It’s Flacco Time

[Korsou Dawg]

19 hours ago, bbedward said:

I know there’s a DTR vs Flacco debate bound to ramp up this week, it’ll be Flacco.

As @Dutch Oven also indicated. There should not even be a discussion.

I also think it is what the players want. Look at the reaction after that first drive. He is more than just accepted. The team loves to have him on board! 

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, Korsou Dawg said:

As @Dutch Oven also indicated. There should not even be a discussion.

I also think it is what the players want. Look at the reaction after that first drive. He is more than just accepted. The team loves to have him on board! 

Trying to make the playoffs is not a good time to try and develop a 5th round QB.

Unless Flacco came out from here out and absolutely stunk up the joint, or got injured, Stefanski IMO would lose the locker room if he started DTR over Flacco at this point. 

[Korsou Dawg]

If he comes out the season in one piece, it is time to seriously consider him as QB2 for next season too! Developing a 5th rounder sounds like something that belongs on the practice squad, and PJ Walker doesn't belong anywhere near the NFL unfortunately.   

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

Trying to make the playoffs is not a good time to try and develop a 5th round QB.

Unless Flacco came out from here out and absolutely stunk up the joint, or got injured, Stefanski IMO would lose the locker room if he started DTR over Flacco at this point. 

Ya think?  Flacco looks like he'll be just fine from here on out.  Can we say the same about some of our Receivers or the sum of them?  More on that in a second.

I'm not one to waste a lot of time bellyaching about bad calls/no calls; but I found it interesting we lost Cooper to a flag-free concussion. His head was down near the ground in that collision which is about as defenseless as it gets - but I suppose one could argue back it was more incidental than dirty in between 2 defenders.  

Missing in all our concern about the QB is what reliable receivers will Flacco have to throw to if/when we don't have Cooper?  Looks like he had some chemistry developing with the Cedric Tillman (who has a rookie learning curve to contend with now that he's getting more action).  Njoku was a little more focused this week except for the play he was out of bounds.  Elijah Moore frustrates me - maybe if I start sniffing glue I'll feel better about him. Bell caught both of his targets and 1 got us a 1st down. I'd LIKE to see Watkins get more of a chance.  I'd also like to see knuckleheads with multiple drops from lack of focus getting replaced instead of reinforced/enabled by keeping them out there.

On the other side of the ball, the matchup dynamics in the secondary without Ward, Mitchell and McLeod - is a cliff dive from what we had when they were healthy.  That said, the Rams pass protection also played a big part in that.  I know McLeod is done for the year; but hopefully we'll one of both of the other guys back before it's too late. This is a new week; and the Browns play a team on a short week that might be without their QB.  But is IS the Browns so that QB will probably be as good as new by Sunday.

[Flugel]

9 minutes ago, Korsou Dawg said:

If he comes out the season in one piece, it is time to seriously consider him as QB2 for next season too! Developing a 5th rounder sounds like something that belongs on the practice squad, and PJ Walker doesn't belong anywhere near the NFL unfortunately.   

Agreed!  And at this point, they can stop worrying about another team wanting to sign him off our practice squad.  

[bbedward]

42 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Ya think?  Flacco looks like he'll be just fine from here on out.  Can we say the same about some of our Receivers or the sum of them?  More on that in a second.

I'm not one to waste a lot of time bellyaching about bad calls/no calls; but I found it interesting we lost Cooper to a flag-free concussion. His head was down near the ground in that collision which is about as defenseless as it gets - but I suppose one could argue back it was more incidental than dirty in between 2 defenders.  

Missing in all our concern about the QB is what reliable receivers will Flacco have to throw to if/when we don't have Cooper?  Looks like he had some chemistry developing with the Cedric Tillman (who has a rookie learning curve to contend with now that he's getting more action).  Njoku was a little more focused this week except for the play he was out of bounds.  Elijah Moore frustrates me - maybe if I start sniffing glue I'll feel better about him. Bell caught both of his targets and 1 got us a 1st down. I'd LIKE to see Watkins get more of a chance.  I'd also like to see knuckleheads with multiple drops from lack of focus getting replaced instead of reinforced/enabled by keeping them out there.

On the other side of the ball, the matchup dynamics in the secondary without Ward, Mitchell and McLeod - is a cliff dive from what we had when they were healthy.  That said, the Rams pass protection also played a big part in that.  I know McLeod is done for the year; but hopefully we'll one of both of the other guys back before it's too late. This is a new week; and the Browns play a team on a short week that might be without their QB.  But is IS the Browns so that QB will probably be as good as new by Sunday.

I think the Cooper hit was clean, bad luck.

The receiver room is pretty weak, but the situation isn't extremely dire - we still have some guys we can get the ball to. I'm surprised Bell seems to be at the bottom of the depth chart, he seems to get open and have reliable hands. Flacco showed he can spread the ball around and find some targets, they just gotta catch the ball.

For defense, I think people are over-rating McLeod. Some of those huge touchdown plays we gave up were solely because he was out of position (like in the game Thornhill missed). In general, our safeties have been completely lost when we play zone.

Looks like it's gonna be a rainy day in Cleveland on Sunday, so we may not miss cooper all that much anyway if he doesn't clear protocol. In the cold and windy Cleveland rain, I think Flacco will be able to manage the game well though.

 

edit:

 

We also have Goodwin, who should be back this week? Hopefully

[Westside Steve]

7 hours ago, Korsou Dawg said:

As @Dutch Oven also indicated. There should not even be a discussion.

I also think it is what the players want. Look at the reaction after that first drive. He is more than just accepted. The team loves to have him on board! 

Well unless the reports are incorrect it doesn't matter now. I thought it was probably the best quarterback performance of the season but you can't win without at least a few more of your key pieces. One of them being Myles Garrett.

As far as DTR versus Flaco I guess we're officially rebuilding.🤔

WSS

[bbedward]

9 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Well unless the reports are incorrect it doesn't matter now. I thought it was probably the best quarterback performance of the season but you can't win without at least a few more of your key pieces. One of them being Myles Garrett.

As far as DTR versus Flaco I guess we're officially rebuilding.🤔

WSS

The reports are not incorrect but they are misleading. Flacco was on practice squad and players automatically revert back to the practice squad after a game when called up. Just a rule thing, browns didn’t send him back down - he’ll be called up again or given a full time roster spot.

[Flugel]

3 hours ago, bbedward said:

I think the Cooper hit was clean, bad luck.

The receiver room is pretty weak, but the situation isn't extremely dire - we still have some guys we can get the ball to. I'm surprised Bell seems to be at the bottom of the depth chart, he seems to get open and have reliable hands. Flacco showed he can spread the ball around and find some targets, they just gotta catch the ball.

For defense, I think people are over-rating McLeod. Some of those huge touchdown plays we gave up were solely because he was out of position (like in the game Thornhill missed). In general, our safeties have been completely lost when we play zone.

Looks like it's gonna be a rainy day in Cleveland on Sunday, so we may not miss cooper all that much anyway if he doesn't clear protocol. In the cold and windy Cleveland rain, I think Flacco will be able to manage the game well though.

 

edit:

 

We also have Goodwin, who should be back this week? Hopefully

I appreciate you clarifying where you're coming from about McLeod. That said, we're gonna agree to disagree about overrating him.  Here's why - McLeod was brought here as experienced depth so I don't think me and others had super high expectations for the 11 year vet beyond knowledge, solid tackling and good communication skills/leadership qualities the Browns lacked at the back end in 2022.  Can he can get beat at his age?  Absolutely!  Having said that, the reason he's here is because his former and current Defensive Coach Schwartz wanted him here. I'm certain he was well aware of what he's good and bad at.  Aside from that, when we blitz a defensive back - he's usually not going to be the guy at the back end who is out of position. IMO, he's also one of our better open field tacklers.  @tiamat63 probably has some great overhead shots of where breakdowns have occurred back when McLeod was still active during the 1st 10 games. I'm gonna predict he finds more problems you identified with Delpit than McLeod. I hate saying that because I think Delpit's improved in some areas; but I still think our opponents identify him as most vulnerable in the secondary. I'm not always right though so it's worth a look if Tia's got the time.

Fans/people don't always blame the right guy when a breakdown occurs.  For example, I've seen Teller blamed for a missed block because the guy that lined up across from him made a TFL when Teller was trapping to the other side of Center on a counter.  In actuality, the guy who should have made the block (in the area Teller vacated) but never got there was Ethan Pocic.  

[bbedward]

1 minute ago, Flugel said:

I appreciate you clarifying where you're coming from about McLeod. That said, we're gonna agree to disagree about overrating him.  Here's why - McLeod was brought here as experienced depth so I don't think me and others had super high expectations for the 11 year vet beyond knowledge, solid tackling and good communication skills/leadership qualities the Browns lacked at the back end in 2022.  Can he can get beat at his age?  Absolutely!  Having said that, the reason he's here is because his former and current Defensive Coach Schwartz wanted him here. I'm certain he was well aware of what he's good and bad at.  Aside from that, when we blitz a defensive back - he's usually not going to be the guy at the back end who is out of position. IMO, he's also one of our better open field tacklers.  @tiamat63 probably has some great overhead shots of where breakdowns have occurred back when McLeod was still active during the 1st 10 games. I'm gonna predict he finds more problems you identified with Delpit than McLeod. I hate saying that because I think Delpit's improved in some areas; but I still think our opponents identify him as most vulnerable in the secondary. I'm not always right though so it's worth a look if Tia's got the time.

Fans/people don't always blame the right guy when a breakdown occurs.  For example, I've seen Teller blamed for a missed block because the guy that lined up across from him made a TFL when Teller was trapping to the other side of Center on a counter.  In actuality, the guy who should have made the block (in the area Teller vacated) but never got there was Ethan Pocic.  

Yea I get that he’s not supposed to be a star, we miss the depth I just don’t think it’s game changing depth.

However, right on about Delpit - and Thornhill for that matter. Delpit got burned out of position at least a couple times (including Steelers TD in first matchup).

Our safeties in general have really struggled for some reason, perhaps beneficiaries of a top pass rush and solid corner play in some games to mask the issues a bit.

[Westside Steve]

4 hours ago, bbedward said:

The reports are not incorrect but they are misleading. Flacco was on practice squad and players automatically revert back to the practice squad after a game when called up. Just a rule thing, browns didn’t send him back down - he’ll be called up again or given a full time roster spot.

Wknr were saying it was just some sort of  roster mumbo jumbo. Hopefully the Jets don't want him too badly.

WSS 

 

[bbedward]

26 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Wknr were saying it was just some sort of  roster mumbo jumbo. Hopefully the Jets don't want him too badly.

WSS 

 

He’s secure, it’s basically a tactic they use so they can be more flexible with their roster spots. After 3 times being called up they remain on the active roster by rule. Flacco ain’t leaving the browns especially for the dumpster fire the jets are

Same happened to PJ Walker

[Flugel]

21 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Wknr were saying it was just some sort of  roster mumbo jumbo. Hopefully the Jets don't want him too badly.

WSS 

 

Whoa!   Slow down there Steve. This team already has me on half of the pharmacy at CVS

[jiggins7919]

I feel pretty awful for Flacco. He made one just awful decision and it effectively ended the game. Obviously I'm playing hindsight games here, but down 1 with about 6.5 minutes to go, I would have really like the clock to get moving on a run. Even a Hunt run for 2-3 yards, just something to get the clock rolling. 

Regardless, I can't envision a scenario where Flacco doesn't start. We were smoother in the passing game than I've seen in a while. Just wish we had a better RB and WR, but hopefully we'll be ok. Let's ride. 

[bbedward]

1 minute ago, jiggins7919 said:

I feel pretty awful for Flacco. He made one just awful decision and it effectively ended the game. Obviously I'm playing hindsight games here, but down 1 with about 6.5 minutes to go, I would have really like the clock to get moving on a run. Even a Hunt run for 2-3 yards, just something to get the clock rolling. 

Regardless, I can't envision a scenario where Flacco doesn't start. We were smoother in the passing game than I've seen in a while. Just wish we had a better RB and WR, but hopefully we'll be ok. Let's ride. 

There’s a lot that went wrong, usually teams can overcome 1 bad turnover. I think that throw was probably actually a result of his rust, missing the safety that was sitting deep, and just making the decision way too late.

The defensive mistakes were many, which had a much bigger impact on the overall game.

Going for it on the 4th and 5 could also be considered questionable, punting was probably the more reasonable decision.

It’s just one of many contributing factors to the loss.

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, bbedward said:

He’s secure, it’s basically a tactic they use so they can be more flexible with their roster spots. After 3 times being called up they remain on the active roster by rule. Flacco ain’t leaving the browns especially for the dumpster fire the jets are

Same happened to PJ Walker

Yeah, I wonder if a team did try to claim Flacco off the practice squad the Browns could say "not so fast", and just promote him to the active roster.  

don't remember the specifics but in the last week or two a team did claim a QB off another team's practice squad.  

EDIT: Ran across it in the NFL transactions report.   

Jets: QB Brett Rypien was signed off of the Seahawks' practice squad

[bbedward]

2 hours ago, hoorta said:

Yeah, I wonder if a team did try to claim Flacco off the practice squad the Browns could say "not so fast", and just promote him to the active roster.  

don't remember the specifics but in the last week or two a team did claim a QB off another team's practice squad.  

EDIT: Ran across it in the NFL transactions report.   

Jets: QB Brett Rypien was signed off of the Seahawks' practice squad

Practice squad guys still get a choice in the deal, a guy like Flacco is a special case (vs the young guys who just want to make a roster) and it’s just roster gymnastics for the browns (they are probably wanting to send Walker back down for the roster spot when DTR is cleared?). I’m assuming Berea made it clear to Flacco that he’s their guy the rest of the way (unless they’re stupid). He’s on a playoff team (as it stands today) with a light schedule - for a guy like Flacco who already made more money than god he’s probably as happy as he can be.

Flacco looked like he did 10 years ago, he’s the guy. The bad pick wasn’t a sign of age or physical inability just a bad decision as it happens to the best of em.

[tiamat63]

16 hours ago, Flugel said:

I .  Aside from that, when we blitz a defensive back - he's usually not going to be the guy at the back end who is out of position. IMO, he's also one of our better open field tacklers.  @tiamat63 probably has some great overhead shots of where breakdowns have occurred back when McLeod was still active during the 1st 10 games. I'm gonna predict he finds more problems you identified with Delpit than McLeod. I hate saying that because I think Delpit's improved in some areas; but I still think our opponents identify him as most vulnerable in the secondary. I'm not always right though so it's worth a look if Tia's got the time.

 

 

Working on a few things, I'll post one here and the rest in my film thread when I get the chance. 

Sunday underscored why we struggle to play 2 high.  A couple early busts that the Rams didn't connect on early, which you can't see from broadcast view, setup the bigger shots later.    Schwartz also tried some things we really haven't done much of this year - zone blitz being the biggest.  

 I think because he loves sending pressure this season to mask some issues on the backend.  But the way the Rams structure their motions, there were misscommunctions on the first couple Rams drives in man coverage and pass offs/replacement.  One we were fortunate didn't end up with 6 to Kupp.  But those things were filed away for later by the Rams coaches and they hit in a big way.   

 The zone looks would make sense to help fix those, but we ended up getting 6 to Nakua on a middle field read against an inverted cover 2.     Just a bad day in general from the DBs and LBs. The latter have been the weakest unit on the team since the IDL was addressed. 

 

Edit:  re: Delpit and Mcloud - MC has a bit more discipline on the backend. But he lacks ideal physical abilities to be top tier at the position.  He's rarely beat because of his eyes and mind.  Delpit is the opposite.  Great physical gifts, still gets his eyes and mind lost at times.  One of the trends, when we go 2 high, is to play him almost exclusively to the boundary.  Coaches are trying to give him as little field to cover as possible because of his struggles. 

[Flugel]

15 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

 

Working on a few things, I'll post one here and the rest in my film thread when I get the chance. 

Sunday underscored why we struggle to play 2 high.  A couple early busts that the Rams didn't connect on early, which you can't see from broadcast view, setup the bigger shots later.    Schwartz also tried some things we really haven't done much of this year - zone blitz being the biggest.  

 I think because he loves sending pressure this season to mask some issues on the backend.  But the way the Rams structure their motions, there were misscommunctions on the first couple Rams drives in man coverage and pass offs/replacement.  One we were fortunate didn't end up with 6 to Kupp.  But those things were filed away for later by the Rams coaches and they hit in a big way.   

 The zone looks would make sense to help fix those, but we ended up getting 6 to Nakua on a middle field read against an inverted cover 2.     Just a bad day in general from the DBs and LBs. The latter have been the weakest unit on the team since the IDL was addressed. 

Thanks T - no hurry!   Yeah, definite concerns you touched on in bold above especially since the upgrade to the IDL is supposed to keep blockers off the backers. Surprisingly, the LBer Corps is Philly's weakest link as well so they added Shaquille Leonard this week. I bring that up because they added two 1st round draft picks to their IDL in the last 2 years.  They also use Hassan Reddick as their Left Edge Rusher similar to the role we've carved out for Za'Darius Smith without a lot of Walk-off coverage responsibility.  Without seeing any of their rematch with Philly - I'll guarantee SF exploited the crap out of that this time around.

This won't be popular; but (aside from Takitaki) 2 others guys I think we need more from most recently are JOK and Za'Darius Smith.  They haven't been horrible; but they weren't brought here to be average.  When you see a LBer trying to hustle into position late in coverage - that frequently gets accompanied with an arm tackle/missed tackle on the RB/Slot/TE in the flats or hook zones.  These tend to turn into 20-30 yard plays on us.  Players have to prepare and focus better on their upcoming matchups during the week. Know WTF you've seen on film in preparation and feel free to identify your keys in film prep while keeping awareness of down and distance.  The Browns haven't looked focused on defense the last 2 weeks. For example, Alex Wright lining up offsides 2 plays in a row in Denver.  Is that a guy with his head in the game?  I have a lot of confidence in Schwartz and I think he can get them back on track even with the injuries they're working around. 

[nickers]

17 hours ago, Flugel said:

Whoa!   Slow down there Steve. This team already has me on half of the pharmacy at CVS

switch to Drug Mart... Better value all the way around... and you can get pretty cool stuff with the points..

[Flugel]

3 hours ago, nickers said:

switch to Drug Mart... Better value all the way around... and you can get pretty cool stuff with the points..

Thanks Nicks! 

[Orion]

I'm surprised somebody like the Steelers didn't sign Flacco off of our PS.  I mean, that would screw us pretty well.  

[bbedward]

8 minutes ago, Orion said:

I'm surprised somebody like the Steelers didn't sign Flacco off of our PS.  I mean, that would screw us pretty well.  

Flacco ain’t leaving the browns PS, they just don’t wanna cut anyone to make room for him yet so they’re using the rules to their advantage. Steelers are committed to trying to make Pickett work too, thankfully for us. Even with picketts injury they signed a garbage QB3 and are rolling with Mitch 

[syd]

joe flacco's highlights 

[bbedward]

15 minutes ago, syd said:

joe flacco's highlights 

Give that man a pocket for 3 seconds and he’ll make any throw.

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

I'm surprised somebody like the Steelers didn't sign Flacco off of our PS.  I mean, that would screw us pretty well.  

Not only that - but he would easily be the best QB they have.

[syd]

2 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Not only that - but he would easily be the best QB they have.

really ?

[Neo]

On 12/4/2023 at 9:37 AM, bbedward said:

I know there’s a DTR vs Flacco debate bound to ramp up this week,

 DTR is a rookie with a 2-1 record on a team where almost all of the premier players are on IR or banged up in some form. I don't even get where this asinine shit that DTR isn't even a servicable QB comes from. He's already doing better than any Cleveland rookie QB that has strolled through here in the past. Imagine the pressure of taking over a team that has a winning record and the disasterous outing he had in his first start. I think he handles the pressure well and actually wants to improve and do good. Flacco is a wiley old veteran with a Super Bowl ring and invaluable experience at the twilight of his career. I just want them to put whatever guy who gives us the best chance on the field. Seriously, the thought that DTR couldn't win us a couple of more games is just utterly ridiculous.

 

[Flugel]

15 minutes ago, syd said:

really ?

Is this a trick question?  Yeah - unless Pickett and Trubisky are just kidding every time their fans are booing the Hell out of them.  Flacco has a Super Bowl W and a huge raise because of it (unlike Dilfer had there). As recently as last year, he threw 4 TD passes on our secondary at full strength (at least physically) and he threw for over 300 yards doing so.  You saw our 1st drive last Sunday and that was a rusty version of Flacco.  Pittsburgh doesn't have anything close at QB.  Arizona just clobbered them.

[Flugel]

1 minute ago, Neo said:

 DTR is a rookie with a 2-1 record on a team where almost all of the premier players are on IR or banged up in some form. I don't even get where this asinine shit that DTR isn't even a servicable QB comes from. He's already doing better than any Cleveland rookie QB that has strolled through here in the past. Imagine the pressure of taking over a team that has a winning record and the disasterous outing he had in his first start. I think he handles the pressure well and actually wants to improve and do good. Flacco is a wiley old veteran with a Super Bowl ring and invaluable experience at the twilight of his career. I just want them to put whatever guy who gives us the best chance on the field. Seriously, the thought that DTR couldn't win us a couple of more games is just utterly ridiculous.

 

DTR will be fine Neo!  I'm glad he got experience this season.  Right now, it would be nice for him to learn from a vet like Flacco.  This is going to be an invaluable experience for DTR this year both on and off the bench.