Dorsey Hired

[D Bone]

2 hours ago, Tim Couch Pulls Out said:

He was fired in June, I don’t know if there’s been a job TO get.

Can't let facts get in the way of war's narrative. 

[darren15]

Jimmy mentioned in presser that he wants De Podesta to stay

[wargograw]

6 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

These types of posts will be what makes him fail at his job!

I will take the guy with a track record of putting together winning teams as opposed to the lawyer who convinced himself he was an NFL talent evaluator. 

Sashi pulls together the opinions of others. Find me one quote that would indicate he’s “convinced himself he was an nfl talent evaluator”? I’ll wait. 

5 hours ago, Tim Couch Pulls Out said:

He was fired in June, I don’t know if there’s been a job TO get.

And had there been, do you think he’d have gotten it?

[LogicIsForSquares]

1 minute ago, wargograw said:

Sashi pulls together the opinions of others. Find me one quote that would indicate he’s “convinced himself he was an nfl talent evaluator”? I’ll wait. 

I guess he and DePodesta were at the USC-UCLA game to try the popcorn. Neither one of them is a scout or has any experience evaluating NFL players. Haslem could have sent his dentist and received just as much insight about the QB play.

[wargograw]

2 minutes ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

I guess he and DePodesta were at the USC-UCLA game to try the popcorn. Neither one of them is a scout or has any experience evaluating NFL players. Haslem could have sent his dentist and received just as much insight about the QB play.

The fact that they went to one of the most beautiful and popular hotspots in the country is your evidence? Okie dokie. 

[Hempman]

2 minutes ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

I guess he and DePodesta were at the USC-UCLA game to try the popcorn. Neither one of them is a scout or has any experience evaluating NFL players. Haslem could have sent his dentist and received just as much insight about the QB play.

dude, there was more than Sashi and Depo. They had the whole scouting team there. It was all for Rosen as well. Hue loves himself some Rosen. He is McCarron with physical abilities to Hue. Rosen also ran a offense at UCLA similar to what Hue runs.

[LogicIsForSquares]

3 minutes ago, wargograw said:

The fact that they went to one of the most beautiful and popular hotspots in the country is your evidence? Okie dokie. 

The UCLA/USC game is a beautiful and popular hotspot?

I wonder what the beaches are like near the concession stand.

[LogicIsForSquares]

4 minutes ago, Hempman said:

dude, there was more than Sashi and Depo. They had the whole scouting team there. It was all for Rosen as well. Hue loves himself some Rosen. He is McCarron with physical abilities to Hue. Rosen also ran a offense at UCLA similar to what Hue runs.

The report was that it was those two and one other person. Not "the whole scouting department". Even if it was, what insight would they have to offer? 

[hoorta]

7 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

 sachi wasn't working out, so be it.

but I give Hue a pass on what seems to be "mistakes"... I think he has to spend too much time coveringfor a talented qb that lacks vision and doesn't see the field. How tough is it to learn how to look one way, then lookand throw the other way? How much instinct does it take to know that you can't throw a long pass to a wr that is closely double covered before the ball ever gets there?

  I get upset with Hue, but I'm seeing more and more that he is frustrated at not having the players he needs, and he's trying to make decisions based on that fact.

Cal, in his post Sashi firing press conference, Hue was specifically asked about getting an OC. I sort of buy his explanation that the offence is\was so talent depleted, he didn't want an OC who looked so bad he'd have to fire him. Oh, he knows- as he said "it's performance based" and my performance hasn't been what it needs to be. I suppose it would look bad if he came out and said "I've sucked so far as a coach". 

6 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Sashi Browns entire career has been counting pinto navy,  lima, garbanzo and kidney beans.

WSS

It was posited by some here from the beginning, is a lawyer bean counter fit to run an NFL organization? I think Jimmy decided that answer was NO. 

4 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I think we now know what Hue meant when he said he wanted to be more involved in the process.

This was my first thought as well.

I'll posit this one Tour. We don't know (but Haslam sure does) just how much of a "consensus" there really was. If Hue was constantly getting shot down and overruled by Sashi- when with 20\20 hindsight his suggestions on player acquisitions were dead on, and Sashi and DePo's were crap, draw your own conclusion. What if: Hue was Ok with both Wentz and Watson (remember the supposed phone call to Deshawn?) and to top it off got Kizer (who he probably didn't want) that screams "analytics pick" rammed down his throat, well- I'd probably like a tad more input too. Why do I think that's the case? Read between the lines in Jimmy's goodbye to Sashi- thanks for all the picks, I don't trust you to make them. So much for consensus- Sashi had the final say. Apparently he was asked if it was OK to bring in a Dorsey type to help in that regard, and it was like nope, everything is just hunky-dory. We're going to nail the 2018 draft. That and (care to bet it wasn't deliberately botched) McCarron deal sealed Sashi's fate. BTW DePo's all time stupid comment about Wentz not being a top 20 qb proves when push came to shove who was making the picks.  

1 hour ago, wargograw said:

Sashi pulls together the opinions of others. Find me one quote that would indicate he’s “convinced himself he was an nfl talent evaluator”? I’ll wait. 

And apparently War- he took those opinions and  made his own decision, if there was no consensus- looks like Haslam didn't think much of them. 

[Nero]

24 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Cal, in his post Sashi firing press conference, Hue was specifically asked about getting an OC. I sort of buy his explanation that the offence is\was so talent depleted, he didn't want an OC who looked so bad he'd have to fire him. Oh, he knows- as he said "it's performance based" and my performance hasn't been what it needs to be. I suppose it would look bad if he came out and said "I've sucked so far as a coach". 

It was posited by some here from the beginning, is a lawyer bean counter fit to run an NFL organization? I think Jimmy decided that answer was NO. 

I'll posit this one Tour. We don't know (but Haslam sure does) just how much of a "consensus" there really was. If Hue was constantly getting shot down and overruled by Sashi- when with 20\20 hindsight his suggestions on player acquisitions were dead on, and Sashi and DePo's were crap, draw your own conclusion. What if: Hue was Ok with both Wentz and Watson (remember the supposed phone call to Deshawn?) and to top it off got Kizer (who he probably didn't want) that screams "analytics pick" rammed down his throat, well- I'd probably like a tad more input too. Why do I think that's the case? Read between the lines in Jimmy's goodbye to Sashi- thanks for all the picks, I don't trust you to make them. So much for consensus- Sashi had the final say. Apparently he was asked if it was OK to bring in a Dorsey type to help in that regard, and it was like nope, everything is just hunky-dory. We're going to nail the 2018 draft. That and (care to bet it wasn't deliberately botched) McCarron deal sealed Sashi's fate. BTW DePo's all time stupid comment about Wentz not being a top 20 qb proves when push came to shove who was making the picks.  

And apparently War- he took those opinions and  made his own decision, if there was no consensus- looks like Haslam didn't think much of them. 

I always thought of the "consensus" as something substantial within the front office work, mostly when selecting players and in FA, not in the coach-FO relation.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

The UCLA/USC game is a beautiful and popular hotspot?

I wonder what the beaches are like near the concession stand.

I think  War was thinking like Compton, or Watts.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

1 hour ago, wargograw said:

And had there been, do you think he’d have gotten it?

 

Yeah, probably. He's pretty much thought to be a solid GM.

His draft record isn't bad. It's not fantastic but it's not bad either.  He's a "football guy" who places an emphasis on athletic QB's with a decent amount of college experience and a lot of wins...so naturally you can see why Jimmy loved him so much. 

There's probably going to be three or four open GM positions this year, I think he would have landed with someone. 

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

1 hour ago, Hempman said:

Hue loves himself some Rosen. He is McCarron with physical abilities to Hue.

 

Does he, though? Do we actually know that or is a narrative that is being perpetuated by the media because he might be the number one pick and we might have the number one pick?

McCarron doesn't necessarily fit into the mold of past Hue QB's. When he's had the opportunity, he's tried to get more athletic QB's and guys with above average arms. Most of his QB's have fit into that mold. 

I like all of the top prospects so far, but at this point I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we targeted a guy like Darnold or even Lamar Jackson at this point. Wins + college experience + larger arms. I don't know how to feel about that at this current moment.

[Bigalow80]

For the first time in a really long time, I actually listened to a Browns Press Conference. It was the same old blah blah blah speak from management about the same old wanting to win stuff that every person ever hired as a coach and GM have said. What I found most interesting and NOT A SINGLE REPORTER asked the follow-up to is this: Haslam indicated that both him AND sashi had started the search for a person with a football background over 4 weeks ago!

1.) What happened to all of a sudden add this dimension? Whose decision was that?

2.) Why was Sashi involved if Haslam knew he was going to fire him? 

3.) How much did Sashi also participate in this process? If he did, was he made aware of what was going to happen? 

4.) Was the position originally supposed to be a "GM" position or was it a Pres/Ops type of position? 

5.) Why was Sashi let go if he participated in this search? He clearly has a very good understanding of player value and contracts. If it was supposed to be a Pres/ops position, why couldn't Dorsey supersede in player control? 

6.) Did Dorsey force Haslam into firing Sashi? Did he not want him around? Was there an ultimatum given?

7.) If all of this were true, is it because Haslam still wants everyone answering to him and not a President type roll? If that's the case, Haslam is even MORE OF FOOL! 

I think Dorsey will be fine as a GM. I don't love the move of hiring Dorsey, because I don't think his draft picks were all that good. He had some hits, but he had a whole bunch of misses in the first few rounds. Really bad misses too. He also gave out some really bad contracts as well. I definitely agree that the Browns needed a football guy like Dorsey supervising the whole thing with final 53 man approval, but I also felt Sashi was a huge asset to keep around. 1.5 years to make his plan work was never going to happen. Sashi told you that from the beginning. This was going to take time. He set this team up to be successful in the future and (hopefully they are), he will get zero credit. Dorsey will be the guy who "turned" this franchise around when really Sashi was the one who set it up to have over $100 million in cap space, 5 picks in the top 65 and a roster that is significantly better and younger than when he took over. Sashi missed on the qb's. No doubt this is why he was fired. That being said, his knowledge of contracts and player values are spot on in negotiating. This is not a poor Sashi post, but more of a once again the owner is the one without any patience or real FB knowledge who is throwing a kink into everything. Haslam wants a "traditional" run football organization, but yet he refuses to remove himself and his F**^&g WIFE from the equation. This is why there is so much turnover. I wanted a President not a GM to run this team. 

[hoorta]

57 minutes ago, Nero said:

I always thought of the "consensus" as something substantial within the front office work, mostly when selecting players and in FA, not in the coach-FO relation.

If it was mostly we pick 'em you coach 'em that rarely works. Coach has to have some input as to the types of players he's looking for. 

[Nero]

20 minutes ago, hoorta said:

If it was mostly we pick 'em you coach 'em that rarely works. Coach has to have some input as to the types of players he's looking for. 

I mean, the coach has some input, but his vote is similar to other assistants. Let's say he asks for a veteran receiver, then they look in the FA and decide to bring Britt. 

Or previous to the draft he gives a list of position needs and prospects he would like, then they decide which way is the best to fulfill those requests. 

Anyway, what I don't like is that they have to report separately to Jimmy. That means that any discussion or confrontation may be approached by the back door, instead of everyone reporting at the same time to the owner in a meeting. Jimmy has to be the owner, not the messenger or the general manager.

 

[hoorta]

32 minutes ago, Nero said:

I mean, the coach has some input, but his vote is similar to other assistants. Let's say he asks for a veteran receiver, then they look in the FA and decide to bring Britt. 

Or previous to the draft he gives a list of position needs and prospects he would like, then they decide which way is the best to fulfill those requests. 

Anyway, what I don't like is that they have to report separately to Jimmy. That means that any discussion or confrontation may be approached by the back door, instead of everyone reporting at the same time to the owner in a meeting. Jimmy has to be the owner, not the messenger or the general manager.

 

Just a what if Nero- Regarding Britt. Coach says "I need a wr, and the FO says "OK, here's Kenny!!" Coach says "God no, anybody but him!" They sign the guy anyway. Think the Coach might be pissed? With Britt just getting sent packing, I wouldn't bet against that's exactly what happened. 

[Nero]

25 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Just a what if Nero- Regarding Britt. Coach says "I need a wr, and the FO says "OK, here's Kenny!!" Coach says "God no, anybody but him!" They sign the guy anyway. Think the Coach might be pissed? With Britt just getting sent packing, I wouldn't bet against that's exactly what happened. 

Me neither, I wouldn't bet against that. But I don't trust Hue evaluating talent either.

[Canton Dawg]

59 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Just a what if Nero- Regarding Britt. Coach says "I need a wr, and the FO says "OK, here's Kenny!!" Coach says "God no, anybody but him!" They sign the guy anyway. Think the Coach might be pissed? With Britt just getting sent packing, I wouldn't bet against that's exactly what happened. 

It was reported that Greg Williams warned the Browns about Britt’s shenanigans, but obviously those warnings fell on deaf ears.

[Marc1971]

If he wants to get innovative he should trade Jimmy Haslam.

[Canton Dawg]

31 minutes ago, Marc1971 said:

If he wants to get innovative he should trade Jimmy Haslam.

Trade? $hit I would give him away.

[Harry Buffalo]

So people have been mentioning that his drafts haven't been great. I'm going to say this. He did inherit a team with good talent that severely under performed the season prior due to injuries and lack of a QB. He immediately traded for a QB his coach could us to win games. He immediately signed a WR his coach wanted. He drafted several players that are now average to above average starters from all levels of the draft and he 3 other mid round players who are pro bowl/all pro level talents. I mean Sheet the guy even drafted Ware who would have likely been all rp this year if not for his knee injury and Hunt being a beast. I don't know most of the names of the guys on the list of his drafted players, but I'm also not a chiefs fan. I'll trust the judgement of what most others have said about that group of players and this guys evaluation skills. They are damn good.

[wargograw]

9 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

The UCLA/USC game is a beautiful and popular hotspot?

I wonder what the beaches are like near the concession stand.

LA is. 

8 hours ago, hoorta said:

Cal, in his post Sashi firing press conference, Hue was specifically asked about getting an OC. I sort of buy his explanation that the offence is\was so talent depleted, he didn't want an OC who looked so bad he'd have to fire him. Oh, he knows- as he said "it's performance based" and my performance hasn't been what it needs to be. I suppose it would look bad if he came out and said "I've sucked so far as a coach". 

It was posited by some here from the beginning, is a lawyer bean counter fit to run an NFL organization? I think Jimmy decided that answer was NO. 

I'll posit this one Tour. We don't know (but Haslam sure does) just how much of a "consensus" there really was. If Hue was constantly getting shot down and overruled by Sashi- when with 20\20 hindsight his suggestions on player acquisitions were dead on, and Sashi and DePo's were crap, draw your own conclusion. What if: Hue was Ok with both Wentz and Watson (remember the supposed phone call to Deshawn?) and to top it off got Kizer (who he probably didn't want) that screams "analytics pick" rammed down his throat, well- I'd probably like a tad more input too. Why do I think that's the case? Read between the lines in Jimmy's goodbye to Sashi- thanks for all the picks, I don't trust you to make them. So much for consensus- Sashi had the final say. Apparently he was asked if it was OK to bring in a Dorsey type to help in that regard, and it was like nope, everything is just hunky-dory. We're going to nail the 2018 draft. That and (care to bet it wasn't deliberately botched) McCarron deal sealed Sashi's fate. BTW DePo's all time stupid comment about Wentz not being a top 20 qb proves when push came to shove who was making the picks.  

And apparently War- he took those opinions and  made his own decision, if there was no consensus- looks like Haslam didn't think much of them. 

It’s interestig how the loudest complainers are those who have no idea how Sashi’s system worked. 

7 hours ago, Tim Couch Pulls Out said:

 

Yeah, probably. He's pretty much thought to be a solid GM.

His draft record isn't bad. It's not fantastic but it's not bad either.  He's a "football guy" who places an emphasis on athletic QB's with a decent amount of college experience and a lot of wins...so naturally you can see why Jimmy loved him so much. 

There's probably going to be three or four open GM positions this year, I think he would have landed with someone. 

Why was he fired?

[hoorta]

3 minutes ago, wargograw said:

 

It’s interesting how the loudest complainers are those who have no idea how Sashi’s system worked. 

ROTFLMAO!!! And YOU  do, on the Browns payroll or something? You have no better freaking idea what the inside dealing in Berea was- than I do. I can tell you one thing for sure. It took exactly one day with Sashi gone to tell Kenny Britt to get lost. Hate to bust your bubble. Defend that one War. Nah Brown wasn't an arrogant knowitall that was never wrong about his "process". Pull your head out of your a$$, it's one of many major screw ups he wouldn't take responsibility for- and was forcing a substandard POS on Hue. Probably Kizer, and whoops Wentz isn't a top 20 QB, dwell on that one for a few minutes. 

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

46 minutes ago, wargograw said:

LA is. 

It’s interestig how the loudest complainers are those who have no idea how Sashi’s system worked. 

Why was he fired?

Because he couldn’t get along with Reid and he would occasionally go rogue.

[hoorta]

On 12/8/2017 at 11:41 AM, Tour2ma said:

It will be interesting to see what other changes come in the FO... both resignations as well as terminations. To see how much of the consensus machine being built remains by the time April rolls around.

Tour, love ya guy- but it's becoming clearer by the minute- the "consensus process" is\was a myth, perpetuated by gee, Sashi? The other voices in the room were being summarily ignored in the decision making process. Even after with 20\20 hindsight- they happened to be dead right- DUH!!! Process improvement involves realizing mistakes will be made, and be willing to correct them. 

If you're so damn freaking sure of yourself that my way is gonna work, regardless of what those dissident voices are saying- you got an ego problem that needs to be taken down a notch. My 0.02 Thanks Jimmy- Mission accomplished. 

 

[flyingfooldoug]

Consensus? Ya right. That flew out the window 10 minutes after the Haslam's laid it out. Every local media outlet said so too. It was just, keep the FO in place for continuity and nothing else. Each one went to Jimmah separately. Ya consensus...lol.  It never happened the way it was stated and to the folks that think the process was the "bomb".... It blew up many, many moons ago. 

[miktoxic]

consensus has been tied to death wars and global rot since eve sucked adam's twinkie.

 

 

[jiggins7919]

21 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

It will be interesting to see what other changes come in the FO... both resignations as well as terminations. To see how much of the consensus machine being built remains by the time April rolls around.

When I try to objectively look at past two years, there's certainly enough blame to go around, including some to Hue. What we don't know, and what we never will, is just how much Hue had a voice in passing on Wentz, Watson, and whoever else. It's been reported that Hue wanted Goff badly until Carson Wentz came to town and blew him away his intelligence and abilities to process football information. Did Hue ask to draft him? Did Sashi override him in the quest to acquire more picks? Because I gotta tell ya, that ALONE would be enough reason for me to fire Sashi's butt and keep Hue Jackson. Granted, there's no way to know if Wentz would have done as well with us, and there's no way to know if he'd be an MVP candidate with our dismal team in year 2. But I feel he'd be great with us, and I think he would have won a few games last year, and a few more this year. Additionally, we'd FINALLY have the piece we've needed to build around that we haven't had in a generation. 

Now, I haven't heard if Hue wanted Deshaun Watson, but I did read he wanted Malik Hooker instead of trading down. Hooker was having a somewhat normal rookie season, in that he made some mistakes and he made some nice plays (like interceptions...ahem...JABRIL). From what I read, Hooker looks like a potential star, and his season was derailed by a terrible injury. Regardless, here's yet another example of Sashi screwing up. Yes I remember the stupid video showing our coaches so excited about drafting Peppers, and looking back it really makes them look ignorant. I'm not a fan who typically calls young players "busts" after one year, but boy...Peppers is on my crap list. He looks useless. And Gregg Williams is a guy known for taking talent and placing them in the right place to succeed. 

When Hue and Sashi first came on, they harped on the importance of getting the QB position right. Over and over we heard about it. They gave us RG III, Cody Kessler, Josh McCown, Kevin Hogan, and Deshone Kizer. One of those guys isn't in the league anymore, and the other one not on our roster lead a talent-starved to 5 or 6 wins this year. The other 3 remaining on our roster have yet to win a game they started. Keeping true to my policy of refraining to call rookies busts, I'll give Kizer the benefit of the doubt since he's young, we have little talent, we can't run the ball, and our defense sucks. That being said, Kizer has been terrible and he's driving me insane. He literally can't score touchdowns. He can't consistently deliver the ball where he needs to. Has he improved since day 1? Of course he has. But when the bar is SO low, it's difficult NOT to improve, right? Our defense gives up a passer rating of 102. Kizer's rating is 53. Let that digest...if you can. Kizer made some truly beautiful passes against the Bolts, he really did. But it's the passes he missed that stand out a bit more to me. For instance, when Bosa strip-sacked him, Kizer missed Devalve in the end zone. It would not have been "easy", but the play appeared to be there if he read the defense quickly and released it. He also missed a handful of passes to Gordon that again, not EASY, but definitely throws he has to make. One play in particular was especially egregious because Hue did his job and schemed him open. I think it's our "monster" formation or something? Anyway, it's the one where we had like 6 receivers, 3 each side, and Kizer missed Gordon completely when he had a step. There was NOBODY inside or deep on the defense, and Kizer just had to lead him to the inside and in stride for a touchdown. These are the plays we NEVER MAKE, and they're the ones that prevent us from winning. 

Sashi whiffed on Kenny Britt, cut Taylor Gabriel, didn't fix our qb situation, and simply didn't add enough talent. But there's something else to this dynamic of keeping Hue Jackson, too. Suppose we fire everyone, and LITERALLY start all over again. Who the heck are we going to get to come in and lead our team? We're going to be back to the Mike Pettine days where we have to hire the 6th candidate on our list. Yeah I know Pettine won 7 games, but you saw how quickly THAT crap lasted. Did any team burn up HIS phone when he was let go? Don't think so. But if Hue Jackson and Gregg Williams were let go, I guarantee you they'd have big jobs instantly. We have coaches that other teams would want, regardless of the atrocious record. Can they coach better? Yes. Have they made mistakes? Absolutely. But I really think we have coaches that can take us where we want to go, and if we can JUST get the QB position nailed down, I believe we'll see the improvement we've been desperate for! 

[stillmotion]

1 hour ago, jiggins7919 said:

Peppers is on my crap list. He looks useless. And Gregg Williams is a guy known for taking talent and placing them in the right place to succeed. 

One theory is that Sashi decided to take peppers and Williams wanted Hooker. Williams couldn't fathom the pick, and sent Peppers on an island so we get a better safety next season.