Westside Steve Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 By the way just what is the cause they support? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 By the way just what is the cause they support? WSS Um...ending abortion? Not sure how that's unclear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/17/in-nations-with-significant-muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/ Support their cause? Please Chris. Asking only positive or negative I found this one. I understand that a lot of folks would support the cause of limiting or eliminating abortion. Kind of a twist to see this guy in a positive light. That's a little like saying that most people support racial equalityou so everyone must support the looters arsonistso and rioters in Missouri. WSS You found a poll that says the overwhelming majority of Muslims is anti-ISIS. Top work. Though I'm not sure what's up with Pakistan's "don't know" stance. I'm struggling to find any such polls about anti-abortion violence, though it's obviously too early to get a handle on the latest one. Still, there are certainly people out there praising his actions. I can post links if you like to individual cases. Or I can pretend there were thousands of rednecks on the streets of Alabama cheering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Um...ending abortion? Not sure how that's unclear. It must have been. We are talking about the motives of Isis. At least that's what I was asking about. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 You found a poll that says the overwhelming majority of Muslims is anti-ISIS. Top work. Though I'm not sure what's up with Pakistan's "don't know" stance. I'm struggling to find any such polls about anti-abortion violence, though it's obviously too early to get a handle on the latest one. Still, there are certainly people out there praising his actions. I can post links if you like to individual cases. Or I can pretend there were thousands of rednecks on the streets of Alabama cheering And I didn't find the poll I'd seen on television about fighting age Muslims from places in the Middle East supporting terrorism. There are members of this board who are anti abortion but probably only one who would ever consider supporting shooting people. And he shares your religious beliefs. I think we all know who that is. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 It must have been. We are talking about the motives of Isis. At least that's what I was asking about. WSS OK fair enough. Motivations of ISIS that people have sympathy? Off the top of my head, foreign militaries dropping bombs on them; foreign powers trying desperately to gain controlling interest in their lands because of the natural resources; perceived (or real) anti-muslim rhetoric from western countries. To be honest, I have sympathy for people who were living happy enough lives under Saddam or whoever and now find themselves homeless because of British/American/other bombing. Then you see this group that starts 'fighting back' against the 'foreign invaders' and they're suddenly an attractive proposition - "come fight for us and we'll pay you, give you a home and a way to avenge your losses." Of course I understand why there's anti-western sentiment, and anyone who doesn't get that needs to have an objective think about things. That understanding shouldn't be confused with me supporting or condoning their actions, or me thinking that their leaders who are spreading the toxic messages are anything but the scum on the sole of the boot of hell. I also understand why people are anti-abortion, or vegetarian, or frankly most things. That doesn't mean I share those views, and that's the point I was making, that polls can be very misleading or open to misinterpretation. You could commission a poll with the question "do you condone, condemn or not have strong feelings about the recent attack on a planned parenthood clinic" and chances are, 99% would reply condemn. You could equally commission a poll asking " do you agree/disagree/neither with the motives of the recent attack on an anti-abortion clinic" and to be honest I'd be surprised if you got much less than 30-40% of people saying that agree with the motives. Then you can sensationalise the headline of "40% of americans support attacks on abortion clinics" because level-headed journalism doesn't sell copies (or generate clicks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 We already had a post comparing those killed in this attack to the total number of abortions...so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 OK fair enough. Motivations of ISIS that people have sympathy? Off the top of my head, foreign militaries dropping bombs on them; foreign powers trying desperately to gain controlling interest in their lands because of the natural resources; perceived (or real) anti-muslim rhetoric from western countries. To be honest, I have sympathy for people who were living happy enough lives under Saddam or whoever and now find themselves homeless because of British/American/other bombing. Then you see this group that starts 'fighting back' against the 'foreign invaders' and they're suddenly an attractive proposition - "come fight for us and we'll pay you, give you a home and a way to avenge your losses." Of course I understand why there's anti-western sentiment, and anyone who doesn't get that needs to have an objective think about things. That understanding shouldn't be confused with me supporting or condoning their actions, or me thinking that their leaders who are spreading the toxic messages are anything but the scum on the sole of the boot of hell. I also understand why people are anti-abortion, or vegetarian, or frankly most things. That doesn't mean I share those views, and that's the point I was making, that polls can be very misleading or open to misinterpretation. You could commission a poll with the question "do you condone, condemn or not have strong feelings about the recent attack on a planned parenthood clinic" and chances are, 99% would reply condemn. You could equally commission a poll asking " do you agree/disagree/neither with the motives of the recent attack on an anti-abortion clinic" and to be honest I'd be surprised if you got much less than 30-40% of people saying that agree with the motives. Then you can sensationalise the headline of "40% of americans support attacks on abortion clinics" because level-headed journalism doesn't sell copies (or generate clicks). Oh I get that Chris, I really do. I figure if I was in a hut with my kids within a couple miles of an al Qaeda operative and somebody blew up my child I fucking hate them no matter who they are. Is that the sense you get of the entire Isis organization? Frankly I am outraged by the attacks by the IRA in the past even though I guess I support peace and a united Ireland. Then again my ancestors came over here long ago so it's really not my business per se. So you think that's what's behind Isis? Just blind rage against colonialism or Sunnis or whoever they blame for their misfortunes? By the way I've been following the story of this gun man on MSNBC most of the morning. These guys are fighting as hard as they can to make this a Christians vs abortionist issue. They take that one sentence out of his rant, which even they admit are very lengthy. But that's the one they want to focus on. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Oh I get that Chris, I really do. I figure if I was in a hut with my kids within a couple miles of an al Qaeda operative and somebody blew up my child I fucking hate them no matter who they are. Is that the sense you get of the entire Isis organization? Frankly I am outraged by the attacks by the IRA in the past even though I guess I support peace and a united Ireland. Then again my ancestors came over here long ago so it's really not my business per se. So you think that's what's behind Isis? Just blind rage against colonialism or Sunnis or whoever they blame for their misfortunes? By the way I've been following the story of this gun man on MSNBC most of the morning. These guys are fighting as hard as they can to make this a Christians vs abortionist issue. They take that one sentence out of his rant, which even they admit are very lengthy. But that's the one they want to focus on. WSS For many of the rank and file of IS I think rage against the west is part of it, yes. But also IS giving some semblence of structure, of a way out of poverty (yes, partly induced by climate change). Also, the anti-muslim rhetoric will play a part in people coming from western countries. For the leaders, it's about power and utter bullshit beliefs and warped religious values. There is a distinction to be made between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Sounds pretty similar to the Nazi Party in Germany. Here's an organization that a disaffected young person can join and feel like a king. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Sounds pretty similar to the Nazi Party in Germany. Here's an organization that a disaffected young person can join and feel like a king. WSS A lot of similarities indeed, though military tactics are vastly different of course. And how many of the Germans actually thought, before they were brainwashed by endless propaganda, that jews were the scum of the earth, worth hideous deaths and experimentation? How many rank and file german soldiers were fully bought in to the nazi agenda, and how many were doing so because they were scared for their life and their families life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Sounds pretty similar to the Nazi Party in Germany. Here's an organization that a disaffected young person can join and feel like a king. WSS What we in the west have to understand is that a lot of young men in the middle east, not limited to those who have joined groups like ISIS, have become disaffected because a bomb landed on their house or a relatives house or someone they knew real well. Many have them can check the "all of the above" box to what I just described. And that's why you don't flippantly go to war. You risk doing more harm than good in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 The liberal media and elites were quick to pin the blame of the actions of this deranged individual on pro life people that speak out against abortion that "causes" people to commit these evil acts. Liberals time after time are shown they are not able to tolerate opposing views and try to shut down those who aren't in agreement with them. They know that they cannot stop free speech so they want to stigmatize those who call abortion wrong and murder as being somehow culpable when something like this happens. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/11/30/ted-cruz-seeks-to-make-a-point-when-reporters-confront-him-with-claims-about-planned-parenthood-shooter/ http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/11/29/liberal-actress-bette-midler-has-a-pretty-good-idea-whos-to-blame-for-planned-parenthood-shooting/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 What we in the west have to understand is that a lot of young men in the middle east, not limited to those who have joined groups like ISIS, have become disaffected because a bomb landed on their house or a relatives house or someone they knew real well. Many have them can check the "all of the above" box to what I just described. And that's why you don't flippantly go to war. You risk doing more harm than good in the long run. In all seriousness I think that's what the blame America first faction would like to believe. Pre-world war 2 Germany was certainly in the midst of depression and skyrocketing inflation. The Jews dropped no bombs, cause no problems and killed no one. The politicians needed someone to blame. The people of Germany freaked out and saw an organization that look like it could take over the world and they felt empowered. One might say the same about the young men in the grip of the depression joining the army to kill Japs and Krauts. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairHooker11 Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 The liberal media and elites were quick to pin the blame of the actions of this deranged individual on pro life people that speak out against abortion that "causes" people to commit these evil acts. Liberals time after time are shown they are not able to tolerate opposing views and try to shut down those who aren't in agreement with them. They know that they cannot stop free speech so they want to stigmatize those who call abortion wrong and murder as being somehow culpable when something like this happens. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/11/30/ted-cruz-seeks-to-make-a-point-when-reporters-confront-him-with-claims-about-planned-parenthood-shooter/ http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/11/29/liberal-actress-bette-midler-has-a-pretty-good-idea-whos-to-blame-for-planned-parenthood-shooting/ I know right? Its like its set on queue. will they say that the slain may have been Christian too? no because there is no "news" there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/260823/do-majority-young-french-muslims-support-isis-daniel-greenfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/opinion-polls.htm Not exactly a fair and balanced website but... WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairHooker11 Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 http://www.mediaite.com/online/cruz-the-overwhelming-majority-of-violent-criminals-are-democrats/ EXACTLY - Cruz: ‘The Overwhelming Majority of Violent Criminals Are Democrats’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 http://www.mediaite.com/online/cruz-the-overwhelming-majority-of-violent-criminals-are-democrats/ EXACTLY - Cruz: ‘The Overwhelming Majority of Violent Criminals Are Democrats’ Is that true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Is that true? You think otherwise? Why? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 You think otherwise? Why? WSS I never took a stance either way, I'm just asking if its true. Generally when you present something like that as fact, you should have data to back it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 In all seriousness I think that's what the blame America first faction would like to believe. Pre-world war 2 Germany was certainly in the midst of depression and skyrocketing inflation. The Jews dropped no bombs, cause no problems and killed no one. The politicians needed someone to blame. The people of Germany freaked out and saw an organization that look like it could take over the world and they felt empowered. One might say the same about the young men in the grip of the depression joining the army to kill Japs and Krauts. WSS Both situations are borne out of desperation. In Germany it was the massive economic depression that had people with money pushing wheelbarrows full of marks to go grocery shopping, and they were the lucky ones. For the rest, no jobs, no prospects, no homes even. Along comes an empowering movement, 'National Socialism', preying on these people's desperation to fulfill Hitler's own evil ends, and the rest is history. In Iraq and Syria it's a somewhat different cause, but the same end result: bombs got rid of the homes, drought got rid of the water for farming - no jobs, no prospects, no homes even. Along comes and empowering movement, ISIS, promising homes, money, a way to fight back against the people who destroyed their homes, a purpose. This movement is again preying on these people's desperation to fulfill al-Baghdadi's own evil ends, and the rest is the present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 I never took a stance either way, I'm just asking if its true. Generally when you present something like that as fact, you should have data to back it up Oh I don't have any data to back it up but I'd bet my house that it's 100% true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 It wouldn't shock me, but I doubt it's an 'overwhelming majority' maybe just a simple majority, and varies by state. That's just a guess though, I'd be interested in the statistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Not sure why it's relevant though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Jail survey: 7 in 10 felons register as Democrats A new study of how criminals vote found that most convicts register Democratic, a key reason in why liberal lawmakers and governors are eager for them to get back into the voting booth after their release. “Democrats would benefit from additional ex-felon participation,” said the authoritative study in The Annals of the American Academy of Political and Social Science. The authors, professors from the University of Pennsylvania and Stanford University, found that in some states, felons register Democratic by more than six-to-one. In New York, for example, 61.5 percent of convicts are Democrats, just 9 percent Republican. They also cited a study that found 73 percent of convicts who turn out for presidential elections would vote Democrat. But despite recent moves in states to notify convicts that they can vote again, the study finds little evidence that they do, undercutting Democratic efforts to get them to the polls. http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/jail-survey-nearly-34-felons-register-as-democrats/article/2541412 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Yeah I read that one as well, but it only talks about felons, not the type of crime. The statement's about violence crime. I'll happy accept that most petty felons are pro-democrat because they're the ones saying we need to stop jailing people for relatively petty crimes, where the republicans are all about "lock 'em up" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Yes, I go out on a limb and guess (no I don't have a poll to back it up) that most people who break the law, whether it's rape and murder or tearing the tags labeled 'do not remove under penalty of law' from a pillow,, no matter what that law might be, would support the guy that doesn't want to punish him for it. Just wild speculation. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Yes, I go out on a limb and guess (no I don't have a poll to back it up) that most people who break the law, whether it's rape and murder or tearing the tags labeled 'do not remove under penalty of law' from a pillow,, no matter what that law might be, would support the guy that doesn't want to punish him for it. Just wild speculation. WSS Of course. Your prisons house more people than the rest of the western world put together, and there's a whole bunch there because of crimes that have no bearing on society, yet the 'lock 'em up' mentality, coupled with the monetisation of prisons mean that they're there anyway, in overcrowded prisons. Anyway, side rant aside, the criminals that would be decriminalised are typically not the violent criminals that Ted Cruz is talking about, so we can set that kind of pointlessness aside for now. Both republicans and democrats will agree that rapists, murderers etc should be locked up. My guess is that the ratio of democrat to republican isn't huge in either direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Fair enough. What crimes would you wipe off the book if you were the king of America? Personally I don't think simple possession of weed really amounts to a large percentage of the prison population. Here's an idea. Divide crimes into 3 categories bad, not so bad and hardly bad at all. Legalize the bottom third immediately execute the top third, force the middle third to work as slave labor in a government windmill and solar panel factory. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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