Clinton says Isis uses Trump in recruiting videos, but Isis actually uses Bill Clinton and Obama

[bbedward]

Again this isn't about you. This is about the poor and how they could not be poor anymore.

Right, they just have to join the military or go to trade school. Or have a really good idea and get rich.

 

People should be able to choose whatever career they want they're good at and work towards it without crippling themselves for 10 years.

 

In most developed countries, they can.

 

Degrees are a necessity in most business fields, engineering fields, medical fields, education fields. They get 10 applicants they won't look at the one without a degree.

 

Sure, if somebody is a "General Education" major then fuck em, but otherwise we have obvious flaws with the way things are and need to fix them

[gftChris]

Well, this got out of hand pretty quickly. And I think your both right to some degree, FWIW.

 

People are definitely sold the idea of going to college, getting a well paying job and having a nice life, as a right for them. I was, and it took me a long time to realise it's not the case. I would strongly advise young people to seriously consider a career in a skilled trade. There is a desperate shortage of them here, and I'm guessing everywhere in the developed world (jobs being filled by a lot of immigrants btw), and you can make good money. Not Hedge Fund CEO, two boats and five holiday homes money, but that's a pipe dream anyway. You can easily earn well over the national average, and by the time you've got 10 years experience, probably double. Good enough for most people I'd imagine.

 

On the flip side, we absolutely should not be telling people that college is only for rich people, or that it's pointless to go to college. Many people are like myself - academically bright, but in terms of manual skills, shall we say 'lacking' - yet you want to push them to trades or the military just because they weren't born to rich parents?

 

People all have skill sets, and they all differ. For some, college is necessary to get where they want to (and are able to) go. For others, it's redundant.

[The Cysko Kid]

The point I'm attempting to make about college is that you're turning out 500,000 IT guys a year when there is demand but not that much demand. One IT guy can handle a lot of workload. I go to these huge data centers and they're manned by 3 guys. Total.

[gftChris]

The point I'm attempting to make about college is that you're turning out 500,000 it guys a year when there is demand but not that much demand. One IT guy can handle a lot of workload. I go to these huge data centers and they're manned by 3 guys. Total.

I agree, but the problem is more complicated than just telling people not to study. Other factors such as job creation, entry standards of courses, value of courses are also relevant.

 

The labour government here when I was young wanted 50% of people to go to university, regardless of whether there were going to be jobs for them or not. The result now is a surplus of unemployed 'skilled' graduates and a dearth of skilled tradesmen and women.

 

But, to say you can't go to university because you can't afford it is wrong. We should be raising the entry standards and making it free, along with eliminating a lot of courses. Seriously, take a look at some of the college prospectuses and tell me you wouldn't just cut 30% on the spot.

[The Cysko Kid]

No I agree with that to some degree. But instead of being college it would then just be advanced job training. Sort of like apprenticeship.

 

 

Take all the stupid shit like Greek life and extracurriculars out of college and then make it free. But it shouldn't be free to just fuck around for 8 years looking for a major.

[gftChris]

I would also be in favour of free apprenticeships for the skilled jobs.

[The Cysko Kid]

Really apprenticeships should make a comeback and college should only be offered for master level advancement. That would solve the problem of people being turned out of school with an incredibly expensive entry level skill degree and not enough experience to get an entry level job.

[The Cysko Kid]

And get rid of these god damn predatory bullshit colleges like itt tech and Bryant and Stratton and university of Phoenix that turn people out unqualified with a toilet paper degree and a mountain of debt.

[bbedward]

And get rid of these god damn predatory bullshit colleges like itt tech and Bryant and Stratton and university of Phoenix that turn people out unqualified with a toilet paper degree and a mountain of debt.

 

We need to get rid of politicians like Hillary Clinton in order for that to happen. Her husband received a $1M salary from a for-profit college for a few years.

 

But I agree, you pay whatever thousands of dollars for ITT Tech and then you end up with a job making $10/hr.

 

---

 

Where I went to college the entire engineering program had a mandatory 1-year co-op program (Toledo, Cincinnati also has the same thing)

 

Basically you spend 1 fall semester working full-time, 1 spring semester working full time, and 1 summer semester working full time (and you get credits for it). 95% or some odd # of people I think graduate with a job ready to go out of the gate.

 

That wouldn't be a bad road, to force work experience as a requirement to graduate in a more wide-spread fashion. Then you wouldn't have all the people sitting around crying "I want a job but they want experience!"

 

Because as it sits internships being optional, people generally choose the bare minimum and don't pursue any.

 

(I think I learned more in 1-year working full time than I learned in 4/5 years of school, but that's just me - also my spare time work and such I taught myself a lot more than the average graduate)

[Westside Steve]

Grants and subsidies are one of the biggest reasons a college education is ridiculously expensive. I guarantee you that if you pay me 500 bucks for a 30 minute guitar lesson I'll figure out something you're stupid ass kid can play, as long as I don't have to guarantee he'll be a professional musician.

 

WSS

[LogicIsForSquares]

Grants and subsidies are one of the biggest reasons a college education is ridiculously expensive. I guarantee you that if you pay me 500 bucks for a 30 minute guitar lesson I'll figure out something you're stupid ass kid can play, as long as I don't have to guarantee he'll be a professional musician.

 

WSS

That has been the discussion for awhile. Colleges and universities increase the cost to match the max that fed loaning will pay. I guarantee if they said, we will pay X amount of dollars lower than we did before, take it or leave it, the universities would gladly take it. Subsidies are what drive up the cost of college education.

[gftChris]

That has been the discussion for awhile. Colleges and universities increase the cost to match the max that fed loaning will pay. I guarantee if they said, we will pay X amount of dollars lower than we did before, take it or leave it, the universities would gladly take it. Subsidies are what drive up the cost of college education.

Sort of. As it stands, colleges are just cash cows, because people will pay whatever it takes. If it were free, and the government negotiated a per-student stipend, you'd soon find a lot of the cash cow attitude colleges would shut down, and your problem of oversupply would also disappear...

[bbedward]

More government regulation on public universities probably needs to happen.

 

Look at UAkron's recent controversy.

 

They all keep wasting more and more money and jacking up tuition

 

We have to do something about it, other countries have figured it out.

[The Cysko Kid]

What linux distribution do you use eds

[bbedward]

What linux distribution do you use eds

In my younger days I was pretty big into gentoo and a user rep and doing zen kernel and such.

 

I've used all the major ones over the years (at work we use oracle linux which is redhat based)

 

Nowadays my favorite is probably Arch or Debian, but I'm using fedora at the moment. It's nice not having to worry about manually configuring everything and having all you need out of the box. Debian is easy, but I always have problems with the rolling release versions like testing - stable ones are too old

 

I also like the clean gnome 3, don't like unity or cinnamon too much.

[MLD Woody]

This thread really took off from "Woody is a dumb kid".

 

 

Almost every plant I've worked in was in a bad position with skilled trades. In my plant now, 50% could retire today and the other 50% could retire within 5 years. There is no new young talent.

 

As with "too many IT majors coming out of college" or whatever, that's mostly on the student. You should research the job prospects before picking a major. You should do what you can to boost your resume. You should go to a better/ more well known school (this s where the high cost argument comes in).

[The Cysko Kid]

In my younger days I was pretty big into gentoo and a user rep and doing zen kernel and such.

 

I've used all the major ones over the years (at work we use oracle linux which is redhat based)

 

Nowadays my favorite is probably Arch or Debian, but I'm using fedora at the moment. It's nice not having to worry about manually configuring everything and having all you need out of the box. Debian is easy, but I always have problems with the rolling release versions like testing - stable ones are too old

 

I also like the clean gnome 3, don't like unity or cinnamon too much.

I use openSUSE mostly. I like KDE over most desktop environments although I haven't used Gnome3. I generally set people up with linux mint 17 using cinnamon because it's an easy switch over from windows. I don't like unity because of the lack of customization although ubuntu based (like mint) seem to have the best support.

[The Cysko Kid]

This thread really took off from "Woody is a dumb kid".

 

 

Almost every plant I've worked in was in a bad position with skilled trades. In my plant now, 50% could retire today and the other 50% could retire within 5 years. There is no new young talent.

 

As with "too many IT majors coming out of college" or whatever, that's mostly on the student. You should research the job prospects before picking a major. You should do what you can to boost your resume. You should go to a better/ more well known school (this s where the high cost argument comes in).

That's part of my whole larger argument. Most kids these days seem to believe trades are beneath them which is subliminally reinforced all the time and only a job in IT (or whatever) will do. Yeah, well that bubble is going to burst.

[bbedward]

I use openSUSE mostly. I like KDE over most desktop environments although I haven't used Gnome3. I generally set people up with linux mint 17 using cinnamon because it's an easy switch over from windows. I don't like unity because of the lack of customization although ubuntu based (like mint) seem to have the best support.

 

I like gnome3 because of a lot of the keyboard shortcuts and stuff you can do, but it's definitely a different type of experience coming from something like windows. Cinnamon is nice being lightweight,fast, customizable. KDE turned me off because most of the applications I used were built with GTK and it was clunky running both QT and GTK applications. That may have changed though, I never used KDE 5. Nor do I really care about my applications much anymore - my IDEs are java and I use more web based apps for music, office and such.

 

No idea about suse anymore, last time I used it was when they had like 6 CDs or DVDs that were loaded with all of the applications - and instead of using the internet for package management repositories you used the CD/DVD as the source.

 

The way I work is very keyboard-driven. I don't really point and click so much just because I'm much more productive that way. I use bash/vim for literally everything and using windows cripples my productivity because of it.

[The Cysko Kid]

Kde 5 is my shit. I love plasma. It's important to me that my desktop look amazing and when people see it they go what the fuck is that? I run windows in a virtual machine only for playing old games and occasionally connecting to other hardware.

[gftChris]

Linux? I haven't used that in,oh, a very, very long time now...

[The Cysko Kid]

It's much less ridiculously unfriendly than it used to be

[gftChris]

I never did any of the hard-core OS work the necessitated a Unix system, and it was awful for gaming, so I switched back to Windows.

 

Had to use it at uni for a bit, that was red hat and the penguin one.

 

Part time developer anyway, no need for Unix or Linux.

[MLD Woody]

That's part of my whole larger argument. Most kids these days seem to believe trades are beneath them which is subliminally reinforced all the time and only a job in IT (or whatever) will do. Yeah, well that bubble is going to burst.

 

Who the hell wants to be in IT?

[MLD Woody]

I... uh... did Java in AP Comp Sci and C++ as a freshman at Michigan in the "advanced" intro programming class (you took Comp Sci in HS basically)

 

As an ME though, we did some stuff in Matlab now and then, if that counts.

 

 

 

No idea what any of you are talking about though haha

[Westside Steve]

This thread really took off from "Woody is a dumb kid".

 

On the other hand many unrelated threads eventually end up there so you've got that going for you.

 

WSS

[gftChris]

I... uh... did Java in AP Comp Sci and C++ as a freshman at Michigan in the "advanced" intro programming class (you took Comp Sci in HS basically)

 

As an ME though, we did some stuff in Matlab now and then, if that counts.

 

 

 

No idea what any of you are talking about though haha

You'll understand when you get older and have more life experience...

[MLD Woody]

You'll understand when you get older and have more life experience...

Lazy response!

 

 

(I like my field. Not looking to become a programmer. Sounds like too much sitting)

[bbedward]

Lazy response!

 

 

(I like my field. Not looking to become a programmer. Sounds like too much sitting)

I have a comfortable chair

[gftChris]

I have a comfortable chair

Office chairs are a rip off. Mine is very comfy, but near a thousand pounds.