Denzel Ward

[tiamat63]

4 hours ago, Orion said:

 

• Sodium pentathol, and defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, came up in the wake of the Denzel Ward pick. Truth serum. My question to Dorsey on Friday morning: “If we gave Gregg Williams sodium pentathol right now, who would he have said he wanted with the fourth pick—Denzel Ward or Bradley Chubb?” Dorsey pulled out his cell phone and rang Williams. I asked him the question. Williams: “Ward. The reason is our need for a press cover cornerback. Denzel probably plays that position as well as anyone I’ve seen in college football in some time. We probably play the most press of any team in the league. There’s another reason. I’ve got a video of 28 snaps of Myles Garrett pass-rushes last year where he gets within two steps or less of the quarterback when the ball comes out. Basically, we aren’t covering long enough to let him get to the quarterback. Myles and others—especially [defensive end] Emmanuel Ogbah—will get more chances because of Denzel.” Ogbah, Williams said, was a major reason why the Browns went Ward over Chubb. “Ogbah’s a rising star in this league,” Williams said. “He’s got a chance to be Chubb.” High praise.

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Dorsey knew for quite a while that he wanted Mayfield...and Williams knew he wanted Ward.  (I guess you've gotta cover the receivers at least a LITTLE BIT in order to get a sack)

Go Browns!

Would love to have the chance to pick coach Williams' brain one day.  I have a great deal of respect for the man and the defenses he crafts.

Having said that, as much as I love my Buckeyes - Denzel's own team mate just a year prior (Marshon) was a far better press corner.    And there are larger receivers Ward has struggled with at times the last couple years, hence my first knock on him being that he needs to improve his strength.  So saying Ward is the best press CB he has seen in a while is...    Not sure how to phrase that.   Just hoping Coach has watched as many DB's as he's leading on though.  

[tiamat63]

Should Pep Pep be closer to the LOS, he's going to have to clean up those angles.   And the missed tackle % needs to stay low if he wants to be elite.  

[TexasAg1969]

11 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Would love to have the chance to pick coach Williams' brain one day.  I have a great deal of respect for the man and the defenses he crafts.

Having said that, as much as I love my Buckeyes - Denzel's own team mate just a year prior (Marshon) was a far better press corner.    And there are larger receivers Ward has struggled with at times the last couple years, hence my first knock on him being that he needs to improve his strength.  So saying Ward is the best press CB he has seen in a while is...    Not sure how to phrase that.   Just hoping Coach has watched as many DB's as he's leading on though.  

Interesting. One of the commentators on NFL Network was discussing all of the really tall receivers that Ward will come up against this year and what a problem that is going to present for a relatively short corner coming into his rookie season with great expectations by the Browns. He better take up basketball in the summer.

[tiamat63]

3 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Interesting. One of the commentators on NFL Network was discussing all of the really tall receivers that Ward will come up against this year and what a problem that is going to present for a relatively short corner coming into his rookie season with great expectations by the Browns. He better take up basketball in the summer.

Basketball would be for footwork and vertical, of which Ward has plenty of both.    

His upper body strength though...   that is what concerns me.  

[gumby73]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

- Denzel's own team mate just a year prior (Marshon) was a far better press corner.    And there are larger receivers Ward has struggled with at times the last couple years, hence my first knock on him being that he needs to improve his strength.  So saying Ward is the best press CB he has seen in a while is...    Not sure how to phrase that.   Just hoping Coach has watched as many DB's as he's leading on though.  

agreed.Marshon went #11 to saints while we passed on Watson at #12.whew'.starting to see signs that this front office might even listen to his position coaches also. Am not even sure SB would listen to Huejax.. 

59 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Interesting. One of the commentators on NFL Network was discussing all of the really tall receivers that Ward will come up against this year and what a problem that is going to present for a relatively short corner coming into his rookie season with great expectations by the Browns. He better take up basketball in the summer.

CB Curry is 6'1 & can run with ageing AJ Green..kneecap Howard Wilson is 6ft. Ward could flip coverage? if his vert can't get him up there..Stoolers WR's size will continue to be a issue, maybe 

[The Gipper]

On 4/26/2018 at 8:50 PM, jrb12711 said:

Ward is going to be a quality starter, but not taking Chubb there is just a head scratcher. 

Not really...not if you don't have a clue or did not think it through.   At the time I too said basically:  WTF....but then I realized what this team really needed most.  Where our biggest weakness was....so then I thought that taking Ward totally made absolute sense.

[Orion]

Gip - is your avatar Kent State?

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I don't get the whole Denzel Ward is short, thing.  He's 5'11".   Is that short for a CB?   Since when were CB's supposed to be shooting forwards?  (basketball term)

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I'm fine with moving my thread anywhere ya like.....but the thread wasn't really only about Ward.  It was about pick #4 and why we didn't trade out of it....how the Baker pick kept us at 4....and why we didn't take Chubb.   

[The Gipper]

11 minutes ago, Orion said:

Gip - is your avatar Kent State?

Yep...coming up on 48 years.

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I don't get the whole Denzel Ward is short, thing.  He's 5'11".   Is that short for a CB?   Since when were CB's supposed to be shooting forwards?  (basketball term)

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I'm fine with moving my thread anywhere ya like.....but the thread wasn't really only about Ward.  It was about pick #4 and why we didn't trade out of it....how the Baker pick kept us at 4....and why we didn't take Chubb.   

 

[Orion]

I think Joe Walsh said that he was attending Kent State at the time and when that happened is when he decided to make music.

[TexasAg1969]

48 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Not really...not if you don't have a clue or did not think it through.   At the time I too said basically:  WTF....but then I realized what this team really needed most.  Where our biggest weakness was....so then I thought that taking Ward totally made absolute sense.

It made sense only if Ogbah is fully recovered which appears to be the case in light of what Dorsey said about Ogbah. Makes me happy and for sure makes Garrett happy.

[The Gipper]

7 minutes ago, Orion said:

I think Joe Walsh said that he was attending Kent State at the time and when that happened is when he decided to make music.

He was performing in and around Kent.  Whether he was in school...or if the rest of what you say is true...I do not know.

[calfoxwc]

4 minutes ago, Orion said:

I think Joe Walsh said that he was attending Kent State at the time and when that happened is when he decided to make music.

I was there on May 4th, and a few years afterwards, til I went into the service. Lambert was amazing to watch back then. My favorite player was Gary Pinkel.

[Tour2ma]

2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

So saying Ward is the best press CB he has seen in a while is...    Not sure how to phrase that.   Just hoping Coach has watched as many DB's as he's leading on though.  

I doubt he's "seen" a lot more than what the scouts have brought to his teams over the past several years... especially since he's risen to DC.

55 minutes ago, Orion said:

I don't get the whole Denzel Ward is short, thing.  He's 5'11".   Is that short for a CB?   Since when were CB's supposed to be shooting forwards?  (basketball term)

In the new NFL? Kinda... range is like 5'9 to 6'3. All other things equal you'd love "longer"... but in general other things don't stay equal with increasing hight.

Height is but one attribute in playing length tho... arm length and vertical leap are factor as well.

 

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Not really...not if you don't have a clue or did not think it through.   At the time I too said basically:  WTF....but then I realized what this team really needed most.  Where our biggest weakness was....so then I thought that taking Ward totally made absolute sense.

lol... and so begins the turn to "I knew it all along"...

I really want to see the posts where Gip "thought this thru".

[tiamat63]

Revis is 5'11.  He just has good arm length, footwork and is strong as hell.  

[Dutch Oven]

4 hours ago, Orion said:

I think Joe Walsh said that he was attending Kent State at the time and when that happened is when he decided to make music.

One day, a group of college-age kids were sitting on the floor in a corner of the lobby of the Kent Plaza Theater. My dad was the assistant manager at the time, and his boss told him to "go over to that long-haired guy and tell him and his friends that they can't loiter in the lobby". My dad informed his boss who the long-haired guy was, to no avail, so he had to go over and sheepishly tell Joe Walsh that he couldn't hang out there anymore. 

Growing up one town over, I would find out that one of my HS teachers should have been in the National Guard unit that was at Kent State that day, but he was having knee surgery. A middle school teacher of mine was best friend's with one of the boys who was killed.

Crazy times. 

[Orion]

18 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Crazy times. 

Stupid times.   And a stupid president.  

[calfoxwc]

I remember the Kent St contingent going to that rally in Washington the year after - so many were arrested -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_May_Day_protests

but the leaders of the Kent anti-war protesters weren't - they didn't go to the rally - they kept the bus/food money and had a big wild party instead.  I learned of that after sitting down across from a young lady who was crying over the deceit and hypocrisy. Her brother was over there....But I've told that story before.

Back to football.

[TexasAg1969]

Well out of it came on of my favorite protest songs. What a terrible tragedy for Ohio and for our nation.

 

[calfoxwc]

Have pictures of the burned down ROTC building - from Saturday night before....pics of the National Guard...

never liked that one at all. btw, the protesters brought in bags of rocks to throw at the National Guard.

They frantically cleaned them up later, by flashlights even, after dark. Just a "secret" FYI. They were not potatoes.

"ahem" back to football.

[Westside Steve]

On 4/26/2018 at 9:18 PM, BaconHound said:

I always thought the Browns were a DB away.

Tour may want to update his signature to read "DB is one of the hardest positions for a rookie to learn, he'll get better"

Same dung we heard about Gilbert

Hardly a valid criticism. Because One highly-touted DB is lazy and doesn't work out they all must be. Are you saying Gilbert failed because the position is too hard to learn?

WSS

[The Gipper]

15 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

lol... and so begins the turn to "I knew it all along"...

I really want to see the posts where Gip "thought this thru".

Serious?  Obuse a bit?   You won't see posts where I express my thought processes....only my conclusions.  Besides...did you not read what I said?

I said that I had questioned the choice of Ward over Chubb initially...but then after thinking it through....I concluded that if their talents were equal, that it was in the Browns interests to choose the CB...because it is a position of far greater need for us.

Did you miss that whole expression....or were you too self involved in your desire to be critical that it passed you over?

[The Gipper]

12 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

One day, a group of college-age kids were sitting on the floor in a corner of the lobby of the Kent Plaza Theater. My dad was the assistant manager at the time, and his boss told him to "go over to that long-haired guy and tell him and his friends that they can't loiter in the lobby". My dad informed his boss who the long-haired guy was, to no avail, so he had to go over and sheepishly tell Joe Walsh that he couldn't hang out there anymore. 

Growing up one town over, I would find out that one of my HS teachers should have been in the National Guard unit that was at Kent State that day, but he was having knee surgery. A middle school teacher of mine was best friend's with one of the boys who was killed.

Crazy times. 

One guy that I worked with once  was there that day...a student.  Another guy I worked with was there....as part of the National Guard.  (but not a part of the squad that did the firing).   And my next door neighbor now was also there on the day.  He was like right around the corner of Taylor Hall when it happened.  One of the guys that was shot (not killed)  lives about a block and a half from where I sit now. 

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Serious?  Obuse a bit?   You won't see posts where I express my thought processes....only my conclusions.  Besides...did you not read what I said?

I said that I had questioned the choice of Ward over Chubb initially...but then after thinking it through....I concluded that if their talents were equal, that it was in the Browns interests to choose the CB...because it is a position of far greater need for us.

Did you miss that whole expression....or were you too self involved in your desire to be critical that it passed you over?

You call a poster "clueless" and I am the critical one. lol

You barely mentioned Ward thru the entire draft build up (I know... I checked) and then want to claim "insight"... without ever having taken a stand or showing your work.

You are the biggest fraud on this forum.

And going back on ignore... which is a big time saver for me.

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

You call a poster "clueless" and I am the critical one. lol

Defending Steeler fans now?  I called him clueless because he was. And I am calling you on your impatience and eager desire to criticize...without thought.

You barely mentioned Ward thru the entire draft build up (I know... I checked) and then want to claim "insight"... without ever having taken a stand or showing your work.

Well....NO SHITe Sherlock I never mentioned Ward in the draft buildup.....almost NO ONE had any thought for him, now did they?  And I did NOT claim to have  any insight.  Where the fuyuck do you see that I said that?  I said that AFTER the Browns took Ward that I realized what sense it made. 

And what is this STAND that I am supposed to have taken?  The ONLY "stand" I recall making was about Mason Rudolph...and how I thought that he could turn up to be the best QB on the board.  I made a stand there.....I proposed a bet with you.....that he would be taken in Round one.  YOU are the one that failed and refused to take a stand by taking me up on that bet.  So. who is the one not taking a stand?  You Chickened out. Chicken

And what is this "Work" that I am supposed to have shown....that one comes from way out in left field.    I didn't realize we were doing Math.

You are the biggest fraud on this forum.

Really? I admit when I am wrong.  I got it wrong about Rudolph. I never claimed to take any stance about Ward.  I said afterward that it then made sense after it was done and I gave it some thought.    Something you never seem to do with your posts lately (because of your over eagerness to be critical I suspect).   

 

And going back on ignore... which is a big time saver for me.

And there you go.....back on your menstrual cycle.  Another diklikkinchikin move.   You may as well do nothing in your defense...since you have no defense. Maybe you can't see what I say...but everyone else can see you bleed.

 

[TexasAg1969]

Now this is interesting. According to Highsmith are doing away with the centerfield safety position which we had because our corners sucked. 

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2018/05/01/alonzo-highsmith-promises-big-change-in-how-browns-play-safeties/

 

[Tour2ma]

1 minute ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Now this is interesting. According to Highsmith are doing away with the centerfield safety position which we had because our corners sucked. 

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2018/05/01/alonzo-highsmith-promises-big-change-in-how-browns-play-safeties/

So baring Wilson breaking out, we can shade our FS to the side of our remaining CB that sucks?

[TexasAg1969]

1 minute ago, Tour2ma said:

So baring Wilson breaking out, we can shade our FS to the side of our remaining CB that sucks?

I would have taken CBs Oliver or Jackson instead of Corbett. But that's just me. I wanted 2 CBs out of a strong CB class.

[calfoxwc]

17 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Now this is interesting. According to Highsmith are doing away with the centerfield safety position which we had because our corners sucked. 

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2018/05/01/alonzo-highsmith-promises-big-change-in-how-browns-play-safeties/

 

   I've said that in the past - the corners were toast downfield - the Browns had to have Peppers back there to try to limit

the quick scores on long passes. This is GREAT to hear.

[BaconHound]

On May 1, 2018 at 9:40 AM, Westside Steve said:

Hardly a valid criticism. Because One highly-touted DB is lazy and doesn't work out they all must be. Are you saying Gilbert failed because the position is too hard to learn?

WSS

Absolutely not.  I've been saying that DB is one of the hardest positions to play based on league rules and physical superiority of many WRs.  Many in here supported Gilbert saying that DB was a hard position to learn in year one and then in year 2 crickets.  I don't value DBs as high as other defensive players due to the previously mentioned reasons and that they typically have a very short shelf life at an elite level.