The Good, the bad, and the Lucky vs Steelers.

[jiggins7919]

On 9/24/2022 at 3:48 PM, calfoxwc said:

good stuff - that brings to mind a question. Newsome's huge helmet to the small of the back on Wilson -

shouldn't a flag been thrown for spearing/targeting/? IT wasn't though, I just don't know the rule.

Yeah, any forceful contact with the helmet can be called. 

[jiggins7919]

On 9/24/2022 at 8:11 PM, Flugel said:

After JOK and Walker got injured - I thought Phillips, Fields and Takitaki played well for us.

This is a terrific point. I thought we were in deep trouble after those two went down, but our other backers made some plays! Now, I expect JOK to be back, but that's just wishful thinking and not born of anything factual. 

What we really need is Myles and Clowney to both play, but I wouldn't hold your breath. Myles won't be able to MOVE for a week or two. 

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

“Did Baker draft himself #1 overall” - is this a defense of Baker like he didn’t ask for this?  

 

Yes we should.  It’s maddening because we have talent in the secondary and they can play better. 
 

did you expect more from this secondary?

You're missing by a mile.  Again, did Baker draft himself at #1 overall?  I'm not asking for 50 reasons why you hate the guy or even more reasons why I was wrong about him.  You play a lot of Dodge Ball with where to assign blame. Our FO and Owner brought Baker to you  - nobody else.  Not good enough = not good enough.  We went 0-16 to make him the alleged solution with a 1st overall pick right?    Just yes or no here - could we have drafted Josh Allen instead?  That was 1 year after we could have draft Mahomes or Watson with our previous #1 overall.  Let the countless excuses begin....  KC and Buffalo thoroughly researched their guys to be sure it was someone they were prepared/committed to develop. Consequently, they deserve to be elite.

I like our Corners a lot.  I've heard Delpit is talented by he's very injury prone and I'm not sure how smart he is yet.  Tia gave a good reason why Johnson was more effective in LA.  We're gonna need a pass rush to help them out moving forward.  Let's hope we have depth at edge rush. I'm hopeful these guys will pull together.  They gotta prepare like professionals.  Teams with ideal veteran Team Leaders help show younger guys this.

 

[nickers]

9 minutes ago, Flugel said:

You're missing by a mile.  Again, did Baker draft himself at #1 overall?  I'm not asking for 50 reasons why you hate the guy or even more reasons why I was wrong about him.  You play a lot of Dodge Ball with where to assign blame. Our FO and Owner brought Baker to you  - nobody else.  Not good enough = not good enough.  We went 0-16 to make him the alleged solution with a 1st overall pick right?    Just yes or no here - could we have drafted Josh Allen instead?  That was 1 year after we could have draft Mahomes or Watson with our previous #1 overall.  Let the countless excuses begin....  KC and Buffalo thoroughly researched their guys to be sure it was someone they were prepared/committed to develop. Consequently, they deserve to be elite.

I like our Corners a lot.  I've heard Delpit is talented by he's very injury prone and I'm not sure how smart he is yet.  Tia gave a good reason why Johnson was more effective in LA.  We're gonna need a pass rush to help them out moving forward.  Let's hope we have depth at edge rush. I'm hopeful these guys will pull together.  They gotta prepare like professionals.  Teams with ideal veteran Team Leaders help show younger guys this.

 

With Joe Woods running the D... I don't see this becoming a Pass Rushing team anytime soon.... This is more like Bill Arnsparger on steroids prevent D. I'm so sick of everything being "Nickel" "Nickel" "Nickel"

[SdBacker80]

17 minutes ago, nickers said:

With Joe Woods running the D... I don't see this becoming a Pass Rushing team anytime soon.... This is more like Bill Arnsparger on steroids prevent D. I'm so sick of everything being "Nickel" "Nickel" "Nickel"

We will when we get four Pro Bowlers upfront.  I will not hold my breath in the salary cap era for that 

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

You're missing by a mile.  Again, did Baker draft himself at #1 overall?  I'm not asking for 50 reasons why you hate the guy or even more reasons why I was wrong about him.  You play a lot of Dodge Ball with where to assign blame. Our FO and Owner brought Baker to you  - nobody else.  Not good enough = not good enough.  We went 0-16 to make him the alleged solution with a 1st overall pick right?    Just yes or no here - could we have drafted Josh Allen instead?  That was 1 year after we could have draft Mahomes or Watson with our previous #1 overall.  Let the countless excuses begin....  KC and Buffalo thoroughly researched their guys to be sure it was someone they were prepared/committed to develop. Consequently, they deserve to be elite.

I like our Corners a lot.  I've heard Delpit is talented by he's very injury prone and I'm not sure how smart he is yet.  Tia gave a good reason why Johnson was more effective in LA.  We're gonna need a pass rush to help them out moving forward.  Let's hope we have depth at edge rush. I'm hopeful these guys will pull together.  They gotta prepare like professionals.  Teams with ideal veteran Team Leaders help show younger guys this.

 

Not really but We are off on this QB tangent.
 

If we are going to quote Tia ( I’ll  paraphrase and he can wordsmith) Josh Allen wouldn’t have worked out here or at least he had doubts he would have the success he has had in Buffalo with our organization.  I would have passed on him too…he couldn’t put the ball where it needed to be.  Watch some old Josh videos at WYO…lots of credit to the work he’s put in and the odds he overcame.  Most scouts don’t like QBs that can’t put the ball where it needs to be…unless they believe the QBs mechanics can be fixed.  

Not sure on Mahomes…Graham Harrell was arguably the Best Tech QB before Mahomes how did he work out.  I can’t recall the scouting report other than he could throw the ball a mile.  The Browns weren’t the only organization feeling something 

I blame the Browns FO for bringing us Johnny Foosball.

Brandon Weeden.

Brady Quinn.

In Re. Johnson.  So if he’s miscast in this defense or doesn’t have Aaron Donald to cave a pocket so he can do his job - do we blame the front office who may not have asked Joe what type of safety do you need? Do you think it was never discussed with Joe? Maybe Johnson got paid like some free agents and the drive and motivation took a nose dive? Wouldn’t a defensive staff try to put a key piece to this defense in areas where he can flourish? or does he just need a good defensive line and pass rush and he can play safety better?  These are serious questions curious what you and others think. 

 

 

[Flugel]

On 9/26/2022 at 12:26 PM, SdBacker80 said:

We are 2-1 because of our secondary.
 

That’s not to say the weak defensive interior will get taken advantage this week when Atlanta runs zone read plays.

But to date NFL is a bottom line game.  Our overpriced secondary which I expected more from has let this team down.  Pardon my focus here 

We better step up here: London and Pitts are tough matchups.  And we know Joe doesn’t like to bring pressure 
 

 

You did a nice job with that!  Speaking of pressure, both Clowney and Garrett have injuries that will effect/limit their availability.  When healthy, that's 2 former 1st overall picks edge rush talents I'm guessing Joe wants to rely on for the QB pressures so it doesn't mess with the numbers he likes to have at the back end.  You just mentioned giant and talented targets like London and Pitts while Mariota has some mobility to worry about. If the Browns blitz somebody that doesn't get to the QB - they've just made those 2 guys even tougher to defend.  Our guys gotta be communicating from the pre-snap formation on. 

Not to give you the heebee geebees but now that there's an inevitable injury volume on our defense - this is where I want to see what Joe Woods is made of. 

[Flugel]

4 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

Not really but We are off on this QB tangent.
 

If we are going to quote Tia ( I’ll  paraphrase and he can wordsmith) Josh Allen wouldn’t have worked out here or at least he had doubts he would have the success he has had in Buffalo with our organization.  I would have passed on him too…he couldn’t put the ball where it needed to be.  Watch some old Josh videos at WYO…lots of credit to the work he’s put in and the odds he overcame.  Most scouts don’t like QBs that can’t put the ball where it needs to be…unless they believe the QBs mechanics can be fixed.  

 

You weren't here yet; but I didn't want Josh Allen either.  I've mentioned it numerous times. Do you know what you, me and Tia have in common?  None of us are being paid to work in an NFL FO regardless of how passionate and educated we are about the Browns and football.   Buffalo didn't draft the rear view mirror. They looked at flaws they felt they could change to go in tandem with the sum of strengths that intrigued them.  More specifically, they planned on committing to their investment like the Chiefs did with Mahomes, who didn't start as a rookie.   The only time this franchise drafted a QB capable of consistently leading us deep into the playoffs was when they drafted Bernie Kosar in the Supplemental Draft way back in 1985.

[Dutch Oven]

45 minutes ago, Flugel said:

You weren't here yet; but I didn't want Josh Allen either.  I've mentioned it numerous times. Do you know what you, me and Tia have in common?  None of us are being paid to work in an NFL FO regardless of how passionate and educated we are about the Browns and football.   Buffalo didn't draft the rear view mirror. They looked at flaws they felt they could change to go in tandem with the sum of strengths that intrigued them.  More specifically, they planned on committing to their investment like the Chiefs did with Mahomes, who didn't start as a rookie.   The only time this franchise drafted a QB capable of consistently leading us deep into the playoffs was when they drafted Bernie Kosar in the Supplemental Draft way back in 1985.

If Buffalo had the #1 overall pick in that draft, do you think they would have still taken Allen?

I have doubts. 

[Bob806]

11 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

 

did you expect more from this secondary?

Yes, I did/do.

I think with today's NFL, you need an abundance of good CBs, Safeties, and even hybrid-type LBs (JOK, Minkah for example). You just don't see a David Fulcher, Steve Atwater, Ronnie Lott at Safety anymore.

All these 5 wide sets, you need speed. It looks to me the Browns have gone that route....they need better results in coverage. 

Coming off a mini-bye, these communication issues as they call it, should be minimized. The players need to focus.

Like others wrote, the Falcons do possess some threats. A mobile QB, Cordarrelle Patterson, Pitts, London. It's going to pose a challenge.

[Flugel]

9 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

If Buffalo had the #1 overall pick in that draft, do you think they would have still taken Allen?

I have doubts. 

Great question!   I'd hate to think they would have been as dumb as your buddy Flugel.  My QB resume should have me forbidden to project superstar QBs.  

I think someone important there fell in love with the things me and others were saying/thinking "don't let all that arm strength stuff fool you if he couldn't led his previous team to victory over the less competitive DI opponents. His accuracy didn't dazzle anybody at the college level so how is it going to be easier at the much more complex level in the NFL?"   Has Allen's life at QB in the NFL on game day been easier or more difficult than it was at Wyoming?  And why was this made possible?   The team that did the research came up with a plan understanding there may be some growing pains in the 1st year or 2. Baker actually started off better than him as he temporarily set the record for TD passes for a rookie QB despite only 13 starts on a team coming off 0-16 football.  How many different OCs, QB Coaches, and Head Coaches with different offenses did he get in his 1st few years?  I don't think he's as good today as he was as a rookie meaning? Who in our FO/Ownership researched the upside vrs best football in the rear view mirror?  And WHO up top here committed the development plan Buffalo was willing to do for their QB?  Would this franchise have been smart enough to stick with a guy like Troy Aikman or Steve Young given their very humble NFL beginnings if they came along today?  Would our fanbase? 

Then we have Oklahoma QBs (Mayfield and Murray) that constantly threw to wide open guys (with plenty of time to do so) not finding NFL life nearly that easy. And Sam Darnold told people he was watching "The 13 Ghosts" from the pocket.  Dutch, as fans, we don't have to get deep enough in research to protect ourselves from that kind of outcome.  That said, an NFL FO does have to do extensive research.  They need to dig deep if they're going QB.  They can't wait for hindsight 20/20 to tell them Mayfield, Darnold, and Murray already played their best football in college.  

 

[Flugel]

10 hours ago, Bob806 said:

Yes, I did/do.

I think with today's NFL, you need an abundance of good CBs, Safeties, and even hybrid-type LBs (JOK, Minkah for example). You just don't see a David Fulcher, Steve Atwater, Ronnie Lott at Safety anymore.

All these 5 wide sets, you need speed. It looks to me the Browns have gone that route....they need better results in coverage. 

Coming off a mini-bye, these communication issues as they call it, should be minimized. The players need to focus.

Like others wrote, the Falcons do possess some threats. A mobile QB, Cordarrelle Patterson, Pitts, London. It's going to pose a challenge.

Well said Bob!  Yes, you need speed but you can't have guys with hollow-domes back there.  If they're not smart enough to ask their coaches about things they're confused about during the week of preparation or communicate with teammates on game day, I'm not gonna pretend the only problem is Joe Woods.  We won a playoff game with him as our DC on the same day our OC actually called the plays.  The Defense produced multiple turnovers that day while the Browns scored 48 points.

[Bob806]

26 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Well said Bob!  Yes, you need speed but you can't have guys with hollow-domes back there.  If they're not smart enough to ask their coaches about things they're confused about during the week of preparation or communicate with teammates on game day, I'm not gonna pretend the only problem is Joe Woods.  We won a playoff game with him as our DC on the same day our OC actually called the plays.  The Defense produced multiple turnovers that day while the Browns scored 48 points.

Yes & yes.

I'm not a huge Woods guy either, BUT he did make adjustments last year, the year before even with COVID depleted rosters ( like many DCs I suppose).  I think we all broke our TVs after the Chargers game, then they played well the rest of the year in 2021.

I'm confident our NFL staff can patch this up. Probably 7 or 8 out of 10. Woods has been around.

 

[Flugel]

17 hours ago, nickers said:

With Joe Woods running the D... I don't see this becoming a Pass Rushing team anytime soon.... This is more like Bill Arnsparger on steroids prevent D. I'm so sick of everything being "Nickel" "Nickel" "Nickel"

So who are the Superstar Pass Rushers taking advantage of all the attention Myles Garrett is getting Nicks?  Did Clowney play last week?  What Superstars inside is Joe Woods failing to understand here?  Give me a name.  Just 1.  You're bitching just to bitch.

Bill Parcels once said if you're gonna ask me to cook the meal - then you should let me buy the groceries.  If Garrett and Clowney don't play this week, we're pretty much attacking with pawns whether some of you guys want to pretend otherwise or not.  YES, we've invested heavily in the DBs at the back end; and we have 2 great edge rushers when/if healthy.  We also lost 2 starting LBers last week right?  When that happens during the game - the replacements have enough to think about let alone adding a zone blitz coverage adjustment to that.  Buffalo added Von Miller so they don't have worry about zone blitz coverage adjustments. Teams are turning to that because like Bob806 mentioned offenses are already challenging the numbers at the back end with multiple Receivers.   Think of the Lindy Infante mentality (multiple receivers spread) when he knew teams wanted to blitz our cement shoe'd hero Bernie.  "Wanna blitz us?  Welcome to Hell!"   

[SdBacker80]

15 hours ago, Flugel said:

You did a nice job with that!  Speaking of pressure, both Clowney and Garrett have injuries that will effect/limit their availability.  When healthy, that's 2 former 1st overall picks edge rush talents I'm guessing Joe wants to rely on for the QB pressures so it doesn't mess with the numbers he likes to have at the back end.  You just mentioned giant and talented targets like London and Pitts while Mariota has some mobility to worry about. If the Browns blitz somebody that doesn't get to the QB - they've just made those 2 guys even tougher to defend.  Our guys gotta be communicating from the pre-snap formation on. 

Not to give you the heebee geebees but now that there's an inevitable injury volume on our defense - this is where I want to see what Joe Woods is made of. 

On the flipside, you disrupt a happy feet QB like Mariota with pressure. We have a tendency to sit back and drop 7 and give journeyman QBs time to process coverage and look good.

And if your front 4 can’t get to the QB you need to bring an extra guy or two…I don’t see that adjustment enough with this defense. If you are dropping seven or eight I gotta see more contested throws in the secondary.  And my goodness if you are going bend all game you cannot get beat deep like we have.

 

This is a really tough game.  Patterson is great at picking his spots in zone runs.  I mentioned the matchup problems with Pitts and London becomes a huge problem in the redzone.  Drake London was the best WR last year in CFB before he got hurt with a bad QB.  The Falcons had problems protecting slow footed Ryan last year. This year they are running the ball well and Mariota is making just enough plays with his feet and arm.  Going way back…He’s historically been a QB that wilts under pressure. The Falcons are gonna run the ball and scheme up plays for their two big playmakers and then don’t forget they have their undersized slot guy who is dangerous.  This is our toughest game to date. 

 

[SdBacker80]

14 hours ago, Flugel said:

You weren't here yet; but I didn't want Josh Allen either.  I've mentioned it numerous times. Do you know what you, me and Tia have in common?  None of us are being paid to work in an NFL FO regardless of how passionate and educated we are about the Browns and football.   Buffalo didn't draft the rear view mirror. They looked at flaws they felt they could change to go in tandem with the sum of strengths that intrigued them.  More specifically, they planned on committing to their investment like the Chiefs did with Mahomes, who didn't start as a rookie.   The only time this franchise drafted a QB capable of consistently leading us deep into the playoffs was when they drafted Bernie Kosar in the Supplemental Draft way back in 1985.

All true.  I supported the Watson trade based on some of these points you make. We haven’t shown the capability to be patient with a drafted QB nor have we had the foresight to pick them well.  

The price wasn’t too high.

And above everything else you need an elite QB.  Not an average QB with a great line and running game and good supporting cast. 
 

^^^thats what we had and folks are/were okay with .500 football most years here with a playoff appearance every year or so. 

[nickers]

4 hours ago, Flugel said:

So who are the Superstar Pass Rushers taking advantage of all the attention Myles Garrett is getting Nicks?  Did Clowney play last week?  What Superstars inside is Joe Woods failing to understand here?  Give me a name.  Just 1.  You're bitching just to bitch.

Bill Parcels once said if you're gonna ask me to cook the meal - then you should let me buy the groceries.  If Garrett and Clowney don't play this week, we're pretty much attacking with pawns whether some of you guys want to pretend otherwise or not.  YES, we've invested heavily in the DBs at the back end; and we have 2 great edge rushers when/if healthy.  We also lost 2 starting LBers last week right?  When that happens during the game - the replacements have enough to think about let alone adding a zone blitz coverage adjustment to that.  Buffalo added Von Miller so they don't have worry about zone blitz coverage adjustments. Teams are turning to that because like Bob806 mentioned offenses are already challenging the numbers at the back end with multiple Receivers.   Think of the Lindy Infante mentality (multiple receivers spread) when he knew teams wanted to blitz our cement shoe'd hero Bernie.  "Wanna blitz us?  Welcome to Hell!"   

All I'm saying Tom.. Is even with a full cupboard... Joe Woods continues to under utilize the talent available to him...   He's a dud... Although to his credit... He finally started calling more man coverage last week.. So that's a positive... Zone defenses are a great QB's best friend next to blitzes. I get it... Guys are hurt... You are forced into other adjustments... I'm sick and tired of seeing average QB's get away with murder in the 2nd half of games. Someone here said Joe Woods also came here as a secondary Specialist... Since he's been here... Our secondary has played like S H I T!

[Dutch Oven]

10 hours ago, Flugel said:

Great question!   I'd hate to think they would have been as dumb as your buddy Flugel.  My QB resume should have me forbidden to project superstar QBs.  

You and me both. I've had a few good predictions on QBs, but have missed spectacularily on some too. The humorous thing about the infamous 2018 QB Battle Royale of Debate is that I remember talking to my buddy (the guy I went to the Steelers game with last Thursday night) right before the draft and admitting that on the eve of the selection, I had talked myself out of ALL the QBs available. 🤪 Baker was 'meh' to me, a good floor, low ceiling type of guy. Darnold should have gone back to USC for another year. Rosen - my early favorite - didn't seem to even like playing football. Allen had fantastic tools and was built like what a prototypical AFC North QB should be, but couldn't hit water from a row boat and played crap competition. I never even considered Lamar Jackson, and hell, I still might be underestimating him. It seems like he's starting to get comfortable throwing from the pocket, which is a horrifying thing to contemplate as a Browns fan.

Then we have Oklahoma QBs (Mayfield and Murray) that constantly threw to wide open guys (with plenty of time to do so) not finding NFL life nearly that easy. 

Completion percentage in college can be such a misleading stat. Baker, for example, I think (top of my head) completed something like 66% of his college passes, but I would not consider him a particularily accurate NFL QB. You know who completed passes at an even higher percentage in college? 

Brandon Weeden.  

 

 

 

[SdBacker80]

In hindsight Baker had a perfect setup at OKLA too.

Lincoln Riley scheming up wide open WRs that included Mark Andrews, Marquise Brown and CeeDee Lamb against Big12 defenses 

[hoorta]

On 9/27/2022 at 2:25 PM, SdBacker80 said:

We will when we get four Pro Bowlers upfront.  I will not hold my breath in the salary cap era for that 

Let's see what happens Sunday... Clowney on one leg and Garrett playing with one arm are better than 1\2 the DL in the NFL...  

I wasn't going to start a specific thread, but the injury bug is working in the Browns favor the next several weeks... If we can eke one out against the Falcons... The Chargers are a MASH unit, their LT is out for the year, Herbert has bum ribs, and they just put Bosa on IR.  Then we get to face the Patriots with our old pal Hoyer the Destroyer subbing for the out of commission Mac Jones.  

[Flugel]

On 9/28/2022 at 12:39 PM, nickers said:

All I'm saying Tom.. Is even with a full cupboard... Joe Woods continues to under utilize the talent available to him...   He's a dud... Although to his credit... He finally started calling more man coverage last week.. So that's a positive... Zone defenses are a great QB's best friend next to blitzes. I get it... Guys are hurt... You are forced into other adjustments... I'm sick and tired of seeing average QB's get away with murder in the 2nd half of games. Someone here said Joe Woods also came here as a secondary Specialist... Since he's been here... Our secondary has played like S H I T!

Fair enough Nicks.  We'll find out soon enough either way...

[Flugel]

On 9/24/2022 at 8:11 PM, Flugel said:

Nice job with that Jiggs!   

I was reviewing all the ST blunders with someone online and I can't believe I forgot to mention the 12 men on the field. That really speaks volumes about my attention to detail these days.  Man, the blocked punt and another missed extra point?   We didn't spend a draft pick on York for him to be the next Steve Cox (only trusted for long FGs and putting kickoffs out of the end zone).  We drafted York wanting him to be the next Phil Dawson (accurate from everywhere).  I think he'll get that ironed out; but we need that now,,,

After JOK and Walker got injured - I thought Phillips, Fields and Takitaki played well for us.

A potential concern, our defense got gashed against the run in the 1st half.  I'm guessing our next opponent will test this next week.  

All that aside, I'm very happy this team began the week with a very necessary player's only meeting. It translated into a victory on the field for us to enjoy!

Per the bolded line above, this was my concern during and after the Pittsburgh game.  Our next opponent in Atlanta saw the golden opportunity to run on us.  They ran the ball 14 straight plays for 174 yards.  If our FO didn't think DT was an important position, we better hope they do now.  You can't win very many chess matches attacking with pawns.  

[SdBacker80]

8 hours ago, Flugel said:

Per the bolded line above, this was my concern during and after the Pittsburgh game.  Our next opponent in Atlanta saw the golden opportunity to run on us.  They ran the ball 14 straight plays for 174 yards.  If our FO didn't think DT was an important position, we better hope they do now.  You can't win very many chess matches attacking with pawns.  

Let me say, I believe DT is a problem and I was a believer at that point but prior to that Falcons game the secondary nearly lost us a game and then the very next week lost the Jets game.  The FO commitment to that group was huge…You have a couple first round picks back there, a high dollar free agent, a second and third round pick.   The secondary has to be on point this year we have all these other groups playing with built in excuses for instance we are playing a backup QB, a backup a center, we had 4th tackle start two games, we have very little depth at WR…these positions and groups aren’t going to be consistent week to week.  
 

 

 

[Flugel]

54 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Let me say, I believe DT is a problem and I was a believer at that point but prior to that Falcons game the secondary nearly lost us a game and then the very next week lost the Jets game.  The FO commitment to that group was huge…You have a couple first round picks back there, a high dollar free agent, a second and third round pick.   The secondary has to be on point this year we have all these other groups playing with built in excuses for instance we are playing a backup QB, a backup a center, we had 4th tackle start two games, we have very little depth at WR…these positions and groups aren’t going to be consistent week to week.  
 

 

 

The secondary played good against Pittsburgh; but Trubisky helped them a lot.

I get what you're saying about 1st round draft picks in our secondary; but that doesn't guarantee us anything.  Have you see how often they tackle way too high?  Johnson got lit up by Najee Harris.  Last week Delpit was trying to tackle  ball carriers around the shoulder pads.

While this is the era to try to defend the pass - you can't go pedal to the metal with it at the expense of using junior varsity and freshman caliber DTs.  The Falcons exposed Berry's planning or complete lack thereof.  If there's nothing up there physics are going to get all our high round DBs/crash test dummies hurt anyway.  

This desperate situation might want to have us look at James Hudson III as a DT (since he played Defense once upon a time).  

[SdBacker80]

3 hours ago, Flugel said:

The secondary played good against Pittsburgh; but Trubisky helped them a lot.

I get what you're saying about 1st round draft picks in our secondary; but that doesn't guarantee us anything.  Have you see how often they tackle way too high?  Johnson got lit up by Najee Harris.  Last week Delpit was trying to tackle  ball carriers around the shoulder pads.

While this is the era to try to defend the pass - you can't go pedal to the metal with it at the expense of using junior varsity and freshman caliber DTs.  The Falcons exposed Berry's planning or complete lack thereof.  If there's nothing up there physics are going to get all our high round DBs/crash test dummies hurt anyway.  

This desperate situation might want to have us look at James Hudson III as a DT (since he played Defense once upon a time).  

I agree with you 90% of the time.

Hudson back to Dline where he played sparingly at TSUN.  No.  He’s playing great now at Tackle and will hold that spot next season likely as a starter.  I’m not doing it no way.

Regarding the secondary and where I’ve highlighted the talent…All I’m saying…where there is talent in the secondary…it has to perform it can’t be the reason you lose.

[Flugel]

9 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

I agree with you 90% of the time.

Hudson back to Dline where he played sparingly at TSUN.  No.  He’s playing great now at Tackle and will hold that spot next season likely as a starter.  I’m not doing it no way.

Regarding the secondary and where I’ve highlighted the talent…All I’m saying…where there is talent in the secondary…it has to perform it can’t be the reason you lose.

Yeah, I agree with you about the progress Hudson has made at RT.  It's been impressive.  Having said that, my idea for him to get some reps at DT while Conklin is back starting at RT - addresses a desperate situation on the DL for the time being.  I don't even know how good he was at DT - I just know our group is totally unacceptable.  When Belichick used to take his starting OLB Mike Vrable and also bring him in to play TE in various goal line packages (despite already having Gronk as an ideal target/blocker) - it worked extremely well.  1 year they took starting Troy Brown and used him as an extra corner when depth got low near and during the playoffs.  Winners think outside of the box in desperate times - losers just say we're going to worker harder this week square pegging round holes.  IMO, I would at least take a look at him to patch one of the holes threatening to sink this ship.  Not forever, just now...  

There will be a lot of people that will disagree with my thinking and there's nothing wrong with that.  Atlanta watched film of our 1st half vrs Pittsburgh when they gashed us running the ball and took a 14-13 lead into halftime.  It's almost like the advantage Nick Chubb gives us gets Santa Claus'd right back to our opponent with the forfeit our IDL is giving up.  Suh already played for the Detroit Lions for too many years to be interested in joining the AFC version of them IMO.

[tiamat63]

11 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Yeah, I agree with you about the progress Hudson has made at RT.  It's been impressive.  Having said that, my idea for him to get some reps at DT while Conklin is back starting at RT - addresses a desperate situation on the DL for the time being.  I don't even know how good he was at DT - I just know our group is totally unacceptable.  When Belichick used to take his starting OLB Mike Vrable and also bring him in to play TE in various goal line packages (despite already having Gronk as an ideal target/blocker) - it worked extremely well.  1 year they took starting Troy Brown and used him as an extra corner when depth got low near and during the playoffs.  Winners think outside of the box in desperate times - losers just say we're going to worker harder this week square pegging round holes.  IMO, I would at least take a look at him to patch one of the holes threatening to sink this ship.  Not forever, just now...  

There will be a lot of people that will disagree with my thinking and there's nothing wrong with that.  Atlanta watched film of our 1st half vrs Pittsburgh when they gashed us running the ball and took a 14-13 lead into halftime.  It's almost like the advantage Nick Chubb gives us gets Santa Claus'd right back to our opponent with the forfeit our IDL is giving up.  Suh already played for the Detroit Lions for too many years to be interested in joining the AFC version of them IMO.

 

Admirable idea and I like you're out-of-the-box type thinking, but not practical and not going to happen.

Hudson hasn't taken Dline snaps since his freshman year at UC, and even then it was midseason.  

- No DLine technique to have worked on.

- No meetings, no filmroom.

- I doubt he's versed in our defensive calls, checks and verbiage.

- His progression as a RT has given the FO the impression that Conklin could be a money casualty in the near future.

 Taking a guy who hasn't seen reps at a spot in 5 years and tossing him in the mix likely means he wouldn't be anymore effective than Elliot or TT.   And if you weren't good enough to stay on the Dline under Fickel, chances are you aren't going to amount to much in the NFL.    Barring trade or some of our guys taking some of that stuff which created the Hulk, there's no real solution on roster and very few ways you can design things to limit the weakness.   It is what it is, at the moment.

[Canton Dawg]

On 9/28/2022 at 6:56 PM, SdBacker80 said:

In hindsight Baker had a perfect setup at OKLA too.

Lincoln Riley scheming up wide open WRs that included Mark Andrews, Marquise Brown and CeeDee Lamb against Big12 defenses 

Not exactly a good metric to use.

Josh Allen played at the University of Wyoming….not really top level competition in the Mountain West Conference.

[SdBacker80]

Hudson started at TSUN (*ichigan) as a DT. Transferred to UC - there was some drama between Harbaugh and Fick if I recall.  He hasn’t taken a snap at DT in maybe 4/5 years. If he was failing at RT after 2/3 years it could be worth a try- but he was magnificent in the Carolina game against a good pass rusher and held up well again against the Jets.  
 

we could use a good DT, a more instinctive SAM and a better centerfielder.  Can’t be weak in Baseball or football right up the middle.

the Guards/Tribe today are rolling out a very good defensive CF, elite 2nd, very good catcher, and a good SS (this year at least)- makes up for the fact that don’t dig the long ball like other teams.

[Flugel]

4 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 

Admirable idea and I like you're out-of-the-box type thinking, but not practical and not going to happen.

Hudson hasn't taken Dline snaps since his freshman year at UC, and even then it was midseason.  

- No DLine technique to have worked on.

- No meetings, no filmroom.

- I doubt he's versed in our defensive calls, checks and verbiage.

- His progression as a RT has given the FO the impression that Conklin could be a money casualty in the near future.

 Taking a guy who hasn't seen reps at a spot in 5 years and tossing him in the mix likely means he wouldn't be anymore effective than Elliot or TT.   And if you weren't good enough to stay on the Dline under Fickel, chances are you aren't going to amount to much in the NFL.    Barring trade or some of our guys taking some of that stuff which created the Hulk, there's no real solution on roster and very few ways you can design things to limit the weakness.   It is what it is, at the moment.

Okay, you and SdBacker convinced me.  His progress is very impressive at RT.  As for the IDL?  Maybe we can move Myles and/or Clowney around here and there once they're healthy again.