Ok are we done with hogan now?

[Clevfan4life]

25 minutes ago, Orion said:

I'm like 99.9 % sure that Hue will announce Kizer as next week's starter on Wednesday.

Id give it another week or yank hogan at halftime if he shts the bed again. I think a week or two off isnt a horrible idea for kizer

[Orion]

14 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

Id give it another week

But do you think Hue will?   I don't.

[Clevfan4life]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

But do you think Hue will?   I don't.

I venture not cause kiz is his boy. I think he started hogan and didnt change the offense to shiw us all that hogan aint cuttin it in his offense. I agree too, why make ur wr's who already are having issues with the drops....drastically alter their routes or learn new ones altogether for this guy with a d3 "HS" arm. Seriously hue could head across town and grab ignatius's or ed's qb and be able to deepen those routes.

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, Clevfan4life said:

I venture not cause kiz is his boy. I think he started hogan and didnt change the offense to shiw us all that hogan aint cuttin it in his offense. I agree too, why make ur wr's who already are having issues with the drops....drastically alter their routes or learn new ones altogether for this guy with a d3 "HS" arm. Seriously hue could head across town and grab ignatius's or ed's qb and be able to deepen those routes.

Then Hue is a freaking idiot. You don't make the player fit your system- you call plays that the talent on hand can execute. If that's Jackson's attitude- he should be gone- just MHO. 

[wargograw]

3 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

Id give it another week or yank hogan at halftime if he shts the bed again. I think a week or two off isnt a horrible idea for kizer

Agreed. 

 

How can everyone say Kizer needed a some quality bench time then want to trot him out again already. 

 

I think PoG makes some good points about it being Hogan’s first start, actually. I don’t think we’ve gotten a true evaluation of him yet and you have to factor in Houston having a great defense (even minus a couple starters). But even beyond that, we MUST break this cycle of “one bad game, ok onto the next guy.”

[stillmotion]

57 minutes ago, wargograw said:

Agreed. 

 

How can everyone say Kizer needed a some quality bench time then want to trot him out again already. 

 

I think PoG makes some good points about it being Hogan’s first start, actually. I don’t think we’ve gotten a true evaluation of him yet and you have to factor in Houston having a great defense (even minus a couple starters). But even beyond that, we MUST break this cycle of “one bad game, ok onto the next guy.”

I saw the game, and Hogan played very bad, but really, to only let him have one start and then to write him off is horrible. Kizer had more starts, and did worse altogether.

We should obviously stick with Kizer for now, but he's regressing and getting worse every week. Things need to change. We need an offensive coordinator.

[jiggins7919]

Getting benched can potentially have positive benefits.  It's possible Kizer gained some perspective while standing on the sidelines, and it's also possible it reinvigorated his determination to be our starting QB.  Obviously, getting benched could have the opposite effects as well, but I'm trying to be hopeful in the face of miserable circumstances.

To be honest, I wouldn't MIND some of the Kizer bone-headed plays if he just scored a few more TD's, ya know?  I mean, take that fumble on the ridiculous option play.  If we score a TD on that drive (and I believe that's the one where he missed a wide open Njoku), we're feeling pretty good about things.  The biggest issue with Kizer is we're just not seeing enough positives to outweigh the negatives.  We simply can't say, "Well he's a rookie, those things are going to happen" because they're happening infinitely more than anything positive.  If Kizer could just balance out some of the terrible plays, I'd be feeling better.  Stick a couple in the end zone, QB draw-sneak it in (like every team does against US), hit a receiver on a fade route in the corner, or here's a thought...SCORE A TOUCHDOWN RUNNING THE BALL TO HELP THE YOUNG KID OUT.  Jesus, how many times have we handed the ball to a RB inside the 20, only to see him get his butt blown apart?  Lord, it would help Kizer SO MUCH if we could just run the darn thing into the end zone, instead of trying to find a gimmick play.

We need to start HELPING this kid out.  Let's take that fumbled pitch on the option.  Yes, it was a terrible pitch, but don't you think you could've FALLEN ON IT, CROW?  And what about the drops from the receivers?  The Kenny Britt drop-INT's?  The inability to run the ball into the pay-dirt?  And here's a thought, if the pass DOES get knocked into the air, how about one of our WR's swatting the ball down so nobody else can grab it?  Deshaun Watson threw one of the worst passes in NFL history that should've been a pick-6, but you know what HIS receiver did?  His receiver came back for the ball, attacked it IN THE AIR, and made sure nobody could secure it.  You ever see any of OUR bozos do that?  Uhh...no.  How about making some dang FG's, ZANE?!  

[Westside Steve]

Getting benched might provide some kind of a spark for a guy who's slacking off. Does that seem to be the case here? Anybody?

WSS

[Orion]

38 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

Let's take that fumbled pitch on the option.  Yes, it was a terrible pitch, but don't you think you could've FALLEN ON IT, CROW? 

I think Crow's momentum was such that he could not just stop and fall on that poorly pitched ball.  And Kizer should never have blamed Crow.

[Tour2ma]

15 hours ago, Orion said:

I'm like 99.9 % sure that Hue will announce Kizer as next week's starter on Wednesday.

Damn... a mere 0.1% shy of genuine Prophet status...

[Clevfan4life]

9 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Getting benched might provide some kind of a spark for a guy who's slacking off. Does that seem to be the case here? Anybody?

WSS

Can u furnish evidence that kizers problems were the result of slacking off? No ofc u cant. The kids a rookie who by all accts worked his Shmucking butt off in TC. He wasnt CFL ready when he reported to camp. Dude looked horrible the first few weeks. He's a rookie. He's a rookie that by all accts needed another year , or even two, of college. But we took him as a known project. We should hsve cut osweiler earlier and kept mccown, ce la vie

[Tour2ma]

On 10/18/2017 at 7:40 AM, Westside Steve said:

Getting benched might provide some kind of a spark for a guy who's slacking off. Does that seem to be the case here? Anybody?

Why don't you take a week off and let us know?

 

 

 

Can't believe I missed this opening yesterday...

[Westside Steve]

21 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

Can u furnish evidence that kizers problems were the result of slacking off? No ofc u cant. The kids a rookie who by all accts worked his Shmucking butt off in TC. He wasnt CFL ready when he reported to camp. Dude looked horrible the first few weeks. He's a rookie. He's a rookie that by all accts needed another year , or even two, of college. But we took him as a known project. We should hsve cut osweiler earlier and kept mccown, ce la vie

 

6 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Why don't you take a week off and let us know?

 

 

 

Can't believe I missed this opening yesterday...

Hard to believe both of you guys miss the point. Well, I'll break it down. Getting benched might be a wake-up call for someone who has been slacking off. When I said does that seem to be the case to any of you guys I meant this:

It does not seem to me that DeSean Kizer has been doing anything other than working as hard as possible to do his very best on game day. Therefore I don't think that a wake-up call in the form of a bitching is probably going to help.

WSS

[Clevfan4life]

7 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Why don't you take a week off and let us know?

 

 

 

Can't believe I missed this opening yesterday...

Ahahahahahahahahahahahava

[Clevfan4life]

Ahabwasahahahahahahagahaha

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, Westside Steve said:

Hard to believe both of you guys miss the point. Well, I'll break it down. Getting benched might be a wake-up call for someone who has been slacking off. When I said does that seem to be the case to any of you guys I meant this:

It does not seem to me that DeSean Kizer has been doing anything other than working as hard as possible to do his very best on game day. Therefore I don't think that a wake-up call in the form of a bitching is probably going to help.

No... I got the point.

My point was you and Dbone and still are exhausting me... please take a week off...

[PoeticG]

Hogan is 24 years old. He's still young. But we need to play Hogan now.

Maybe in three years Kizer will be ready. I get that he wants to be now. I get that he really, really, really wants to be the 'Face of the Franchise' and 'The Guy' right now, he's just not... and there really isn't any chance of that happening for Kizer any time soon. Kizer is a long term project. Cost us scrapes, practically noting in terms of our overall draft capital. 

Hogan is a better player than many here want to give him credit for. At least give him another game before you guys start jumping to conclusions. I don't care where you are drafted, what overall pick a player was. Sometimes it doesn't matter. But once you are here and the work you put in- does matter, at least to me. I owe Hogan another chance to prove one way or the other what he is. 

 

Hogan's "first start" was disappointing. But for crying out loud, seriously. He didn't throw any picks in the second half. All of his picks came in the 2nd quarter. They came in bunches. You have no idea of what he really learned internally after that game. You cannot just write him off. Every QB in the National Football League has had a bad game. Hogan has never played that poorly in all the time that he's been here. He deserves a second chance to prove himself.

Why are you soo against that? In a season that we are literally winless. At 0-6. What are you afraid of? Afraid he might succeed?>   

 

[D Bone]

10 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

Why are you soo against that? In a season that we are literally winless. At 0-6. What are you afraid of? Afraid he might succeed?

 

I saw enough of Hogan's NFL arm "strength" to last me a life time. I know you don't believe that and are sick of hearing it, but it is what it is..... Hogan's a tough dude and I personally like him, but I don't want him under center for the Browns. 

Kizer was drafted in the 2nd round, and that is a pretty significant investment, so the organization needs to find out if he is what they think he is, or if he is what his ex college head coach thinks he is..... and we only have 10 more games to lose to find out. 

 

[PoeticG]

Kizer IS what his ex-college coaches said he was. He's a young guy that needs to learn how play QB at this level. He isn't ready and he doesn't need to learn on the job. He's 21 years old. Kevin is 24 and READY to play in the NFL. 

 

Russel Wilson had a 5 INT game last year. He won a superbowl before. Everyone has a bad game. Maybe you should make sure that wasn't the case with Hogan last week before you close the book. 

The Texans played some good defense on us, do you think Kizer would have done any better that game? Because I do not.

[D Bone]

10 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

Kizer IS what his ex-college coaches said he was. He's a young guy that needs to learn how play QB at this level. He isn't ready and he doesn't need to learn on the job. He's 21 years old. Kevin is 24 and READY to play in the NFL. 

 

Russel Wilson had a 5 INT game last year. He won a superbowl before. Everyone has a bad game. Maybe you should make sure that wasn't the case with Hogan last week before you close the book. 

The Texans played some good defense on us, do you think Kizer would have done any better that game? Because I do not.

Wilson's arm talent (something that can't be taught) was evident from his first pre-season game, and Hogan's lack of it was evident last week. I'm not saying that just because you have arm talent you will succeed in the NFL (I see you there DA and Weeden) but you have to at least have a minimum level of it, and watching Hogan's out route balls showed he is seriously below the NFL minimum level. 

[PoeticG]

I have to disagree with you. I don't think that Hogan lacks the arm strength. There's been a lot of exaggeration in addressing this. You've SEEN Hogan throw those passes throughout the times he been in this year with plenty of arm. He had a bad game he does not a bad arm.

[D Bone]

2 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

I have to disagree with you. I don't think that Hogan lacks the arm strength. There's been a lot of exaggeration in addressing this. You've SEEN Hogan throw those passes throughout the times he been in this year with plenty of arm. He had a bad game he does not a bad arm.

I respect your opinion brother, but we'll definitely agree to disagree! 

[Dutch Oven]

Gotta love PoG.

Before last week's abortion of a start, he guaranteed that with Hogan as the starter, the Browns would be a playoff-caliber team NOW. He's Steve Young. He's the Browns franchise QB. He cures lepers. He can throw a football over TWO mountains.

After last week's start, "He's a young guy who needs to learn how to play in the NFL."

[PoeticG]

1 minute ago, Dutch Oven said:

Gotta love PoG.

Before last week's abortion of a start, he guaranteed that with Hogan as the starter, the Browns would be a playoff-caliber team NOW. He's Steve Young. He's the Browns franchise QB. He cures lepers. He can throw a football over TWO mountains.

After last week's start, "He's a young guy who needs to learn how to play in the NFL."

lol- I was talking about Deshone Kizer. 

Kevin Hogan can read defense's and play QB in the NFL now. 

It's okay if you guys don't believe in him, as long as Hue believes in him. Hogan had a setback but he'll recover.

[Dutch Oven]

4 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

lol- I was talking about Deshone Kizer. 

Kevin Hogan can read defense's and play QB in the NFL now. 

It's okay if you guys don't believe in him, as long as Hue believes in him. Hogan had a setback but he'll recover.

Haha you sure were, my bad!

I don't get the impression that Hue will start Hogan again if he can help it, though.

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, PoeticG said:

Hogan is 24 years old. He's still young. But we need to play Hogan now.

Sorry, you're not going to get your wish. 

Hogan's "first start" was disappointing. But for crying out loud, seriously. He didn't throw any picks in the second half. All of his picks came in the 2nd quarter. They came in bunches. You have no idea of what he really learned internally after that game. You cannot just write him off. Every QB in the National Football League has had a bad game. Hogan has never played that poorly in all the time that he's been here. He deserves a second chance to prove himself.

Why are you soo against that? In a season that we are literally winless. At 0-6. What are you afraid of? Afraid he might succeed?>   

I'm afraid he just possibly might look as bad as he did against the Texans.  Those interceptions were terrible, especially the pick-6 he threw 8 feet over Johnson's head. One of the other ints was a flutterball, and he was high on his throws all day. Soooo, sure bad game, enough to get a fifth round qb we picked up off the scrap heap benched. He was given a one game audition. If he had played like he had in previous games, he would still be starting. Unfortunately- he picked a bad time to play like crap. 

As to writing him off, KC's Andy Reid did- and though I don't like to admit it, but Hue knows around 100 times more about football than I do, and he just demoted your wonder boy to third string. Be realistic- Hogan isn't going to pull a Brian Sipe out of his butt. 

3 hours ago, D Bone said:

I saw enough of Hogan's NFL arm "strength" to last me a life time. I know you don't believe that and are sick of hearing it, but it is what it is..... Hogan's a tough dude and I personally like him, but I don't want him under center for the Browns. 

Kizer was drafted in the 2nd round, and that is a pretty significant investment, so the organization needs to find out if he is what they think he is, or if he is what his ex college head coach thinks he is..... and we only have 10 more games to lose to find out. 

 

Regarding 0-6 D Bone and Po, the season is shot. Kizer was drafted buying a lottery ticket to see if he can' improve to be the guy. Kevin may have a long career ala Colt McCoy as a backup- somewhere, maybe. And if Kizer doesn't improve, we'll know damn well we have to use (probably the #1 overall again) on the top QB in the 2018 draft. In that scenario Hogan gets cut. 

[wargograw]

So PoG, I agree with you that you can't judge the kid off one game. But if he's not available this week, what do you recommend? We play Kizer for a week or two then say "Hogan's ribs are good, he's going to start again"? That just seems too odd for a guy who showed nothing. 

 

It's a tricky situation, although made less tricky by our fans who love bouncing from one QB to the other. 

[hoorta]

9 minutes ago, wargograw said:

So PoG, I agree with you that you can't judge the kid off one game. But if he's not available this week, what do you recommend? We play Kizer for a week or two then say "Hogan's ribs are good, he's going to start again"? That just seems too odd for a guy who showed nothing. 

 

It's a tricky situation, although made less tricky by our fans who love bouncing from one QB to the other. 

Here's the thing War- I might have given Hogan one more start. To prove the Texans game was an aberration. Hue isn't willing to delay Kizer showing anything he has- and I'm OK with that. 

[PoeticG]

Hogan wanted to go this week, but I guess the ribs are too tender. Coach thinks it's a liability while there are healthier QBs waiting to play. I think that Hogan has shown enough to get to another shot. Kizer still needs to sit, we're going to get the chance to see if he can correct some of his mistakes after just a week. Two things could happen...

A- If Kizer lights it up and gets a win, he'll probably ride with Kizer for awhile. 

B- If Kizer once again struggles I expect Hogan will be healed up well enough to go start in London. He's going to be the #2 next week regardless.

 

Hue understands that Texans are a hot team and we were playing on the road against a tough defense. He knows Hogan and he knows Hogan wants another go. He'll get a chance if Kizer struggles. Starting Hogan last week was the right choice. He's shown he deserves a chance to be the guy, he's out played Kizer every step of the way... except in the 2nd Quarter last week... but one week under those hostile circumstances isn't a large enough sample size to accurately judge his potential. 

[MLD Woody]

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