Watson Suspended for 11 Games and Fined $5 Million / and a bit OT and back.

[gumby73]

5 hours ago, Orion said:

So, is this the end of day 2?    Of the 3 days that the NFL has to appeal?  

Per The Dan Patrick show.. This Thursday 9am is the cutoff time.. I chose to wait this out..

This whole 'process' is a suits cluster-fuk imo.. Sue Robinson is not the blame here.. D. Watson is..

while the NFLPA should have never signed anything on letting players, loss games/fines get back into God-dell's 'process' on appeal.

Tick. Tick.tick

[Orion]

22 hours ago, hoorta said:

as Ms. Arbitrator wrote in her opinion,  the Personal conduct policy agreed on in the player's contract says 6 game max for a violation.  You can't change the rules retroactively.

'nuff said.....in reality, right?  If they want to amend the policy, well, there's probably a procedure in place for that.  But what changes may or may not be put forth in the future doesn't apply in the here and now.

[DieHardBrownsFan1]

[Orion]

22 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

Per The Dan Patrick show.. This Thursday 9am is the cut time.

Thanks.  So we're just about half way through...

[FY56]

5 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

I can tell you without a moment of hesitation that I'd rather watch shitty football than win with Watson. I'll always be a fan of the Browns, but any success associated with Watson will feel like a tarnished crown to me. I just don't how on Earth I'll be able to cheer, or even be happy, assuming he has success playing the position. 

Although I don't find myself going to that extreme, I don't blame you at all for feeling the way you do.

But how would you feel if Watson was to serve a full year suspension rather than a six game?

Rizzo on KNR played a montage of media taking heads expressing their opinion on the suspension, and one believing Watson deserves a one year suspension stuck out as making a lot of sense....

He said that upon completion of Watsons lengthy one year suspension, fans most conflicted about Watson would come around and be of the mindset that the man has paid his dues ...and that it is now time forgive and forget and get back to playing football, and that's exactly how I would feel.

At this point he still remains a scumbag to a lot of Browns fans.

 

[hoorta]

4 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

As I've used before, all I'm going to say in response is "a rotten apple spoils the bunch". Further, this isn't JUST Watson-it's owners and an organization who made a conscious choice to go this route.

I haven't forgotten those awful days, at all. But that doesn't change my mind at all either.

“Watson then started to masturbate," the suit said, and the woman immediately stopped the massage. “Apparently responding to the look of shock on (the woman’s) face, Watson said to (the woman) ‘Relax. It is okay to touch it.' ” the suit said.

When she refused, Watson stood and “continued masturbating more aggressively,” the suit said.

As he did so, he also asked the woman, “Where do you want me to put it?” the suit said, adding that the woman was “in complete shock and could not speak. She froze.”

Watson then quickly ejaculated, the suit said, and “some of his ejaculate got on (the woman’s) chest and face,” the suit said.

The woman immediately left the room to clean up. Watson dressed, “offered no apology or explanation for his conduct,” left and paid her $150 via Cash App.

The woman called her close friend afterward and told her what happened. “They were both mortified by Watson’s conduct,” the suit said.

Sure, just handjobs. At least admit you are ignoring things.

I'm certainly not ignoring that... And the other sleazy instances...  She never saw a guy beat off before in her life though?  Eventually got way more than $150 bucks to help her get over the shock... High five $$$$$ figures? 

Regarding the Browns Office & coaching staff who signed off on bringing DW into town, they had better be right about his playing ability, or they're all going to be looking for employment elsewhere.  

[mjp28]

11 minutes ago, hoorta said:

I'm certainly not ignoring that... And the other sleazy instances...  She never saw a guy beat off before in her life though?  Eventually got way more than $150 bucks to help her get over the shock... High five $$$$$ figures? 

Regarding the Browns Office & coaching staff who signed off on bringing DW into town, they had better be right about his playing ability, or they're all going to be looking for employment elsewhere.  

Something tells me some staff might have started that already.   Who knows.   Good night everyone.   

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan1 said:

I don't know about "remorseful"..  At least publicly.  Was I wrong hearing it somewhere Judge Robinson said he might have gotten off lighter with an apology, instead of continually harping "I didn't do anything wrong"?  

[gumby73]

Can't find this posted.. so

 Here's Sue Robinson's 16 pages of findings..(pg.5)

 https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/08/01/sports/football/deshaun-watson-suspension-decision.html

[FY56]

The largest U.S. anti-sexual assault group wants the NFL to appeal the Deshaun Watson ruling (yahoo.com)

Berkowitz, speaking three hours after the ruling, reasoned that a year-long suspension was “the minimum that should have been put into place, given the seriousness of [Watson’s actions].”

“There's no length that will make up for the harm that he's done to these dozens of women,” he said. “But I think at least a year makes a pretty strong statement that this is not gonna be tolerated.”

The six games, on the other hand, “unfortunately mirrors what we experience in the criminal justice system,” Donisha Greene, the director of community engagement at the Cleveland Rape Crisis Center, said in an interview. “It sends a message to the community that those who are in a position of power and celebrity are not held accountable for their actions when they commit violence against others.”

 

Violence? I don't agree with the reasoning the above two people have for advocating a yearlong suspension. Behaving in a lewd manner is not rape.

[FY56]

10 hours ago, mjp28 said:

I would love for someone or group to get all of the attorney fees, court costs and fees NFL penalties, costs, fees and and attorney fees and other  miscellaneous  costs that  ive missed so far.  there and any other hidden fees (I'm sure they're plenty)  and news coverage costs   see what this  whole miserable  mess  has really cost  everyone. 

I don't know about you but I'm completely  sick and tired of this whole miserable mess.    If you agree please let us know about what  YOU    think about this  Deshaun Watson national  travesty.

 

~AND~   are you   ready for some football  ?       Remember that the NFL HOF    Thursday  Night Football  Game   is on iat 8 pm. LAR versus  JAX. just     - 2 -    days with the introduction of this year's inductees shown throughout the game !

Me too.  ❤️ 

 

Yeah well the Cleveland Browns have been a whole miserable mess since they returned.

After this is over, it will be something else.

[gumby73]

16 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

Honestly if he was truly guilty they would have much much more and/or their lawyer stinks.  He seems like a d@mn good ambulance chaser to me 

The NFL, led by investigator Lisa Friel, does its investigative work. In this case, it literally took months and months because of the sheer volume of accusers. From there, once the investigation has concluded, Friel and her team turn over their findings and recommendation for punishment to a third party mediator by the name of Sue L. Robinson, a former U.S. district judge who is jointly appointed by the league and the NFL Players Association under the conduct policy.

ok, See pg.3/4.. of Sue's report with the start of.."Watson allegedly* worked with more than 60.... 

dear lord..215 pages from a former sex crimes prosecutor of the NFL's choice in Lisa Friel .. And the best she could do is find 5 (decides to boot one) & only 3 of 4 holds a business therapist license..

 

Folks.. we have some ambulance chasers, that got their chasing $$, while hurting their own shady business feelings  

Go on Roger/NFL, to only listening to your paid media meatheads.. we'll wait

 

 

[FY56]

19 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

The NFL, led by investigator Lisa Friel, does its investigative work. In this case, it literally took months and months because of the sheer volume of accusers. From there, once the investigation has concluded, Friel and her team turn over their findings and recommendation for punishment to a third party mediator by the name of Sue L. Robinson, a former U.S. district judge who is jointly appointed by the league and the NFL Players Association under the conduct policy.

ok, See pg.3/4.. of Sue's report with the start of.."Watson allegedly* worked with more than 60.... 

dear lord..215 pages from a former sex crimes prosecutor of the NFL's choice in Lisa Friel .. And the best she could do is find 5 (decides to boot one) & only 3 of 4 holds a business therapist license..

 

Folks.. we have some ambulance chasers, that got their chasing $$, while hurting their own shady business feelings  

Go on Roger/NFL, to only listening to your paid media meatheads.. we'll wait

 

 

Yet:

"Mr. Watson is hereby suspended for six (6) regular-season games without pay," she ruled. "Although this is the most significant punishment ever imposed on an NFL player for allegations of non-violent sexual conduct, Mr. Watson's pattern of conduct is more egregious than any before reviewed by the NFL."

She ruled according to the precedent the NFL had set, but it almost seems like the NFL has her blessing should they choose to appeal.

 

[Flugel]

13 hours ago, Orion said:

So, is this the end of day 2?    Of the 3 days that the NFL has to appeal?  

Knowing Roger Godcomplex, he'll wait to the very last minute and appeal Thursday morning.  

[FY56]

12 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan1 said:

Haha, remorseful? Not according to the judge.

Let the lies flow. lol

 

[jrb12711]

10 hours ago, hoorta said:

I'm certainly not ignoring that... And the other sleazy instances...  She never saw a guy beat off before in her life though?  Eventually got way more than $150 bucks to help her get over the shock... High five $$$$$ figures? 

Regarding the Browns Office & coaching staff who signed off on bringing DW into town, they had better be right about his playing ability, or they're all going to be looking for employment elsewhere.  

TBH my friend, making the statement "she never saw a beat off before" is missing the point. It doesn't matter if she has (or hasn't), it's that they clearly did not want a man doing this in their professional work place. I can have sex with 100 people, if I don't want to have sex with a person who forces me to it's still assault.

Regarding the settlements, I just hope you and others bear in mind a settlement for crimes like this make a lot more logical sense than dragging themselves through the context of a trial. These crimes are notoriously (and unfortunately) hard to prove, and settlements serve as a logical conclusion when criminal prosecution won't occur. It isn't, for many, about just the money.

 

12 hours ago, FY56 said:

Although I don't find myself going to that extreme, I don't blame you at all for feeling the way you do.

But how would you feel if Watson was to serve a full year suspension rather than a six game?

Rizzo on KNR played a montage of media taking heads expressing their opinion on the suspension, and one believing Watson deserves a one year suspension stuck out as making a lot of sense....

He said that upon completion of Watsons lengthy one year suspension, fans most conflicted about Watson would come around and be of the mindset that the man has paid his dues ...and that it is now time forgive and forget and get back to playing football, and that's exactly how I would feel.

At this point he still remains a scumbag to a lot of Browns fans.

 

Honestly? Nah, nothing short of this never occurring would make me feel strongly. To say it a bit differently and appropriately, if I could magic wand this I'd much rather have rolled with Baker and rolled the dice on how the season went.

[Axe]

Geez, I just want to see the Browns win a Lombardi in my lifetime.. 🥴

[FY56]

15 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

Honestly? Nah, nothing short of this never occurring would make me feel strongly. To say it a bit differently and appropriately, if I could magic wand this I'd much rather have rolled with Baker and rolled the dice on how the season went.

If you would have preferred to roll the dice with Baker then this will make you feel even worse...sorry!

 

 

[Bob806]

14 hours ago, gumby73 said:

 

while the NFLPA should have never signed anything on letting players, loss games/fines get back into God-dell's 'process' on appeal.

Tick. Tick.tick

This is what I truly don't understand.

I was a union president for 15 years, and was actively involved in contract negotiations. Typically, they are cordial yet intense. I wonder what the union received in return for such strong language favoring management (Goodell) on that clause?

Most contracts I've seen include a disciplinary section, and while this is definitely the case, usually the Independent Arbitraitor (in this case, Sue Robinson) rends the final decision, and appeals can ensue if one side isn't thrilled. How the union agreed to basically give power back to Goodell is astonishing to me.

My hunch is Goodell won't act on it, just to keep the peace with the CBA. Hope I'm right.

[crstphr2]

And if he starts games this year.  Gets suspended next year it SIGNIFICANTLY increases his salary loss.

[ballpeen]

2 hours ago, FY56 said:

Yet:

"Mr. Watson is hereby suspended for six (6) regular-season games without pay," she ruled. "Although this is the most significant punishment ever imposed on an NFL player for allegations of non-violent sexual conduct, Mr. Watson's pattern of conduct is more egregious than any before reviewed by the NFL."

She ruled according to the precedent the NFL had set, but it almost seems like the NFL has her blessing should they choose to appeal.

 

You leave out the part about it being for alleged non-violent sexual conduct.

 

The part you highlight isn't saying this is the most egregious case the NFL has reviewed.

[BrownsFan4Evr]

Question.......if she didn't "want to" how did she end up with semen on her dress and FACE????!!! Must have been pretty close for someone who wasn't consenting!

[Westside Steve]

Slap on the wrist for someone called egregious and predatory. Still this is the judge the NFL hand picked. Whether they appeal or not could the league be any more incompetent?

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan1]

[hoorta]

12 hours ago, gumby73 said:

Can't find this posted.. so

 Here's Sue Robinson's 16 pages of findings..(pg.5)

 https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/08/01/sports/football/deshaun-watson-suspension-decision.html

I'm using my tablet now, the full report is on Cleveland.com I'll post the link later. Read all 16 pages. It's obvious Deshawn was using these sessions with at least "some" sexual intent,  and the "therapists" were warned ahead of time he wanted them to massage certain areas of his body.  

Of note: Ms. Robinson stated what the NFL was alleging was poorly defined. And as I've said before, 6 games is the max penalty for personal conduct policy violations. Sorry Roger, you can't retroactively change that. If him and the NFL try to, it will certainly be challenged in court by the NFLPA.. and the NFL will almost certainly lose. The NFL "might" try to hit Deshawn with a big fine, and the NFLPA "might" be OK with that... We'll find out soon enough. 

 

[Canton Dawg]

“Rubs off” 😂

What a poor choice of words when referring to DW.

[hoorta]

OK... Cleveland.com article + 16 page complete ruling..     

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2022/08/debate-the-deshaun-watson-suspension-but-the-reports-finding-is-clear-he-did-it-doug-lesmerises.html

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22124209-deshaun-watson-suspension-ruling?responsive=1&title=1

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, FY56 said:

If you would have preferred to roll the dice with Baker then this will make you feel even worse...sorry!

 

 

I'm going to pull a Zombo...  And start a thread where guys can discuss a former Browns player to your heart's content...

Will Baker follow a Drew Brees career path, of an Andy Dalton one, where he can win a playoff game or two if everything around him is perfect? Tia has pointed out with his screen shots, if Mayfield wants to be another Drew Brees, there's obvious flaws in his came he needs to correct. 

 

[hoorta]

12 hours ago, FY56 said:

The largest U.S. anti-sexual assault group wants the NFL to appeal the Deshaun Watson ruling (yahoo.com)

Berkowitz, speaking three hours after the ruling, reasoned that a year-long suspension was “the minimum that should have been put into place, given the seriousness of [Watson’s actions].”

“There's no length that will make up for the harm that he's done to these dozens of women,” he said. “But I think at least a year makes a pretty strong statement that this is not gonna be tolerated.”

The six games, on the other hand, “unfortunately mirrors what we experience in the criminal justice system,” Donisha Greene, the director of community engagement at the Cleveland Rape Crisis Center, said in an interview. “It sends a message to the community that those who are in a position of power and celebrity are not held accountable for their actions when they commit violence against others.”

Violence? I don't agree with the reasoning the above two people have for advocating a yearlong suspension. Behaving in a lewd manner is not rape.

Too bad The Gipper isn't around anymore to comment... Robinson had to use the NFL's version of what "violence" is, not the legal version of one. You can read the report of what was considered "violence", I'm not going to repeat it here. However, for it to be "indecent exposure" it has to be in public, but I'm not a lawyer.    Yeah, it wasn't just a "massage" it was thinly veiled prostitution. But how many other NFL players have visited The Chicken Ranch or it's equivalent multiple times in the past?

And this reeks of nth degree hypocrisy Mr. Kraft.. You got off scot free... 

 

[Frenchie]

If I worked at NFL headquarters, I would highly recommend not appealing the decision. A statement reading that the NFL wanted a year is good enough. I know that’s already out there (which I call “tampering” and would be pissed off if I were the Players Union) but the response shows both intent (for more) and respect for both the judge and the CBA. The NFL basically says to critics “we don’t  like the decision either, but that’s what the judge ruled”. The NFL has either this option or open a can of worms ... and we all know their house isn’t clean.

i also think that through both formal and informal channels, all parties agreed to this. We’d be naive to think otherwise. The union already said they’d accept the ruling and sue the NFL if they didn’t. Why would they do that? Also, Deshaun could sue for discrimination claiming that the owners got off without a penalty because they were white. No scenario ends well for the NFL except to accept the ruling. 

I could be wrong ... they could be really stupid. And we know they are - just read Kraft’s quote. How two-faced of him to say that.