Anyone Excited About Kessler Yet?

[jbluhm86]

I genuinely feel bad for Kessler after today's game. Heard he's getting shut down for the year after getting concussed again, because his O-line is god fucking awful.

 

Vios con Dios, amigo.

 

[hoorta]

 

Yeah, imagine that! There were a number of folks that had ordained him as the "next coming" early in the season, then he became a rookie! That stat also surprised me, but rookies have to pay their dues.

 

Mike

 

Wentz or Kessler- duh.

Yup, Coleman drops one that hit him in the hands.

When is Hue gonna bench that bum Erving?

Duke Johnson can't block defensive ends, who'd a guessed?

Josh McClown is an expert at losing games- see above. Cut him now.

Defense can't set an outside edge to save their lives.

More dumb penalties, TOs and the shit show continues. Enjoy.

[Mudfly]

 

 

Yup, Coleman drops one that hit him in the hands.

 

2....actually....3......

 

not very impressive so far....

[Browns149]

Wentz or Kessler- duh.

Yup, Coleman drops one that hit him in the hands.

When is Hue gonna bench that bum Erving?

Duke Johnson can't block defensive ends, who'd a guessed?

Josh McClown is an expert at losing games- see above. Cut him now.

Defense can't set an outside edge to save their lives.

More dumb penalties, TOs and the shit show continues. Enjoy.

Defense isn't designed to set the edge.

They go inside on almost every play.

Why do you think the RB is wide open in the flat every play?.

 

Another scheme problem is the RB or TE blocking the pass rushing end.

 

Watch the game again, the stoolers put their worst D lineman on Joe Thomas, and then put a rusher outside Joe. The guy Joe was blocking didn't even rush the passer. He just stood up and took Joe out of the play. Joe and him just played patty cake standing there. Then they better rushers went to work on our 4 horrible linemen.

[calfoxwc]

Not necessarily before the snap... a pre-snap read is a start, but teams are so damn good these days at disguising coverages that confirming the pre-snap read during the drop is essential.

 

Just to be clear... my pass breakdown was on the 2nd gif... the one after the pass protection section. In it Pryor did not fly, but ran a deep comeback. That is what the LILB seemed so desperate to get under after being sucked up by the play-action.

 

Moving on...

 

gif #3 - Play Calling

Yeah... a two-man route against a base D with a RB delaying into the flat? Ugh... but still... against the two-deep, zone BLT ran there was a play there to be made. Crow's terrible release did still pull the LB out of the middle opening the area between the hashes in front of the two-deep safeties. Kess looks left to a blanketed Coleman... then swings all the way to Crow, who even if hit is not gaining much, seemingly never giving the WR to his right (Higgins or Louis?) a glance. Had he, and had he trusted his WR to make the same read, then there's a 10-yard curl there for the taking.

 

Then there's Kess' escape route choice... stepping up and to his left is a sizeable alley. Why he went back and around the mosh pit eludes me unless he'd decided to get the ball to Crow no matter what.

 

Bottom line: The call may not have been great, but Kess made sure it ended badly.

 

gif#4 - Missing Opportunites

I love this example. It shows exactly what I was saying about adjusting to "NFL Open". It is the definition of the adage, "if he's even, he's open."

 

When Hawk is two yards shy of the Safety, who is still square to the LOS, an NFL QB has to see that Hawk has "won". Instead Kess has predetermined his throw to Capt. Comeback... who has no separation. All the while with the single high Safety shaded Pryor's way and rotating in Pryor's direction.

 

Everything post snap is screaming "look left". But when you look you have to see your WR and the DB's position, not just a white jersey with a purple jersey too close.

 

 

As for the Devalve TD... Devalve was "college-open"... not a purple jersey near him. I'm not giving points for seeing a secondary receiver was wide open... especially when he is likely crossing the primary, Barn, a whole 5 yards downfield.

 

 

None of the above means Kess cannot grow into the job... but he has a long way to grow.

Thanks for that - great stuff. I hadn't notice all that. Kessler will be a fine back up qb. And Wentz will be a star,

but it's tough on rookie qb's without all the talent around them to work with that can win.

[flyingfooldoug]

Where do we send flowers?

[TexasAg1969]

 

Wentz or Kessler- duh.

Yup, Coleman drops one that hit him in the hands.

When is Hue gonna bench that bum Erving?

Duke Johnson can't block defensive ends, who'd a guessed?

Josh McClown is an expert at losing games- see above. Cut him now.

Defense can't set an outside edge to save their lives.

More dumb penalties, TOs and the shit show continues. Enjoy.

 

And yet if this were tagged as a weekly comedy show, we'd all just be rolling in the aisles.

 

Oh wait, I do roll my eyes a lot while laughing. And I do get to say, "Only the Browns!" at least 10 times a game. Can't find comedy better'n that.

[Mudfly]

Thanks for that - great stuff. I hadn't notice all that. Kessler will be a fine back up qb.

Thats great!

 

committed a 3rd round pick and a whole season of losing to establish our back up QB.....things are looking up!

[jrb12711]

I just want to throw it up there, look at the guys stats:

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/2577243/cody-kessler

 

If we drafted Cody with the top pick, would you be happy with those stats? I'm honestly asking here. Take that and then realize the scenario of the Browns and the scenario Cody was thrown into.

 

I want to talk about how I saw a different QB out there today though, and why Hue is at the center of it. I bitched and moaned about how bad of a decision it was to pull Kessler against Baltimore because Hue wanted him to "throw it down field". The thing is though, it's clear that's not Cody's game. We can sit here and have the argument of whether or not that's effective, but that's just not the dudes game. What I do know is that the game he knows how to play netted us several games with 350+ yards of offense.

 

What I saw out there Sunday was a guy who was told to do something he's not built to do. A dude who was told play my way or highway instead of playing the guys strengths. Mind you, this is the guy Hue said "trust me" on. That, at least to me, is just bad coaching. You may disagree and I would cede certainly on some points, but I don't understand how a guy basically has a bad stretch of a game and a half or so (coming off a concussion no less) and he's told it's not good enough. Bad, bad, bad.

[gftChris]

I just want to throw it up there, look at the guys stats:

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/2577243/cody-kessler

 

If we drafted Cody with the top pick, would you be happy with those stats? I'm honestly asking here. Take that and then realize the scenario of the Browns and the scenario Cody was thrown into.

 

I want to talk about how I saw a different QB out there today though, and why Hue is at the center of it. I bitched and moaned about how bad of a decision it was to pull Kessler against Baltimore because Hue wanted him to "throw it down field". The thing is though, it's clear that's not Cody's game. We can sit here and have the argument of whether or not that's effective, but that's just not the dudes game. What I do know is that the game he knows how to play netted us several games with 350+ yards of offense.

 

What I saw out there Sunday was a guy who was told to do something he's not built to do. A dude who was told play my way or highway instead of playing the guys strengths. Mind you, this is the guy Hue said "trust me" on. That, at least to me, is just bad coaching. You may disagree and I would cede certainly on some points, but I don't understand how a guy basically has a bad stretch of a game and a half or so (coming off a concussion no less) and he's told it's not good enough. Bad, bad, bad.

There's more to it than just stats though. He doesn't seem to anticipate receivers coming open, which means he holds on to the football waiting for something that's not going to be there, and makes our already shaky OL look worse.

 

I agree with you on being forced to throw downfield, and I said exactly the same to myself at the time. Though, on the pick, Coleman was ahead of his defender, Kessler just underthrew him. Otherwise it's a TD.

 

I like Kessler. I think he's accurate, doesn't turn the ball over, can be an effective game manager if all the other pieces around him are playing well. In the same way the I like Crowell, who I think can hit an open lane hard, make a defender miss with a little agility and strength, but isn't going to carry an offense by himself. We need one of those two positions to become 'elite' and the other will fall in line. At the moment they're both looking to each other to take the lead.

[jrb12711]

There's more to it than just stats though. He doesn't seem to anticipate receivers coming open, which means he holds on to the football waiting for something that's not going to be there, and makes our already shaky OL look worse.

 

I agree with you on being forced to throw downfield, and I said exactly the same to myself at the time. Though, on the pick, Coleman was ahead of his defender, Kessler just underthrew him. Otherwise it's a TD.

 

I like Kessler. I think he's accurate, doesn't turn the ball over, can be an effective game manager if all the other pieces around him are playing well. In the same way the I like Crowell, who I think can hit an open lane hard, make a defender miss with a little agility and strength, but isn't going to carry an offense by himself. We need one of those two positions to become 'elite' and the other will fall in line. At the moment they're both looking to each other to take the lead.

 

I think his near 68% completion percentage going into yesterday (which was the highest OF ALL TIME for a rookie QB going into the game) says otherwise to the bolded. I think he was holding onto the ball yesterday because he wasn't playing his game (aka making quick decisions) because he was waiting for the stuff downfield. Then of course you can make the argument that our Oline in no way shape or form is able to protect for the time to throw downfield too.

 

Let me make it clear that I'm not saying Kessler is the dude. But man, I just think Hue is REALLY screwing the pooch in how he's handled the guy.

[gftChris]

I'm inclined to agree on that last part. Sure it was tough to have to throw him in at the start, and he did well enough. But publicly calling him out, yanking him for McTurnover, just puts so much extra pressure on the rookie.

 

I did see the highest completion percentage by a rookie QB - you don't get that by being bad. Same with Duke Johnson, most 3rd down reception/conversions among RBs. But a lot of the time it feels like his completions are coming after a few seconds waiting for something to happen, then checking down to a running back, or sometimes lobbing it up to Pryor (which is fine, but it's not a statement about his accuracy).

[Tour2ma]

One additional thought on escapes... hit me last night watching Rodgers bail every which way.

 

Kess always seems to go back and around even when that takes him into the outside rush.

 

McC shows a little more situational reaction, but first instinct seems to be to step up, even if there's secondary pressure up the middle.

 

 

I'd like to point out the irony in the Wentz detractors saying he's a bust when only a few weeks ago they were saying how it's way too early to tell.

 

Similarly the Wentz promoters have gotten a little quiet lately... and are now in the too early to tell camp...

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

One additional thought on escapes... hit me last night watching Rodgers bail every which way.

 

Kess always seems to go back and around even when that takes him into the outside rush.

 

McC shows a little more situational reaction, but first instinct seems to be to step up, even if there's secondary pressure up the middle.

 

 

 

Similarly the Wentz promoters have gotten a little quiet lately... and are now in the too early to tell camp...

I still say he was a worthwhile pick. His stat line to this point is still essentially better than most QB's we've had in 20 years.

 

As a rookie.

[Tour2ma]

I still say he was a worthwhile pick. His stat line to this point is still essentially better than most QB's we've had in 20 years.

 

As a rookie.

 

Don't disagree... but there were those fitting him for his yellow blazer after Week 3...

[gftChris]

I still say he was a worthwhile pick. His stat line to this point is still essentially better than most QB's we've had in 20 years.

 

As a rookie.

I'm still getting the Colt McCoy vibes from him. And after a year of being the full time starter (2017) we'll probably replace him with a big armed idiot drafted at #22.

[flyingfooldoug]

Geico is gonna make a new ad with Kessler getting pummeled and then carted off the field.

Browns QB, it's what they do.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I'm still getting the Colt McCoy vibes from him. And after a year of being the full time starter (2017) we'll probably replace him with a big armed idiot drafted at #22.

We were talking about Wentz.

[Zombo]

I'm still getting the Colt McCoy vibes from him. And after a year of being the full time starter (2017) we'll probably replace him with a big armed idiot drafted at #22.

I don't know why that made laugh so hard but it did.

 

We do tend to follow "moxie with a lot of heart" with "big-armed idiot". And then throw a total meltdown like Manziel in there just to keep it real.

 

Zombo

[jiggins7919]

Kessler is still a "worthwhile" pick, mainly because I feel he is a quality backup right now. The main thing with Kessler, early in the season, was "how was he going to develop as the season progressed"? The answer is, not very good. Against the Steelers and Ravens, he did not look like the same players. Maybe that's because there is more tape out on him, and maybe it's because he's somewhat gun shy after being pummeled and knocked out a few times. Whatever the answer is, Cody has not kept making improvements from week to week, and that's discouraging. Does it mean he's a wasted pick? No, I don't think it does. At one time during the year, I completely thought Cody had a chance to be "the guy". I don't feel that way anymore, and it's mainly because he doesn't have the requisite athleticism to play in the NFL. He can't escape, he can't shake off an arm tackle, and he can't run for yardage. Those attributes are almost a necessity in today's NFL, and they aren't something a young QB can simply "work on" very much. Generally, if you're slow...you're slow.

 

I've said it once, and I'll say it again: If you watch the tape on Cody, you will find DOZENS of time per game where a halfway mobile QB could've gashed the defense for huge yards...without taking a hit. I completely realize that a QB's job is not really to "run the ball", but the thing is, once a QB gashes the defense with his legs, it FORCES them to change how they do things, and then other parts of the offense can open up. You may disagree, but I'm telling you...we lose out on BIG yards by not having a QB that can run at least A LITTLE.

 

Conversely, watch Mitch Trubisky play a few times, and notice how he hurts the opposition with his legs. He had an AMAZING game against my Seminoles IN Tallahassee, and the one TD he ran for was simply incredible.

[The Gipper]

I'm still getting the Colt McCoy vibes from him. And after a year of being the full time starter (2017) we'll probably replace him with a big armed idiot drafted at #22.

I was thinking that same thing too. Colt McCoy may be a bit better. Charlie Frye vibes?

Whatever....it reads: "backup", not "franchise"....unless he is a guy like Brian Sipe that need 2-3 years of apprenticeship.

[flyingfooldoug]

I was thinking that same thing too. Colt McCoy may be a bit better. Charlie Frye vibes?

Whatever....it reads: "backup", not "franchise"....unless he is a guy like Brian Sipe that need 2-3 years of apprenticeship.

Wasn't that the original plan for him? He wasn't supposed to be a starter this year let alone play at all.

[The Gipper]

Wasn't that the original plan for him? He wasn't supposed to be a starter this year let alone play at all.

Who on God's Good Green Earth knows what the plan was for him.

As noted, many thought he would end up being a UDFA. We take him in round 3.

We shied away from Dak because of his OVI conviction. Didn't want any Johnny redux situations.

So, there you go.

[Mudfly]

Who on God's Good Green Earth knows what the plan was for him.

As noted, many thought he would end up being a UDFA. We take him in round 3.

 

No doubt.....what were they thinking????......stillllll smh.....

[TopDawg31]

Captain Checkdown, oh wait, think someone else already had that nickname, oh well if the shoe fits. Capt checkdown sucks. We need him in there to preserve our perfect season. We might accidentally win a game with T.O.M. Mckown.

[Opal312]

He wasn't expected to play? Did the Browns FO not know about RG3 and his inability to stay healthy? Did they not recognize how letting Mack & Mitchell walk would affect the OLine? Did they really think backup McCown at 37 would be able to scramble on every snap?

Not expected to play? Everyone knew in pre-season the Browns would be a mess!

[hoorta]

He wasn't expected to play? Did the Browns FO not know about RG3 and his inability to stay healthy? Did they not recognize how letting Mack & Mitchell walk would affect the OLine? Did they really think backup McCown at 37 would be able to scramble on every snap?

Not expected to play? Everyone knew in pre-season the Browns would be a mess!

 

We could spin it back to late August where some of the happies around here were talking 8-8, maybe even playoffs.

[Mudfly]

Everyone knew in pre-season the Browns would be a mess!

Not the case......I got scolded repeatedly for pointing out how bad we looked.....and told I was wrong.....(many many times)

 

 

We could spin it back to late August where some of the happies around here were talking 8-8, maybe even playoffs.

Yep.....well, not so sure about the expectation of playoffs part.....but, yep....not too many were predicting what we are seeing now.....

 

Mostly I sensed the anticipation of watching our players "have fun".....developing their games......and the team growing and improving as the season progressed.....and, hopefully, all while watching some future stars emerge.....and....oh, I dont know......maybe win a game or 5 too

[TexasAg1969]

My own expectations were more for the second half of the season. 0-3 start while looking lost was not what I had anticipated. Pass the rum please.

[hoorta]

Not the case......I got scolded repeatedly for pointing out how bad we looked.....and told I was wrong.....(many many times)

 

Yep.....well, not so sure about the expectation of playoffs part.....but, yep....not too many were predicting what we are seeing now.....

 

Mostly I sensed the anticipation of watching our players "have fun".....developing their games......and the team growing and improving as the season progressed.....and, hopefully, all while watching some future stars emerge.....and....oh, I don't know......maybe win a game or 5 too

 

Yup, I caught hell for siding with Ghoolie that we weren't going to be very good. He can call Harrah's now and collect that $1,000 he bet on the over\under- with 4 weeks left in the season. If you remember, I put the o\u at 2-1\2, and took the under. Too bad I don't gamble. Still perfect in the Survivor pool. This coming Sunday, I have Bye favored by 3 against the Browns.

 

My own expectations were more for the second half of the season. 0-3 start while looking lost was not what I had anticipated. Pass the rum please.

 

You must be psychic Ag, I'm having a rum and coke whilst I'm typing this.