Tour2ma Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 Don't entirely disagree, but did not want to waste the opportunity to cuss out Ghoolie before I exiled him... I don't agree on the race thing. While it seems natural for a Black HC who has worked long and hard for his opportunities to want to extend a hand to others in his situation, no HC takes on a substandard coordinator just "because"... there's simply too much at stake. I'm hard pressed to remember the other DC's not named O'Neil that were floating around at the time Hue assembled his staff, but I know our two(?) rumored candidates weren't among them. Even had our D played better than it did (although beyond better blitz schemes, I do not know how it would have) the two names being floated would be clear upgrades. Plus while we're recalling reports... wasn't it just a couple weeks ago that a shouting match between Hue and Ray was being reported? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 Plus while we're recalling reports... wasn't it just a couple weeks ago that a shouting match between Hue and Ray was being reported? oh no shit? is this verified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 Horton is not fired...Yet. Greg Williams has till Monday to decide on the offer but Horty is still here. Awkward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 I wonder how many of his rape victims have celebrated this picture... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 Some is just bloodlines, but mostly track record. Hasn't gone anywhere that he hasn't resurrected the D. Sustain? Somewhat different matter, but most of his moving on has been when HCs are let go above him. I also think his HC experience would be an asset to Hue. I like Wade best too. That said, Greg Williams also has HC experience in Buffalo even if it's one he'd like to forget. With both buys, they're best wired to be DCs. I think Williams has SB experience as a DC in TN. I can't remember if he was also the DC of New Orleans when they won the SB; but there's a pretty resume for him on that side of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 Gregg Williams won't be much of an upgrade, if any, at points or yards given up. He had arguably the top DL in all of football this past season.. and just like in 2014, he was the #1 blitzer in all of football this past year as well. That's not "aggressive" -- that just gets you beat via draws and screens. We don't have the DB personnel that Arizona does to be top10 in points given up with their number of blitzes in 2016. Rams this past year blitzed 44% of the time with only 17 sacks.. not enough sacks, not enough INT.. My vote would go to Wade, but apparently the offer's already out to Gregg. This will make Collins even better [he's ILB, not OLB] when he blitzes. Not a single sack in Collins’ career has come from anywhere besides up the middle.. so 4-3 will be better for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 I thoughtbthe rams lost most of that DL talent? Anyway, few years ago when they lostbtheir best pass rusher for half the season (long) they were still one if the best front 7's in football. Thats what i liked about that rams d, they had injuries throughout the defensive front and production didnt dip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 oh no shit? is this verified? . I'm trying to... google coming up empty, but I know I read an account somewhere. I think it was in the Browns' reddit sub. Still looking, but it's harder to dredge up "threads" over there. Horton is not fired...Yet. Greg Williams has till Monday to decide on the offer but Horty is still here. Awkward. Awkward plus... I like Wade best too. That said, Greg Williams also has HC experience in Buffalo even if it's one he'd like to forget. With both buys, they're best wired to be DCs. I think Williams has SB experience as a DC in TN. I can't remember if he was also the DC of New Orleans when they won the SB; but there's a pretty resume for him on that side of the ball. That was Gregg as DC in NOLA's SB year. His D was 20th in points allowed and 25th in yards. But NO was geared to outscore opponents and #1 in both categories on Offense, so there was a lot of prevent D late in games. Gregg's BUF HC gig was forgettable... as in I did not* remember him in that role for 3 years, but he did improve them from year one to year two (8-8) and his D was 15th in yards allowed. Career path shows a pretty meteoric rise with only 4 years at the DC level, all under Fisher in TN... in fact his whole NFL career prior to BUF was under Fisher. ________________________________ *Edited in an important excluded word... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 I thoughtbthe rams lost most of that DL talent? You haven't heard of Aaron Donald? And Michael Brockers is good in his own right as the other DT. Also, Robert Quinn had 19 sacks.. naturally, the year before Williams took over. FYI, all 3 of those were 1st-rd picks. Rams DL was this year and will be for the foreseeable future the #1 DL in football.. perhaps not in production due to Williams but definitely in individual talent and payroll.. Note that Browns.com is reporting Hue did the firing of Horton -- leads me to think Hue pushed for that change.. So, it's not him losing control at all, rather him getting frustrated and making a move.. As well, apparently Williams was DC for 5 top-5 D's.. Tennessee (No. 1 in total defense in 2000), Buffalo (No. 3 in 2001 and No. 2 in 2003), Washington (No. 3 in 2005), and New Orleans (No. 4 in 2010) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 . I'm trying to... google coming up empty, but I know I read an account somewhere. I think it was in the Browns' reddit sub. Still looking, but it's harder to dredge up "threads" over there. Awkward plus... That was Gregg as DC in NOLA's SB year. His D was 20th in points allowed and 25th in yards. But NO was geared to outscore opponents and #1 in both categories on Offense, so there was a lot of prevent D late in games. Gregg's BUF HC gig was forgettable... as in I did remember him in that role for 3 years, but he did improve them from year one to year two (8-8) and his D was 15th in yards allowed. Career path shows a pretty meteoric rise with only 4 years at the DC level, all under Fisher in TN... in fact his whole NFL career prior to BUF was under Fisher. True; and if memory serves me right they did pretty well at forcing turnovers which is every bit as important. They've always scored a lot of points with Brees there; but he's often had to feel like Dan Fouts with do I need to QB us to 35-40 points in order to win every week? That changes when your defense forces turnovers and either shortens the field or scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 different players c'mon now. Von was a 4-3 olb'er when he first came to the NFL right? 4-3 DE in 2009. 3-4 OLB in 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 4-3 DE in 2009. 3-4 OLB in 2010. Ehhh u might be right i think i was mixing up him and mack there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 Gregg's BUF HC gig was forgettable... as in I did not* remember him in that role for 3 years, but he did improve them from year one to year two (8-8) and his D was 15th in yards allowed. Career path shows a pretty meteoric rise with only 4 years at the DC level, all under Fisher in TN... in fact his whole NFL career prior to BUF was under Fisher. ________________________________ *Edited in an important excluded word... Clearing the record above... my memory is not that good. Also did not flesh out the meteoric bit... was going for "rose too fast too soon with little breathe of experience" when a damn squirrel ran through my peripheral vision. True; and if memory serves me right they did pretty well at forcing turnovers which is every bit as important. They've always scored a lot of points with Brees there; but he's often had to feel like Dan Fouts with do I need to QB us to 35-40 points in order to win every week? That changes when your defense forces turnovers and either shortens the field or scores. I remember a very aggressive D in NOLA... one that used it to compensate for a lack of talent effectively. Not that they were talent-less, but did not include the household names of other contemporary Ds. Mr. Bountygate, Vilma was there... also Will Smith (R.I.P.)... with Sharper anchoring their 2ndary. Plus my old fav from the too-short, Mangenius era, Scott Fujita... Just looked and NO posted 35 sacks and 39 TOs in '09... and needed the latter to eek out a +11 differential. Maybe Brees is a gunslinger after all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 Tour is right about a Huey v Horty dust-up. I forget what game but the headphones were ripped off in anger and words exchanged between HC and the D in general Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 only the Browns could semi fire a DC. What's gonna happen if no one accepts the job? Hey Ray, ur back in baby!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 Except of course Ray's still not fired as of now... or now... or... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBC mike Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 Hope someone accepts the position. We have a waterboy that plays madden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren15 Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 Dawgs By Nature @DawgsByNature 4m4 minutes ago Gregg Williams has reportedly accepted offer to become the #Browns’ defensive coordinator http://nfltraderumors.co/breaking-browns-hiring-gregg-williams-defensive-coordinator/ Jason La Canfora @JasonLaCanfora 17m17 minutes ago The Browns have secured Gregg Williams to be their next defensive coordinator. Done deal. Wholesale changes coming to defensive staff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren15 Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 3-4 http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/browns-make-wholesale-changes-on-d-hire-gregg-williams-and-3-4-assistants/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 As well, apparently Williams was DC for 5 top-5 D's.. Tennessee (No. 1 in total defense in 2000), Buffalo (No. 3 in 2001 and No. 2 in 2003), Washington (No. 3 in 2005), and New Orleans (No. 4 in 2010) getting 3 out of 4 of these teams to play any kind of defense in top 5..Welcome aboard Gregg Williams!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 3-4 http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/browns-make-wholesale-changes-on-d-hire-gregg-williams-and-3-4-assistants/ At first I thought you meant running the 3-4, but it's bringing 3-4 assistants with him. Cleaning the defensive house out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 Offered to 4-3 Williams and contacted 3-4 Phillips? I am actually good either way, although have a preference for Wade. Phillips runs a 4-3 1 gap defense.. I'm good either way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 This might be helpful for the 4-3 1 gap explanation. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1999358-nfl-101-the-basics-of-the-4-3-defensive-front Written in 2014 you can see why I think we are favoring drafting Garrett, near clone of Clowney in size, speed & athleticism. From the article: —"Open-side" defensive end The majority of NFL offenses are right handed in terms of formation and alignment, so I look to the open-side end (or right end) as a key factor in the 4-3 front. You want size, length and true athletic ability on the edge of the defense that can hold the point, turn the corner versus an offensive tackle and play the cutback against the run game. That’s the Rams’ Robert Quinn or the Giants’ Jason Pierre-Paul with Jadeveon Clowney up next in this year’s draft class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 Fired. Browns have apparently contacted wade phillips. Good. He sucked the first time he was in town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBC mike Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 Nice. Thanks Ray for all your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 Phillips runs a 4-3 1 gap defense.. I'm good either way... Not exactly. His base is old school, Bud Wilkinson 52/34 - still one gap principles the vast majority of the time. Coach Wade usually doesn't have a massive NT that you would traditionally see in your 'classic' 2 gapping 34 base with a 0tech and heads up on the tackles. The differences in scheme are negligible aside from how your OLB's align in your base defense (for the most part). Both Wade and Williams believe in blitzing especially early down 5 man pressures and heavy man coverage. I'd expect our draft targets to be similar for either coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 Not exactly. His base is old school, Bud Wilkinson 52/34 - still one gap principles the vast majority of the time. Coach Wade usually doesn't have a massive NT that you would traditionally see in your 'classic' 2 gapping 34 base with a 0tech and heads up on the tackles. The differences in scheme are negligible aside from how your OLB's align in your base defense (for the most part). Both Wade and Williams believe in blitzing especially early down 5 man pressures and heavy man coverage. I'd expect our draft targets to be similar for either coach. Good points T. Wade actually used a lot of different fronts. Once upon a time it was thought by many draft enthusiasts on many of those draft sites we read today that JJ Watt was best wired for a 3-4, which Houston was using before he was drafted. I read after Watt's rookie season, Phillips actually used a 4 man front about 85% of the time that year. I'm guessing there wasn't any reason to change that frequency shortly thereafter. In saying all that, the benefit of having an experienced DC is he's able to adapt to the personnel he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Look at Houston's defense this year. They run mostly 4 man fronts now and Clowneys becoming a beast. When they get Watt back omg. Watt and clowney on the edges? If watt comes back right this could be a historic defense next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted January 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Horton is a suck ass coordinator who has sucked in every capacity he's served in and no matter what the circumstances of his firing are he was never going to be good. We're better off without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 "Whoreton" has been gawd awful , everywhere hes been...Nuff said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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