From nobody to the top of the first round of the draft - Josh Allen

[Tour2ma]

18 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

or Mayfield. I would be a bigger Darnold fan, but...all those fumbles , ints,,, I just don't get it.

Well in the spirit of cooperation I can share the mantra I have begun to repeat... Despite all his obvious flaws, Darnold managed to be as successful as nay QB over 6'2...

Ball security is an added concern, but that's largely a two-hands on the ball thing. Some signs at his pro day he's been focusing on that and ala Kizer when he starts his motion from a position with two hands on the ball, then his throwing path tightens up. Still not as ingrained as it became with Kizer, however.

[Bigalow80]

This is from Mary K. so take it with a grain of salt, but...

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/03/jordan_palmer_on_browns_candid.html

[Tour2ma]

There are a lot of ways to take, "I've never seen anyone like him."

[Nero]

6 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Well in the spirit of cooperation I can share the mantra I have begun to repeat... Despite all his obvious flaws, Darnold managed to be as successful as nay QB over 6'2...

Ball security is an added concern, but that's largely a two-hands on the ball thing. Some signs at his pro day he's been focusing on that and ala Kizer when he starts his motion from a position with two hands on the ball, then his throwing path tightens up. Still not as ingrained as it became with Kizer, however.

If I recall correctly, it was one of the problems with Wilson coming from college. There was a Gruden camp where he told (IDK if it was Kizer or who) that he had to become a two-hand monster. 

Among the flaws a college QB can bring to the NFL, it is the last one that concerns me.

[calfoxwc]

2 hours ago, Bigalow80 said:

This is from Mary K. so take it with a grain of salt, but...

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/03/jordan_palmer_on_browns_candid.html

as long as the quotes are from Palmer, I can't wait til I get a chance to watch Allen's pro day.

 

[SD_Tom]

Palmer hyping up his own students... I'm shocked! 

 

 

[tiamat63]

12 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

as long as the quotes are from Palmer, I can't wait til I get a chance to watch Allen's pro day.

 

Make sure to have paper towels ready. 

[Tour2ma]

Speaking of paper towels...

Jenna Jameson Weighs in on Cleveland Browns' Draft Strategy, Prefers QB With Biggest Hands

Last week, Bryan Curtis wrote an excellent piece for The Ringer on the proliferation of NFL Draft gurus. One name he neglected to mention, though, is adult film actress Jenna Jameson, who, like Kevin Costner in Draft Day, recently got into character as pretend general manager of the Cleveland Browns.

When asked how she’d navigate the first and fourth picks in the upcoming draft, Jameson wasted no time identifying her preferred quarterback of the future. And he has a big arm...

Josh Allen

— Jenna Jameson (@jennajameson) March 22, 2018

Jameson only named one player, so it’s unclear what she’d like to see Cleveland do with the No. 4 selection. Using two picks for one guy seems like very poor work, even by Browns standards.

The most amusing thing about this little non-story is the sheer volume of dudes earnestly debating both draft strategy and Allen’s quarterbacking ability at the next level in Jameson’s replies. It’d be above-average absurdist art if done intentionally.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Well, she's a pornstar.

[Tour2ma]

17 hours ago, Nero said:

If I recall correctly, it was one of the problems with Wilson coming from college. There was a Gruden camp where he told (IDK if it was Kizer or who) that he had to become a two-hand monster. 

Among the flaws a college QB can bring to the NFL, it is the last one that concerns me.

Well Wilson fumbled 14 times last season. Kizer? Nine times... Wilson takes about 40 sacks a year. Kizer? 38. So Wilson doesn't seem to be all that fixed.

It's one thing to practice dropping and preparing to pass with two hands on the ball... same for rolling out.That can be ingrained, can made routine. It's quite another in game to keep two hands on when pressure shows, rushers are grabbing at you and it's time to get on the move. Kizer's two hand training went right out the window as soon as he began to run.

[darren15]

All coaches and Haslam at his pro day today

[Nero]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Well Wilson fumbled 14 times last season. Kizer? Nine times... Wilson takes about 40 sacks a year. Kizer? 38. So Wilson doesn't seem to be all that fixed.

It's one thing to practice dropping and preparing to pass with two hands on the ball... same for rolling out.That can be ingrained, can made routine. It's quite another in game to keep two hands on when pressure shows, rushers are grabbing at you and it's time to get on the move. Kizer's two hand training went right out the window as soon as he began to run.

Well, for me it's similar to learning 'to throw it away'. Also, Russel has no Oline, so if he decided to have both hands on the ball and don't take any risks, his production would be a lot worse. He needs to keep the play alive and he takes many risks, but I understand what you say. In fact, I've heard people wondering what if Rusell had again a good Oline, if he would be able to work again as a pocket passer. 

I'd say that in Kizer's case, he is a big strong quaterback so reaching him is harder, and he had a good Oline (not stellar, but Browns Oline is good), but he had problems because he had a hard time reading the field and our receivers were awful, so he semt quite lost most of the time. And at that point, it's about instinct (and his isn't very good).

[TexasAg1969]

After watching the pro day I like his short and intermediate throws, but most of those deep ones verified what I saw in games, overthrows deep receivers consistently. I do feel he has improved his intermediate "out" throws to the sidelines. Before he was just not very good at hitting those. He's been working on them for sure.

I'm sure he has the arm for deep throws, even if you discount the affect of thin air  @ 7000 ft. in Laramie.

[calfoxwc]

5 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Make sure to have paper towels ready. 

clean up your own drool, fool.

[tiamat63]

12 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

clean up your own drool, fool.

 

Hey that rhymed.

By the way, watching these throws - kid is still very inaccurate.   

[Mark O]

He's a pussy for throwing indoors.    If he wanted to impress he should've been outside throwing since last I checked, every team in the top of the draft is a cold weather team that plays outdoors.

Fuck him.

[gumby73]

I see where his Wr's are just that bad.They say the pro game is faster.Hope his WR's are. It may help him? I can see where Palmer has done some work on his loft to get some air under the ball hoping receivers catch up but it only proved successful twice maybe a 3rd with a receiver with any kind of hands. What you don't want to see is a deep ball hung up short..That happened once.Allen has done some tinkering work with Palmer.Maybe in Allens head but so will any NFL QB coach. Like Kizer, this Kid really does not need to see the field this up coming season. He needs to be drafted into a good QB situation..But that rarely ever happens in this QB starving league..If Elway wants Allen? He can sit at 6 & pick him..I'd pass & take BPA at 6 & that's not Allen playing in 2018  

[Dutch Oven]

27 minutes ago, Mark O said:

Shmuck him.

The sad thing is, I think Allen is going to be the pick at #1 if it's not Darnold. 

I don't see the Browns trading away the first pick of the 3rd round for Taylor if they were planning on drafting Rosen or Mayfield - two guys who could start either from the season opener or relatively early on. I think the Browns wanted the "Upside Boys" - whichever one they settle on - to be guaranteed not to get the Kizer treatment of being rushed. 

[calfoxwc]

Mayock made mention of some last minute changes but they worked around them. Don't know what the details are.

It comes down to this ...

If you have a west coast offense, and he had to start, I'd go with mayfield.

If you have a good qb ahead of him. and need consistency and maybe during the year he would start...I'd go with Darnold

If you have a wide open offense, a long of long intermediate throws and some bombs thrown in, and the young qb could sit

for a year - I think you have to draft Allen.

Allen's pro day was just shy of excellent. Darnold's WAS excellent. Allen has that special arm - but he needs practice on controlling that power.

Darnold doesn't, simply because he doesn't have that power. Allen's arm is far more a virture than a vice at this point.

So, Darnold was more consistent, and Allen has bigtime upside star power. Tough choice.

Since neither has to start, I'm assuming, I'd go with Allen, but the Browns may very well go with Darnold. Both are going to be winners in the NFL.

***************************************************************

http://www.theprogressnews.com/sports/national/with-wyoming-under-the-spotlight-quarterback-josh-allen-puts-on/article_b19a90d5-887d-5404-9c3a-d22eb2464989.html

Allen showed off his trademark cannon of an arm with a handful of deep passes at the end of the session. His short passes and underneath routes, though, are what was most on display. He appeared to succeed on those, with nary an inaccurate throw. Allen's quarterback trainer Jordan Palmer, who ran the session, said afterward that he felt Allen was "perfect" in that regard.

"I think it all starts from the feet," Allen said, "and as accurate as I want to be, it starts there. So, Jordan Palmer’s done a really good job with me and seeing everything that’s going on within my mechanics. We came out and showed that it’s improving."

Allen threw to a few receivers who are friends with Palmer as well as Van Maanen and current Wyoming receiver Ayden Eberhardt.

The event also a provided Wyoming a way to show off its newly opened High Altitude Performance Center, a $44 million facility adjacent to War Memorial Stadium. The measurements, jumps and bench presses were held in the center's spacious weight room.

"This was awesome, and Craig Bohl does a great job here," NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock said. "I took a walk through the new facility, and I was blown away. What you offer here was as good as anything I see at LSU or any of those kinds of things. And you have to put it in perspective. I’m at Alabama, LSU, Penn State. I go to all the major Pro Days. Clemson. The facilities here are great.

"I thought the kid put on a show. I thought the people showed up. And this is the common denominator with (Bohl's former school) North Dakota State: the people. The coaches, the fans, you guys love your football, and you have an appreciation for it, and it’s really cool."

The on-field portions were held in Wyoming's Indoor Practice Facility. But in light of fellow draft prospect Sam Darnold's successful Pro Day in the rain at Southern California, Allen said he would have taken advantage of any inclement weather Friday.

"I was hoping it was snowing, actually," he said. "If it had started snowing, we probably would have stepped outside for 20, 30 throws."

But there was nothing but sunshine Friday afternoon for Wyoming football.

 

[hoorta]

8 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

After watching the pro day I like his short and intermediate throws, but most of those deep ones verified what I saw in games, overthrows deep receivers consistently. I do feel he has improved his intermediate "out" throws to the sidelines. Before he was just not very good at hitting those. He's been working on them for sure.

I'm sure he has the arm for deep throws, even if you discount the affect of thin air  @ 7000 ft. in Laramie.

Ditto...  

7 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Hey that rhymed.

By the way, watching these throws - kid is still very inaccurate.   

WAY less accurate than Darnold.   

3 hours ago, Mark O said:

He's a pussy for throwing indoors.    If he wanted to impress he should've been outside throwing since last I checked, every team in the top of the draft is a cold weather team that plays outdoors.

He could have thrown outside, I agree. Checked the Laramie weather- it was 50 degrees today. 

[hoorta]

58 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Mayock made mention of some last minute changes but they worked around them. Don't know what the details are.

It comes down to this ...

If you have a west coast offense, and he had to start, I'd go with mayfield.

If you have a good qb ahead of him. and need consistency and maybe during the year he would start...I'd go with Darnold

If you have a wide open offense, a long of long intermediate throws and some bombs thrown in, and the young qb could sit

for a year - I think you have to draft Allen.

Allen's pro day was just shy of excellent. Darnold's WAS excellent. Allen has that special arm - but he needs practice on controlling that power.

Darnold doesn't, simply because he doesn't have that power. Allen's arm is far more a virture than a vice at this point.

So, Darnold was more consistent, and Allen has bigtime upside star power. Tough choice.

Since neither has to start, I'm assuming, I'd go with Allen, but the Browns may very well go with Darnold. Both are going to be winners in the NFL.

***************************************************************

http://www.theprogressnews.com/sports/national/with-wyoming-under-the-spotlight-quarterback-josh-allen-puts-on/article_b19a90d5-887d-5404-9c3a-d22eb2464989.html 

He's (Allen) improved Cal- but not enough for my tastes...  

[Sober Poet]

Brace yourself Cal... I totally agree with you.

Regarding Wentz. I thought, "Grab him, act like you never even had the pick. Get that guy into your system now." Work under center. Loved the way his eyes worked downfield on his dropback. Very aggressive.

Starting to feel the same way about Allen here, especially since we have the 4.

It appears he defines late bloomer. Not much to see in high school, coming on strong now late in college. He also seems to respond to coaching.

If our plan is to sit our guy for TT, get this kid into our system now. Let him learn our way.

I know, weak analysis, unsupported by acumen. May well be my calling card.

I have lunch with an Eagles fan every day who heard me say that about Wentz and he wonders what the hell our front office is thinking.

Defillipo went to the Eagles after here, he had scouted Wentz for us. Did he sabotage the Wentz file when we fired him and take the good file to Philly?

Freaking turnover...

[Tour2ma]

Watched the NFLN coverage of Allen's work out. Here's my take... first the good.

• It was a good Pro day.
• Feet were actually quite good in drops. While the snap was not in every 5 and 7, it was in a lot of them.
• Not a sign of the hopping Darnold showed either in his sets or his hitches.
• Mechanically he looked good throwing from his spot so long as he could throw it flat and hard.
• "His spot" included the programmed rollouts in both directions. Some of his best throws were on the run.

And now the rest...

• There were throws within the above criteria that were simply off the mark... high... wrong side... low... and in slo-mo looks there was no obvious reason for the miss.
• He threw a lot of "impressive" fast balls on a rope, e.g., 15 and 20-yd outs, that under coverage will feast upon albeit at the cost of some jammed fingers.
• Ask for touch and it's not there... and matters not if it's a swingpass to a RB or a 60-yd bomb.
• Push him off his spot as Palmer was simulating and he loses his feet. Those throws tended to be arm-throws.
• Those final few throws were an absolute joke... no QB needs to be able to throw punts.

Bottom Line: Allen looks to have to "think" about any throw that is not a fastball in rhythm. Mayock says his sources said the kid's a thinker. Other reports I've read... not so much.

I really lost a lot of respect for Mayock today. I would not have been nearly as diplomatic as Bucky Brooks was in the phrasing of his WTF-ish questions for Mike. But at least Mike did not list us among the teams that were a good landing spot for Allen.

[Dutch Oven]

5 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

I really lost a lot of respect for Mayock today. I would not have been nearly as diplomatic as Bucky Brooks was in the phrasing of his WTF-ish questions for Mike. But at least Mike did not list us among the teams that were a good landing spot for Allen.

While I think Allen is in play for the Browns at #1, I can't stress how much of a mistake I think this is. 

I can't think of a more Brownsish move. 

[TexasAg1969]

9 hours ago, hoorta said:

  He could have thrown outside, I agree. Checked the Laramie weather- it was 50 degrees today. 

It isn't the temperature you needed to check, but the wind speed. Most people don't know that Cheyenne was rated the 2nd most windy city in the US (Missoula, Mont was #1) with an average wind speed 24 hours a day for a year of over 13 mph. Laramie is not to far W from there up in a gap in the Rockies so if there is any kind of front coming through west to east it can easily hit 30-50 mph any given day. BTW I left Cheyenne after living there 5 years. Too damn windy, cold and snowy for me.

[Flugel]

12 hours ago, gumby73 said:

I see where his Wr's are just that bad.They say the pro game is faster.Hope his WR's are. It may help him? I can see where Palmer has done some work on his loft to get some air under the ball hoping receivers catch up but it only proved successful twice maybe a 3rd with a receiver with any kind of hands. What you don't want to see is a deep ball hung up short..That happened once.Allen has done some tinkering work with Palmer.Maybe in Allens head but so will any NFL QB coach. Like Kizer, this Kid really does not need to see the field this up coming season. He needs to be drafted into a good QB situation..But that rarely ever happens in this QB starving league..If Elway wants Allen? He can sit at 6 & pick him..I'd pass & take BPA at 6 & that's not Allen playing in 2018  

That's true Gumby. Some interesting points.  I'm just not sure guys that aren't accurate in college become accurate in NFL any more than receivers with the dropsies suddenly cure them at the next level.  I've been wrong before though.

To the part in bold above, I'm sure the pass rushers and corners are faster than the ones that already rendered him pedestrian in the 2nd tier conference he played in.  I've already seen some bionic arms here that struggled with football IQ, accuracy and vision to perpetuate their inconsistencies on outta here.  You gotta have some of those to throw guys open.   DA used to struggle most with short game, which gets increasingly important when time to throw is a challnge.  1 workout without defenders challenging mind, time to throw, accuracy and mechanics won't do anything but tell me Allen can throw a football as far as Jamarcus Russell.

As far as Elway goes, he's fallen for Brock O twice and Paxton Lynch once to remind me it hasn't been nearly as easy as recruiting a HOF QB in progress (Manning). 

[7moses7]

18 minutes ago, Flugel said:

That's true Gumby. Some interesting points.  I'm just not sure guys that aren't accurate in college become accurate in NFL any more than receivers with the dropsies suddenly cure them at the next level.  I've been wrong before though.

To the part in bold above, I'm sure the pass rushers and corners are faster than the ones that already rendered him pedestrian in the 2nd tier conference he played in.  I've already seen some bionic arms here that struggled with football IQ, accuracy and vision to perpetuate their inconsistencies on outta here.  You gotta have some of those to throw guys open.   DA used to struggle most with short game, which gets increasingly important when time to throw is a challnge.  1 workout without defenders challenging mind, time to throw, accuracy and mechanics won't do anything but tell me Allen can throw a football as far as Jamarcus Russell.

As far as Elway goes, he's fallen for Brock O twice and Paxton Lynch once to remind me it hasn't been nearly as easy as recruiting a HOF QB in progress (Manning). 

 

Other than accuracy issues with Josh Allen which can be fixed he could come in and sit out the year to correct it. It’s been done before,Favre went from 52.4% in college to 62% in the NFL, Stafford 57.1 % to 62% ,Tyrod Taylor 57.2% to 62.4% just seems he could be the one to go #1

 

[The Gipper]

[hoorta]

5 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

It isn't the temperature you needed to check, but the wind speed. Most people don't know that Cheyenne was rated the 2nd most windy city in the US (Missoula, Mont was #1) with an average wind speed 24 hours a day for a year of over 13 mph. Laramie is not to far W from there up in a gap in the Rockies so if there is any kind of front coming through west to east it can easily hit 30-50 mph any given day. BTW I left Cheyenne after living there 5 years. Too damn windy, cold and snowy for me.

Well do I know that Ag. Did a couple climbing trips in the Snowy Range just west of Laramie. Didn't check the wind speed, but at Darnold's pro day they commented wind is a bigger factor than rain. Regarding wind, that's what completely sold me on Ben Roethlisber. Miami of Ohio is 50 miles down the road from Dayton, and the wife is a Miami alum- so I got to see plenty of Ben's college games. One, they were playing in a virtual hurricane constant 30+ mph wind, with plenty of gusts 50+. Ben completed a crazy percentage of passes playing in that gale, knew right then the guy was special.

[jrb12711]

4 hours ago, 7moses7 said:

 

Other than accuracy issues with Josh Allen which can be fixed he could come in and sit out the year to correct it. It’s been done before,Favre went from 52.4% in college to 62% in the NFL, Stafford 57.1 % to 62% ,Tyrod Taylor 57.2% to 62.4% just seems he could be the one to go #1

 

Favre aside that's using stats to your advantage. Stafford his last season in college was over 61% and Taylor was a hair under 60%. They got better, Allen stayed flat.