From nobody to the top of the first round of the draft - Josh Allen

[TexasAg1969]

Tour - you have just been treated to the equivalent of a twitter storm from a desperate man needing to convince that a turd is not really a turd, it's just great fertilizer.

[calfoxwc]

Peter Kind is a far more excellent source than Tour's alterego

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2018/4/3/17193310/peter-king-links-josh-allen-to-browns-nfl-draft

MMQB’s Peter King switched on the rumor mill, links Josh Allen to Browns

The Cleveland Browns aren’t likely to pass taking a quarterback with the first overall pick, and now a John Dorsey-adjacent source thinks Josh Allen is the selection.

By Andrea Hangst Apr 3, 2018, 1:24pm EDT

 

Count the MMQB’s Peter King among the speculators. In this week’s column, he provided insight on the Browns’ plans for the No. 1 pick, and he’s landed on one prospective pro passer: Oh yes, it’s Wyoming’s Josh Allen.

According to King, some degree of friend of Browns general manager John Dorsey believes that Dorsey’s plans are to take Allen at No. 1 (and Penn State running back Saquon Barkley at No. 4). This “Friend of Dorsey,” as King termed it, reportedly said, “I would be surprised if he traded down... This would be his chance to take his two offensive cornerstones for the next eight or 10 years.”

 

[Tour2ma]

lol... my ego is unaltered... and a source close to Dorsey should know, not think...

 

Even Hue knows the truth of it...

But Jackson said last week -- and has said before -- that although a quarterback can improve fundamentally, he usually is what he is when it comes to completion percentage.

"I think you said it, you never feel like that that's something that you can just totally fix," Jackson said. "I think you can help improve it, but fix it, that's kind of hard to do. But at the same time, I watched him improve with some fundamentals that he needed to work on to give himself a chance to be more accurate."

http://www.espn.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/94321/browns-must-decide-if-josh-allens-talent-can-overcome-his-lack-of-accuracy

Also from the article:

• Allen also did not have a high percentage of passes dropped. Wyoming's 4.2 drop percentage was barely higher than the national average of 4.1 and less than UCLA's 6.3 for Rosen.
• Pro Football Focus' analytics and stats show that Allen's 56 percent number had little to do with the talent around him. PFF reports that Allen completed just 13 of 42 passes thrown downfield (more than 20 yards from the line of scrimmage) and 1-of-13 when throwing deep to the right. PFF eliminated drops, spikes, balls knocked down and throws affected by the pass rush, and Allen completed 65.7 percent, which ranked 86th in the country. He was 51.4 percent against pressure (79th) and 71.8 percent from a "clean" pocket (72nd).
• Football Outsiders is another analytics site that has developed its own metric, which is called QBase, and it has been accurate in predicting how a quarterback will transfer to the NFL. Allen receives the lowest grade by far of the top draftable quarterbacks, and the site calls his arm "a howitzer without a target."

Then there's...

The Sub-60 Percent Club

Quarterbacks drafted in the past 10 years (Rounds 1-3) who had a career completion rate below 60 percent in college:

Year	Player	College Pct.	Pro Pct.	NFL W-L and status
* - has not played; **- six passes
Note: Dolphins' Pat White not included because he was drafted as WildDawg quarterback
2016	Christian Hackenberg	56.1	NP*	0-0, with Jets
2016	Jacoby Brissett	59.5	59.2	4-12, with Colts
2011	Jake Locker	54.0	57.5	9-14, out of league
2011	Colin Kaepernick	58.2	59.7	28-30, out of league
2011	Ryan Mallett	57.8	55.1	3-5, unsigned free agent
2009	Matt Stafford	57.1	62.0	60-65, Lions starter
2009	Josh Freeman	59.1	57.6	25-36, out of league
2008	Matt Ryan	59.9	64.9	96-63, Falcons starter
2008	Chad Henne	59.7	58.3	18-35, Chiefs backup
2008	Kevin O'Connell	57.7	66.7**	0-0, out of league

[calfoxwc]

eh.

Penn State

NC State/Florida

U. of Washington

Nevada

Michigan/Arkansas

Georgia

Kansas State

Boston College

Michigan

San Diego State

********************************

Thanks for making my point for me. See, every single of those qb's you listed, Tour - was from a far bigger school, except for

little San Diego State. And, from 2010 to 2017, every year San Diego went to a Bowl  game. So, they were a well established winner.

Not only did Allen carry Wyoming on his shoulders to two bowl games while they struggled previously, you should note that from your own list, Stafford improved his completion percentage from 57 to 62, Matt Ryan improved 59.9 to 64.9, and O'Connell improved from college, 57.7 to 66.7 in the pros. HAHAHA. That's funny. So it HAS been done. There ya go. THANKS !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_San_Diego_State_Aztecs_bowl_games

 

 

 

 

[hoorta]

On 4/6/2018 at 8:34 PM, calfoxwc said:

https://www.ohio.com/akron/sports/browns/josh-allen-continues-to-show-growth-as-browns-owner-jimmy-haslam-other-members-of-team-brass-watch-wyoming-pro-day

 

He doesn’t throw with great timing or anticipation, and his arm is so strong that he can make up for it. The thing that he has to learn how to do is learn how to play the position where he can layer throws.”

Why is he even in the discussion for #1 overall? 

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

O'Connell improved from college, 57.7 to 66.7 in the pros. HAHAHA. That's funny. So it HAS been done. There ya go. THANKS !

If you would have taken 1/8th of a second, you would have seen that O'Connell's improvement from college was based on six pro passes.

 

[Dutch Oven]

48 minutes ago, hoorta said:

He doesn’t throw with great timing or anticipation, and his arm is so strong that he can make up for it. The thing that he has to learn how to do is learn how to play the position where he can layer throws.”

Why is he even in the discussion for #1 overall? 

It is laughable.

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

He doesn’t throw with great timing or anticipation, and his arm is so strong that he can make up for it. The thing that he has to learn how to do is learn how to play the position where he can layer throws.”

Why is he even in the discussion for #1 overall? 

gee, go ask all those "experts" that have him going #1 overall. I didn't tell em to do it.

[Flugel]

4 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

lol... my ego is unaltered... and a source close to Dorsey should know, not think...

 

Even Hue knows the truth of it...

But Jackson said last week -- and has said before -- that although a quarterback can improve fundamentally, he usually is what he is when it comes to completion percentage.

"I think you said it, you never feel like that that's something that you can just totally fix," Jackson said. "I think you can help improve it, but fix it, that's kind of hard to do. But at the same time, I watched him improve with some fundamentals that he needed to work on to give himself a chance to be more accurate."

http://www.espn.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/94321/browns-must-decide-if-josh-allens-talent-can-overcome-his-lack-of-accuracy

Also from the article:

• Allen also did not have a high percentage of passes dropped. Wyoming's 4.2 drop percentage was barely higher than the national average of 4.1 and less than UCLA's 6.3 for Rosen.
• Pro Football Focus' analytics and stats show that Allen's 56 percent number had little to do with the talent around him. PFF reports that Allen completed just 13 of 42 passes thrown downfield (more than 20 yards from the line of scrimmage) and 1-of-13 when throwing deep to the right. PFF eliminated drops, spikes, balls knocked down and throws affected by the pass rush, and Allen completed 65.7 percent, which ranked 86th in the country. He was 51.4 percent against pressure (79th) and 71.8 percent from a "clean" pocket (72nd).
• Football Outsiders is another analytics site that has developed its own metric, which is called QBase, and it has been accurate in predicting how a quarterback will transfer to the NFL. Allen receives the lowest grade by far of the top draftable quarterbacks, and the site calls his arm "a howitzer without a target."

Then there's...

The Sub-60 Percent Club

Quarterbacks drafted in the past 10 years (Rounds 1-3) who had a career completion rate below 60 percent in college:

Year	Player	College Pct.	Pro Pct.	NFL W-L and status
* - has not played; **- six passes
Note: Dolphins' Pat White not included because he was drafted as WildDawg quarterback
2016	Christian Hackenberg	56.1	NP*	0-0, with Jets
2016	Jacoby Brissett	59.5	59.2	4-12, with Colts
2011	Jake Locker	54.0	57.5	9-14, out of league
2011	Colin Kaepernick	58.2	59.7	28-30, out of league
2011	Ryan Mallett	57.8	55.1	3-5, unsigned free agent
2009	Matt Stafford	57.1	62.0	60-65, Lions starter
2009	Josh Freeman	59.1	57.6	25-36, out of league
2008	Matt Ryan	59.9	64.9	96-63, Falcons starter
2008	Chad Henne	59.7	58.3	18-35, Chiefs backup
2008	Kevin O'Connell	57.7	66.7**	0-0, out of league

Great presentation, sound reasoning and excellent use of examples.   

[TexasAg1969]

5 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

If you would have taken 1/8th of a second, you would have seen that O'Connell's improvement from college was based on six pro passes.

 

LOL-therefore 4 completed passes with the 66.7% round-up..

[Flugel]

7 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

gee, go ask all those "experts" that have him going #1 overall. I didn't tell em to do it.

Experts as in the Peter King hearsay types?   

 

 

 

 

[Dutch Oven]

2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

LOL-therefore 4 completed passes with the 66.7% round-up..

It's almost impressive how consistently inept cal is. 

[7moses7]

Don’t forget Tyrod Taylor 

VT 57.2 % comp 

NFL 62.4%. 

Isn’t he on the Browns roster?

[Dutch Oven]

3 minutes ago, 7moses7 said:

Don’t forget Tyrod Taylor 

VT 57.2 % comp 

NFL 62.4%. 

Isn’t he on the Browns roster?

As most likely a one-year bridge QB on a team that has won one game in two seasons.

A little different than using the #1 overall pick. 

[7moses7]

Possibly a bridge QB who improved his accuracy,who’s to say Allen can’t improve his accuracy after working on it and sitting and learning the pro game for a year 

[calfoxwc]

2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

LOL-therefore 4 completed passes with the 66.7% round-up..

so, you rosen groupies are saying that if a qb throws a lot more passes, his accuracy improves? LOL

you said a qb never improves in accuracy when he goes to the pros. So, that isn't true. NOW the feeble comeback is he didn't throw many passes. Ok, riddle the rest of the board with this:

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
Career	Fresno State					511	865	59.1	7631	8.8	8.9	53	22	148.3
*1991	Fresno State	Big West		QB	9	69	109	63.3	832	7.6	6.8	2	3	128.0
*1992	Fresno State	WAC		QB	13	188	360	52.2	3000	8.3	7.8	21	14	133.7
*1993	Fresno State	WAC		QB	12	254	396	64.1	3799	9.6	10.5	30	5	167.2

[Dutch Oven]

5 minutes ago, 7moses7 said:

Possibly a bridge QB who improved his accuracy,who’s to say Allen can’t improve his accuracy after working on it and sitting and learning the pro game for a year 

I'd be pretty upset if I used the #1 overall pick on a QB and only got a QB of Tyrod Taylor's ability. 

[7moses7]

Tyrod Taylor may very well be the best QB the Browns put on the field since Bernie Kosar, we shall see.

[Dutch Oven]

5 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

so, you rosen groupies are saying that if a qb throws a lot more passes, his accuracy improves? LOL

you said a qb never improves in accuracy when he goes to the pros. So, that isn't true. NOW the feeble comeback is he didn't throw many passes. Ok, riddle the rest of the board with this:

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
Career	Fresno State					511	865	59.1	7631	8.8	8.9	53	22	148.3
*1991	Fresno State	Big West		QB	9	69	109	63.3	832	7.6	6.8	2	3	128.0
*1992	Fresno State	WAC		QB	13	188	360	52.2	3000	8.3	7.8	21	14	133.7
*1993	Fresno State	WAC		QB	12	254	396	64.1	3799	9.6	10.5	30	5	167.2

What in the Wide Wide World of Sports? 

Did cal just have a stroke?

[calfoxwc]

So, Trent Dilfer's completion percentage was 63.3 "he's going to be a star in the NFL"

no, wait, his second year - he was only 52.2 percent. He won't make it in the NFL.

NO, wait... his third year he was 64.1 completion percentage. "HE IS GOING TO BE A STAR IN THE NFL"

what happened there? Maybe turnover of players around him?

yet, in his nice career in the NFL - over the years, he never threw for over 60 percent or higher completion rate.

1994	Tampa Bay	5	2	38	82	46.3	433	5.3	1	6	36.3
1995	Tampa Bay	16	16	224	415	54.0	2774	6.7	4	18	60.1
1996	Tampa Bay	16	16	267	482	55.4	2859	5.9	12	19	64.8
1997	Tampa Bay	16	16	217	386	56.2	2555	6.6	21	11	82.8
1998	Tampa Bay	16	16	225	429	52.4	2729	6.4	21	15	74.0
1999	Tampa Bay	10	10	146	244	59.8	1619	6.6	11	11	75.8
2000	Baltimore	11	8	134	226	59.3	1502	6.6	12	11	76.6
2001	Seattle	6	4	73	122	59.8	1014	8.3	7	4	92.0
2002	Seattle	6	6	94	168	56.0	1182	7.0	4	6	71.1
2003	Seattle	5	0	4	8	50.0	31	3.9	1	1	59.9
2004	Seattle	5	2	25	58	43.1	333	5.7	1	3	46.1
2005	Cleveland	11	11	199	333	59.8	2321	7.0	11	12	76.9
2007	San Francisco	7	6	113	219	51.6	1166	6.3	7	12	55.1
Career Totals		130	113	1759	3172	55.5	20518	6.5	113	129	70.2

[calfoxwc]

yet, he went to the superbowl. and won it.

Point being - a lot more factors that just a simple completion percentage stat makes a qb.

Baltimore Ravens

Dilfer signed with the Ravens on March 8, 2000 and became the backup for Tony Banks. After two straight losses and four straight weeks without an offensive touchdown, the Ravens replaced Banks with Dilfer. The Ravens would lose their third straight game and fail to score a touchdown for the fifth straight week. It would be the last time the Ravens would lose a game that season, or go without a touchdown. The Ravens finished the season winning seven straight to earn a wild card berth at 12–4. The 7–1 run also gave Dilfer a 45–39 record as a starter at that point.

In the playoffs, Dilfer went 3–0, and the Ravens advanced to Super Bowl XXXV in Tampa, Florida to meet the New York Giants. Halfway through the first quarter he connected with Brandon Stokley on a deep post for a 38-yard touchdown, badly beating Jason Sehorn. A third down 44-yard pass to Qadry Ismail would set up a field goal before halftime, to give Baltimore a 10–0 lead. The Ravens eventually won 34–7. Dilfer's game stats were 12 completions for 153 yards and 1 TD.^[4] Although one of Dilfer's passes was intercepted by linebacker Jessie Armstead and returned for a touchdown, the call was overturned due to a holding penalty against the Giants. The Los Angeles Times later described Dilfer as a game manager quarterback for the Ravens that season: He "wasn't elite, but he didn't make costly mistakes, and was supported by a dominant defense."^[5] Dilfer wasn't re-signed by the Ravens, making him the only quarterback to be let go after winning a Super Bowl.

[Dutch Oven]

Just now, 7moses7 said:

Tyrod Taylor may very well be the best QB the Browns put on the field since Bernie Kosar, we shall see.

That probably speaks to how bad the Browns have been since Kosar more than to Taylor's ability, but you are right, we shall see.

Taylor is a guy IMO who won't lose you many games, but isn't going to win you many either. On one hand, he doesn't turn the ball over, which will be a welcome change from last season, but on the other hand he's very limited as a passer. A draft guide I have said this about the Bills QB situation:

"After three years of mediocrity, the Bills are expected to move on from Taylor in the offseason... Taylor did an excellent job of protecting the ball and running with it, but he struggles to throw it, and the Bills' passing offense has suffered because of it."

[Dutch Oven]

10 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

So, Trent Dilfer's completion percentage was 63.3 "he's going to be a star in the NFL"

no, wait, his second year - he was only 52.2 percent. He won't make it in the NFL.

NO, wait... his third year he was 64.1 completion percentage. "HE IS GOING TO BE A STAR IN THE NFL"

what happened there? Maybe turnover of players around him?

yet, in his nice career in the NFL - over the years, he never threw for over 60 percent or higher completion rate.

1994	Tampa Bay	5	2	38	82	46.3	433	5.3	1	6	36.3
1995	Tampa Bay	16	16	224	415	54.0	2774	6.7	4	18	60.1
1996	Tampa Bay	16	16	267	482	55.4	2859	5.9	12	19	64.8
1997	Tampa Bay	16	16	217	386	56.2	2555	6.6	21	11	82.8
1998	Tampa Bay	16	16	225	429	52.4	2729	6.4	21	15	74.0
1999	Tampa Bay	10	10	146	244	59.8	1619	6.6	11	11	75.8
2000	Baltimore	11	8	134	226	59.3	1502	6.6	12	11	76.6
2001	Seattle	6	4	73	122	59.8	1014	8.3	7	4	92.0
2002	Seattle	6	6	94	168	56.0	1182	7.0	4	6	71.1
2003	Seattle	5	0	4	8	50.0	31	3.9	1	1	59.9
2004	Seattle	5	2	25	58	43.1	333	5.7	1	3	46.1
2005	Cleveland	11	11	199	333	59.8	2321	7.0	11	12	76.9
2007	San Francisco	7	6	113	219	51.6	1166	6.3	7	12	55.1
Career Totals		130	113	1759	3172	55.5	20518	6.5	113	129	70.2

He had a career QB rating of 70.2 and threw more interceptions than TDs. 

The Ravens won a Super Bowl with him because of one of the greatest defenses ever, and mediocre postseason competition. The Ravens were so impressed with Dilfer that they replaced him the next season. 

I'm struggling trying to understand your point here. 

[Dutch Oven]

What does an article detailing why college QBs struggle making the transition to the NFL have to do with Josh Allen struggling in college?

[Tour2ma]

10 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

If you would have taken 1/8th of a second, you would have seen that O'Connell's improvement from college was based on six pro passes.

And I even included the footnote in the copy/paste.

I swear the boy has the reading habits of a President...

[Tour2ma]

8 hours ago, Flugel said:

Great presentation, sound reasoning and excellent use of examples.   

Why thank you, sir...

Have I told you recently how extremely good-looking you are?

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, 7moses7 said:

Possibly a bridge QB who improved his accuracy,who’s to say Allen can’t improve his accuracy after working on it and sitting and learning the pro game for a year 

No one can say that he can't... and no one including me is saying he can't. All we are saying is that the odds are he won't.

Looking at the list we see two in ten... that's one in five "sub 60" that improves a rate far below the 50/50 shot that 1st Round QBs carry overall.

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

so, you rosen groupies are saying that if a qb throws a lot more passes, his accuracy improves? LOL

you said a qb never improves in accuracy when he goes to the pros.

And there it is... page 3 of the cal playbook.

"When losing an argument, make up a position you can win against and assign to those with whom you disagree."

[calfoxwc]

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/article39484191.html

Why star college QBs are struggling in the pros

By Laura Keeley

lkeeley@newsobserver.com

October 16, 2015 05:09 PM

Updated October 17, 2015 03:46 PM

It is a hundred-million dollar question: Where are the next great NFL quarterbacks?

On the heels of the notable struggles of former college stars such as Washington’s Robert Griffin III and Cleveland’s Johnny Manziel, the Wall Street Journal published an article entitled, “Why the NFL Has a Quarterback Crisis”. Several NFL coaches and executives were quoted pushing a similar theory: the proliferation of the no-huddle, spread offenses at the college level is churning out quarterbacks unprepared for success at the next level.

Why star college QBs are struggling in the pros

By Laura Keeley

lkeeley@newsobserver.com

 

October 16, 2015 05:09 PM

Updated October 17, 2015 03:46 PM

It is a hundred-million dollar question: Where are the next great NFL quarterbacks?

On the heels of the notable struggles of former college stars such as Washington’s Robert Griffin III and Cleveland’s Johnny Manziel, the Wall Street Journal published an article entitled, “Why the NFL Has a Quarterback Crisis”. Several NFL coaches and executives were quoted pushing a similar theory: the proliferation of the no-huddle, spread offenses at the college level is churning out quarterbacks unprepared for success at the next level.

“They don’t coach anything,” Buffalo Bills coach Rex Ryan was quoted as saying about college coaches.

Duke coach David Cutcliffe, one of the more celebrated quarterbacks coaches in the game, saw the article and chuckled to himself.

“I think that’s kind of nonsense talk, to be honest with you,” he said.

Trent Dilfer, the 14-year NFL veteran who now oversees the Nike and ESPN-backed Elite 11 high school quarterback competition, also saw the article. He tweeted it out, along with a one-word commentary: interesting.

There is no doubt that there are significant differences between the role of the quarterback at the college and NFL levels – “I could make a very strong argument that from a quarterback’s perspective, they are almost different sports,” Dilfer said. But he doesn’t buy the idea that all potentially great NFL signal callers have disappeared.

“When I hear the term, there’s no good quarterbacks coming or they’re all bad, it’s so wrong. High school quarterbacking is better than it’s ever been. The talent pool for quarterbacks is off-the-hook good. It is ridiculous how many kids have NFL potential.

“I saw 50 kids this year – 50! – that were better than me when I was 18. They were better than me when I was 20. Better than me maybe when I was a junior all-American (at Fresno State). They can do more with the ball. They are better athletes. They’ve been exposed to more football.”

Somewhere along the quarterback pipeline, there is a disconnect.

Uptempo pace slowing development

The NFL types are right about one thing: The version of the spread-option offense popular at the college level is markedly different from the offenses run in the pros.

Take former Baylor quarterback Bryce Petty, who completed 62.2 percent of his passes and threw for 8,055 yards and 61 touchdowns against just 10 interceptions in his final two years in Waco, Texas. He had to wait until the third day of the 2015 NFL draft to hear the Jets call his name with the 103rd overall pick in the 4th round.

“Honestly, when I did Bryce Petty’s film – and I love Bryce, he was my favorite quarterback in the whole draft, in terms of a project – but there were like 25 transferable snaps from the entire season,” Dilfer said. “I watched every snap, and there were, like, 25 times where he did something he was actually going to do in the NFL.”

Baylor is at the apex of the uptempo spread-offense trend, getting an offensive play off every 18 seconds in 2014, according to data from SB Nation’s Football Study Hall. In comparison, the fastest NFL team, the Philadelphia Eagles, ran an offensive play every 21.95 seconds, according to Football Outsiders – that would rank 29th in the FBS.

Locally, North Carolina ranked fourth nationally in terms of tempo, running a play every 18.8 seconds. Duke ran one every 22.2 seconds, good for 32nd nationally, and N.C. State’s play every 24 seconds ranks 69th. Duke and UNC run no-huddle offenses with spread elements and quarterbacks who can run and throw. The Wolfpack huddle, but quarterback Jacoby Brissett certainly fits the dual-threat mode.

Last season, UNC quarterback Marquise Williams ranked 11th in the ACC with an average of 60.23 rushing yards per game. Brissett had the next highest average for a quarterback with an average of 40.69 rushing yards per game, and he rushed for 167 yards in the Wolfpack’s best game of the year, a 35-7 win at UNC. Brissett is the best QB prospect out of the ACC for the 2016 NFL Draft, and he is projected by CBS Sports as a mid-to-late-round pick.

“He’s exactly what they want,” N.C. State coach Dave Doeren said of Brissett. “He’s big, he’s strong, he can make the throws, he’s intelligent, competitive, mobile, he puts in the time, mentally tough.”

No time to adjust

With college offenses moving at breakneck speed, a quarterback isn’t spending much time, if any, making pre-snap adjustments based on what the defense is showing, and he is probably taking less than 2.5 seconds after the ball is snapped to either throw it, hand it off, or tuck it and run himself. At the end of every play, as the referee spots the ball, college quarterbacks look to the sideline, where the play is signaled in either by a big sign held up or a staff member making various arm motions. And then it’s go time.

In the NFL, plays are radioed into the quarterback in complicated sentence-length strings, and then the quarterback evaluates the defense and makes any necessary adjustments before the snap.

“That’s the biggest thing that the pro guys are frustrated with, is that the college quarterback, for the most part, is managed from the sideline,” Dilfer said. “They are making very few dynamic decisions at the line of scrimmage or after the ball is snapped. Dynamic decision-making before the ball is snapped and after the ball is snapped is what separates the best pro quarterbacks from everybody else.

“I put no blame on the colleges – it has become so intense at the college level, winning and losing,” Dilfer said. “It is all about winning to generate revenue and filling the seats and paying for other programs, because football plays for the rest of your sports.

So if you have to win, you’re going to find the easiest, most repeatable way of winning. For the quarterback, that’s going to more of a catch-and-throw offense.”

But just because a team runs an up-tempo, spread-option offense doesn’t mean a coach can’t teach his quarterback the finer points of the position. At Duke, for example, starting quarterback Thomas Sirk practices taking snaps from under center (even though Duke has lined up in the shotgun exclusively for years), and his day always begins around 7:05 with a 45-minute briefing with offensive coordinator Scottie Montgomery, who breaks down film with him and relays whatever observations Cutcliffe has made.

“Regardless of what offense that we would run, I’m going to teach those guys defensive football,” Cutcliffe said. “If you understand defensive football and you have good fundamentals and good mechanics, then regardless of what style of offense you’re running, a guy can be fairly successful.”

Even the field is different

It’s more than just pace that differentiates the college from the pro game. The playing surface itself is different. In the NFL, the right and left hashmarks are 18 feet, 6 inches apart, in line with the goalposts. In college football, they are significantly wider at 40 feet apart. As all plays start either on or between the hashmarks, this meaningfully affects the set-up for offenses.

At the college level, if a play starts on the left hashmark, the wide side of the field, from the left hashmark to the right sideline – called the field side – is quite wide, leaving defensive backs with much ground to cover. The spread offense is predicated on spreading the defense out, getting superior wide receivers and running backs in one-on-one matchups with less quick defenders. Tackling in space is quite difficult, especially at the college level, where the talent level varies from player to player. Get the desired matchup, and let the skill player beat his man and rack up big gains.

With the narrower hashmarks, the field side never gets as wide as it does in the college game. This reduces the space the bigger, faster stronger, smarter and more prepared NFL defenders have to cover. And there aren’t large talent gaps from player to player to exploit – only the top 1.6 percent of college players make it to the NFL.

“In the NFL, literally each defender can be two guys in one, almost,” Dilfer said. “They have the mentality to see the patterns ahead of time and physically are fast and strong enough to compensate for any bad position they might be in in alignment.

“The biggest thing you hear from young NFL quarterbacks, is, wait a second, he wasn’t supposed to be there. That one statement tells the big picture of the difference between college quarterbacks and pro quarterbacks. In college, they are where they’re supposed to be. You line them up, you spread them out, they’re there. In the NFL, you line them up, you spread them out and they’re totally in different spots.”

Evaluating quarterbacks

Cutcliffe has a solution to the so-called quarterback crisis.

“I don’t think the Xs and Os have anything to do with it,” he said. “It sounds like a pretty convenient way to say we’re struggling evaluating.

“I’ve always thought most of the time, not all, their evaluation process of quarterbacks is very, very average, compared to how I would go about it myself,” he said of the NFL evaluation process. “So, I’m not surprised they miss as much as they do. Isn’t that what they’re really talking about?”

Cutcliffe declined to reveal all of his tricks of the trade for evaluating quarterbacks, but he did say, “There is a thoroughness, knowing who you are dealing with – there are so many things that you can probe besides just watching tape.”

Cutcliffe was front-and-center for one of the more misguided quarterback debates, as it turned out: In 1998, there was a spirited debate over whether Cutcliffe’s quarterback at Tennessee, Peyton Manning, or Washington State’s Ryan Leaf should be taken No. 1 in the NFL draft. Manning is one of the NFL’s all-time greatest quarterbacks. Leaf started just 21 career games and has almost spent as much time in prison as he did in the NFL.

Dilfer agreed with Cutcliffe’s assessment of the NFL’s evaluating process.

“It is the worst-evaluated and worst-developed position in the NFL,” he said. “I have conversations with GMs and coaches about quarterbacks that literally I get off the phone and I go to my wife and I vent. And I say I cannot believe that this is a decision maker in the NFL, and he has no idea, none, zero, what it means to be the quarterback, what you’re looking for in a quarterback and how to develop a quarterback.

If I was an NFL general manager, I would pay David Cutcliffe whatever amount of money would get him away from Duke, and I would have him be my chief quarterback evaluator/consultant in my organization. That’s what I would do. And I trust myself a lot. There are a handful of people that truly understand all the layers of evaluating and developing quarterbacks.”

Cutcliffe wouldn’t attempt to wow any NFL types with fancy terminology in attempts to sound smart. To him, the answer to the question of what makes a great quarterback is quite simple.

“Quarterbacks can play in any style of offense,” he said. “If they’re great quarterbacks – when people say pro-style, what you’re really saying is: Can a guy throw the football?”

Laura Keeley: 919-829-4556, @laurakeeley

Major differences between college and NFL offenses

1) Hashmarks

▪ 18 feet, 6 inches apart in the NFL

▪ 40 feet apart in college

Significance: The “field” (or wide) side of the field isn’t as wide in the pros, making it harder to create 1-on-1 matchups for offensive skill players to exploit

2) Pass blocking

▪ NFL offensive linemen can move forward one yard before a pass is thrown

▪ College linemen can move forward three yards – and the rule is rarely enforced

Significance: Offenses can better trick defenses into thinking it’s a run play – as the linemen move off the line of scrimmage in a run-block look – before unleashing a pass against an ill-positioned defense

3) Dynamic decision making

▪ NFL quarterbacks receive longer play calls, read defenses, make pre-snap protection adjustments and are more deliberate with throws after the snap

▪ College plays are signaled in via signs or hand motions, the ball is snapped quickly and throws are made quickly, too

Significance: College quarterbacks must adjust to making more dynamic decisions once they reach the pros – easier said than done

[TexasAg1969]

5 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

And there it is... page 3 of the cal playbook.

"When losing an argument, make up a position you can win against and assign to those with whom you disagree."

So draft Allen, play him say through at least 0-16 and by then he shall surpass Kizer? But doesn't that get him ready for a trade for a late round pick?