Take Tim Couch out and put in Derek Anderson

[hoorta]

NO NO NO NO! It doesn't matter how DA succeeded the point is that he has. And the fact remains Brady hasn't. He also hasn't improved even one percent on any part of his game in 3 YEARS........He has peaked.

 

Quinn's lack of arm strength is REAL and it causes him to NOT make throws that he should be making. And it makes him less accurate. If the ball doesn't get there quick enough, it will be high, low, or behind. He rarely ever throws to a guy who isn't standing still or at the most a slow trot because he CANNOT get it there and he knows it. In his mind, 25 incompletes and 15 sacks is better than one interception. WRONG WRONG WRONG. Take a chance with your lousy arm, learn to play effectively with it, or call your family doctor and take yourself out, again!

 

With DA. He is still a young QB and has NEVER been coached up to be "the guy". Every year, every day, every throw, every second he has been here he has been in a QB competition. He is still raw because of this. And it is his 3rd system in 4 years! Taking just those two things into consideration, it's quite an accomplishment just to be in the league right now let alone have a 29 TD season! And, 2008 he had ZERO targets to go to and was still asked to throw 30-40 times a game. Assinine, just assinine.

 

20 teams and 2 coaches could not give Quinn the job and that is no coincidence. The reason he is in there now is because the season is a wash and the sooner we get this Brady experiment out of the way the sooner we can start building an actual team with an actual QB. DA or someone else. And when you sell 10,000,000 #10 jerseys to a bunch of 15 year old girls and guys who want to sleep with them, the owners tend to pressure the coach a little bit to make a decision i,e Denver on Thursday night of 2008. By pressure I mean. "isn't there any reason at all that you can find to start this kid? We're concerned about attendance. (see ticket sales the day after Quinn was named the starter).

 

PS. Montana and Sipe played in a different era. Sipe was the 70's when DB's didn't run 4.2 40s and Montana had the good fortune of playing in a revalutionary new system called the "West Coast Offense" with Jerry Rice and Roger Craig which his skills were PERFECTLY suited for. Not to mention he was always calm. Brady however, is a nervous wreck out there and doesn't have a revalutionary new system that will take defenses 10 years to adapt to.

End of Topic.

 

You crack me up!!!! You're a hopeless DA homer. Yep, end of discussion. Anderson has only not progressed, he's regressed. Scott Mitchell syndrome in my book. Can DA overcome his limitations and return to Pro Bowl status? I'll give that about as much chance of happening as Kameron Wimbley getting 12 sacks in a season again. Not willing to accept the possibility Anderson's been figured out, just like Wimbley has? Take away his one dimension (deep ball) and force him to throw short stuff. Can't do it, Just like teams figured out take away Wimbley's outside speed rush, and he's a one trick pony. Quinn's lack of arm strength is REAL in your mind. The reason BQ is in there now is because Mangini thinks he gives him the best chance to win, which incidentally gives him the best chance to keep his job. You really think EM is influenced by what teenage girls think? What a hoot! Oh, BTW, the coach that wouldn't start Quinn is currently unemployed, mainly because he couldn't recognize talent if it walked up to him and bit him in his fat a**.

[Guest BillyJack]

Somehow I think if BQ goes 5 games straight without throwing a meaningful TD or only completing 2 or 3 passes of over 18-20 yards, they're going to have to wonder if he's EVER going to be a QB that can do those things. NO excuses, just reality.

 

I was responding to some guy who claimed we should treat BQ as a rookie and let him figure it out some time way off in the future. A year or two back there were people on this board not willing to put up with growing pains with a guy who was actually putting points on the board and winning a fair portion of his starts, even though he was in pretty much the same postion is Quinn is now. So far the one who's actually shown potential is sitting on the bench.

 

 

Your Drunk Again

[D Bone]

Wow, 14 pages of this stuff...............NEITHER QB will be on this roster for the 2011 season.

[Lumbergh]

just read a post on the Ravens scout board that they'd be more worried playing Anderson than they are about Quinn.

[Drunkandstoopid]

Your Drunk Again

 

As it so happens, I've had a couple... but generally the more I've had, the more accurate I get...

 

Anyways... I'm still waiting for BQ to have a breakout win, at least show some serious potential.

 

 

EDIT: I was just curious to see how BQ's first 5 games compared to Charlie Frye's first 5 and was astounded. I recall seeing posts here about BQ having the best first start of a Brown in recent memory, turns out that is all BS, as CF had a QB rating over 130 in his first start... then settled into a long string of BQ-like games.

[Lumbergh]

I was just curious to see how BQ's first 5 games compared to Charlie Frye's first 5 and was astounded. I recall seeing posts here about BQ having the best first start of a Brown in recent memory, turns out that is all BS, as CF had a QB rating over 130 in his first start... then settled into a long string of BQ-like games.

 

This is front page news. start a new thread. shep is currently rolling over in his Quinn-dinkndunk-induced message board grave.

 

Tm Opp Result Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate

CLE JAX L 14-20 13 20 65.0% 226 2 0 136.7

 

how did anybody let shep go on so long with his bullshit story about Quinnie's 104 QB rating being a franchise record?

[mopaji]

You crack me up!!!! You're a hopeless DA homer. Yep, end of discussion. Anderson has only not progressed, he's regressed. Scott Mitchell syndrome in my book. Can DA overcome his limitations and return to Pro Bowl status? I'll give that about as much chance of happening as Kameron Wimbley getting 12 sacks in a season again. Not willing to accept the possibility Anderson's been figured out, just like Wimbley has? Take away his one dimension (deep ball) and force him to throw short stuff. Can't do it, Just like teams figured out take away Wimbley's outside speed rush, and he's a one trick pony. Quinn's lack of arm strength is REAL in your mind. The reason BQ is in there now is because Mangini thinks he gives him the best chance to win, which incidentally gives him the best chance to keep his job. You really think EM is influenced by what teenage girls think? What a hoot! Oh, BTW, the coach that wouldn't start Quinn is currently unemployed, mainly because he couldn't recognize talent if it walked up to him and bit him in his fat a**.

 

 

What cracks me up is that everyone agrees the Browns have drafted bad for 10 years except for Quinn. You know, the guy who hasn't improved at all in 3 years and shows that he simply does not have the tools to play at this level. What has anyone ever seen in BQ that says he can play in the NFL? Or what have we seen that says he is even good?

 

I'm not a die-hard DA guy, he just happens to be what we have to choose from right now. And I just think he makes the team better. Granted, not great, but better. Let's not forget how much better he moved the offense in preseason than Quinn did. He threw more picks, yes. But how would you perform if your boss was standing behind you saying "don't mess up! Make a play! Be outstanding if you want a chance! Don't mess up! Don't mess up!" I just feel like given the guys we have on this team, he is the one that has the most potential and should be coached up.

 

And, I never said the coaches care who sells the most jerseys, I said the owner does. And don't forget, he's the OWNER.

 

I like how the previous regime "couldn't recognize talent if it walked up to him and bit him in his fat a**." But somehow you think he nailed it with Quinn?! Who, like I said, hasn't improved at all in 3 years and shows that he simply does not have the tools to play at this level. That my friend, is hilarious.

 

[Legacy Fan]

What cracks me up is that everyone agrees the Browns have drafted bad for 10 years except for Quinn. You know, the guy who hasn't improved at all in 3 years and shows that he simply does not have the tools to play at this level. What has anyone ever seen in BQ that says he can play in the NFL? Or what have we seen that says he is even good?

Right. Quinn goes undrafted if the Hapless Browns don't pick him up in rd 1.

 

I'm not a die-hard DA guy, he just happens to be what we have to choose from right now. And I just think he makes the team better. Granted, not great, but better. Let's not forget how much better he moved the offense in preseason than Quinn did. He threw more picks, yes. But how would you perform if your boss was standing behind you saying "don't mess up! Make a play! Be outstanding if you want a chance! Don't mess up! Don't mess up!" I just feel like given the guys we have on this team, he is the one that has the most potential and should be coached up.

You get the type of safe, vanilla, timid play that Quinn is showing right now.

 

And, I never said the coaches care who sells the most jerseys, I said the owner does. And don't forget, he's the OWNER.

 

I like how the previous regime "couldn't recognize talent if it walked up to him and bit him in his fat a**." But somehow you think he nailed it with Quinn?! Who, like I said, hasn't improved at all in 3 years and shows that he simply does not have the tools to play at this level. That my friend, is hilarious.

I know "analysis" is difficult for you, but the basic fact remains: Mangenius has basically kept all of Savage's Day 1 guys. And they're currently starting. And not getting waived! Not looking good for your moose from Scappoose.

 

[Guest ATENEARS]

And yet, DA has NEVER won a QB competition to get the starting job.....3 regimes, 3 lost QB competitions.

 

Yet has the best record of any QB since our return ... wish we could say the same about one of the 3 regimes.

[mopaji]

Right. Quinn goes undrafted if the Hapless Browns don't pick him up in rd 1.

 

All I said is, what makes you think that considering every one of our draft picks have been aweful, Brady is the exception? And I never suggested he would be on his other career as an underwear model by now if not for Savage.

 

You get the type of safe, vanilla, timid play that Quinn is showing right now.

 

Safe, vanilla, timid is EXACTLY the type of offense we have been complaining about for the better part of 10 years. Now, all of the sudden when Quinn's lack of ability is the reason for it, it's okay? Who's the bias homer again?

 

I know "analysis" is difficult for you, but the basic fact remains: Mangenius has basically kept all of Savage's Day 1 guys. And they're currently starting. And not getting waived! Not looking good for your moose from Scappoose.

 

Right, I am one of those guys who doesn't know what I'm watching on Sunday. I only understand picks and TDs.

Manigini kpt all of Savages picks because they have been the starters here for a while. What is he supposed to do?! Cut and trade 30 guys in one off-season and start a bunch of guys with no experience and rookies? Come on man, you sound silly. :pinches cheeks and pats on head:

 

And you never answered me about what you have EVER seen in Quinn that tells you ha has what it takes to play at this level? Inaccurately translating my perfectly clear english into smears doesn't answer the question or address the topic. What's wrong? Is "analysis" difficult for you? Just answer the questions. I am still very open to changing my mind but I see ne reason to.

 

I've watched Quinn in 2 training camps, 2 preseasons, and four games and have always said the same thing. He holds the ball too long, he refuses to attempt throws past 10 yards, he's uncomfortable, he has a week arm, and the team doesn't respect him. It hasn't changed yet and I don't think it will. All his supporters can say is "DA has had some bad games and Quinn is atheletic". WHAT?!

This isn't a "my guy vs your guy" competition. I just want the best guy out there and not have fans that feel like Quinn is entitled to the job regardless of what he has shown. It's sad.

[Greythan]

I've watched Quinn in 2 training camps, 2 preseasons, and four games and have always said the same thing. He holds the ball too long, he refuses to attempt throws past 10 yards, he's uncomfortable, he has a week arm, and the team doesn't respect him. It hasn't changed yet and I don't think it will. All his supporters can say is "DA has had some bad games and Quinn is atheletic". WHAT?!

You've answered your own question right here.

 

The problem is the "I" above.

 

The current coaching staff "watched Quinn in training camp, preseason, and four games (tape I'm sure)" and picked him over DA.

 

What else do you need to know?

 

Point is, if you think Quinn sucks then we need a new QB. DA's already riding the pine behind him.

[Vegasdogg]

This is front page news. start a new thread. shep is currently rolling over in his Quinn-dinkndunk-induced message board grave.

 

Tm Opp Result Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate

CLE JAX L 14-20 13 20 65.0% 226 2 0 136.7

 

how did anybody let shep go on so long with his bullshit story about Quinnie's 104 QB rating being a franchise record?

Well that only took you a year to come up with.

[Legacy Fan]

And you never answered me about what you have EVER seen in Quinn that tells you ha has what it takes to play at this level? Inaccurately translating my perfectly clear english into smears doesn't answer the question or address the topic. What's wrong? Is "analysis" difficult for you? Just answer the questions. I am still very open to changing my mind but I see ne reason to.

You said:

What has anyone ever seen in BQ that says he can play in the NFL? Or what have we seen that says he is even good?

That's a pretty strong implication that Quinn doesn't belong in the NFL. Nobody has to translate [sic] anything. Trust me. You're not speaking in any kind of code.

 

Be a man, stand up behind your words, or I'll keep throwing them in your face.

 

After that, we can have a conversation, like adults, and I can answer your question (that 50 members including myself have answered at least 20 time each).

 

But since the search feature of the board is clearly whipping your ass right now, take a look at Greythans post (about 3 up) for the only answer you need to worry about this season.

[osusev]

You've answered your own question right here.

 

The problem is the "I" above.

 

The current coaching staff "watched Quinn in training camp, preseason, and four games (tape I'm sure)" and picked him over DA.

 

What else do you need to know?

 

Point is, if you think Quinn sucks then we need a new QB. DA's already riding the pine behind him.

 

 

By that same line of reasoning than when Quinn was riding the pine in 2007 and 2008 and that coaching staff picked DA over quinn than we needed a qb than and Quinn did not need to be seen

 

You keep trying to over simplify this as if coaching careers/owner/fans=ticket & apparal sales/over controlling gm's(savage)/skill players/offensive/defensive schemes/injuries/inconsistent plays etc dont all factor in to the equation.

 

Because of the complicated nature of that business these decisions and political/monetary/personal etc issues effect how/when/who plays... You are trying to create almost elementary conclusions and arguments to hundreds of million dollars complicated issues.

[cmac12]

How come when DA was going 13 - 11 that all anybody could say was put in the back up. Now that the back up is struggling the only alternative is that we need to stick with him?

 

Yea the Browns look like they need to get in a different QB. But, if BQ keeps playing this way for 8, 10 games then why would you want him to get a 11 million bonus? Save the money and use it to make the team better.

 

I mean to use a statement that I have heard before. How could DA play worse? This is all of course tied to IF BQ does not improve over the next several games. IF BQ actually plays well then this will be put on the back burner.

 

Last preseason can you really say that BQ would have won a QB competition? I mean DA played well in the 1 or 2 possessions he got in the first game and then got a concussion in game 2. Are you really trying to say that BQ rised up and took control in last years preseason? All BQ did last preseason is show that he might be able to play. He did not shine. And in 2007 the season went half a year before the coaching staff said opps. We called heads when we should have called tails. And changed the QB. Amd if you want to point to the 2007 preseason then yea BQ played well against 4th stringers.

 

And if you really look at last year DA started the season off 0 - 3 when he had no receivers and coming off a concussion. Over the next 5 games he lead a 4 win team to 3 wins and 2 losses and should have been 4 and 1 if not for dropped passes and ill timed interception.

 

So far this year BQ has not shown that he can move the ball well or generate first downs. But he has averaged 2 turnovers a game. Don't change now but if this trend continues then how could you possibly want to stay with him? What would be your reasoning then? Hopefully BQ improves and we don't have to make a switch. But if he keeps playing this way how could BQs own mother want him to stay in there?

[Chip Banks]

Not in his first starts of '06 . . .

I don't know how accurate that is. Anderson led a comeback victory against a an over .500 KC team in his first appearance in '06 (in relief) with 171 yards and 2 TDs in less than half a game. He held the Browns in a division game against a 13-3 Ravens team with over 230 years passing and two TDs. We were tied through three quarters. We didn't exactly have an offense powerhouse that year. We were more competitive in those games and Anderson threw for more yards than Quinn has in these two. I would stack up that Baltimore squad against this years Vikings defense any time. And, of course, he didn't get the #1 snaps in preseason and was in a new system that year for how little that really means.

 

Anderson was also unspectacular in a start against 8-8 Pittsburgh and horrific against a bad Tampa Bay team in '06. He's never been consistent, but he's capable of giving a team an offensive spark. Defenses really adjusted to him at the end of '07and in the '08 season. I'm afraid, however, that its even less work for defenses to adjust to Quinn.

 

Bottom line is this -- our hopes for competent QB play are riding on two guys that were chosen by what (by record) has been one of the worst QB talent evaluators in history. See Redman, Boller, Josh Harris, Derek Aderson, Trent Dilfer (to replace Garcia), Charlie Frye . . . Golden Boy. What's the basis of our hope, that Opie was due?

 

We play a Ravens team that has been vulnerable against the pass. Brodie Coyle registered a 116 passer rating against them. Rivers lit them up for 430 plus yards. Quinn needs to show something now or I see no purpose in NOT making a change. Can always go back to Quinn.

 

How do you even evaluate his success and progress if you have no baseline? People seem to miss the lesson of Kelly Holcomb. It was that after investing a #1 pick, umpteen million dollars, and several years in developing Couch he was at best negligibly better than a brittle-boned undrafted journeyman from a mid-major college. Without the chance for comparison we never would have known that.

[ChiefOrangeblood]

If DA is not put in the lineup within two weeks, Manginni will have a full scale MUTINY in his locker room. I expect Braylon to start it. This is Braylons contract year and Quinn will cost him millions at this rate. Seems like Quinns success is more important than the overall teams success to management. Mutiny by end of week 4.

[Lumbergh]

The current coaching staff "watched Quinn in training camp, preseason, and four games (tape I'm sure)" and picked him over DA.

 

What else do you need to know?

 

there is one other thing to know.

 

it's the fact that Randy Lerner is Quinn Fag Numero Uno and may very well be dictating who plays QB.

 

[ChiefOrangeblood]

there is one other thing to know.

 

it's the fact that Randy Lerner is Quinn Fag Numero Uno and may very well be dictating who plays QB.

 

 

DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER! Remember last year with several games left in the season Romeo told us that Quinn would be the starter of the 2009 season. Romeo knew he would not be here. That was his way of telling us that he was being forced to play Quinn, and that next years coach would be too. Grossi and Donavan both reported it is a fact that Lerner asked Manginni " how can you win with Quinn as your QB" in his interview.

 

Randy Lerner is Quinn Fag Numero Uno!

[Solon16]

there is one other thing to know.

 

it's the fact that Randy Lerner is Quinn Fag Numero Uno and may very well be dictating who plays QB.

 

Not for long if this continues....Quinn has been unwatchable. Lerner is a fan...he is watching the same things we are and he has to come up with 11 Mil if he wants to continue to watch BQ look downfield then throw to the flat or check down TE.

 

[ballpeen]

Not for long if this continues....Quinn has been unwatchable. Lerner is a fan...he is watching the same things we are and he has to come up with 11 Mil if he wants to continue to watch BQ look downfield then throw to the flat or check down TE.

 

I agree...it won't go much past game 5-6 as that 70% mark start to loom...they will make the switch before it get too close to alow some wiggle room if Anderson or whoever gets dinged up.

 

[hoorta]

If DA is not put in the lineup within two weeks, Manginni will have a full scale MUTINY in his locker room. I expect Braylon to start it. This is Braylons contract year and Quinn will cost him millions at this rate. Seems like Quinns success is more important than the overall teams success to management. Mutiny by end of week 4.

 

Braylon? Five receptions for 90 yards? The problem isn't Edwards- the problem is there's no one else right now that's proved they're a legit #2 wideout, maybe even a legit #3.

 

[hoorta]

What cracks me up is that everyone agrees the Browns have drafted bad for 10 years except for Quinn. You know, the guy who hasn't improved at all in 3 years and shows that he simply does not have the tools to play at this level. What has anyone ever seen in BQ that says he can play in the NFL? Or what have we seen that says he is even good?

 

I'm not a die-hard DA guy, he just happens to be what we have to choose from right now. And I just think he makes the team better. Granted, not great, but better. Let's not forget how much better he moved the offense in preseason than Quinn did. He threw more picks, yes. But how would you perform if your boss was standing behind you saying "don't mess up! Make a play! Be outstanding if you want a chance! Don't mess up! Don't mess up!" I just feel like given the guys we have on this team, he is the one that has the most potential and should be coached up.

 

And, I never said the coaches care who sells the most jerseys, I said the owner does. And don't forget, he's the OWNER.

 

I like how the previous regime "couldn't recognize talent if it walked up to him and bit him in his fat a**." But somehow you think he nailed it with Quinn?! Who, like I said, hasn't improved at all in 3 years and shows that he simply does not have the tools to play at this level. That my friend, is hilarious.

 

 

I've never said Quinn looks great, I'll I'm saying is Quinn deserves his legit shot to prove he's a real NFL qb. Apparently the coaching staff does too. I'll defer to Mangini's talent assessment instead of yours- we'll just have to agree to disagree. FWIW, I think the plug will get pulled on Quinn if he's still stinking it up and nearing the 70% of snaps escalator in his contract. Yeah, Randy Lerner is coaching from the owner's box- I doubt it. DA got his chance, and stunk the place out last year- worst qb rating in the NFL.

 

BTW, I'm no Quinn pumper- I HATE Notre Dame, I about did cartwheels when they took Joe Thomas instead of BQ, and my mantra the whole winter before that draft was "It will be a sin if the Browns draft Quinn". That said, it would be nice if Quinn can develop, because if he doesn't we're going to have to waste yet another first round pick on a qb in '10, instead of going after a very much needed stud LBer.

 

[Greythan]

Wow, I got the braintrust of the DA crew responding now (Lum & Sev).

 

Read my post again VERY slowly.

 

I didn't say Quinn was better. What I said is that the staff feels he's better (and/or likes his potential ceiling better). Its the exact line of reasoning that Lum himself preached to us for the 1.5 seasons DA was starting under RAC: listen to the coach. Mangini watched all the tape, watched all the practices, watched all of preseason, consulted with his staff and selected Quinn to start. Quinn won the competition (or DA lost it if you prefer). Either way, if Quinn is a collosal flame out what does that tell you?

 

I'll save you the DA homer response of "Mangini must suck at evaluating QB's". You'd have to lump in Ozzie Newsome and the entire Raven's staff along with RAC and his entire staff (remember, they selected Frye over DA). It sure looks a lot more likely that professional NFL talent evaluators (with their jobs at stake) are leery of DA both prior to and after his 2007 results. That's what the evidence tells us.

 

Sev, I'm really at a loss to try and discuss this topic with you. I can't believe that you honestly think that a) the distant owner has MANDATED that BQ start and/or that appeasing fans by letting popularity dictate personnel decisions is in Mangini's best interest. Seriously, if you believe either of those things you should turn in your driver's license as I wouldn't trust you to properly interpret street signs.

[hiwaygal]

[mopaji]

You've answered your own question right here.

 

The problem is the "I" above.

 

The current coaching staff "watched Quinn in training camp, preseason, and four games (tape I'm sure)" and picked him over DA.

 

What else do you need to know?

 

Point is, if you think Quinn sucks then we need a new QB. DA's already riding the pine behind him.

 

Okay I get it I don't know what I'm watching and am unqualified. But I already addressed why I think he was picked and it has more to do with getting this project out of the way than what was shown on the field. With that said, I do believe we will need a new QB and since nobody wants to trade good QBs, we are going to have to draft one (which I hate doing by the way) really soon. Also, one, probably both of our guys will have to be dealt before next year.

 

You still haven't told me what Quinn has done to show he can play in the NFL. I guess you will never answer that because so far nobody can. And I am eagerly awaiting to hear what you have seen that I haven't.

[Greythan]

Mop, I'm in full agreement with your last post. Its the pining for DA as a long term solution that boggles my mind. Its far more likely that that ship has sailed vs DA somehow developing into a franchise QB.

 

As for Quinn, the "evidence" is hardly compelling. What we know is that he played for a major college program and excelled in terms of the 2 best (still weak overall, but best) indicators of NFL success: number of starts and completion percentage. He appears to have all the traits you'd like to see (hard worker, good arm, athletic, etc.). However, the first two starts this year have been underwhelming to say the least.

 

I want to see more before casting judgement and I'm hoping like hell we see good things because the alternative in my opinion is drafting a QB...... again.

[Lumbergh]

Mangini watched all the tape, watched all the practices, watched all of preseason, consulted with his staff and

 

 

......and then met with Lerner who told him to start Quinn.

[Greythan]

If Quinn flames out then he's in the same category as DA for me: longshot to be "coached" up.

 

Ask yourself this question, would you bet on a guy developing into an upper echelon QB if after four years and nearly 30 starts (DA) he was unable to beat out an unproven QB with 3 starts? Is it possible for DA? Sure. I just don't think its a good bet.

 

If Quinn flames out this year then he'll be in a similar camp for me. Possible but not probable.

 

This team needs better odds than that.

[Greythan]

and then met with Lerner who told him to start Quinn.

Source.