Stockton Shorts Discusses Brian Hoyer

[Tour2ma]

I'm new here, but I think at some point you have to find out what you have in Manziel. That said, now is NOT that time. The Browns are in the playoff hunt, you DO NOT mess with that. Hoyer has to be the guy now, for many reasons, but mainly because the team is winning and could make the playoffs.

 

If you took Hoyer out, even at the end of yesterday's game, it sends a message to the team that you're not good enough with your best qb (at this time). That's a horrible message to send to a team that's gonna be fighting the next 6 games to get to the playoffs.

 

Maybe Manziel is the beast I think he will be, and nobody thinks more highly of him than me, but now is not the time.

Not sure if I just gave you your first +1, but it won't be your last...

 

Once again, Brian Hoyer is the reason why we can't run the ball. Teams have zero fear of Hoyers arm, and simply play man on the outside and creep everyone else to the line. This is well known at this point.

What a crock of shit.

Brian hoyer is not the reason we couldn't run the ball.

 

You keep saying this, and keep saying teams are "loading the box" but there's no other way to put it, you're wrong.

Last Thursday Cinci posted 8+ in the box more than any other team we have faced.

 

And StockBoy was nowhere to be seen...

[RoyceRolls]

Can you imagine the response if Manziel had thrown 30 incompletions?

For him to get the chance to do so, Johnny would have to earn the starting spot. I know you, in your infinite Dallas Cowboys wisdom, know better than the coaching staff who only sees the team at every practice and at every meeting and in the film room every week.

 

You can suck jizz out of skip bayless until you get a tummy ache but if Hoyer is so terrible, and JCF can't win the starting spot, what does that say about Johnny?

[USFBrown]

I would love to have Manning, rogers, Brees, or Brady as our qb. But we don't. We have an average game manager with a shoddy o line, Jekyll/Hyde defense, and a bunch of overachieving no name wrs.

 

Please enlighten us on how we can get these so called franchise qbs. Because only 5 people in the world currently seem to be a franchise qb.

 

We have an average qb, an unproven rookie who doesn't appear to be better than our average qb, and practice squad fodder.

[StocktonShorts]

I would love to have Manning, rogers, Brees, or Brady as our qb. But we don't. We have an average game manager with a shoddy o line, Jekyll/Hyde defense, and a bunch of overachieving no name wrs.

 

Please enlighten us on how we can get these so called franchise qbs. Because only 5 people in the world currently seem to be a franchise qb.

 

We have an average qb, an unproven rookie who doesn't appear to be better than our average qb, and practice squad fodder.

You draft them.

 

Theres a lot more than 5 Franchise QBs.

 

Hoyer isn't one of them. The minute you realize that you have to move on. You're wasting time playing him.

 

We have two unproven Rookies at QB. At one time everyone of those Franchise QBs were unproven rookies. You know how they became Franchise QBs? They played.

 

That is how you find them USFBrown. You play them, and you see. We've played Hoyer and we see a guy who isn't a Franchise QB.

 

 

[USFBrown]

You draft them.

 

Theres a lot more than 5 Franchise QBs.

 

Hoyer isn't one of them. The minute you realize that you have to move on. You're wasting time playing him.

 

We have two unproven Rookies at QB. At one time everyone of those Franchise QBs were unproven rookies. You know how they became Franchise QBs? They played.

 

That is how you find them USFBrown. You play them, and you see. We've played Hoyer and we see a guy who isn't a Franchise QB.

 

 

You play a rookie who can't beat our a journeyman when you're in the midst of the playoffs?

 

That's not gonna fly. The kid still has time to show his stuff.

 

I'll tale the chance of playoffs vs the risk of losing completely.

 

And its easy to say you draft and play them. The browns have been doing that for 15 years. They haven't found one yet. Neither have a lot of other teams found a franchise qb.

 

Football is the ultimate team game. You need a good team to win. Qb is one of the most important parts. But you can win with a good d and a qb who protects the ball. Like hoyer does.

[StocktonShorts]

You play a rookie who can't beat our a journeyman when you're in the midst of the playoffs?

 

That's not gonna fly. The kid still has time to show his stuff.

 

I'll tale the chance of playoffs vs the risk of losing completely.

 

And its easy to say you draft and play them. The browns have been doing that for 15 years. They haven't found one yet. Neither have a lot of other teams found a franchise qb.

 

Football is the ultimate team game. You need a good team to win. Qb is one of the most important parts. But you can win with a good d and a qb who protects the ball. Like hoyer does.

Once again all the Browns have done is taken other teams trash and tried to make them gold.

 

Playing Hoyer IS repeating what the Browns have done over and over.

 

Browns have taken 3 QBs in the first round before Manziel. Couch/Quinn/Weeden. Thats it. 3 times in 14 years.

 

Meanwhile Holcombe, Detmer, Dilfer, Peterson, Garcia, Gradkowksi, Campbell, Anderson, and Delhomme were all cast offs that other teams didn't want that we brought in because we thought we could win "right now"

 

Browns have failed to establish a plan and stick to it because they let some other teams garbage come in and disrupt the plans in an effort to sneak into the playoffs right now, and when that fails it turns into everyone being fired and having to restart.

 

Sound familiar?

 

Don't let starvation lead you to believe that a can of tuna is Thanksgiving Dinner and thats exactly what you Browns fans are doing.

 

Its like that experiment with kids where you stick a bowl of M&Ms in front of them and say "You can either have 1 M&M now but none after that OR if you don't eat any for 4 hours you can have all the M&Ms you want" and each time the kids eat the 1 M&M right away because kids are dumb and don't understand the concept of sacrifice for a greater goal.

 

Thats what the Browns have been since 1999. Brian Hoyer is once again the Browns wanting the 1 M&M now and saying "Fuck it" to the future.

[Ibleedbrown]

Who DO you like on the Browns Stockton? All we ever get is the Hoyer bashing. Sure man, you might be right, but it's pretty one dimensional.

 

Any receivers float your boat? Running backs? Defensive dudes?

 

How about our mascot Swagger? Cute little fella, right? Totally inspires fear in the opponent.

[bbedward]

Once again all the Browns have done is taken other teams trash and tried to make them gold.

 

Playing Hoyer IS repeating what the Browns have done over and over.

Winning?

 

Browns have taken 3 QBs in the first round before Manziel. Couch/Quinn/Weeden. Thats it. 3 times in 14 years.

Proves that 1st-round QBs don't always pan out.

Meanwhile Holcombe, Detmer, Dilfer, Peterson, Garcia, Gradkowksi, Campbell, Anderson, and Delhomme were all cast offs that other teams didn't want that we brought in because we thought we could win "right now"

Most of these guys we didn't bring in to "win now", maybe some of them. It just so happened some of these guys became starters

Browns have failed to establish a plan and stick to it because they let some other teams garbage come in and disrupt the plans in an effort to sneak into the playoffs right now, and when that fails it turns into everyone being fired and having to restart.

Hoyer hasn't disrupted any effort for the future. If anything, he's been a benefit to our potential future QB in Manziel - if that's the route it ends up going.

 

Sound familiar?

No

Don't let starvation lead you to believe that a can of tuna is Thanksgiving Dinner and thats exactly what you Browns fans are doing.

 

Its like that experiment with kids where you stick a bowl of M&Ms in front of them and say "You can either have 1 M&M now but none after that OR if you don't eat any for 4 hours you can have all the M&Ms you want" and each time the kids eat the 1 M&M right away because kids are dumb and don't understand the concept of sacrifice for a greater goal.

 

Thats what the Browns have been since 1999. Brian Hoyer is once again the Browns wanting the 1 M&M now and saying "Fuck it" to the future.

 

Winning and making the playoffs is part of the process. You act like the fact we're in playoff contention is the worst thing in the world because we won't get the #1 overall pick.

 

Our young roster, assets, and cap flexibility would indicate that the browns aren't saying "Fuck it" to the future. Tanking the season because we might get knocked out of the first round of the playoffs is absolutely absurd.

[jcam222]

Once again all the Browns have done is taken other teams trash and tried to make them gold.

 

Playing Hoyer IS repeating what the Browns have done over and over.

 

Browns have taken 3 QBs in the first round before Manziel. Couch/Quinn/Weeden. Thats it. 3 times in 14 years.

 

Meanwhile Holcombe, Detmer, Dilfer, Peterson, Garcia, Gradkowksi, Campbell, Anderson, and Delhomme were all cast offs that other teams didn't want that we brought in because we thought we could win "right now"

 

Browns have failed to establish a plan and stick to it because they let some other teams garbage come in and disrupt the plans in an effort to sneak into the playoffs right now, and when that fails it turns into everyone being fired and having to restart.

 

Sound familiar?

 

Don't let starvation lead you to believe that a can of tuna is Thanksgiving Dinner and thats exactly what you Browns fans are doing.

 

Its like that experiment with kids where you stick a bowl of M&Ms in front of them and say "You can either have 1 M&M now but none after that OR if you don't eat any for 4 hours you can have all the M&Ms you want" and each time the kids eat the 1 M&M right away because kids are dumb and don't understand the concept of sacrifice for a greater goal.

 

Thats what the Browns have been since 1999. Brian Hoyer is once again the Browns wanting the 1 M&M now and saying "Fuck it" to the future.

Based on your ongoing convoluted logic we should then have been fantastic on the three times we drafted but they sucked. You have no idea if Manziel will be good or not. There is absolutely no reason to rush him.

[StocktonShorts]

Once again Hoyer is not the future.

Should be obvious to everyone by now.

You don't build a house and wait until its time to furnish it and go "Time to switch out the foundation"

You build around your QB. Find the QB then build with that QB.

Thats how you have a chance at the playoffs for 10 straight years and not just 1 year in which you have the easiest schedule in the NFL (and despite that if the playoffs were next week we wouldn't make it)

[StocktonShorts]

Based on your ongoing convoluted logic we should then have been fantastic on the three times we drafted but they sucked. You have no idea if Manziel will be good or not. There is absolutely no reason to rush him.

How would one find out if Manziel is good or not?

[PlaygroundLegend]

"Theres No Reason To Rush Him"

 

Dont you think he should get in game OTJ training? If he is our starter next year.. wouldnt it be good if he got 5-6 games under his belt so he has seen live bullets? That makes sense to me. You wouldnt want him to start off next season unprepared. It would be unfair to judge him then. Now the he would be in his second year.. people will expect more.. but its unfair to expect more if he's never played. Thats why you give him games THIS year.. so NEXT year you can get a better judgement of his play

[D Bone]

"Theres No Reason To Rush Him"

 

Dont you think he should get in game OTJ training? If he is our starter next year.. wouldnt it be good if he got 5-6 games under his belt so he has seen live bullets? That makes sense to me. You wouldnt want him to start off next season unprepared. It would be unfair to judge him then. Now the he would be in his second year.. people will expect more.. but its unfair to expect more if he's never played. Thats why you give him games THIS year.. so NEXT year you can get a better judgement of his play

 

If we weren't right smack in the middle of the division crown / playoff picture, then it would be simple. No one here disagrees with this, however there is a time and a place, and at 6-4 it's neither............. I just don't see why this is so hard for some to understand?

[USFBrown]

Once again Hoyer is not the future.

 

Should be obvious to everyone by now.

 

You don't build a house and wait until its time to furnish it and go "Time to switch out the foundation"

 

You build around your QB. Find the QB then build with that QB.

 

Thats how you have a chance at the playoffs for 10 straight years and not just 1 year in which you have the easiest schedule in the NFL (and despite that if the playoffs were next week we wouldn't make it)

 

 

Counter points... Russell Wilson, Aaron rogers, big gay Ben, tom Brady. All had great foundations, mainly a good/great d before they came in.

 

Its just not as easy as you're trying to make it or all NFL teams would have franchise qbs. I get your opinion but its easier said than done.

[StocktonShorts]

 

If we weren't right smack in the middle of the division crown / playoff picture, then it would be simple. No one here disagrees with this, however there is a time and a place, and at 6-4 it's neither............. I just don't see why this is so hard for some to understand?

Once again, you are choosing the M&M now instead of all you want later.

 

This team is not Super Bowl quality. Brian Hoyer isn't the future.

 

Those two things are known, everything else is just a waste of time. What are you doing then? Honestly tell me. What are you going to prove if the Browns make the 6 seed and then start a 2nd year QB that has never seen the field before next year, against a 1st or 2nd in the division schedule no less. Is that how you build long term? Or even worse you resign Hoyer. Then its medocre from here until the eyes can see.

 

Browns have played the easiest schedule in the NFL and if the playoffs started next week the Browns would finish 10th in the conference. What more do you need to find out about this year?

 

I've said it since day 1, this is all a waste of time. "Oh Stockton being in the playoff hunt is a waste of time huh?" yes. Yes it is. It only goes to show how small time you people are. You care more about this team, which isn't that good, having a chance at the playoffs NOW then setting this franchise up for the future.

[USFBrown]

 

If we weren't right smack in the middle of the division crown / playoff picture, then it would be simple. No one here disagrees with this, however there is a time and a place, and at 6-4 it's neither............. I just don't see why this is so hard for some to understand?

Exactly. Maziel is on contract for years. We are in the hunt for playoffs. NFL is a win now league. The browns are winning now more than ever. Hoyer is behind the o line, run d, and wrs of things that need fixing.

[RoyceRolls]

How would one find out if Manziel is good or not?

allow him to learn the playbook and adjust to a game that he isn't acclimated to without forcing anything or stunting his growth by throwing him to the wolves. Whether manziel plays this season or not has absolutely no bearing on the 2015 draft. the Browns won't draft a new QB either way.

 

Brian Hoyer isn't setting the world on fire, but he is protecting the ball, something I'm not sure a 21 year old rookie is able to do. coaches dont look to what's best for next year or the year after that. Pettine will leave next year to Farmer. All the coaching staff is worried about is the next game. Coaches who don't focus all their energy on winning their next game don't hold their job very long. You should be smart enough to grab ahold of that concept, You're smart enough to forge a Mensa membership card.

[bbedward]

If Manziel did play the last 6 games, and did poorly - the browns wouldn't trash him and draft another 1st round QB in 2015 (Only if Stockton was the GM). It'd be nice to "see what he's got" but you don't draft a first round QB every year, like Stockton thinks you do. In other words you don't give up on a guy even if he has a poor rookie season. Do you think Jacksonville will give up on Bortles? Minny on Bridgewater? Oakland on Carr? These are higher picked guys who aren't lighting the world on fire their rookie years - the highest picked guy actually kinda sucks.

 

What's the benefit in "seeing what he's got." We'll have him next year. We're not going to use another 1st on a QB next year regardless.

[StocktonShorts]

Counter points... Russell Wilson, Aaron rogers, big gay Ben, tom Brady. All had great foundations, mainly a good/great d before they came in.

 

Its just not as easy as you're trying to make it or all NFL teams would have franchise qbs. I get your opinion but its easier said than done.

They absolutely built around Russell Wilson. They were going to start Matt Flynn because he was Rodgers backup and had experience, but Pete Carroll said no started a mobile rookie and let him learn on the job.

 

The defense was rebuilt the same year, the Seahawks were 7-9 the year before. The grew together and in the 2nd year of Wilson got a Super Bowl. They weren't great before Wilson.

 

Same with Big Ben. They were 6-10 the year before and he took over a 2-1 team. They grew together. Super Bowl in 2nd year.

 

Tom Brady, they were 5-11 the year before and he took over a 0-2 team. They weren't a great team. They became great together, Super Bowl in 1st year.

 

Aaron Rodgers they had a team that was 13-3 the year before. Rodgers sat on the bench for 4 years. They were loaded...the first year he played they went 6-10. They stripped that team down and built around Rodgers strengths, next year 11-5 and Super Bowl in his 3rd year.

 

You build around your QB. This idea that all these teams were built up and these QBs were eased in, is flat wrong. You get your QB and you build the team.

 

 

[bbedward]

Once again, you are choosing the M&M now instead of all you want later.

 

This team is not Super Bowl quality. Brian Hoyer isn't the future.

 

Those two things are known, everything else is just a waste of time. What are you doing then? Honestly tell me. What are you going to prove if the Browns make the 6 seed and then start a 2nd year QB that has never seen the field before next year, against a 1st or 2nd in the division schedule no less. Is that how you build long term? Or even worse you resign Hoyer. Then its medocre from here until the eyes can see.

 

Browns have played the easiest schedule in the NFL and if the playoffs started next week the Browns would finish 10th in the conference. What more do you need to find out about this year?

 

I've said it since day 1, this is all a waste of time. "Oh Stockton being in the playoff hunt is a waste of time huh?" yes. Yes it is. It only goes to show how small time you people are. You care more about this team, which isn't that good, having a chance at the playoffs NOW then setting this franchise up for the future.

 

Becuz' making the playoffs would set this franchise back 10 more years and Hoyer is the only reason we're not undefeated. Got it.

[StocktonShorts]

 

Becuz' making the playoffs would set this franchise back 10 more years and Hoyer is the only reason we're not undefeated. Got it.

What would happen if we didn't make the playoffs?

 

Would that make this year worth it? Would that justify not seeing Manziel play before you have to make a contract decision on Hoyer? Or would that mean they fucked up?

[RoyceRolls]

What would happen if we didn't make the playoffs?

 

Would that make this year worth it? Would that justify not seeing Manziel play before you have to make a contract decision on Hoyer? Or would that mean they fucked up?

You're 100 percent positive that Hoyer isn't the answer and doesn't deserve starter money. How would Manziel change that? You're breaking your own logic...

[StocktonShorts]

You're 100 percent positive that Hoyer isn't the answer and doesn't deserve starter money. How would Manziel change that? You're breaking your own logic...

Because I'm 100% positive that Hoyer isn't the answer and doesn't deserve starter money is why I have been saying from the start that Manziel needs to play so the Browns know what they have going forward. Also the sooner Manziel gets experience the faster he'll be good (if he's going to be good). Letting him take his lumps now sets the Browns up better for next year.

 

Playing Hoyer is only delaying that.

[RoyceRolls]

I don't think you realize how stupid you sound by inferring that the Browns would draft a new QB one year after trading up in the first round to select a QB. Manziel could shit down the side of his leg for the last six games and they still wouldn't draft a new one.

[USFBrown]

They absolutely built around Russell Wilson. They were going to start Matt Flynn because he was Rodgers backup and had experience, but Pete Carroll said no started a mobile rookie and let him learn on the job.

 

The defense was rebuilt the same year, the Seahawks were 7-9 the year before. The grew together and in the 2nd year of Wilson got a Super Bowl. They weren't great before Wilson.

 

Same with Big Ben. They were 6-10 the year before and he took over a 2-1 team. They grew together. Super Bowl in 2nd year.

 

Tom Brady, they were 5-11 the year before and he took over a 0-2 team. They weren't a great team. They became great together, Super Bowl in 1st year.

 

Aaron Rodgers they had a team that was 13-3 the year before. Rodgers sat on the bench for 4 years. They were loaded...the first year he played they went 6-10. They stripped that team down and built around Rodgers strengths, next year 11-5 and Super Bowl in his 3rd year.

 

You build around your QB. This idea that all these teams were built up and these QBs were eased in, is flat wrong. You get your QB and you build the team.

 

 

 

Sorry but you're flat out wrong. The Seattle and Pittsburg D were both great at the time those two guys joined the team.

[bbedward]

 

Sorry but you're flat out wrong. The Seattle and Pittsburg D were both great at the time those two guys joined the team.

 

As they say, there's more than one way to carve a turkey, skin a cat, bake a cake. Teams aren't all built by the same model and multiple models work and have worked.

 

I'm just looking forward to ATL. I don't care who's behind center, I'm going to be happy if they win...

[Comeonman]

Is the FO just waiting to see what Hoyer can really do when Gordon comes back and spreads the D(hopefully)? Just a thought. Anyone else wondering what the FO is thinking/planning?

[WinstonLegthigh]

Is the FO just waiting to see what Hoyer can really do when Gordon comes back and spreads the D(hopefully)? Just a thought. Anyone else wondering what the FO is thinking/planning?

From what I have heard from the FO, I think they are pretty solidly behind manziel. Hoyer can change that with a big last 6 games and a playoff appearance.

[BaconHound]

I have been calling for Manziel to either "show or go" since the Jags loss but Hoyer has gotten this team in a place where the playoffs are still a possibility so he has to keep the driver's seat until the playoffs aren't a legit option. Before the season I predicted 4-12, at 3-3 I thought 7-9 and now I'll say 9-7 and for that reason Manziel has to stay seated. Hoyer still is what he is a game manager and I really don't want to see $14 miliion of cap space used on a game manager and an unknown.

 

So I'll eat a bit of crow but still have some reservations on how this free agent vs first rounder plays out.

[Sienn13]

So Stockon posts the second Hoyer has a bad game but is gone while they win? Dude, just go suck a fat baby's dick and give it up. I believe most people here are tired of your shit and agenda. Just walk away, your not gonna change anybody's opinion. If you are a true Browns fan you support who's playing right now, not who you want!