Mark O Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 I'm sure it was a bitter pill for Jimma to swallow, to have to admit he fucked up hiring Pettine, Farmer, or both. Combine too little experience, with an impatient fan base and the writing is on the wall. We'll be doing this same process again in 2 years or less. Eventually we have to hire the right guy. Can't keep making the wrong decision forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darubes Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 I would go so far as to say to Mr Haslam please sell the team. The head man is ultimately responsible for this mess. He has the final say on who is hired. He is the one who hired Farmer and Pettine. Pettine is clearly over his head as a head coach.He makes me yearn for Pat Shurmur the way he (Pettine ) manages the clock. Farmer has been an unmitigated disaster as a GM from Bowe to first round busts. I've been a fan of this team all my life from the 50s on and this is as low as I can remember.You can have fans pissed off and bitching but when apathy sets in you are in trouble and apathy is here with our fan base.I know Haslam won't feel his cash cow but I yearn for someone who cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 If it's "just" O'Neil I'm gonna be pissed, because he should've been fired long before today, and who knows how different things would be.... But Pettine refused to even acknowledge there was a problem, much less fire his butt buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 I don't think cleaning house is necessary. But a new Oline coach in sync with Flip and the offensive philosophy, coupled with passionate D cord who wouldn't be a 'yes man' to Pettine ( not that I'm saying O'Neil is, I just have a feeling) might do this team a world of good. Preferably a coordinator not married to pigeon holing his players into specific roles/assignments. Edit. An apology for drafting Johnny would be nice as well. From Haslam, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Eventually we have to hire the right guy. Can't keep making the wrong decision forever.Sure, that inexperience also applies to the owner. Unfortunately, the guy in Haslam's ear is Alec Scheiner. His experience is in operations, not personell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Elaborate, please. You can't discredit an opinion about the quality of Browns' players by claiming "the best players aren't playing." You're welcome... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Shelton's rookie season is almost identical to Haloti Ngata's This gave me an actual belly laugh.......... Maybe by '"identical" you meant "they both played on the defensive side of the ball"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 That's wonderful, but I couldn't give a fuck less about your disagreement, because it's wrong. My contention is that Farmer was hired to do one thing - pull the best talent he could at the positions we picked, without mortgaging the future. Pettine is on record claiming he wanted the Browns identity to be a run first team with a strong defense that bullied opponents. Farmer spent money on a former Pro Bowl LB, former Pro Bowl CB, and former Pro Bowl FS - all from proven winning franchises in order to help bring both talent and a winning mentality. Now we hear that the proven LB has been asked by our coaching staff to play 25 lbs lighter than he had in his entire career? That's not a Farmer problem, that's a Pettine problem. OK, grant you that. But the operative word is "former". Traded quality for experience. Personally, I'd like to have Ward and Skrine back Pettine asked for versatility among his front seven. Farmer brought in Starks, who is known as possibly the most versatile defensive lineman of the past 5-10 years. He has excelled at both interior line and defensive end, making a Pro Bowl at each position. Yet he's invisible here. Once again - a Pettine problem, not a Farmer problem. all his experience cost us a game. Pettine wanted a lock down CB to help run his defense. Farmer took possibly the top cover corner in the draft. And, despite the concern that he had confidence issues in college, Pettine piled on him and relegated him to backup KR duties almost immediately. Once again, a Pettine problem, not a Farmer problem. I want to see what he can do when he's de-concussed. Our offensive line fell off of a cliff after Mack's injury, so Farmer drafted an offensive lineman who could play both center and tackle at a high level. Erving finally sees the field 10 games into the season...at guard. Once again, not a Farmer problem. Erving played so poorly, Pettine benched him today. Our defense was ill suited to stop the run, getting gashed between the tackles for an inordinate YPC last year, so Farmer invested in the top interior defensive lineman in the league. Shelton's rookie season is almost identical to Haloti Ngata's...yet fans are calling for his head because they fundamentally don't understand how a 3-4 defense is run. I fundamentally don't understand how Farmer traded away all our d-line depth and talent either. Flip wanted to continue the ZBS that Shanahan implemented, so Farmer got THE best zone scheme runningback in the entire draft. And he's been underutilized by the coaching staff. Once again, not a Farmer problem. Is Duke an every down back though? If you want to knock Bowe, go ahead. That was a bad acquisition. But don't try to come here with weak shit reasoning that "our first rounders are bad boo hoo". I- and a lot of other guys who have been watching Browns football for 50+ years are saying Farmer can't be held totally blameless for this mess we're currently in. Yeah- and I AM going to hold Farm Boy responsible for making a $9 million mistake bringing in a washed up Bowe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 the TCPO rally cry of fire everyone. heard that before. probably more than once. grab the torches and pitchforks cuz god dammit things aren't going his way. donald trump rep nominee candidate blowhard<TCPO fire the coaches cuz i know what's right and everyone else doesn't troll. yet i guarantee he bought into the holmgren regime (everyone raise your hands on that side of the table that did), drooled over peyton hillis then loved the TR pick, thought weeden would be great.................. do us all a favor couch and stick to what you know best, throwing drunk 120 lb. frat boys out of the bars at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 The only thing I don't like about the Bowe pickup is the pricetag. We had a need for a player like him. I think/hope Farmer is smart enough to go House of Cards on this thing and earn Haslam's trust, positioning himself to be kept while Pettine fired. He seems sharp like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Your most perplexing post ever, war... At any price Bowe has been a waste of a roster spot... so would have been any player "like him". And while I have never watched House of Cards, I'm guessing you are encouraging no-holds-barred self-preservation? Just what is needed in a GM... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal312 Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Hawkins, Gabriel, Bowe and Pryor were inactive. That left them a little thin today. Here is my lineup for next week: Manziel, Darius Jennings, Pryor, Crowell, Barnidge, Cam Erving playing out of position is a waste of time. Shelton is still adjusting but I have hopes for him. Play Gilbert, Gaines, Orchard, Gipson, Is Winston still on the team? Thank the front office for waiting until week 14 to play Manziel with a depleted receiving Corp. Johnny will improvise which is what made Russell Wilson so damn good. Difference is Wilson has a running game. Thomas Rawl is lighting up and great on my fantasy team My estimate is the Meeting with Haslam will discuss who plays and who they should,place on IR for the remainder of the miserable season. It's stupid to keep these guys active when they're clearly not fit to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 It's a show about two Machiavellian a-holes positioning themselves for power. At least one of our guys is about to get fired. I would like to know that the one I like will be able to keep his job, and I think knowing how to get Jimmy's trust to a higher degree than the other guy is going to get important. I'm not saying it's a great quality for a GM per se, but it is a great quality for a guy in this position. And please don't downgrade the perplexingness of my posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Just throwing a missing name out. ST Chris Tabor has been here since 2011. He maybe the guy if Pet walks the plank. The only NFL unit we have.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Personal take - Farmer, Pettine and O'Neil are gone at the bear minimum, along with the defensive staff. Not just because of the record, but because of the self-evident staring contest between them over some of the players Farmer insists on keeping around and Pettine insists aren't good enough - Bowe, Winston & Gilbert at least. That is high school shit, and Haslam will want no part of it. As to who replaces them, no idea, but it's unlikely we'll get any big name coaches - why would we? People like Gruden or Dungy or the other names being floated about can have their pick of franchises - the dolphins are searching and at least have a semblance of a franchise QB; the eagles seem destined to part ways with kelly and have some legitimate top-class talent in Murray, Alonso etc; Chargers - you've got rivers; Rams - a D and running game; Giants - Eli and OBJ. Only the 49ers are as talentless as we appear to be. Where that leaves Flip, I don't know. He seems a seriously good QB coach who's trying his best to be an OC but his inability to get anything going in the run game is probably going to cost him his job in a house-cleaning. He's not soooo good that we *must* keep him at all costs, and a new coach will want his own staff. The good news is that the 49ers are likely the only other team looking at taking a QB high, so we can probably wait and still get one of the top two or three prospects later on. Yay. Leading nicely on to the front office - Farmer is pretty much gone, I expect. No idea who will be coming in, but in both cases, somewhere like Carolina might be a good place to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soju Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Jimmy needs to fire both Pettine and Farmer, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodilobo Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 It would be an act of mercy to fire Pettine now. His body language says it all. He's a beaten man, with nowhere to turn....he probably wants out....the sooner the better. While firing him today will help him, I'm not sure what good it will do for the Browns. You really have to wonder with Pettine....no receivers over 4'-11" (exaggerating a little )...and most injured, but he deactivates Bowe and Pryor for the game???...WTF??!! Maybe he's been ordered to lose for the draft pick??...who knows. If Pettine were a real HC, he would be yelling and screaming at these players...trying to get more out of them. He is soft spoken, walks with his head down...he should be really pissed off at his ass. coaches and the players. He needs to go find a nice high school team to coach. We need a young Marty, or Bellichick, or someone that will light a fire under the asses of these freeloading pricks.....imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 We need a young Marty, or Bellichick, or someone that will light a fire under the asses of these freeloading pricks.....imho. Well Said period. Bellichick taught Saban & Sean Payton just that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 I can see Oneil being axed at this point. Probably should have happened 2-3 games ago. As for Pettine, I don't really see the point at this time. I guess the only advantage is that Haslam could activly be seeking another coach. As long as Pettine is around, he can't do that. I suppose that Scheiner is putting a few names together in the background, but as long as Pettine is still around, you can't really start to reach out to people. And I would geuss that Scheiner is looking more at GM candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suomi Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 I'm honestly curious because I've watched it for 35 years here in Cleveland, particularly since coming back to the NFL. What could Haslem do? So many want nothing except to win "now" and that simpy isn't going to happen. To fix this cluster-fuck will take many years and it seems like the majority of Browns fans and media simply wouldn't tolerate that. The media is a joke and the fans are so unrealistic I'm not sure there is anything he could do.Absolutely correct. Well said. Browns fans deserve much better. They're not going get it from this squad - either from the players or the coaches. Problem is that this organization won't turn it around any time soon - fans should be prepared for at least another five losing seasons and no playoffs. Are you prepared to wait for that to happen? Are you ready to slog through at least five years of mediocrity, holding out hope for a turnaround? Sadly, the current and future prospects of this team are, at best, poor. For a proud and loyal fan base that has suffered through the last two decades this is simply unacceptable. In the words of Sweet Brown, "Ain't nobody got time for that". This team, and its management, deserves to play to an empty house for the remainder of this season. And future seasons. Until the fans get what they deserve: a legitimate, winning NFL team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren15 Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Absolutely correct. Well said. Browns fans deserve much better. They're not going get it from this squad - either from the players or the coaches. Problem is that this organization won't turn it around any time soon - fans should be prepared for at least another five losing seasons and no playoffs. Are you prepared to wait for that to happen? Are you ready to slog through at least five years of mediocrity, holding out hope for a turnaround? Sadly, the current and future prospects of this team are, at best, poor. For a proud and loyal fan base that has suffered through the last two decades this is simply unacceptable. In the words of Sweet Brown, "Ain't nobody got time for that". This team, and its management, deserves to play to an empty house for the remainder of this season. And future seasons. Until the fans get what they deserve: a legitimate, winning NFL team. Well tickets for the 49rs game are now less expensive than a big mac meal ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Just heard it. Haslam did NOT tell Pett that he will finish the season as coach. If not fired this week.... He will now be coaching for his job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 I'm honestly curious because I've watched it for 35 years here in Cleveland, particularly since coming back to the NFL. What could Haslem do? So many want nothing except to win "now" and that simpy isn't going to happen. To fix this cluster-fuck will take many years and it seems like the majority of Browns fans and media simply wouldn't tolerate that. The media is a joke and the fans are so unrealistic I'm not sure there is anything he could do. Yes you're correct but in order to start fixing anything you have to start taking steps in the right direction. Have you seen anything this year that indicates that they're doing that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Kuharich is a good-to-great replacement already on the staff as the #2 to Farmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 This bullshit ALL comes from the top. Jimmy wants to run the show like a Looney Tunes cartoon. Maybe hire Eric Cartman then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Yes you're correct but in order to start fixing anything you have to start taking steps in the right direction. Have you seen anything this year that indicates that they're doing that? Agreed. If we'd seen anything resembling progress, most people would have been happy, even if we ended with only 5-6 wins. A top-10 D and a solid running game, losing generally by a score and being competitive, would have been progress. We've seen not just a step backwards, but a turn and sprint in the other direction - if only our DBs could do the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted December 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 This gave me an actual belly laugh.......... Maybe by '"identical" you meant "they both played on the defensive side of the ball"? Why don't you look at the stats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 We can't fire Pettine during the season for the sole reason that we don't have ANYONE on the staff that can take over head coaching duties. Nobody on the staff has that kind of experience, and we'd be firing Pettine just to fire him. Does he deserve blame for this year? Sure he does, but he doesn't deserve all of it. Look at our roster, and tell me what he's supposed to do with this talent level. At one point during the game, one of the announcers made the comment that two of the Bengals' first or second round players from the last year or two don't even start, and it's not because they suck. It's because their roster is so completely loaded that they can draft for DEPTH. How sick is that? I believe the announcer also said the Bengals have one of the deepest and most complete rosters from top to bottom in the league. Add in the fact that they have multiple years of continuity, and it's not surprise they are good every year. I read that Farmer has had four first round draft picks, and he has yet to take one that makes an impact on our team. That's almost impossible. The coaches can say what they want to about Shelton "doing what they ask him to do", but the guy hasn't shown me ANYTHING. I watched him specifically against the Bengals and he got his ass whipped multiple times. Cameron Erving? Look, as I've stated before, I'm a diehard FSU fan and an alum, but this guy is getting his ass blown apart on almost EVERY PLAY. I realize he's a rookie, and I also realize that he has the least amount of experience at guard, but holy cow! Geno Adkins is a devastating player, I know this, but he was throwing Erving around so bad yesterday it wasn't funny. Yes, Pettine deserves blame. How much I don't know because he can only do so much with what he has. Look at who Austin was throwing the ball to. Look at how much time he had. How many times did the middle of the pocket get exploded by the SAME DAMN STUNT play? We're going to have the number one pick this year, and that's something I find hard to believe. In typical Cleveland fashion, there isn't a consensus #1 guy out there that is going to come in and really makeover this franchise. We have some many talent gaps that one player can't do it all, and even if there WAS the holy grail of QB's, he STILL wouldn't have anyone to throw to, and he wouldn't have a running back. And that's just on offense. Defense is a whole other matter, and we are so talent deprived at OLB it isn't even funny. In short, we're a mess. And there is no quick fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 And Erving is being asked to play in the one position he never practiced and is not built for. Move Erving to T and then let's see how bad he is. he's still going to be bad, you've got to know that right? Do you think he would have fared any better out there at tackle against Michael Johnson? How bout Mario Williams? Those guys would pee on him just as much as Peko and Atkins did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Im a "dont fire Pettine guy" too..... I do agree that the coaching is a big part of the problem and there's probably a communication breakdown between the top and the players. ....so the staff needs to be upgraded. Though, Im leaning toward making changes with the position coaches, and maybe coordinators, before I go after Pettine.....who really is just the guy who manages the coaches...... If you look at out position Coaches, they are painfully inexperienced.(just like the guys at the top)...none of them have any NFL experience and most are in new roles here. So, for example, we have a guy coaching our OLB's who played QB in College and has zero NFL coaching experience.....and you know what?.....our OLB's suck and seem lost......and this theme continues.....Our OL coach was thrust into his position because the other one was fired(and drunk) and he has zero NFL experience....he was "supposed" to be an asst, but now has the whole ball of wax, yet he has zero experience.....and, oddly, its the O line and OLB's that are struggling greatly.... So...Id say these types of guys are more likely to be the reasons for poor coaching, than Pettine.....Of course, Pettine is responsible for assembling a staff....and seems to have failed in that respect....but, I also know he had literally no one to pick from. So, the owner or GM really need to consider if Pettine is the problem, of if his staff is.......I get that the mob is lined up with their torches and pitch forks ready to hang someone....Im just hoping they dont string up the wrong guy.....again.....(or too many guys, just to make sure they get the right one)... I also worry that these "kids" we have as Coaches really arent up to the task of developing new talent....hech, they are rookies themselves and also trying to learn a new job....and anybody learning a new job struggles a bit, so how are they supposed to be teaching, when they are still focused on learning?? So....If Im Haslem.....here's what Im doing... Step 1, Im getting Pettine to offer an honest evaluation of his staff and then we are going out and getting some REAL NFL coaches to replace the kids....especially on Defense, which has the most glaring Coaching needs in terms of experience..... Im getting a quality LB Coach, RB coach, OL coach, DC and OC.....with experience....no more "Learning as we go".....plus as many other experienced coaches as Jimmys money can buy.... Step 2, Im getting after Farmer about the talent, which is seriously lacking. No coach is gonna win too many games with this team. Not a one. So, there has to be an ultimatum about acquiring talent and getting it properly developed and on to the field....I would also expect better control with the check book, because we have some "less than talented" players making a shit pile of money.....Id be mad to have the highest paid defense, which is nowhere even close to the most talented..... Step 3....Im getting rid of a lot of dead weight. Right away too. We have some guys who are NOT buying into the system and, by doing this, are hurting the team. And we have some guys who are just a negative drain on everybody and everything associated with the team. Guys like Manziel, Bowe, Gordon, etc have all created massive negativity and bad bad public relations, while bringing us very little on the positive side or on the field....and it's been 100% on Pettine to deal with it....both in having to explain over and over why they suck and why they dont play....having to be their coach AND babysitter......and having to deal with all their issues and problems in the press,,,,,,all while Farmer hides in his office, as if HE wasnt the reason they are here..... Step 4....Im STILL getting rid of dead weight....in terms of non-performing players.....Time to dump the guys who just arent good. Weve seen enough to know that guys like Mingo, Kruger & Bowe arent worth their paycheck....so get em outta here already.....we need players and these guys arent bringing that. PLUS, some of these guys are not helping the team with their attitudes and probably cause a lot of negative thinking & feelings in the locker room....time to chop ANYBODY who's not 100% in or who plays like shit...... I think this would be a more reasonable approach to fixing some of what ails this team......and honestly believe if they just fire everybody, we will be right back in the exact same position soon enough. No matter who the new coach is, he will have similar problems to Pettine, in assembling his staff.....and, everyone will see, that he will not win with the group we have in there now.... So....if Im firing people....its names like DeLeone, Montgomery, Fleury, Driesbach, Hafley.....and yes, Oneill & Flip are at risk too....though, if their egos would allow, I might just demote those 2 and keep em on staff at positions that are a bit more suitable to their skills and experience.... Anyhow.....I know this will be unpopular and you all are pretty set on hanging somebody.....but hopefully, Haslem doesnt have a torch and is taking a calmer, more reasonable approach to the next step.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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