From nobody to the top of the first round of the draft - Josh Allen

[Tour2ma]

Yeah... cause to apologize is weak.

 

Use of a liberal icon's (and Obama appointee) videos noted...

[Tour2ma]

[Tour2ma]

This thought just occurred to me as being the summation of why I cannot get behind Allen...

Collegiate QB prospects are far more likely to fail down than they are to fail up.

[LogicIsForSquares]

https://twitter.com/MikeClayNFL/status/960169194372452352

Worst final FBS season off-target rates among top QB prospects last 3 years: Josh Allen 16.3% DeShone Kizer 14.5% Jeff Driskel 14.4% Connor Cook 13.5% C Hackenberg 13.4%

[calfoxwc]

so, AGAIN...it's getting boring with the hate. from your own link:

*********************************************************

redzone‏ @Covertwo81 13h13 hours ago

Replying to @MikeClayNFL

Allen's last 5 games-10 TDs, 0 interceptions and the bad play by the other 3 qbs last game, and his poor supporting cast, lack of short passes & shotgun to pad stats like the others. Players improve & he changed mechanics & improved.

***********************************************************

kizer played at NOTRE DAME. doesn't see the field.

driskel played at FLORIDA and LOUISIANA TECH

connor cook played at MICHIGAN STATE

hackenburg played at PENN STATE

who were their wr's? offensive line? te's? running backs? type of offense?

Allen took little Wyoming to two bowl games on his shoulders.

[LogicIsForSquares]

40 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

so, AGAIN...it's getting boring with the hate. from your own link:

*********************************************************

redzone‏ @Covertwo81 13h13 hours ago

Replying to @MikeClayNFL

Allen's last 5 games-10 TDs, 0 interceptions and the bad play by the other 3 qbs last game, and his poor supporting cast, lack of short passes & shotgun to pad stats like the others. Players improve & he changed mechanics & improved.

***********************************************************

kizer played at NOTRE DAME. doesn't see the field.

driskel played at FLORIDA and LOUISIANA TECH

connor cook played at MICHIGAN STATE

hackenburg played at PENN STATE

who were their wr's? offensive line? te's? running backs? type of offense?

Allen took little Wyoming to two bowl games on his shoulders.

Facts don't have opinions.  2+2 = 4 is not up for debate. Allen performed that way. His accuracy never got better from highschool all the way through college and he was the common denominator. I don't hate him. I would just prefer the Browns not be the one to try and move mountains for Allen so he can reach a skill level that he has never been able to achieve at any level of football. Why chance that at 1 or 4? 

I don't see any tangible evidence that a QB dramatically gets better after being average against high school and college competition. 

[calfoxwc]

I understand. But he went to a small hs, smaller college, one of three in town. Firebaugh hs was founded in 2005. Not an established powerhouse. And he was only 6'3", 180 lbs.

I look at it like it's a team game, and stats depend on circumstances.

A rb that goes to a small school with a poor offensive line and not much of a qb....does that mean they wouldn't be a star

if they had played at one of the top universities in the country? I just think stats being attributed solely on the quality of the qb is a bunch of bullhockey.

Ask yourself this - if rosen had gone to Wyoming, do you think he would have led them to

a bowl game? I say, NOPE. Would rosen have been successful? NOPE, says I.

Would rosen ever have gone to Wyoming? NOPE.

 

[LogicIsForSquares]

59 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

I understand. But he went to a small hs, smaller college, one of three in town. Firebaugh hs was founded in 2005. Not an established powerhouse. And he was only 6'3", 180 lbs.

I look at it like it's a team game, and stats depend on circumstances.

A rb that goes to a small school with a poor offensive line and not much of a qb....does that mean they wouldn't be a star

if they had played at one of the top universities in the country? I just think stats being attributed solely on the quality of the qb is a bunch of bullhockey.

Ask yourself this - if rosen had gone to Wyoming, do you think he would have led them to

a bowl game? I say, NOPE. Would rosen have been successful? NOPE, says I.

Would rosen ever have gone to Wyoming? NOPE.

 

A good athlete playing at a rinky dink school is also playing against talent from other rinky dink schools. Single A ball is single A ball from school to school. I know. I played Single A ball. A few guys who went on to play D-II football looked like world beaters at that level.

 

If grandma had balls, she would be grandpa. I don’t give a hot sh-it about Rosen. He has his own issues and pluses. 

 

[jbluhm86]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

I understand. But he went to a small hs, smaller college, one of three in town. Firebaugh hs was founded in 2005. Not an established powerhouse. And he was only 6'3", 180 lbs.

I look at it like it's a team game, and stats depend on circumstances.

A rb that goes to a small school with a poor offensive line and not much of a qb....does that mean they wouldn't be a star

if they had played at one of the top universities in the country? I just think stats being attributed solely on the quality of the qb is a bunch of bullhockey.

Ask yourself this - if rosen had gone to Wyoming, do you think he would have led them to

a bowl game? I say, NOPE. Would rosen have been successful? NOPE, says I.

Would rosen ever have gone to Wyoming? NOPE.

 

The "small school" excuse is wearing pretty thin at this point...

Ben Roethlisburger went to Miami University, my Alma mater, in the sh.itty MAC conference, and he still managed to throw twice as many TDs, have a better TD/INT ratio, and had a QB rating nearly 10 PTS higher than Josh Allen. 

Ben: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/ben-roethlisberger-1.html

Josh: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/josh-allen-7.html

You have to face the facts: Josh Allen has a North Korean missile for an arm; it may be strong, but at the end of the day, it's not hitting shi.t.

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, jbluhm86 said:

The "small school" excuse is wearing pretty thin at this point...

Ben Roethlisburger went to Miami University, my Alma mater, in the sh.itty MAC conference, and he still managed to throw twice as many TDs, have a better TD/INT ratio, and had a QB rating nearly 10 PTS higher than Josh Allen. 

Ben: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/ben-roethlisberger-1.html

Josh: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/josh-allen-7.html

You have to face the facts: Josh Allen has a North Korean missile for an arm; it may be strong, but at the end of the day, it's not hitting shi.t.

Thanks JB. the wife went to Miami, and we live a couple country roads up the way from Oxford in Dayton. Saw plenty of Ben at Miami, and he was dominant there with crazy stats. Cal's trying to spew crap Ben's Miami teams were way superior. If he doesn't like Ben, we can give him Joe Flacco at Delaware State 23 TD, 5 INT, 63 completion%.  Allen didn't dominate the Mountain West. It's apples to apples- Josh might have been playing with inferior teammates- but he was also playing against inferior competition. Couldn't even win MW Offensive player of the year- that honor went to Rasaad Penny, a guy more than a few here want us to draft- he DID dominate at the Mountain West level. Paying attention Cal?

Some team is going to fall in love with his rocket launcher arm- I just hope it isn't us.  

[calfoxwc]

4 hours ago, jbluhm86 said:

The "small school" excuse is wearing pretty thin at this point...

Ben Roethlisburger went to Miami University, my Alma mater, in the sh.itty MAC conference, and he still managed to throw twice as many TDs, have a better TD/INT ratio, and had a QB rating nearly 10 PTS higher than Josh Allen. 

Ben: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/ben-roethlisberger-1.html

Josh: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/josh-allen-7.html

You have to face the facts: Josh Allen has a North Korean missile for an arm; it may be strong, but at the end of the day, it's not hitting shi.t.

I went to Kent. You can't argue jack nothin. Kent was a doormat to Miami way back in the day. Rapistbooger went to a MAC powerhouse.

Miami has won 22 conference titles, 18 outright and four shared. ^[124]

^{Look below at their conference records historically, idiot. Rapistbooger went to the best MAC school in the conference.}

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_RedHawks_football

All-time win-loss-tie record

• 651–395–44 (.617)

Conference football championships

Miami has won 22 conference titles, 18 outright and four shared. ^[124]

Year	Conference	Coach	Record	Conference Record
1916	Ohio Athletic Conference	George Little	7–0–1	6–0–1
1917	Ohio Athletic Conference	George Rider	6–0–2	5–0–1
1918	Ohio Athletic Conference	George Rider	5–0–1	4–0–1
1921	Ohio Athletic Conference	George Little	8–0	7–0
1932	Buckeye Conference	Frank Wilton	7–1	–
1933†	Buckeye Conference	Frank Wilton	7–2	–
1936†	Buckeye Conference	Frank Wilton	7–1–1	–
1948	Mid-American Conference	George Blackburn	7–1–1	4–0
1950	Mid-American Conference	Woody Hayes	9–1	4–0
1954	Mid-American Conference	Ara Parseghian	8–1	4–0
1955	Mid-American Conference	Ara Parseghian	9–0	5–0
1957	Mid-American Conference	John Pont	6–3	5–0
1958	Mid-American Conference	John Pont	6–3	5–0
1965†	Mid-American Conference	Bo Schembechler	7–3	5–1
1966†	Mid-American Conference	Bo Schembechler	9–1	5–1
1973	Mid-American Conference	Bill Mallory	11–0	5–0
1974	Mid-American Conference	finger Crum	10–0–1	5–0
1975	Mid-American Conference	finger Crum	11–1	6–0
1977	Mid-American Conference	finger Crum	10–1	5–0
1986	Mid-American Conference	Tim Rose	8–4	6–2
2003	Mid-American Conference	Terry Hoeppner	13–1	8–0
2010	Mid-American Conference	Michael Haywood	10–4	7–1

† denotes co-champion

 

[calfoxwc]

so, jblew, you went there - you should have known that. But thanks for stepping in a cowpie.

[Bigalow80]

It's funny, all the mock drafts, reporters, etc. out there say it's Darnold going away...but I just can't help but feel as though it's going to be Allen. There are moments when I believe he could grow into the man, but then I am so risk adverse at the qb position, that I feel as though Darnold is the right call. The more I think about it, the more I really believe the browns are going to draft Allen as their qb of the future.

[jbluhm86]

41 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

I went to Kent. You can't argue jack nothin. Kent was a doormat to Miami way back in the day. Rapistbooger went to a MAC powerhouse.

That statement right there shows how desperate your argument has become. If you think that any football team in the MAC conference is a football powerhouse, you are on the verge of senility.

Face the facts: this whole meandering thread of yours is nothing but an attempt by you to fit a square peg into a round hole by trying to make Josh Allen out to be a better QB prospect than Josh Rosen, not because of superior skills or athletic merit, but simply because you can't stand the political viewpoints of Rosen. Its that simple; I know it, and everyone else who's debated your horsesh.it logic in this thread knows it too. You seem to be the only one who wants to continue to live in Wonderland, Alice.

[calfoxwc]

jblew sissy translation:

"well, der, blah blah blah blah blah, whine, scratch, blah, blah blah stupid stuff..."

look, anybody on this entire board can see the truth - Miami won all those titles over all those years,

and only ONCE did they lose two games in a season.

Meanwhile, at Kent:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Kent_State_Golden_Flashes_football_seasons

They only had three good seasons in a long time.

1954

1972

and 2012.

Yep - rapistbooger sure had some good stats vs Kent State.

idiot.

[Tour2ma]

6 hours ago, jbluhm86 said:

The "small school" excuse is wearing pretty thin at this point...

For shizzle...

How can a kid be top of the draft when he isn't near the top of his own conference?

Mountain West Player Passing Statistics - 2017

In order of Completion Percentage...

RK	PLAYER	TEAM	COMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	YDS/A	LONG	TD	INT	SACK	RAT
1	Kent Myers, QB	USU	124	197	62.9	1278	6.5	49	8	7	21	123.7
2	Brett Rypien, QB	BSU	218	348	62.6	2877	8.3	87	16	6	20	143.8
3	Marcus McMaryion, QB	FRES	218	351	62.1	2726	7.8	81	14	5	8	137.7
4	Nick Stevens, QB	CSU	284	459	61.9	3799	8.3	76	29	10	13	147.9
5	Dru Brown, QB	HAW	254	412	61.7	2785	6.8	85	18	8	30	129.0
6	Ty Gangi, QB	NEV	228	374	61.0	2746	7.3	82	25	11	7	138.8
7	Christian Chapman, QB	SDSU	146	243	60.1	1873	7.7	89	13	4	29	139.2
8	Josh Allen, QB	WYO	152	270	56.3	1812	6.7	47	16	6	22	127.8
9	Montel Aaron, QB	SJSU	126	225	56.0	1531	6.8	59	8	10	22	116.0
10	Jordan Love, QB	USU	129	235	54.9	1631	6.9	77	8	6	7	119.3
RK	PLAYER	TEAM	COMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	YDS/A	LONG	TD	INT	SACK	RAT
11	Armani Rogers, QB	UNLV	99	189	52.4	1471	7.8	94	6	5	22	122.9

Eighth out of 11? How 'bout Yards per Attempt?

RK	PLAYER	TEAM	COMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	YDS/A	LONG	TD	INT	SACK	RAT
1	Nick Stevens, QB	CSU	284	459	61.9	3799	8.3	76	29	10	13	147.9
2	Brett Rypien, QB	BSU	218	348	62.6	2877	8.3	87	16	6	20	143.8
3	Armani Rogers, QB	UNLV	99	189	52.4	1471	7.8	94	6	5	22	122.9
4	Marcus McMaryion, QB	FRES	218	351	62.1	2726	7.8	81	14	5	8	137.7
5	Christian Chapman, QB	SDSU	146	243	60.1	1873	7.7	89	13	4	29	139.2
6	Ty Gangi, QB	NEV	228	374	61.0	2746	7.3	82	25	11	7	138.8
7	Jordan Love, QB	USU	129	235	54.9	1631	6.9	77	8	6	7	119.3
8	Montel Aaron, QB	SJSU	126	225	56.0	1531	6.8	59	8	10	22	116.0
9	Dru Brown, QB	HAW	254	412	61.7	2785	6.8	85	18	8	30	129.0
10	Josh Allen, QB	WYO	152	270	56.3	1812	6.7	47	16	6	22	127.8
RK	PLAYER	TEAM	COMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	YDS/A	LONG	TD	INT	SACK	RAT
11	Kent Myers, QB	USU	124	197	62.9	1278	6.5	49	8	7	21	123.7

Oops... wrong direction. Maybe Rating?

RK	PLAYER	TEAM	COMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	YDS/A	LONG	TD	INT	SACK	RAT
1	Nick Stevens, QB	CSU	284	459	61.9	3799	8.3	76	29	10	13	147.9
2	Brett Rypien, QB	BSU	218	348	62.6	2877	8.3	87	16	6	20	143.8
3	Christian Chapman, QB	SDSU	146	243	60.1	1873	7.7	89	13	4	29	139.2
4	Ty Gangi, QB	NEV	228	374	61.0	2746	7.3	82	25	11	7	138.8
5	Marcus McMaryion, QB	FRES	218	351	62.1	2726	7.8	81	14	5	8	137.7
6	Dru Brown, QB	HAW	254	412	61.7	2785	6.8	85	18	8	30	129.0
7	Josh Allen, QB	WYO	152	270	56.3	1812	6.7	47	16	6	22	127.8
8	Kent Myers, QB	USU	124	197	62.9	1278	6.5	49	8	7	21	123.7
9	Armani Rogers, QB	UNLV	99	189	52.4	1471	7.8	94	6	5	22	122.9
10	Jordan Love, QB	USU	129	235	54.9	1631	6.9	77	8	6	7	119.3
RK	PLAYER	TEAM	COMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	YDS/A	LONG	TD	INT	SACK	RAT
11	Montel Aaron, QB	SJSU	126	225	56.0	1531	6.8	59	8	10	22	116.0

YES! Top seven... time to call it a day.

 

Anyone know if Brett Rypien is Mark's son? Kid might have some promise.

 

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

so, jblew, you went there - you should have known that. But thanks for stepping in a cowpie.

Yeah- nice try knocking Miami down when Ben was there. All those championships- only 2003 his junior year. 2001 and 2002 it was Toledo and Marshall. 

Still Cal- outside of Ben's junior year when they did have a good team- incidentally he completed 69% of his passes. BTW, that was an improvement from 63% his sophomore year.That's another world compared to Allen's 56%. BTW, I looked up Miami's leaders from that 13-1 year, and I didn't notice any names other than Ben who made a dent in the NFL. JB is right- saying Allen had inferior surrounding talent isn't much of an excuse for a poor completion%.  It's the same BS of anyone saying Mayfield's gaudy completion% is only due to him having superior surrounding talent. 

You had better hope that with better coaching he can improve his accuracy, but the odds say he probably won't be able to. What I most fear is Hue hypnotizing Dorsey and Haslam with the mantra- I can fix him, I can fix him, I can fix him, I can fix him, I can fix him, I can fix him, I can fix him.

[calfoxwc]

well, you can't coach away arrogance, entitlement, drunken chicken running, and a lack of leadership, love for the game, etc.

Miami was a power way back in the day when I was there. I just showed you how many titles they won. Ignore the facts at your

peril of being wrong about qb's. You'd think 56.x % was 40 points away from 63.x %

Come on, man.

[Dutch Oven]

What's amusing about Allen's pathetic completion % is his hilariously low yards per attempt. 

[Tour2ma]

4 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

What's amusing about Allen's pathetic completion % is his hilariously low yards per attempt. 

It's called a "dual threat".

[hoorta]

5 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

well, you can't coach away arrogance, entitlement, drunken chicken running, and a lack of leadership, love for the game, etc.

Miami was a power way back in the day when I was there. I just showed you how many titles they won. Ignore the facts at your

peril of being wrong about qb's. You'd think 56.x % was 40 points away from 63.x %

Come on, man.

I just pointed out Miami didn't win the MAC the first two seasons Ben was at Miami. IIRC Chad Pennington was the QB on the competition. Yeah, at the time YOU were going to Kent (early 70s) Miami had decent teams- But after Ben, they've been pretty mediocre. Hardly the cream of the MAC. Cherry-pick your stats much?  https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/miami-oh/

Cal- I still can't get over anytime one of us points out we have our doubts about Allen being the second coming of John Elway, you have to start ragging on Rosen. The two aren't related. 

[Tour2ma]

5 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

well, you can't coach away arrogance, entitlement, drunken chicken running, and a lack of leadership, love for the game, etc.

You'd think 56.x % was 40 points away from 63.x %

First... I don't know why you'd want to "coach away" "love of the game"...

Second... 56% is 700 points away from 63%.... 700 "basis points". Rick Santelli would be ashamed of you for not knowing that.

[Tour2ma]

Nick Veronica‏Verified account @NickVeronica

Was curious why @PFF had Josh Allen as its sixth-best QB in the class. This chart shows why. Here's him vs. their No. 1 QB, Baker Mayfield.

6:45 AM - 3 Apr 2018

[TexasAg1969]

7 hours ago, hoorta said:

Cal- I still can't get over anytime one of us points out we have our doubts about Allen being the second coming of John Elway, you have to start ragging on Rosen. The two aren't related. 

He'll be ragging on him well after the draft no longer matters.

[calfoxwc]

8 hours ago, hoorta said:

Cal- I still can't get over anytime one of us points out we have our doubts about Allen being the second coming of John Elway, you have to start ragging on Rosen. The two aren't related. 

yo - I quit talking about Allen, and the haters just kept on and on and on.

The rosen thread looked lonely, I just counter the crap. It is getting boring now, but it was fun for a good while there.

Rosen is out of the picture, to me - it's Darnold probably, and Allen is the other choice.

Seems like some people are angry that Allen might be the pick, and they are campaigning to make it not happen.

I know Alfred E. Rosen won't be the pick. No worries here. This guy is irratating - but it's all true.

 

[calfoxwc]

8 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

First... I don't know why you'd want to "coach away" "love of the game"...

yeah, that was an erroneous. "lack of loving the game" was what it was supposed to be.

[calfoxwc]

8 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Was curious why @PFF had Josh Allen as its sixth-best QB in the class. This chart shows why. Here's him vs. their No. 1 QB, Baker Mayfield.

stats are bs when you don't consider the players around him, offensive line, ability of wr's to get open, etc etc etcetc etc.

That has been my pick all along.

[Tour2ma]

6 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

stats are bs when you don't consider the players around him, offensive line, ability of wr's to get open, etc etc etcetc etc.

That has been my pick all along.

PFF doesn't use "stats"...

[calfoxwc]

they graphed stats, correct? how can you create a graph without values? "Come on, man."

 

[Tour2ma]

20 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

they graphed stats, correct? how can you create a graph without values? "Come on, man."

No... Try actually looking at the charts rather than... how do you put it??? Oh yeah.... "Knee-jerking"

 

But take heart... Dane Brugler's Top 100 is out and Allen was #30 on his board...

Just above Jackson (#32)...

... but slightly trailing the other three QBs (Danold #6, Rosen #9, Mayfield #10)