... While he can jam and be disruptive from press, he lacks ideal pedal fluidity and change of direction in man coverage, struggling to make up the lost steps when overaggressive. Overall, Emerson lacks quick-twitch athleticism and functional play strength, but he shows a natural feel for spacing and disruption in zone coverage.

There was more, but I'm not in the mood to research. Supposedly when MSU played Alabama they deliberately targeted him. Only one interception his entire college career, and a 4.5 in the 40 is pedestrian for a cornerback. .  

[tiamat63]

2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Ur on for a beer. STs and a few tries at CB where he either gets burned or flagged.

Vague... but I'll roll with it.

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

Vague... but I'll roll with it.

Tia, if he busts... At least we didn't waste a first round pick on him like (barf) Justin Gilbert.  SI only ranked Bad Puppy in the Doghouse Mike Junkin, and Johnny Foosball at #1 higher.  

I find little to disagree with on their list.    https://www.si.com/nfl/The-10-Biggest-Draft-Busts-in-Cleveland-Browns-History

BTW, MHO trading away several picks to the Bills  (including a first rounder) for Tom Cousineau rates up there with shipping Paul Warfield to the 'Fins for Mike Phipps.  And who you might ask, did the Bills select with that first round pick they got from the Browns? Jim Kelly. You may barf now.    

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

BTW, MHO trading away several picks to the Bills  (including a first rounder) for Tom Cousineau rates up there with shipping Paul Warfield to the 'Fins for Mike Phipps.  And who you might ask, did the Bills select with that first round pick they got from the Browns? Jim Kelly. You may barf now.    

What absolutely blows my mind is that as bad as Mike Phipps was for the Browns - and for a good amount of years too - the Browns somehow got a first round pick out of the Chicago Bears for him that netted the Browns Clay Matthews Jr. 

So it might be said that Mike Phipps was involved in the worst AND best trade in Browns history. 

[The Cysko Kid]

On 4/30/2022 at 12:10 PM, Dutch Oven said:

I couldn't hear you over your Baker Mayfield jersey.... 😆

Baker has been the only consistent quarterback since 1999. Am I in love with him? No. Am I sorry to see him go? Kind of, but I'll live. Do I think Deshaun Watson is the answer? I do not, but we'll see. 

[mjp28]

53 minutes ago, The Cysko Kid said:

Baker has been the only consistent quarterback since 1999. Am I in love with him? No. Am I sorry to see him go? Kind of, but I'll live. Do I think Deshaun Watson is the answer? I do not, but we'll see. 

That pretty much sums it up.

It appears that the BROWNS F0, staff, coaching and anyone else with any input on the matter have decided to move on to another quarterback to lead the Cleveland BROWNS.....that much has been determined. 

What will happen to Baker Mayfield as of Tuesday May 3 at noon.....TBD.

What will happen with DeShawn Watson and all of the details......TBD.

Anything else right now is just speculation   -but-  there are a few things that are out there now.

The draft is over and we must move on from there....... *edit add, unless you like to plow the same old manure fields over and over again.   

GO BROWNS  !  

Edited May 3, 2022 by mjp28

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, The Cysko Kid said:

Baker has been the only consistent quarterback since 1999. Am I in love with him? No. Am I sorry to see him go? Kind of, but I'll live. Do I think Deshaun Watson is the answer? I do not, but we'll see. 

Actually, Baker was inconsistent. Two good years, two bad years.  Were his bad outings last season due to that injury? I was willing to give him 2022 to try and prove that 2021 was an injury fluke year.  However, the Browns Front Office and Coaching Staff were not. 

Browns fans had become so used to truly lousy quarterbacking, when Baker came along and won a playoff game (thanks in large part to the Steelers committing SIX turnovers) some fans were willing to put his statue up outside the stadium. I hope the Browns aren't making a huge mistake. But the general lack of interest in the NFL in bringing Baker on board- as of now- seems like Berry made the right call. 

& as I've said a bunch of times, I'm less than thrilled about who they brought in as a replacement.   

[Zombo]

On 5/1/2022 at 9:36 PM, Westside Steve said:

1 That's true. And yes we have all been there, no doubt. And that's why I'm not basing my objection on that oh, have you read anything I've said on the subject?

But just for the record Ben Roethlisberger wasn't charged with anything.

As for the holdout. I haven't read any stories that said it was anything about a deconstruction but that he was pissed off about some but he didn't like being hired. And since with his ridiculous guaranteed contract probably won't have much motivation to hang in there wouldn't have any of the Browns brass does something he doesn't like.

As far as caring about somebody getting a handjob there were reams of bellyaching about Bob Kraft. And if I'm not mistaken Roethlisberger is white. And he still got suspended.

 

Tom Brady was a free agent. Aaron Rodgers never sat out except for injury. Afaik. J.j. watt asked for a release and was granted. By the way I didn't want Aaron Rodgers either and he's white. I know that's your first concern these days.

And at the end of the day the price was insane. Nothing but a Super Bowl victory probably multiple Super Bowl victories would be anywhere near worth the crossed. For anybody regardless of race. Or sexual imprudence

WSS

Race is my first concern? I wasn't anywhere near there, and you brought up a rope and a tree. I guess that is where your mind goes.

He's a single guy trying to get laid who was disgruntled with his dysfunctional team and wanted to get traded. Those are his "crimes". So the team he wants to leave notifies sleazy lawyer about his penchant for massage girls, and here we are.

You keep bringing up Roethlisberger. You realize no cared that he had sex with a girl in the bathroom, right? There was a rape implication because she alleged that she was forced to perform while his buddies blocked the door.

There is not even a whisper that any of Watson's women were forced to do anything. In fact, your cohort, Cal, is telling me that the women were flown in from across the country and put up in nice hotels and they were sometimes unlicensed ... Cool! They aren't drunk girls locked in a bathroom feeling forced ... They are flying to come see him!

So he likes getting laid and he wanted traded ... what are we talking about again?

Zombo

[Westside Steve]

1 hour ago, Zombo said:

Race is my first concern? I wasn't anywhere near there, and you brought up a rope and a tree. I guess that is where your mind goes.

He's a single guy trying to get laid who was disgruntled with his dysfunctional team and wanted to get traded. Those are his "crimes". So the team he wants to leave notifies sleazy lawyer about his penchant for massage girls, and here we are.

You keep bringing up Roethlisberger. You realize no cared that he had sex with a girl in the bathroom, right? There was a rape implication because she alleged that she was forced to perform while his buddies blocked the door.

There is not even a whisper that any of Watson's women were forced to do anything. In fact, your cohort, Cal, is telling me that the women were flown in from across the country and put up in nice hotels and they were sometimes unlicensed ... Cool! They aren't drunk girls locked in a bathroom feeling forced ... They are flying to come see him!

So he likes getting laid and he wanted traded ... what are we talking about again?

Zombo

I'm not sure what the fuck you guys want from me? Maybe the race card means nothing to you and it's just some of your cohorts posting pictures of burning crosses and talking about skin hue. And one more f****** time I am completely aware that b****** will cry foul for attention or money or whatever. I spent my life playing rock and roll music for a living and I used to be skinnier and better-looking so there.

(That's why I say f*** the me-too movement which pissed somebody off.)

Let me repeat one more time Baker is my guy. I love his commitment I love his attitude and I believe he can get the job done with the right Supporting Cast. One of the few guys who has been here for four years; had some ups and had some downs. Play through some complete shit situations with this team. Hue Jackson Greg Williams Freddie Kitchens. If he's washed up, he's washed up but I don't have to like it. I remember plenty of guys on this board that despised all-around nice guy Vinny Testaverde for no other reason than he came in to replace Bernie Kosar. And Bernie was washed up. I still think Mayfield has more good football left in him. Starting football.

And the reference to Roethlisberger is two fold first of all his accusations got him a suspension. And I think the drunken floozy willingly banged him in the crapper. And we've called him Rapistburger ever since. And there's the possibility the 22 accusations might not even give Watson one game? Or they're going to wait till it blows over?

So I think the worst I've said is I'm going to wait and see if this insane deal was worth it. And make no mistake with no Super Bowl win we got screwed. Just like so many of you guys take a wait-and-see position, but in this case you s*** your pants because I said.

(oh I've also take an affront to the fact that he didn't want to be in Cleveland until he was offered an insane about of money.) Teddy Bilgewater or Twatwater earned that moniker just for saying he didn't want to come to Cleveland.

So there is my rant; hey at least I'm sober.

I'm going out later for some IPA if you see a response after 10 or 11 just disregard.

😎

WSS

 

[Tour2ma]

I Have rarely enjoyed an APA... But they beat IPAs by a mile.

 

And we were all better looking and skinnier... once upon a time.

[TexasAg1969]

39 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

I Have rarely enjoyed an APA... But they beat IPAs by a mile.

 

And we were all better looking and skinnier... once upon a time.

Yep, and the the older I get the better I was.😂

[Dutch Oven]

3 hours ago, hoorta said:

Actually, Baker was inconsistent. Two good years, two bad years.  Were his bad outings last season due to that injury? I was willing to give him 2022 to try and prove that 2021 was an injury fluke year.  However, the Browns Front Office and Coaching Staff were not. 

Browns fans had become so used to truly lousy quarterbacking, when Baker came along and won a playoff game (thanks in large part to the Steelers committing SIX turnovers) some fans were willing to put his statue up outside the stadium. I hope the Browns aren't making a huge mistake. But the general lack of interest in the NFL in bringing Baker on board- as of now- seems like Berry made the right call. 

& as I've said a bunch of times, I'm less than thrilled about who they brought in as a replacement.   

There definitely seems to be three camps on here regarding this situation. 

Camp 1: Ride With Baker Til I Die Crew: Hate that Baker lost his job, hate that Deshaun Watson is the new QB.

Camp 2: Well Isn't This Some Shit Crew: Fine with Baker no longer being the starting QB, but not thrilled that he was replaced with Deshaun Watson, due mostly to ethical reasons, but also due to the cost to get Watson.

Camp 3: Happy Days Are Here Again Crew: Thrilled Baker lost his job, thrilled that Deshaun Watson is the new QB. 

The hilarious thing is that most of the fights have come from Camp 1 attacking members of Camp 2, accusing them being solidly in Camp 3 😄

[calfoxwc]

2 hours ago, Zombo said:

In fact, your cohort, Cal, is telling me that the women were flown in from across the country and put up in nice hotels and they were sometimes unlicensed ...

So?

https://blacksportsonline.com/2022/04/deshaun-watsons-secret-hotel-room-where-he-brought-unlicensed-massage-therapists-to-revealed-to-be-at-the-houstonian/

anybody here want "sleazy" to be the face of the franchise and have kids look up to him?

anybody?

[Zombo]

52 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

So?

https://blacksportsonline.com/2022/04/deshaun-watsons-secret-hotel-room-where-he-brought-unlicensed-massage-therapists-to-revealed-to-be-at-the-houstonian/

anybody here want "sleazy" to be the face of the franchise and have kids look up to him?

anybody?

Yes.

He's a terrific quarterback. 

If your kids don't know that single men like to have sex with single women, then it's time to free them from the compound in Utah where you are holding them.

Z

[Dutch Oven]

59 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

So?

https://blacksportsonline.com/2022/04/deshaun-watsons-secret-hotel-room-where-he-brought-unlicensed-massage-therapists-to-revealed-to-be-at-the-houstonian/

anybody here want "sleazy" to be the face of the franchise and have kids look up to him?

anybody?

Even for cal, the hypocrisy is staggering.

[Zombo]

2 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

I'm not sure what the fuck you guys want from me? Maybe the race card means nothing to you and it's just some of your cohorts posting pictures of burning crosses and talking about skin hue. And one more f****** time I am completely aware that b****** will cry foul for attention or money or whatever. I spent my life playing rock and roll music for a living and I used to be skinnier and better-looking so there.

(That's why I say f*** the me-too movement which pissed somebody off.)

Let me repeat one more time Baker is my guy. I love his commitment I love his attitude and I believe he can get the job done with the right Supporting Cast. One of the few guys who has been here for four years; had some ups and had some downs. Play through some complete shit situations with this team. Hue Jackson Greg Williams Freddie Kitchens. If he's washed up, he's washed up but I don't have to like it. I remember plenty of guys on this board that despised all-around nice guy Vinny Testaverde for no other reason than he came in to replace Bernie Kosar. And Bernie was washed up. I still think Mayfield has more good football left in him. Starting football.

And the reference to Roethlisberger is two fold first of all his accusations got him a suspension. And I think the drunken floozy willingly banged him in the crapper. And we've called him Rapistburger ever since. And there's the possibility the 22 accusations might not even give Watson one game? Or they're going to wait till it blows over?

So I think the worst I've said is I'm going to wait and see if this insane deal was worth it. And make no mistake with no Super Bowl win we got screwed. Just like so many of you guys take a wait-and-see position, but in this case you s*** your pants because I said.

(oh I've also take an affront to the fact that he didn't want to be in Cleveland until he was offered an insane about of money.) Teddy Bilgewater or Twatwater earned that moniker just for saying he didn't want to come to Cleveland.

So there is my rant; hey at least I'm sober.

I'm going out later for some IPA if you see a response after 10 or 11 just disregard.

😎

WSS

 

I love Baker too, but Watson is a much better qb, the evidence is profound.

Baker bridged us from embarrassment to respectability,  and I am forever grateful, but we have a Super Bowl Roster with a bunch of studs in their prime, and in Baker's best year we made the Final 4 in the AFC, but we are in the business if Super Bowls, and Watson gives us a better shot. He's incredibly accurate, mobile and a leader of Men.

Zero of Baker's teammates are taking up for him. He had a very good and memorable run, be we upgraded and I'm all for that.

Z

[nickers]

24 minutes ago, Zombo said:

I love Baker too, but Watson is a much better qb, the evidence is profound.

Baker bridged us from embarrassment to respectability,  and I am forever grateful, but we have a Super Bowl Roster with a bunch of studs in their prime, and in Baker's best year we made the Final 4 in the AFC, but we are in the business if Super Bowls, and Watson gives us a better shot. He's incredibly accurate, mobile and a leader of Men.

Zero of Baker's teammates are taking up for him. He had a very good and memorable run, be we upgraded and I'm all for that.

Z

A leader of men?.. LOL He can't even lead his own peepee... his Peepee controls him... Please...

[syd]

7 minutes ago, nickers said:

A leader of men?.. LOL He can't even lead his own peepee... his Peepee controls him... Please...

seems other players want to play for him and dont give a damn about where his pecker takes him

[syd]

7 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

Could you image if our Resting in peace pal, The Gipper was still around to respond to some of this?  The page total would be doubled if not tripled? 

Question to the members that knew him best...What side of this, do we think the Gipper would have been on? 

🙏 your missed Gip..RIP

gip would say innocent untill proven guilty

[Dutch Oven]

12 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

Could you image if our Resting in peace pal, The Gipper was still around to respond to some of this?  The page total would be doubled if not tripled? 

Question to the members that knew him best...What side of this, do we think the Gipper would have been on? 

🙏 your missed Gip..RIP

Wow, that's an interesting question, gumby. 

I honestly don't know where he would have been on this, I would guess Steve would of anyone here.

It would have been real interesting what Gip would have thought of the whole grand jury/no indictment situation, though. He would have been good to have around for that, for sure. 

[Westside Steve]

1 hour ago, Zombo said:

I love Baker too, but Watson is a much better qb, the evidence is profound.

Baker bridged us from embarrassment to respectability,  and I am forever grateful, but we have a Super Bowl Roster with a bunch of studs in their prime, and in Baker's best year we made the Final 4 in the AFC, but we are in the business if Super Bowls, and Watson gives us a better shot. He's incredibly accurate, mobile and a leader of Men.

Zero of Baker's teammates are taking up for him. He had a very good and memorable run, be we upgraded and I'm all for that.

Z

Nobody whose job counts on the front office or getting along with the new quarterback is going to take a big stand. Face it.

WSS 

[Zombo]

45 minutes ago, nickers said:

A leader of men?.. LOL He can't even lead his own peepee... his Peepee controls him... Please...

Do you think NFL colleagues give a shit if he is plowing every masseuse in the land?

Have you ever worked with a group of men? You don't lose credibility by having a lot of sex.

Z

[Zombo]

10 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Nobody whose job counts on the front office or getting along with the new quarterback is going to take a big stand. Face it.

WSS 

Ex-teammates? Crickets.

Teams interested in his services? Crickets.

The interviews about having his feelings hurt and booing people at their cubicles hasn't helped. 

I know he's a good player, but he is in his own self-induced purgatory right now. I would love to see him conquer all of his critics ... as long as it is in the NFC.

Z

[Orion]

2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

There definitely seems to be three camps on here regarding this situation. 

Camp 1: Ride With Baker Til I Die Crew: Hate that Baker lost his job, hate that Deshaun Watson is the new QB.

Camp 2: Well Isn't This Some Shit Crew: Fine with Baker no longer being the starting QB, but not thrilled that he was replaced with Deshaun Watson, due mostly to ethical reasons, but also due to the cost to get Watson.

Camp 3: Happy Days Are Here Again Crew: Thrilled Baker lost his job, thrilled that Deshaun Watson is the new QB. 

Nice...but there's a Camp 2.5:  Came to the conclusion that Baker is not good enough.  Is inspired by the fact that the organization saw it the same way and brought in a statistically superior QB.  And quietly has crossed fingers that any legal and/or maturity issues will iron themselves out favorably.  

Watson is statistically superior.....but he didn't have to play in the AFC North.  Perhaps his completion percentage will change somewhat at his new latitude.  

I do agree with the idea that Watson is single, and like me, likes girls.  As long as he didn't verbally or physically mistreat any of them, then, in this day and age.......  -  The thing is, we DON'T know what exactly these girls are saying that he did.  What did he say to them when they said no to him?  What did he do to them when they said no to him?    We know that the Browns organization talked to him and looked into the situation in their own way.  And we know that Dee is on the NFL ethics committee.  They still went ahead and traded for him.  So far, nothing shows that they made the wrong decision....but it's early yet.

ALSO, there may be a Camp 1.5:  The people that think that all we gave up, picks and guaranteed money, is too much to give up for most anyone, let alone him. 

[nickers]

45 minutes ago, Zombo said:

Do you think NFL colleagues give a shit if he is plowing every masseuse in the land?

Have you ever worked with a group of men? You don't lose credibility by having a lot of sex.

Z

I don't have a problem that he loves broads.. What dude doesn't?.. Hes a dumb fuck for getting himself into this mess.. What part of that do you not understand Z?... If he's this dumb.. What other stupid shit is he gonna do?.. That's a bit worrisome... He obviously didn't learn from the Kraft ordeal...

[Dutch Oven]

5 minutes ago, Orion said:

Nice...but there's a Camp 2.5:  Came to the conclusion that Baker is not good enough.  Is inspired by the fact that the organization saw it the same way and brought in a statistically superior QB.  And quietly has crossed fingers that any legal and/or maturity issues will iron themselves out favorably.  

Watson is statistically superior.....but he didn't have to play in the AFC North.  Perhaps his completion percentage will change somewhat at his new latitude.  

I do agree with the idea that Watson is single, and like me, likes girls.  As long as he didn't verbally or physically mistreat any of them, then, in this day and age.......  -  The thing is, we DON'T know what exactly these girls are saying that he did.  What did he say to them when they said no to him?  What did he do to them when they said no to him?    We know that the Browns organization talked to him and looked into the situation in their own way.  And we know that Dee is on the NFL ethics committee.  They still went ahead and traded for him.  So far, nothing shows that they made the wrong decision....but it's early yet.

ALSO, there may be a Camp 1.5:  The people that think that all we gave up, picks and guaranteed money, is too much to give up for most anyone, let alone him. 

That's just too many goddamn camps 😁

It's a fascinating storyline to follow for years, that's not debatable. I feel the Browns definitely upgraded the most important position in sports with the acquisition of Watson, but am still dumbfounded that the Texans were able to command such a staggering amount of draft picks for a player who could very well be suspended for a big chunk of games, and is such a polarizing player PR-wise. I'm dumbfounded that Watson, under these circumstances, could command a FULLY-GUARANTEED contract like he did. I've said it before, and I agree with others who say it, for this to be worth it, you really have to get a Super Bowl trophy out of it. (Even if I think the Browns with Baker for say the next five years would have had very little chance at a Super Bowl. I think he's hit his ceiling)

One thing that doesn't make sense to me is I keep hearing or reading about how the Browns are stuck with Mayfield because "everyone knows they have to get rid of him and they have no leverage..." If this is so, why weren't the Texans in the same boat with Watson? He sat out the entire season instead of playing for Houston. What leverage did they have?  

[mjp28]

1 hour ago, Zombo said:

Do you think NFL colleagues give a shit if he is plowing every masseuse in the land?

Have you ever worked with a group of men? You don't lose credibility by having a lot of sex.

Z

Well  having worked in the steel industry for over 20 years I can tell you that the subjects of sex and broads do come up.

The NFL colleagues might not care about Watson's sex life    -but-  it can and has thrown a bad light on our BROWNS. 

It's a good thing this thread is about "Browns fans are a confusing bunch. 

A lot depends on what happens from here on out.

GO BROWNS  !

[Orion]

8 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

That's just too many goddamn camps 😁

10 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

am still dumbfounded that the Texans were able to command such a staggering amount of draft picks for a player who could very well be suspended for a big chunk of games, and is such a polarizing player PR-wise. I'm dumbfounded that Watson, under these circumstances, could command a FULLY-GUARANTEED contract like he did

Remember, That's what it cost to bring him to CLEVELAND.  He doesn't LIKE the north...and there's no dome.  Before Cleveland even gets to bat at the bargaining table it's got a couple of strikes against it.

 

16 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

One thing that doesn't make sense to me is I keep hearing or reading about how the Browns are stuck with Mayfield because "everyone knows they have to get rid of him and they have no leverage..." If this is so, why weren't the Texans in the same boat with Watson?

Talent.  Watson is perceived to have a lot of it, and Baker right now is not perceived to have all that much.  Perception is reality.....until it isn't.