Tale of the Tape - Browns @ Ravens

[tiamat63]

@Flugel

 You wanted a more detailed look at Travis Jones.

 In his first 9 snaps vs the Gmen

- Sack

- A pressure

- Took on a cut block from the Giants LG, loses A gap integrity.  Hustles, at 335lbs, back to his feet and brings down Barkley on a cutback vs a cutback in their direct snap designs.  

- Shut down another direct snap in the redzone from the weakside shade.

 

 Best guess is that he's playing a little over half the Giants snaps, no real work in the nickel and dime sets.   But what work he is getting has been impactful, especially against teams like the Gmen who are trying to establish their identity in the ground game.    And his lateral flow/discipline has really improved the last few weeks.  The play strength is unreal, but more importantly he isn't just a big, strong kid.   He's playing with eyes, pad level and leverage.     Appears the Ravens hit on another big IDL mid-round. 

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

@Flugel

 You wanted a more detailed look at Travis Jones.

 In his first 9 snaps vs the Gmen

- Sack

- A pressure

- Took on a cut block from the Giants LG, loses A gap integrity.  Hustles, at 335lbs, back to his feet and brings down Barkley on a cutback vs a cutback in their direct snap designs.  

- Shut down another direct snap in the redzone from the weakside shade.

 

 Best guess is that he's playing a little over half the Giants snaps, no real work in the nickel and dime sets.   But what work he is getting has been impactful, especially against teams like the Gmen who are trying to establish their identity in the ground game.    And his lateral flow/discipline has really improved the last few weeks.  The play strength is unreal, but more importantly he isn't just a big, strong kid.   He's playing with eyes, pad level and leverage.     Appears the Ravens hit on another big IDL mid-round. 

Thanks!  As predicted, he could have helped us a lot; but or FO doesn't think IDL is important at all.  Lucky for the FO, they know the well exercised pattern in Cleveland.  Only the DC will get blamed for 100% of this while they get blamed for NONE of it.  This is what happens In Cleveland, a significant portion of the fanbase just wants 1 or 2 heads to roll on the coaching staff and we're on our way to perfect football.  

Even when Brian Daboll was here, I remembered reading fans wanted him fired.  They were so certain that simply firing him and all our problems were bye bye.  Here we are again.  I'm not saying I think Woods has been wonderful, but attacking people with pawns up front on defense with our undersized LBers has red carpeted a lot of opponents' running games.  

It always seems to be find the scapegoat and fire him.  The Browns have been perfecting that art since 1999.  And look at the epic progress because of it...

[nickers]

26 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Thanks!  As predicted, he could have helped us a lot; but or FO doesn't think IDL is important at all.  Lucky for the FO, they know the well exercised pattern in Cleveland.  Only the DC will get blamed for 100% of this while they get blamed for NONE of it.  This is what happens In Cleveland, a significant portion of the fanbase just wants 1 or 2 heads to roll on the coaching staff and we're on our way to perfect football.  

Even when Brian Daboll was here, I remembered reading fans wanted him fired.  They were so certain that simply firing him and all our problems were bye bye.  Here we are again.  I'm not saying I think Woods has been wonderful, but attacking people with pawns up front on defense with our undersized LBers has red carpeted a lot of opponents' running games.  

It always seems to be find the scapegoat and fire him.  The Browns have been perfecting that art since 1999.  And look at the epic progress because of it...

Again Tom... He's been here 3 motherfucking years... There's been 0 improvement whatsoever!.. Yes the players bear responsibility... Joe Woods and KS bear the responsibility of motivating and getting them to execute... Neither is happening Tom... It's not like the Browns are devoid of talent... There has been Z E R O improvement or evolution of this defense... When nothing improves... You have no choice but to make a change somewhere... This Defense has the same exact problems it had 3 fucking seasons ago... They can't cover... They can't tackle... And they certainly can't communicate.. And STILL can't stop the run to save it's collective soul!...Now if you at your job had 0 production the last 3 years... Do you honestly believe you deserve to stay? I don't..

[jiggins7919]

On 10/19/2022 at 10:13 PM, Orion said:

It's round 7 and we're tied for last.  ugh.  Again we have a poor matchup for our offense.  The Ravens are good against the run and bad against the pass.  Combine that with the fact that they run the ball quite well and we, well, you know, are terrible at run D.  -  I'm sorry, but I just don't see how we can win this game.  

This is literally the LAST game on earth you wanted to play when your defense is playing so poorly and you need a win. At Baltimore?! I'd be laughing if it wasn't so sad, lol. So you're telling me that Bailey Zappe looked like Joe Montana last week and now we have to face LAMAR JACKSON at home?! 

Yo. 

[Browns149]

8 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

This is literally the LAST game on earth you wanted to play when your defense is playing so poorly and you need a win. At Baltimore?! I'd be laughing if it wasn't so sad, lol. So you're telling me that Bailey Zappe looked like Joe Montana last week and now we have to face LAMAR JACKSON at home?! 

Yo. 

But isn’t LaMar the guy we drafted all these fast, light guys to stop?

[Dutch Oven]

8 minutes ago, Browns149 said:

But isn’t LaMar the guy we drafted all these fast, light guys to stop?

JOK literally was. 

[gumby73]

2 hours ago, nickers said:

Again Tom... He's been here 3 motherfucking years... There's been 0 improvement whatsoever!.. Yes the players bear responsibility... Joe Woods and KS bear the responsibility of motivating and getting them to execute... Neither is happening Tom... It's not like the Browns are devoid of talent... There has been Z E R O improvement or evolution of this defense... When nothing improves... You have no choice but to make a change somewhere... This Defense has the same exact problems it had 3 fucking seasons ago... They can't cover... They can't tackle... And they certainly can't communicate.. And STILL can't stop the run to save it's collective soul!...Now if you at your job had 0 production the last 3 years... Do you honestly believe you deserve to stay? I don't..

Seriously..  can we just slow down on the fire everybody already...

#1.. Stef--- Yes he can pass the play card over to Van Pelt & coach his other bigger issues.. But the 2 on staff interim coaches are Bill Callahan who went 3-8 at the Dead-skins.. OR Mike Phifer ..And no thanks to either of them until actual hiring of HC's line up at end of the season..

#2.. Woods---didn't inquire on T.Bryan/Winovich or see J. Elliott as a swinging door.. That's on Andrew Berry's most cap in league, to than watch names pass across his waiver wire.. I for damn sure can't name a single guy off Wood's position staff to replace him at this time.. My guy, Mike Zimmer just joined Deion Sanders at Jackson St as a defensive advisor.. Who's on your DC list to replace Joe Woods on Monday?

#3.. A. Berry----Who didn't see the cupboard bare at DT1/ No ready ILB behind one.. or a WR3/4 not named hands of stones scwhartz.. nothing but, let's watch our youth grow 👎

End Rant !  Just here to enjoy my team..

Go Browns! start by pointing fingers at yourselves  

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, nickers said:

Again Tom... He's been here 3 motherfucking years... There's been 0 improvement whatsoever!.. Yes the players bear responsibility... Joe Woods and KS bear the responsibility of motivating and getting them to execute... Neither is happening Tom... It's not like the Browns are devoid of talent... There has been Z E R O improvement or evolution of this defense... When nothing improves... You have no choice but to make a change somewhere... This Defense has the same exact problems it had 3 fucking seasons ago... They can't cover... They can't tackle... And they certainly can't communicate.. And STILL can't stop the run to save it's collective soul!...Now if you at your job had 0 production the last 3 years... Do you honestly believe you deserve to stay? I don't..

Do you ever read what people are saying before you protest it like someone who really misses his terrible two's?   

I called out the FO.  How long has Paul Depodesta been here? Andrew Berry?   If games are won and lost in the trenches, I'm glad you think the Browns are very talented on the Interior Defensive Line and at LBer.  The 3 seasons ago you bellyache about - the Browns were 11-5 and they forced turnovers and created short fields for the offense.  That's a STAT believe it or not. In the 1st round of the playoffs, they forced 5 turnovers inclusive of intercepting Roethlisberger 4 times. Name me 1 other Cleveland DC that has beaten Pittsburgh AT PITTSBURGH in the post season especially like that.  Part of the difference?  The FO went after a DT (Sheldon Richardson) that could make an impact and provide some veteran leadership - 2 things the Browns are really lacking on the IDL this year.  This really impacts our undersized LBers. Right after the very short term success, they Money-balled Richardson because he was a DT and cut his ass.   

On top of the collection of pawns playing IDL, it sure seems like the edge rushers Myles Garrett and Jed Clowney haven't been healthy since week 1or 2.  There's the story of our front 7; and I'm sticking to it.  All that impacts the performance in the secondary.  IMO, the FO overrated both Safeties.  

Last year?  The Defense kept this team in way more games than the offense did.  That was part of the reason people had expectations for the defense this year.  Of course I'll agree Woods is disappointing; but that's a symptom of bigger things going wrong.  The Coordinator is playing chess with pawns.  Try playing chess with only pawns and a King and let your opponent use all his pieces.  When the match is over - tell us why you lost.   

You've been telling us since 1999 all we gotta do is fire the coach; and that's all this franchise has done. YES, I think it's time someone in the FO goes bye bye, while you want to keep pretending this defense is loaded with talent for some reason.  When you watch games, ask yourself why someone ran the ball 14 straight times on this defense for 174 yards.  It's because the gimme was too generous to pass up.  The very next week Austin Ekeler averaged 10.8 yards per carry for his season best rushing performance on the same front 7.  I wish the ONLY problem was the DC; but I think the shit starts at the top and trickles down.  I just explained why.  

Last but not least, if they can't tackle - WHO brought them here?  Good organizations don't draft guys their coaching staffs will have to perform miracles on.  Remember how many of us complained about Schwartz?  And why? He's a WR that can't catch whom this FO wasted a 3rd round draft pick on.   Even worse, he can't even return punts or kickoffs with that speed he was drafted to use.  Do I blame the Coordinator or the knucklehead that wasted a draft pick on him?  Are we cutting any of these guys that Berry drafted that aren't worth a crap?   Blame the Coordinators?

[calfoxwc]

as much as stef calls plays that don't make sense -

it isn't the coaches' fault that the Browns didn't keep their draft picks and draft

Jordan Davis at 13, the pick they had. and now? the IDL is the weak link on the defense.

I raved about Davis, he was going to be my first round pick.

until the ..."trade". Then I just gave up the mock draft thing. (I also add, they lost their chance at drafting a qb in next years exellent qb draft).

   "and another thing" - the Browns rely so much on analytics - but analytics doesn't account

for the heart and character of players - whether or not they love the game, WANT TO WIN........

Josh Cribbs lamented on it in the past, John Johnson lamented on it after the last game.

    

[Dutch Oven]

8 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

as much as stef calls plays that don't make sense -

it isn't the coaches' fault that the Browns didn't keep their draft picks and draft

Jordan Davis at 13, the pick they had. and now? the IDL is the weak link on the defense.

I raved about Davis, he was going to be my first round pick.

until the ..."trade". Then I just gave up the mock draft thing. (I also add, they lost their chance at drafting a qb in next years exellent qb draft).

   "and another thing" - the Browns rely so much on analytics - but analytics doesn't account

for the heart and character of players - whether or not they love the game, WANT TO WIN........

Josh Cribbs lamented on it in the past, John Johnson lamented on it after the last game.

    

How's your Carolina Panthers doing? 

[nickers]

34 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Do you ever read what people are saying before you protest it like someone who really misses his terrible two's?   

I called out the FO.  How long has Paul Depodesta been here? Andrew Berry?   If games are won and lost in the trenches, I'm glad you think the Browns are very talented on the Interior Defensive Line and at LBer.  The 3 seasons ago you bellyache about - the Browns were 11-5 and they forced turnovers and created short fields for the offense.  That's a STAT believe it or not. In the 1st round of the playoffs, they forced 5 turnovers inclusive of intercepting Roethlisberger 4 times. Name me 1 other Cleveland DC that has beaten Pittsburgh AT PITTSBURGH in the post season especially like that.  Part of the difference?  The FO went after a DT (Sheldon Richardson) that could make an impact and provide some veteran leadership - 2 things the Browns are really lacking on the IDL this year.  This really impacts our undersized LBers. Right after the very short term success, they Money-balled Richardson because he was a DT and cut his ass.   

On top of the collection of pawns playing IDL, it sure seems like the edge rushers Myles Garrett and Jed Clowney haven't been healthy since week 1or 2.  There's the story of our front 7; and I'm sticking to it.  All that impacts the performance in the secondary.  IMO, the FO overrated both Safeties.  

Last year?  The Defense kept this team in way more games than the offense did.  That was part of the reason people had expectations for the defense this year.  Of course I'll agree Woods is disappointing; but that's a symptom of bigger things going wrong.  The Coordinator is playing chess with pawns.  Try playing chess with only pawns and a King and let your opponent use all his pieces.  When the match is over - tell us why you lost.   

You've been telling us since 1999 all we gotta do is fire the coach; and that's all this franchise has done. YES, I think it's time someone in the FO goes bye bye, while you want to keep pretending this defense is loaded with talent for some reason.  When you watch games, ask yourself why someone ran the ball 14 straight times on this defense for 174 yards.  It's because the gimme was too generous to pass up.  The very next week Austin Ekeler averaged 10.8 yards per carry for his season best rushing performance on the same front 7.  I wish the ONLY problem was the DC; but I think the shit starts at the top and trickles down.  I just explained why.  

Last but not least, if they can't tackle - WHO brought them here?  Good organizations don't draft guys their coaching staffs will have to perform miracles on.  Remember how many of us complained about Schwartz?  And why? He's a WR that can't catch whom this FO wasted a 3rd round draft pick on.   Even worse, he can't even return punts or kickoffs with that speed he was drafted to use.  Do I blame the Coordinator or the knucklehead that wasted a draft pick on him?  Are we cutting any of these guys that Berry drafted that aren't worth a crap?   Blame the Coordinators?

Tom... Bottom line...... They still S U C K!...

[Dutch Oven]

38 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Do you ever read what people are saying before you protest it like someone who really misses his terrible two's?   

I almost spit my pop all over my laptop screen, you silly goose!

And the answer is no. 

[jiggins7919]

Whelp, this game is over. 

[Flugel]

55 minutes ago, nickers said:

Tom... Bottom line...... They still S U C K!...

And you want to keep firing coaches because they still SUCK.  Are you understanding at all what you're protesting. If firing coaches every 2-3 years was all we needed to do - don't you think they should have got 1 right by now?  I mean it is 2022 and we've been at this just fire the coach stuff since 1999...  Do you need 10 more years of rinse and repeat before you finally figure it out?  Have fun with that...

[jiggins7919]

This is absolutely hilarious. LMFAO 

[nickers]

15 minutes ago, Flugel said:

And you want to keep firing coaches because they still SUCK.  Are you understanding at all what you're protesting. If firing coaches every 2-3 years was all we needed to do - don't you think they should have got 1 right by now?  I mean it is 2022 and we've been at this just fire the coach stuff since 1999...  Do you need 10 more years of rinse and repeat before you finally figure it out?  Have fun with that...

Keep slingin shit till it sticks... What these assholes are doing isn't working Tom... But keep emplying them... I mean its 2 and a half years in and they still blow... But lets stick with'em LOL

[TypicalBrowns50]

WE SUCK

[nickers]

Just now, TypicalBrowns50 said:

WE SUCK

Poorly coached...

[TypicalBrowns50]

What a sad team. Coaching sucks

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, nickers said:

Keep slingin shit till it sticks... What these assholes are doing isn't working Tom... But keep emplying them... I mean its 2 and a half years in and they still blow... But lets stick with'em LOL

I share your frustration.  Now I'll tell you where we differ.

You're trusting that THIS ORGANIZATION can hire an upgrade after they fire another coach.  I'm not trusting that THIS ORGANIZATION can hire an upgrade after they fire another coach - or it would have happened by now since 1999.  It's 2022 and Owner is still rinsing and repeating the same mistakes; so NO I don't trust their hiring criteria any more...  

 

[syd]

3 hours ago, Flugel said:

And you want to keep firing coaches because they still SUCK.  Are you understanding at all what you're protesting. If firing coaches every 2-3 years was all we needed to do - don't you think they should have got 1 right by now?  I mean it is 2022 and we've been at this just fire the coach stuff since 1999...  Do you need 10 more years of rinse and repeat before you finally figure it out?  Have fun with that...

he will never figure it out he is just a pathetic self hating person

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, syd said:

he will never figure it out he is just a pathetic self hating person

Thanks Syd! We're all just frustrated.  Believe it or not, Nickers used to be positive until his favorite team started beating the tar out of him a lot more consistently on Sundays.  

Right now we look like a team with a backup QB that has no margin of error; and people aren't wrong to be frustrated with the defense. That said, I thought they played hard today; and I'm usually really critical of them.  I GET the frustration with Woods; but some people think he's the only problem (and firing him means winning is easy just like it was supposed to be with any other QB beside Baker).  After throwing record setting 27 TD passes as a rookie with only 13 starts, it ain't like he got better. 2 Head Coaches and and Interim Head Coach got fired before Stefanski dragged his ass to the playoffs with lesser stats.  Having said that, 26 TD passes to just 8 INTs didn't didn't keep this team from making the playoffs and winning 1 post season game scoring 48 points.  This was as recently as January of 2021.  The next week, we were an official pretending not to see a KC Chief defender leading with the crown of his helmet to the head of Higgins who fumbled the game winning TD through the end zone for a touchback.

I'd like our FO from Harvard (both Berry and Depodesta) to start making better choices on their defensive personnel.  Until I see that, it doesn't matter who the DC is.  If people don't agree with me that's fine.  

 

[syd]

3 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Thanks Syd! We're all just frustrated.  Believe it or not, Nickers used to be positive until his favorite team started beating the tar out of him a lot more consistently on Sundays.  

Right now we look like a team with a backup QB that has no margin of error; and people aren't wrong to be frustrated with the defense. That said, I thought they played hard today; and I'm usually really critical of them.  I GET the frustration with Woods; but some people think he's the only problem (and firing him means winning is easy just like it was supposed to be with any other QB beside Baker).  After throwing record setting 27 TD passes as a rookie with only 13 starts, it ain't like he got better. 2 Head Coaches and and Interim Head Coach got fired before Stefanski dragged his ass to the playoffs with lesser stats.  Having said that, 26 TD passes to just 8 INTs didn't didn't keep this team from making the playoffs and winning 1 post season game scoring 48 points.  This was as recently as January of 2021.  The next week, we were an official pretending not to see a KC Chief defender leading with the crown of his helmet to the head of Higgins who fumbled the game winning TD through the end zone for a touchback.

I'd like our FO from Harvard (both Berry and Depodesta) to start making better choices on their defensive personnel.  Until I see that, it doesn't matter who the DC is.  If people don't agree with me that's fine.  

 

but seriously chubb only 16 carries the ravens 44  we held jackson in check today and was yet another game we should have won 

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

On 10/21/2022 at 9:46 AM, tiamat63 said:

 Indirectly,  I make money from my Browns analysis via gambling.  I've literally paid my rent this month just off the last 2 CLE games and 2 props from last nights Cardinals win alone. I'm on pace to beat last years margin by 32%. 

 Directly, per 3 very encouraging and seperate email conversations, two that found me referencing and linking my work posted right on this very board;  The days of not making direct money off my analysis might be coming to a close before the 2022 season is over. 

 You'll notice the time I spent in my observations thread doing breakdowns for this board every other day has dried up.  That time, knowledge and effort is being spent on this new pursuit.   And I look forward to sharing it with you guys when it's ready to go.

Tiamat, I admire your passion and insight, but you don't have to defend yourself. Not to my pal Nick, or anyone else.

However, one suggestion, constructively intended; if we have to tell someone of our stature, then we really don't have stature. 

We only have stature when others say so.

Carry on.

Ps - I find that my football bets have equal failure stats whether I do an analysis, or bet the game based on which direction my schlong is pointing.

[Unsympathetic]

One of Stef's big things has been loyalty. However, his loyalty to Woods now affects perception of him ... because Woods is a smoking crater of incompetence, and if Stef defends him then it's on Stef to not see that the trigger needs to be pulled.

It's certainly not "only" FO -- because in no way does FO ever make decisions in a vacuum -- but anyone in leadership who doesn't see that their lack of talent&$$ into DI affects the entirety of the D much more than they had originally planned does need to go.

Alex Wright // Travis Jones

Some positivity in the post: Martin Emerson - it's higher than you thought it would be 

[syd]

7 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

One of Stef's big things has been loyalty. However, his loyalty to Woods now affects perception of him ... because Woods is a smoking crater of incompetence, and if Stef defends him then it's on Stef to not see that the trigger needs to be pulled

what were how ? did you come up with that ? honestly today are D held jackson in check it is yet again play calling on offense which should have been turned over to van pelt 

[nickers]

1 hour ago, syd said:

he will never figure it out he is just a pathetic self hating person

Selh hating?... O' contrare!.. Keep drinking goofy... What I hate are these asshole , Idiot coaches we keep hiring ...

[Flugel]

25 minutes ago, nickers said:

Selh hating?... O' contrare!.. Keep drinking goofy... What I hate are these asshole , Idiot coaches we keep hiring ...

That last thing I bolded above says you agree with me.  "We keep hiring" is exactly what concerns me.  The people doing the hiring are the ones failing so to get excited about them firing their previous bad choice so they can hurry up and hire the same thing means they never have to be accountable.  They want us ALL thinking the only thing wrong with team today is the DC way too close to them wanting us to think the winning starts as soon as we get rid of Baker.  This owner just doesn't suck - he swallows!  I'm going to hold him accountable.  That doesn't mean Woods isn't a concern - I'm just sick of this owner cashing in on the shared revenue of the TV Contracts.

There's no way a smart guy liker Sean Payton would ever want throw away all that he did for New Orleans for a guy like Halsam.  This is where we're at.

[Dutch Oven]

3 minutes ago, Flugel said:

.There's no way a smart guy liker Sean Payton would ever want throw away all that he did for New Orleans for a guy like Halsam.  This is where we're at.

I'll go on record now that Payton is the next head coach of the Los Angeles Chargers. 

[Orion]

Everyone is all upset that we lost.  

What did I say in the very first post in this thread?  I said I didn't see a way that we could win this game.  We're actually lucky that we were able to come back from 10 points down to make it competitive.