wargograw Posted November 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Fair enough. Sumlin deserves the rest of the season but I think if he loses another game he should get gone. His recruiting sucks. Next few years will be pretty rough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Fair enough. Sumlin deserves the rest of the season but I think if he loses another game he should get gone. His recruiting sucks. Next few years will be pretty rough. I think we can agree to disagree on Sumlin. This is the roughest division in all college ball. Every year every coach in it other than Saban is on the hot seat. And each of those teams tear each other up physically trying to keep their heads above water. Sumlin has made changes in coaching that were needed, but the effect does not happen overnight. Auburn wanted to can Gus, Miles was canned and Bulimia/Freezer have been treading water. Not only that but we are now down to our 4th string QB (a walkon)when you include the two quitters. Plus the best player in college ball is a one-legged man still trying to help his team. That's just too much to ask from any HC in the SEC West. It could be worse. We could have Charlie saving his job year after year with wins over key rivals while giving poor overall results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 I wouldn't take the kid in any round. Lots of talent but way too volatile and I think his receivers make a lot of his plays for him. I like his moxie but he's a little too much of a gangster. I could excuse anything until he jumped into a brawl on the field during his little brother's high school game. What an idiot. That may be what I would like about him. The guy has fire in the belly. How much fire in the belly do you see among current Browns players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 That may be what I would like about him. The guy has fire in the belly. How much fire in the belly do you see among current Browns players? "I think his draft stock was mid-to-late round prior to this week, but I'll be surprised if he's anything other than a seventh-round pick after this unfortunate injury. Every NFL evaluator I've talked to viewed him as a backup at the next level. That was prior to this injury." The guy is just not very good, by most accounts, and appears to be a jackass to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Anyway, we'll hopefully know by season's end if we're happy to move in to 2017 with Cody Kessler as our starting QB, along with Josh McCown as his backup. And what a wonderful state of affairs that would be, not actually drafting a QB in the first round for three whole years in a row! It would mean we can focus on actually building a team around a guy who, at the very least, can allow us to win games, not hold us back with turnovers and poor decisions. It means we can go get an edge presence - Garrett or Allen maybe - at the top. We can get a safety, a corner, an offensive lineman, and still not be out of the first 45 picks or so. Hitting on those four picks is very doable, and would basically turn this franchise around. We would have a core of young talent on D to go with a competent O that's not always playing from behind. It would be wonderful, and I'm sold on Kessler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 "I think his draft stock was mid-to-late round prior to this week, but I'll be surprised if he's anything other than a seventh-round pick after this unfortunate injury. Every NFL evaluator I've talked to viewed him as a backup at the next level. That was prior to this injury." The guy is just not very good, by most accounts, and appears to be a jackass to boot. CBS have him as the 101st best overall prospect, meaning 3rd/4th round....and 7th best QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 CBS have him as the 101st best overall prospect, meaning 3rd/4th round....and 7th best QB. That's pretty mid round, and was before his injury I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 That's pretty mid round, and was before his injury I believe. They have it that way right now....and they acknowledge the injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 I'm pretty sold on Kessler as well. He's not perfect, but when you look at what he CAN do at this time, I believe it's a pretty good situation. What he CAN do is deliver the ball with accuracy. Anyone who doesn't think that's important needs to watch a Jaguars game and see Bortles spray the ball all over the place. Even when he had a bunch of TD's last year, he still turned it over and missed receivers. Cody can also move well inside the pocket while keeping his head down the field. That looping throw to Ricardo Louis over the head of two defenders is a great example. The main problem with Cody, other than not winning (not his fault last week...obviously) is the fact he doesn't hit the long ball. We've heard ALL about it this week, and it's something we've been talking about for a while. The difference now is that Hue Jackson actually brought it up. I wasn't so sure this was a good decision, as we don't want to Cody to FORCE the ball down the field and turn it over. If you think our defense is bad NOW, just wait and see what happens if we start having some turnovers. Anyways, Cody already knows he has to hit the long ball, and he gave his receivers a couple chances last week. They weren't great throws or anything, but at least he gave it a try. Do I even have to bring up the fact that Cody is under constant pressure? That he doesn't have a running game? That he plays from behind in the score virtually EVERY play? Do you know how hard it is to play QB when the defense essentially knows you're throwing it every down? We need to take what Cody does well and maximize it. Shit, I don't care if he hardly ever hits the long ball this year. I want him to continue to work hard, continue NOT turning it over, STAYING HEALTHY, and moving the chains. To me, Cody is doing all of the HARD STUFF now, and the deep plays will come when he's more comfortable. In my twisted mind, THAT'S how it's supposed to work. His arm strength is a non-issue for me, but I'm interested in seeing how he plays in the windy, crappy weather of winter. After watching the Cowboys play this year, I'm seriously thinking about drafting all of the offensive lineman we can get our hands on. I know we tried that with Erving, but he's just another swing and a miss. Pass rushers and offensive lineman. I want them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 We've actually been pretty decent with highly drafted OL - Bitonio, Schwartz, Mack & Thomas were all hits - but those along with Erving are all irrelevant anyway since it's an entirely new staff. Kessler's deep ball will improve at least a little bit with age, experience and mechanics each off-season, bit by bit. I wouldn't worry about it so much. He's at the very least good enough to hold the fort for a few years so we can build the team and then draft the right guy at the right time instead of trying to force it like every other year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 ... I think (Chad Kelly's) receivers make a lot of his plays for him. Sounds like we need to draft his receivers then... Sumlin deserves the rest of the season but I think if he loses another game he should get gone. His recruiting sucks. Next few years will be pretty rough. Whoa.... be careful... you know how loose posts like this undermine a HC... or at least you did in another thread I read a couple minutes ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted November 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Sounds like we need to draft his receivers then... Whoa.... be careful... you know how loose posts like this undermine a HC... or at least you did in another thread I read a couple minutes ago. Yep, I know. One guy's in year 5. One's in year 1. If/when A&M has a new head coach I won't be overly critical of him in his first year or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Chad Kelly sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Tonight's game is going to be a different ball game for Cody. I don't think he's faced a defense like Baltimore yet (I could be mistaken), and they are going to crowd the crap out of the short stuff, and really try and bait him into throwing picks. Eric Weddle, safety for Ravens, is playing at almost a defensive player of the year type level (it's true), and you can bet your ass he's going to be bracketing Pryor along side Jimmy Smith. It's safe to say that we're not going to have a running game (again), and it'll be tough sledding for our offense. Combine all that with a very short week of practice...and it doesn't look pretty. The ONLY thing that gives me hope is the Ravens' offense isn't very good. They really aren't. Mike Wallace has come on, but I like Joe Haden's chances against him. It also appears the Ravens' all pro guard Yanda is missing the game, as he's listed as "doubtful". Right now we need all the good news we can get. I couldn't believe Hue Jackson said that the QB's job is to win games. I don't mind him saying that, but I DO mind him saying that after a game like the Cowboys when our defense literally NEVER stopped them, didn't get a turnover, and didn't even hold them to a FG. What the hell is the QB supposed to do?! Go out there and sack the QB? If Cody comes out and forces some really bad balls that get picked off, I'm going to be furious with Hue Jackson. Let the kid play his game, and GROW INTO throwing more risky passes. What's the rush? We're not "good" right now! And why say it PUBLICLY?! I don't get it...I really don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 I don't think he's faced a defense like Baltimore yet (I could be mistaken)... Not in this instance... And you've been on a roll lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 One more quick post, and I promise I'll quite writing junk for a few minutes. LOL. I haven't seen a lot of "trick plays" out of our offense lately. Obviously we've seen Hogan and Pryor running the read option stuff, but I don't remember too many other "trick plays". I guess our play to Crow to start the game was pretty awesome, and I actually LIKE the fact that Hue hasn't turned to "gadget" plays totally, but I feel like it's time to let it allllllll out. Do we run reverses? How about a reverse THROW with Pryor? You can bet we have that sort of play in the bag somewhere...maybe we see it tonight? Bold Predictions that only an idiot would make: Browns get a defensive/special teams touchdown (quit laughing...jack asses) Ogbah and Nassib combine for at least 2 sacks. Barnidge gets his first TD. Jamie Collins interception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted November 18, 2016 Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 Kessler is going to see lousy weather action Sunday. Mid 30s, nw winds 20-30 mph and a slight chance of lake effect snow. Should be a good test for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 18, 2016 Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 He has nearly 11" hands, so there's that I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted November 18, 2016 Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 I didn't know that about him. It'll no doubt help him hold onto a rock hard ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted November 18, 2016 Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 Yeah it's good to see how he handles it going forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted November 18, 2016 Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 Ok, I've been waiting for an article like this, and one finally came. The author goes into the various reasons why the Browns' offense, Cody specifically, can't get the ball down the field. As many of us have stated, this issue does NOT rest squarely on the shoulders of a rookie QB for the following reasons: Cody doesn't have time to throw or wait for longer routes. Defenses obviously know to attack Cameron Erving, and they normally have success running "stunts" or other confusing blitzes that our center struggles against. It's not a difficult formula, and the NFL is a copycat league. If it works one game, it's probably going to work again. The bigger issue with this is the fact that Cody is now used to not having time, and he's probably hearing footsteps even when he shouldn't be. Hopefully he grows out of this. Another issue, as stated in the article, is our lack of creative playcalling. I don't want to just copy the piece, so I'll leave out the details, but I think we all agree with it. The article also points out the one play that I mentioned a few times (at least I THINK I did, LOL). Maybe I just talked about it with my friends, who cares, but the point is Cody flat out missed a touchdown opportunity...and it was a LONG one. The gist is that Cody locked onto Pryor pre-snap for the patented comeback route. For once, Cody had actually had TIME TO THROW, but he didn't take advantage of it and scan the field. Had he done so, he would've seen Coleman streaking down the field for a probable TD bomb. I believe this is the play in which Corey came to the sideline in obvious frustration, throwing his hands up into the air. These opportunities are rare, and Cody simply can't miss them. The article is linked below. http://waitingfornextyear.com/2016/11/browns-film-room-cody-kessler/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 18, 2016 Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 On blocking: ... and yet some have hope that Cam can move to OT... I would only add that a second loop by the DB inside Drango would have also gotten home had Kess been able to slide up and to his left to avoid Suggs. THAT, my friends, is a blitz design... On open WRs: I would argue that Kess' lack of anticipation of "NFL open" is part of the issue, if not, THE issue. Look at Hawk running the medium cross in the featured gif. He beats the RILB across the formation and the LILB is frantically retreating half-turned to get to his drop after biting on the play action. Hawk is coming open by NFL standards and ends up open by any standard despite the short throw to Barn which you'd expect the LILB to react up to. It's the difference between reading D on the fly and looking for open receivers. One more thought... if your QB can't (or doesn't) read the D, then option routes are not an option... and option routes are an essential part of getting open in the NFL. Maybe more later... errands to run... Good article... great topic... even if I have a different take... which I am used to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted November 18, 2016 Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 Well Tour, you're not wrong. You make an excellent point about knowing where to look BEFORE the snap, versus looking at which receivers are "open". This is obviously just one play, and to me, it's an example of Cody going straight to his comfort zone (Pryor on the comeback). Before the snap, he probably locked onto Pryor, and wasn't even going to consider anybody else. If I had to guess, this is one of the biggest reasons he was pulled. Hue Jackson may have called the perfect play and caught the Ravens in a bad defensive set, and that's RARE in the NFL. So what did Cody look for? The 9 yard comeback. Not good. It's further made worse because our OL actually blocked up the play rather well. I want to emphasize that this was ONE play, but it is a pretty good example of the coach's frustration....and also our WR's. Our offense is not good at scoring points, and our defense is even worse at preventing them. Whenever a chance for a big play presents itself, we simply must capitalize. To make matters EVEN worse, it wasn't a difficult throw. The conditions were pretty damn good, and we all know how accurate Cody can be when he has time. Conversely, the touchdown pass to Devalve was excellent. Devalve gave an interview in which he said he was NOT the primary read, and I thought that was interesting. That means that Cody had to read the defense, and he KNEW he'd have a chance at a score. Think about that for a second. If you look at the play, you notice that Cody doesn't really give anybody else a look. He knows that Devalve has a chance to be open, and he delivers a damn strike. So basically, he did the exact thing he failed to do on the above play. So what's all this mean? Well, it means that Cody is a damn rookie. He's not going to get it right every time, but the GOOD news is he has shown he CAN do it. Does it need to be more frequent? Yes, of course it does, but I also believe that can come with experience and film review. But there's a problem with that, and that "problem" is named RG III, and he'll be arriving to a shitstorm near you in about a week. RG III got to play about one game against a pretty good team. Before Cam Erving sent a snap flying through the uprights, the game was relatively close. The writing is on the wall that Hue Jackson, as well as other staff, want to see RG III play a few more times this year. We're running out of games, so you're going to see Robert before too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 18, 2016 Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 Not necessarily before the snap... a pre-snap read is a start, but teams are so damn good these days at disguising coverages that confirming the pre-snap read during the drop is essential. Just to be clear... my pass breakdown was on the 2nd gif... the one after the pass protection section. In it Pryor did not fly, but ran a deep comeback. That is what the LILB seemed so desperate to get under after being sucked up by the play-action. Moving on... gif #3 - Play Calling Yeah... a two-man route against a base D with a RB delaying into the flat? Ugh... but still... against the two-deep, zone BLT ran there was a play there to be made. Crow's terrible release did still pull the LB out of the middle opening the area between the hashes in front of the two-deep safeties. Kess looks left to a blanketed Coleman... then swings all the way to Crow, who even if hit is not gaining much, seemingly never giving the WR to his right (Higgins or Louis?) a glance. Had he, and had he trusted his WR to make the same read, then there's a 10-yard curl there for the taking. Then there's Kess' escape route choice... stepping up and to his left is a sizeable alley. Why he went back and around the mosh pit eludes me unless he'd decided to get the ball to Crow no matter what. Bottom line: The call may not have been great, but Kess made sure it ended badly. gif#4 - Missing Opportunites I love this example. It shows exactly what I was saying about adjusting to "NFL Open". It is the definition of the adage, "if he's even, he's open." When Hawk is two yards shy of the Safety, who is still square to the LOS, an NFL QB has to see that Hawk has "won". Instead Kess has predetermined his throw to Capt. Comeback... who has no separation. All the while with the single high Safety shaded Pryor's way and rotating in Pryor's direction. Everything post snap is screaming "look left". But when you look you have to see your WR and the DB's position, not just a white jersey with a purple jersey too close. As for the Devalve TD... Devalve was "college-open"... not a purple jersey near him. I'm not giving points for seeing a secondary receiver was wide open... especially when he is likely crossing the primary, Barn, a whole 5 yards downfield. None of the above means Kess cannot grow into the job... but he has a long way to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted November 19, 2016 Report Share Posted November 19, 2016 Ok, I've been waiting for an article like this, and one finally came. The author goes into the various reasons why the Browns' offense, Cody specifically, can't get the ball down the field. As many of us have stated, this issue does NOT rest squarely on the shoulders of a rookie QB for the following reasons: Cody doesn't have time to throw or wait for longer routes. Defenses obviously know to attack Cameron Erving, and they normally have success running "stunts" or other confusing blitzes that our center struggles against. It's not a difficult formula, and the NFL is a copycat league. If it works one game, it's probably going to work again. The bigger issue with this is the fact that Cody is now used to not having time, and he's probably hearing footsteps even when he shouldn't be. Hopefully he grows out of this. The article is linked below. http://waitingfornextyear.com/2016/11/browns-film-room-cody-kessler/ jiggins, thanks for the long awaited awesome read on Kess,enjoyed. Think we get it all this weekend, bad weather test with a below average secondary imo. but a front 7 that can still make plays. I always go back to what Hue preached at camp, which was "we practice the same way we play on Gameday" Lets see if Kess got the message? Anticipate it..Let it Rip..Throw the guy open & stop the waiting on getting open.. Big Ben can keep talking about how we missed on Wentz. Now lets see what Kessler has got to say about it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 19, 2016 Report Share Posted November 19, 2016 Big Ben can keep talking about how we missed on Wentz. Heard a stat today that surprised me... Since Week 5 Carson Wentz has the lowest QBR of any starting QB in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted November 19, 2016 Report Share Posted November 19, 2016 Heard a stat today that surprised me... Since Week 5 Carson Wentz has the lowest QBR of any starting QB in the NFL. Yeah, imagine that! There were a number of folks that had ordained him as the "next coming" early in the season, then he became a rookie! That stat also surprised me, but rookies have to pay their dues. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted November 20, 2016 Report Share Posted November 20, 2016 Cody has a weak arm and holds the ball too long. He looks like a backup/fringe starter, nothing else... He can be accurate but will never be able to lead an explosive offense. You cant dink-and-dunk in today's NFL... ask Wentz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 20, 2016 Report Share Posted November 20, 2016 I'd like to point out the irony in the Wentz detractors saying he's a bust when only a few weeks ago they were saying how it's way too early to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 20, 2016 Report Share Posted November 20, 2016 Im in no mood to talk about qb's, tom brady wouldnt have lasted two seasons here. For some reason we've never been able to build and sustain a competent o line, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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