Take Tim Couch out and put in Derek Anderson

[BrownIndian]

Lumfreddy?

 

not close:P, Paul Stanley from KISS.

[hoorta]

greythan the evidence about DA is in 10 wins, best franchise home record all time and 29tds 3700 yards in a season saddled with a terrible offense.

 

the 2008 season we everyone was banged up and our skill players lost their minds along with wierd offensive playcalling. The evidence is there that it is POSSIBLE that DA who from a 6th round practice squad guy held off a much wanted first rounder.....

 

Do I think DA is the absolute answer? NO but from the evidence of quinns last 4 starts he stagnates the offense and I would rather have a hot cold interception prone YOUNG gun slinger who at least can ignite the offense.

 

DA is young and can develop the same as quinn, however he has an NFL arm where quinn does not.

 

It really does not matter I think if BQ leads the teams offense to the same mediocrity for 2-3 more games a change will definately be coming. IF he lights it up or shows progress than he will probably be safe until the bye week if not the season. The next 2 games are crucial for his career and our teams direction this year and next.

 

We play the ravens which for quinn is more bad news and he might have a chance against Cinci...(they look improved and dangerous) and then Pittsburgh.... He would be possibly 1-4 at the best case 0-5 most likely. combine that with last year he might end up 1-7 for his first 8 games.

 

1) It's been well documented a bunch of DA's wins in the 2007 season came against the dregs of the NFL. 2008 injuries? the great ones rise above it- like Tom Brady when half of the team was on IR- DBs playing wr- remember?

 

2) Quinn doesn't have an NFL arm? Really? You're way too in love with velocity Sev. By that yardstick, I guess Joe Montana and Brian Sipe didn't have "NFL arms" either. Velocity don't mean squat if you can't control it- see George, Jeff for exhibit "A", and seasons 1-3 of Elway, John for exhibit "B".

 

Apparently, you're willing to bet that DA has learned to take something off his 95mph fastball, and throw an accurate short touch pass. Sorry, I saw nothing in the preseason that indicated he's learned to do that.

[choco]

velocity does help the ball go over 10 yards downfield. but i dont think that was the point....

 

next games, im gettin my shotgun out, too many ducks flyin around that i'll surely get something to eat.

 

in other words, accuracy....the trait everyone digs on DA about, is non-existent in quinns game.

[Guest ATENEARS]

in other words, accuracy....the trait everyone digs on DA about, is non-existent in quinns game.

 

Not to pile-on poor Brady Queen, but he hasn't impressed me with his touch on passes either.

 

.... and, had DA set Cribbs up to get smacked in the teeth in the jaws of the Bronco's defense down the middle like Quinn did, the Nation would have been screaming. It a wonder that Cribbs ain't out for this next game, he took some pops.

[hammertime]

What a bunch of whiny babies.

 

I guess it keeps the reading interesting but for crying out loud what did you expect.

 

Great, put the back up in. Again. Why is it so hard to grasp the concept of a rookie QB (1st year starter)

 

There are alot of piss poor reasons people have for wanting DA back in there. Such as the season ticket holder bs, just give up your seats if you don't want them.

 

Everyone is a freaking know it all and wants to run out of town anyone who attempts something you as fans don't approve, way to be a typical jack ass fan.

 

Quinn won the starting job, he beat out a pro bowl qb who challenged him. How long does everyone want to sling crap around hoping there opinion will alter the direction the Browns are going?

 

Quinn although crappy these first 2 games is definately not in danger yet of losing his job, if he continues with no improvement then possibly at 70% snap thresh hold you look at things differently.

 

So for all you poor, poor embarrassed Browns fan suck it up or simply go root for Buffalo.

[Guest ATENEARS]

What a bunch of whiny babies.

 

I guess it keeps the reading interesting but for crying out loud what did you expect.

 

Great, put the back up in. Again. Why is it so hard to grasp the concept of a rookie QB (1st year starter)

 

There is alot of piss poor reasons people have for wanting DA back in there. Such as the season ticket holder bs, just give up your seats if you don't want them.

 

Everyone is a freaking know it all and wants to run out of town anyone who attempts something you as fans don't approve, way to be a typical jack ass fan.

 

Quinn won the starting job, he beat out a pro bowl qb who challenged him. How long does everyone want to sling crap around hoping there opinion will alter the direction the Browns are going?

 

Quinn although crappy these first 2 games is definately not in danger yet of losing his job, if he continues with no improvement then possibly at 70% snap thresh hold you look at things differently.

 

So for all you poor, poor embarrassed Browns fan suck it up or simply go root for Buffalo.

 

The Rookie QB is only 16-months younger than the hardened disposed Vet.

 

Want to buy my PSL's and remaining Season Tickets, Big guy?

[Chip Banks]

With that said I still say stay with BQ 10 games, only reason I would bench him is to save the 11 million bonus to invest in FA's next season. You realy do need to make sure BQ is not the answer because next years draft depends on what you think.

 

I agree with one exception.

 

I don't think you need to let the season completely slip away for the sake of giving Quinn his 9-10 consecutive starts. We can always go to back to Quinn if Anderson doesn't show improvement and the team remains uncompetitive . . . let Quinn get his 69.9% of the snaps that way.

 

If this team goes 0-4 and shows the same lack of offensive spark it has shown through two games, the season is tanked and it's hard to judge Quinn anyway for the following 5-6 games. The team will be in free fall.

 

Quinn's trade value has already been compromised. It will never be higher than it was before the season. I give him one more start to show more than he has in the first two games. To throw the team a life-line, give Anderson the next three starts. If he does nothing with them, give Brady his five or six in a row and if you don't see the necessary improvement, give a game or two back to Anderson then evaluate Ratliff.

 

I really think that the QB competition dragged out so long because Mangini wanted Quinn to win the locker room. The Smith incident and what occurred (or didn't occur) after suggests to me that he didn't have the respect of all the players in the locker room. I think Mangini knew the backlash he'd face if he did not at least give Quinn the chance to start the season as the Browns QB. The local media loves this kid like they loved Tim Couch and he has (or had) popular fan support. So the option to start Quinn was the most more attractive to begin with if all things were close to equal.

 

I doubt that Quinn ever totally won the locker room with his play, but my guess is that one more performance like the last one and it will be lost.

 

One more game to show marked improvement. The Ravens have been vulnerable to the pass this season. KC's backup (Coyle) was 16-24 for 177 yds, 2 tds and no Int and registered a 116 passer rating in a 38-24 loss.

 

Rivers rolled up 436 yards and threw 2 TDs (and 2 picks) in a 31-26 loss.

 

Neither team has run a lick against the Ravens.

 

We need to see a pulse.

 

[Riffer X]

The Rookie QB is only 16-months younger than the hardened disposed Vet.

 

Want to buy my PSL's and remaining Season Tickets, Big guy?

 

Dude dat is da ich material there......dis is too funny

[PlaygroundLegend]

Blaming anyone other than BQ is pretty cowardly.

 

Man up and accept he's shitting the bed.

 

No worse than DA though..... DONNNNNT STOOOOOOOOP BEEELEEEEEEEEEEEEEVIN!

 

I have to wholeheartedly disagree, Here is a post of mine from another thread taking direct excerpts from Coach Mangini's press conferences, I dont think we can really blame Quinn for most of this, alot of the things that happened in game were the fault of our momentum being shut down by a dumb penalty, fumble (Mack on a bad snap), and dropped passes.

 

ummmm....

 

(On Brady Quinn seeming indecisive at times against Denver)- "I thought there were times that he made some really good decisions. There was one point, I forget which quarter it was in, but they brought a corner blitz off of our sideline. He hit Braylon (Edwards) on the sideline. He recognized the blitz coming was able to step up, sort of avoid the corners, the head on contact and get the ball out to Braylon. I thought that the two plays before we had the fumbled exchange, when we were backed up, he threw a nice ball on the in-cut. There were some other nice balls, as well. Then there were some plays where I felt like he could have done a better job with the read. He knows that and it's been pointed out and those are things that we need to see a little bit better the next time was face it."

 

So here we have a classic media question trying to get Mangini to say something negative about Quinn, looks like he had alot of POSITIVE things to say

 

(On if Quinn is facing typical growing pains of a young quarterback)- "Yes, I think there are a lot of things, offensively, as we continue to work against opponents and work together against opponents that we're going to have to adjust to and improve on. With a team like Denver, that is game plan specific, you can go in and plan and anticipate, but there's always going to be stuff that wasn't on the list. You need to come off to the sideline, see those things, correct those things and hopefully pick them up and capitalize next time you see it."

 

Here we have Mangini saying that Quinns play is typical growing pains that come with a new offense and a young QB, Brady is our QB of the future, lets let him develop and make mistakes now, so he can get better later. (i.e. Eli Manning & Drew Brees)

 

(On how much the struggles going on around Brady Quinn are affecting his play)- "As we talked about after the game Mary Kay (Cabot), it starts with the quarterback. Usually that's what everybody looks at. Typically, they get a lion's share of the credit and a lion's share of the blame, but as you watch any play, it comes down to everybody doing what they're supposed to do on that spot. You might be looking downfield to anticipate the in-cut breaking open or come back, or whatever it is, knowing that your check down is going to be in a certain spot. When you come back and that check down's not where it's supposed to be, that might be the difference between a sack and not a sack. They bring a corner pressure and the back is supposed to check front side, and then come back side, you have to trust that that's being taken care of. Sometimes you can get sacked and the protection should have had it picked up. It may look like you moved into that sack, but that's not necessarily the case. Same thing with routes, sometimes it looks like the throw's way off and in reality, the adjustment wasn't what it was supposed to be. It's really relying on everybody doing what they're supposed to do."

 

Thank you Eric Mangini

 

Mangini Is pretty confident in Quinn, he was even asked if he could see Quinn starting far down the road and he said "Yes... Absolutely!"

 

I think it has way more to do with the line play, the playcalling, and the route running than Quinns play, who is he supposed to throw to if his wideouts arent open, and his check down is in the wrong place/covered? Not to mention the pass protection is breaking down

[samoth]

If Quinn doesn't turn around before he hits his incentive clauses we'll be back to DA. We could very easily go 0-16 this year, though we do play the Chiefs, Lions and Raiders.

[hoorta]

I have to wholeheartedly disagree, Here is a post of mine from another thread taking direct excerpts from Coach Mangini's press conferences, I dont think we can really blame Quinn for most of this, alot of the things that happened in game were the fault of our momentum being shut down by a dumb penalty, fumble (Mack on a bad snap), and dropped passes.

 

 

 

Mangini Is pretty confident in Quinn, he was even asked if he could see Quinn starting far down the road and he said "Yes... Absolutely!"

 

I think it has way more to do with the line play, the playcalling, and the route running than Quinns play, who is he supposed to throw to if his wideouts arent open, and his check down is in the wrong place/covered? Not to mention the pass protection is breaking down

 

RE: the pass protection breaking down- as I mentioned earlier, on a sheer numbers basis, the Browns actually got to Orton more times than the Broncos got to Quinn. However, there were way more times that Orton could count to Mississippi six, have a snack and finally deliver a pass to a wide open Brandon Stokley. No secondary can cover WRs forever.

 

That's not to exonerate Quinn- he does need to do a better job of reading the D and unloading the ball faster than we've seen to date.

 

[hammertime]

The Rookie QB is only 16-months younger than the hardened disposed Vet.

 

Want to buy my PSL's and remaining Season Tickets, Big guy?

 

Thanks for the cold hard facts.

 

And no on the psl and seats, just put 2 of the kids in braces (damn thats expensive)

[razor1414]

what section?

[Guest ATENEARS]

what section?

 

Section: 342, Row 15 (available next season)

 

Season Tickets:

$55.00 per seat x2 seats = 110.00 x10 = $ 1100.00

PSL's:

$925.00 per seat x2 seats = $ 1,850.00

 

Total:

$2,950.00 in 2010 (unless price change, may include transfer fee [$50?], and handling small handling fee [$4])

 

Basically $3k and the pair are yours starting next season ... each year the renewable season tixs are $1100/per season, with you owning the PSL.

 

Good seats, below is a view from the seats:

 

[razor1414]

im in 540 now. are you serious?

[hammertime]

Section: 342, Row 15 (available next season)

 

Season Tickets:

$55.00 per seat x2 seats = 110.00 x10 = $ 1100.00

PSL's:

$925.00 per seat x2 seats = $ 1,850.00

 

Total:

$2,950.00 in 2010 (unless price change, may include transfer fee [$50?], and handling small handling fee [$4])

 

Basically $3k and the pair are yours for next season!

 

Good seats, below is a view from the seats:

 

 

Actually i may try and straighten there teeth myself.

[Guest ATENEARS]

im in 540 now. are you serious?

 

Yes, I'm serious.

[thomasw]

Notre Dame hype machine!!!!

[Drunkandstoopid]

What a bunch of whiny babies.

 

I guess it keeps the reading interesting but for crying out loud what did you expect.

 

Great, put the back up in. Again. Why is it so hard to grasp the concept of a rookie QB (1st year starter)

 

 

The last "rookie QB" we had tied the club record for TDs in a game, threw a ton of TDs, had more TD's than turnovers, and won 10 games to boot... and many of the posters here wanted to dump him.

 

Be careful what you wish for.

 

 

[Drunkandstoopid]

I have to wholeheartedly disagree, Here is a post of mine from another thread taking direct excerpts from Coach Mangini's press conferences, I dont think we can really blame Quinn for most of this, alot of the things that happened in game were the fault of our momentum being shut down by a dumb penalty, fumble (Mack on a bad snap), and dropped passes.

 

 

 

Mangini Is pretty confident in Quinn, he was even asked if he could see Quinn starting far down the road and he said "Yes... Absolutely!"

 

The question is, does "far down the road" mean Tampa or San Diego, Oakland or something similar?

[ballpeen]

Im not trying to be a smartass here but if you are giving up your psl's is the tailgate and this board to follow?

 

I don't think so. I think Stan has a few seats....like the raffle seats that he can use and not offer up as a fund raiser for charity..at least I hope so...those guys have a sweet set-up in the new lot...I may even like it more then the other lot to be honest.

 

Has a bridge to offer some protection from the elements and some woods where you can relieve yourself over some bridge abutment where you are either standing in a puddle of urine or standing far enough away to show yourself to the world....

 

 

[mopaji]

1) It's been well documented a bunch of DA's wins in the 2007 season came against the dregs of the NFL. 2008 injuries? the great ones rise above it- like Tom Brady when half of the team was on IR- DBs playing wr- remember?

 

2) Quinn doesn't have an NFL arm? Really? You're way too in love with velocity Sev. By that yardstick, I guess Joe Montana and Brian Sipe didn't have "NFL arms" either. Velocity don't mean squat if you can't control it- see George, Jeff for exhibit "A", and seasons 1-3 of Elway, John for exhibit "B".

 

Apparently, you're willing to bet that DA has learned to take something off his 95mph fastball, and throw an accurate short touch pass. Sorry, I saw nothing in the preseason that indicated he's learned to do that.

 

 

NO NO NO NO! It doesn't matter how DA succeeded the point is that he has. And the fact remains Brady hasn't. He also hasn't improved even one percent on any part of his game in 3 YEARS........He has peaked.

 

Quinn's lack of arm strength is REAL and it causes him to NOT make throws that he should be making. And it makes him less accurate. If the ball doesn't get there quick enough, it will be high, low, or behind. He rarely ever throws to a guy who isn't standing still or at the most a slow trot because he CANNOT get it there and he knows it. In his mind, 25 incompletes and 15 sacks is better than one interception. WRONG WRONG WRONG. Take a chance with your lousy arm, learn to play effectively with it, or call your family doctor and take yourself out, again!

 

With DA. He is still a young QB and has NEVER been coached up to be "the guy". Every year, every day, every throw, every second he has been here he has been in a QB competition. He is still raw because of this. And it is his 3rd system in 4 years! Taking just those two things into consideration, it's quite an accomplishment just to be in the league right now let alone have a 29 TD season! And, 2008 he had ZERO targets to go to and was still asked to throw 30-40 times a game. Assinine, just assinine.

 

20 teams and 2 coaches could not give Quinn the job and that is no coincidence. The reason he is in there now is because the season is a wash and the sooner we get this Brady experiment out of the way the sooner we can start building an actual team with an actual QB. DA or someone else. And when you sell 10,000,000 #10 jerseys to a bunch of 15 year old girls and guys who want to sleep with them, the owners tend to pressure the coach a little bit to make a decision i,e Denver on Thursday night of 2008. By pressure I mean. "isn't there any reason at all that you can find to start this kid? We're concerned about attendance. (see ticket sales the day after Quinn was named the starter).

 

PS. Montana and Sipe played in a different era. Sipe was the 70's when DB's didn't run 4.2 40s and Montana had the good fortune of playing in a revalutionary new system called the "West Coast Offense" with Jerry Rice and Roger Craig which his skills were PERFECTLY suited for. Not to mention he was always calm. Brady however, is a nervous wreck out there and doesn't have a revalutionary new system that will take defenses 10 years to adapt to.

 

End of Topic.

[Drunkandstoopid]

With DA. He is still a young QB and has NEVER been coached up to be "the guy". Every year, every day, every throw, every second he has been here he has been in a QB competition. He is still raw because of this. And it is his 3rd system in 4 years!

 

Technically, 4th in 4 years... One offense in Baltimore, 3 in Cleveland.

 

[mopaji]

Technically, 4th in 4 years... One offense in Baltimore, 3 in Cleveland.

 

 

Yes! Thank you! 4!

[hammertime]

Technically, 4th in 4 years... One offense in Baltimore, 3 in Cleveland.

 

 

OK, lets say it's his 10th frickin system, he got beat out in a 'open' competition.

 

What part of the preseason, TC, or last year and tailend of previous season did you not see?

 

 

My whole point is to move forward and not keep reaching back to 2007. If Quinn is a bust at least you know for sure by playing him this year. Argue all you want about DA but what more proof do you really need?

 

Stand behind a new 'rookie' qb and hope for continued success unlike the previous 'rookie'.

[Drunkandstoopid]

OK, lets say it's his 10th frickin system, he got beat out in a 'open' competition.

 

What part of the preseason, TC, or last year and tailend of previous season did you not see?

 

 

My whole point is to move forward and not keep reaching back to 2007. If Quinn is a bust at least you know for sure by playing him this year. Argue all you want about DA but what more proof do you really need?

 

Stand behind a new 'rookie' qb and hope for continued success unlike the previous 'rookie'.

 

Are you saying we should stand behind BQ and hope for "continued success"? That sort of implies the team's had some with him at the helm.

 

I say give BQ four to five games to show "success" or at least improvement to the point that the team can expect to win some games... they had that with the last guy. The Browns immediately got better when DA stepped on the field in '07, and despite his troubles later in the season the team still had success, won what, 5 of their last 7 games. In '08, he shouldn't have been playing early on, the team had lots of health issues, and when BQ came in they were healthy for all of one game, but that ended in a loss anyways. This preseason I saw both QBs get screwed as far as practice and game time, tough to make a judgement. All's I know is DA made things happen, some good, some bad. I've yet to see BQ make anything happen.

[hammertime]

Are you saying we should stand behind BQ and hope for "continued success"? That sort of implies the team's had some with him at the helm.

 

I say give BQ four to five games to show "success" or at least improvement to the point that the team can expect to win some games... they had that with the last guy. The Browns immediately got better when DA stepped on the field in '07, and despite his troubles later in the season the team still had success, won what, 5 of their last 7 games. In '08, he shouldn't have been playing early on, the team had lots of health issues, and when BQ came in they were healthy for all of one game, but that ended in a loss anyways. This preseason I saw both QBs get screwed as far as practice and game time, tough to make a judgement. All's I know is DA made things happen, some good, some bad. I've yet to see BQ make anything happen.

 

It seems the only thing we are really debating is how long do you give Quinn before he's benched, and at that point your left with his back up.

 

It might be difficult but i'll look for the positives in his play and hope option B isn't needed, because if it is option C is a neccessity.

[Greythan]

I say give BQ four to five games to show "success" or at least improvement to the point that the team can expect to win some games... they had that with the last guy. The Browns immediately got better when DA stepped on the field in '07, and despite his troubles later in the season the team still had success, won what, 5 of their last 7 games. In '08, he shouldn't have been playing early on, the team had lots of health issues, and when BQ came in they were healthy for all of one game, but that ended in a loss anyways. This preseason I saw both QBs get screwed as far as practice and game time, tough to make a judgement. All's I know is DA made things happen, some good, some bad. I've yet to see BQ make anything happen.

You're usually pretty logical. This is just a bad post.

 

They didn't "have that" with the last guy. They had success in '07. Not in his first starts of '06 and not in all but one start in '08. The last guy lost his job.

 

I love all the excuses embedded in your post for DA but its all on the new QB for the lack of success in 2 games this year.

 

You're going to see more than "four or five" starts barring a complete and obvious breakdown of Quinn's play. Sure, its hard to intepret Mangini's thoughts through is press remarks, but its all we have to go on. Nothing there indicates Quinn is on that kind of leash.

[Drunkandstoopid]

You're usually pretty logical. This is just a bad post.

 

They didn't "have that" with the last guy. They had success in '07. Not in his first starts of '06 and not in all but one start in '08. The last guy lost his job.

 

I love all the excuses embedded in your post for DA but its all on the new QB for the lack of success in 2 games this year.

 

You're going to see more than "four or five" starts barring a complete and obvious breakdown of Quinn's play. Sure, its hard to intepret Mangini's thoughts through is press remarks, but its all we have to go on. Nothing there indicates Quinn is on that kind of leash.

Somehow I think if BQ goes 5 games straight without throwing a meaningful TD or only completing 2 or 3 passes of over 18-20 yards, they're going to have to wonder if he's EVER going to be a QB that can do those things. NO excuses, just reality.

 

I was responding to some guy who claimed we should treat BQ as a rookie and let him figure it out some time way off in the future. A year or two back there were people on this board not willing to put up with growing pains with a guy who was actually putting points on the board and winning a fair portion of his starts, even though he was in pretty much the same postion is Quinn is now. So far the one who's actually shown potential is sitting on the bench.

[NebBrownsFan]

Technically, 4th in 4 years... One offense in Baltimore, 3 in Cleveland.

 

And yet, DA has NEVER won a QB competition to get the starting job.....3 regimes, 3 lost QB competitions.