***Browns VS Seahawks Gameday Thread***

[Unsympathetic]

Baker this season is taking a lot longer to throw the ball.. this makes sense because the routes are longer-developing, and with a worse OL, he has to scramble around to avoid the rush. Chubb is a genius at getting yards behind this average-to-dumpster-fire of an OL, and if we don't shore up the OL this offseason we're going to send our best QB in many years into retirement due to injury just like Luck.

Moral of the story: OL is the engine. Also, mix up the calls.. can't throw a 30-yard hook every play.

If the team treats next week as their playoff, next week will be close.  Will that actually happen?

[D Bone]

If I were coaching this team, Chubb would have a short career..... but it would be a freakin' spectacular one. 

[Orion]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

Or if you are a Browns offensive player in 2019 trying to catch passes from Baker, rarely ever. 

His accuracy this season has not been great.  He's been high a lot.  And lately also a little behind the receiver.  But his numbers today are a kind of microcosm of the season.  22 or 37.  He's credited with 3 INTs...when really, 2 receivers run into one another, and Hilliard has one go right through his hands...and last week Callaway has a TD bounce off of him to a defender.

Baker's gotta be more accurate....but the receivers have to help a guy out by catching the ones that they can get their hands on without too much effort.

 

[SdBacker80]

22 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

Baker this season is taking a lot longer to throw the ball.. this makes sense because the routes are longer-developing, and with a worse OL, he has to scramble around to avoid the rush. Chubb is a genius at getting yards behind this average-to-dumpster-fire of an OL, and if we don't shore up the OL this offseason we're going to send our best QB in many years into retirement due to injury just like Luck.

Moral of the story: OL is the engine. Also, mix up the calls.. can't throw a 30-yard hook every play.

If the team treats next week as their playoff, next week will be close.  Will that actually happen?

The Oline was good this game.  Seahawks didn’t sniff Baker and Chubb had some nice lanes.  

[TexasAg1969]

8 hours ago, D Bone said:

If I were coaching this team, Chubb would have a short career..... but it would be a freakin' spectacular one. 

Fortunately help is soon on the way and we can watch "spectacular" the last 8 games.

[tiamat63]

10 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

I get it I just didn’t realize Hilliard was Kamara.

You agreed with the ineffective empty sets we run.  I guess we agree there. Probably little else but who knows we have weeks to go.

Part of coaching whether it’s tee ball, wrestling or midget football is putting guys in situations so the team can succeed.  Before we take a snap - I don’t consider Hillard flanked out and used as a WR on a potential game winning drive the winning formula. The 0-16 Browns with Coleman and Britt sure why not we had nothing there 

Hilliard isn't Kamara, and that isn't what I'm saying.

I agreed that our empty can* be ineffective at times. Mostly in the Red zone. We've also used them well at times including a couple quick hitters to *gasp* Hilliard.

I'd take Hilliard over no route Coleman and semi retired Britt.

[OldBrownsFan]

7 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Hilliard isn't Kamara, and that isn't what I'm saying.

I agreed that our empty can* be ineffective at times. Mostly in the Red zone. We've also used them well at times including a couple quick hitters to *gasp* Hilliard.

I'd take Hilliard over no route Coleman and semi retired Britt.

Tiam one of the announcers of the game kept talking about how much he disagreed with the Browns using pulling guards in short yardage situations. Your thoughts? It does seem like the Browns have problems in short yardage situations and we have an excellent runner in Chubb.

[jrb12711]

This game was lost before half time, plain and simple. The Browns had an easy chance to AT WORST go into the locker room at 23-12 without giving the ball back to the Seahawks. Giving the call for hurry up in that situation will be in a video guide of how to coach your way to a loss. I'm still so irrationally angry at how lousy that decision was.

Kitchens is in over his head, and very well may be a one and done coach. I sure don't expect a win after the bye, but we need to see what Kitchens does with a little time. It's becoming more apparent each week though that a seasoned coach may be what the doctor ordered for future seasons.

[tiamat63]

41 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said:

Tiam one of the announcers of the game kept talking about how much he disagreed with the Browns using pulling guards in short yardage situations. Your thoughts? It does seem like the Browns have problems in short yardage situations and we have an excellent runner in Chubb.

 

Depends. If it's 1st and 5, 2nd and short or maybe I'm sitting on a comfortable lead vs a suspect front - pull away.

In the situation you're (most likely) referring to, and with our Oline - then yes, I tend to side with the announement in this case.  If it's 3rd or 4th and short and I need it, but I know I'm handing the ball off... Then I'm throwing a lead in the backfield, running my best ISO and telling you to beat my line and my 225lb halfback coming downhill hat on hat.

No chance at someone knifing under the pull and that getting blown up ala the Aaron Donald special. No chance at the pull being late or, in some, cases, not getting there at all.  

 

 

[browns52]

5 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

This game was lost before half time, plain and simple. The Browns had an easy chance to AT WORST go into the locker room at 23-12 without giving the ball back to the Seahawks. Giving the call for hurry up in that situation will be in a video guide of how to coach your way to a loss. I'm still so irrationally angry at how lousy that decision was.

Kitchens is in over his head, and very well may be a one and done coach. I sure don't expect a win after the bye, but we need to see what Kitchens does with a little time. It's becoming more apparent each week though that a seasoned coach may be what the doctor ordered for future seasons.

the mgmt fucked up the chemistry this season....ol was much better last yr and then we get rid of a guard....that is part of the problem...baker is bad this yr....last i know he had the worse qb rating...so we go and take kitchens and make him a hc...last yr he was the oc and i believe that is why baker was better...so we have a rookie hc with all this talent....problem is kitchy now has too much responsibility and cannot concentrate on baker...i wish we had rex ryan as hc....kitchy as oc....and williams as dc....wow...now i know folks will say ryan never did anything as hc...well guess what, he almost got the jets to the super bowl with one of the crapiest qb's in the history of the nfl....he never had the talent that this team has....what a shame...

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

19 hours ago, hoorta said:

 Freddie? I'm reserving judgement for a few more games. The problem is- as I said earlier in another thread- some guys think we should be at worst 5-1 and smoking playoff teams

Freddie’s poor game managing is concerning me the most. 

Score: Browns 20-12. Browns second down inside the Seattle 10.

2nd Quarter: inside 2 minute warning WITH CLOCK RUNNING..

The situation is screaming to run the ball on second down, after wasting clock, and force Seattle to burn there last timeout.

What did Baker do? Snap the ball with about 15 seconds on the play-clock and throw an INT. Giving the ball to Wilson in the 2 minute offense WITH 1 timeout still. They take advantage and make it a close 20-18 halftime score instead of 23-12.

Should not be happening at the NFL level.

[hoorta]

34 minutes ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Freddie’s poor game managing is concerning me the most. 

Score: Browns 20-12. Browns second down inside the Seattle 10.

2nd Quarter: inside 2 minute warning WITH CLOCK RUNNING..

The situation is screaming to run the ball on second down, after wasting clock, and force Seattle to burn there last timeout.

What did Baker do? Snap the ball with about 15 seconds on the play-clock and throw an INT. Giving the ball to Wilson in the 2 minute offense WITH 1 timeout still. They take advantage and make it a close 20-18 halftime score instead of 23-12.

Should not be happening at the NFL level.

Yup, that was damn poor use of clock management- not as bad as some of Hue's head scratchers- but close. At worst, you do another running play after the 'Hawks are out of time outs, and try for a FG with no time left on the clock.  Brings up memories of the bad play calling at the end of the Rams game. 

 

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, browns52 said:

the mgmt fucked up the chemistry this season....ol was much better last yr and then we get rid of a guard....that is part of the problem...baker is bad this yr....last i know he had the worse qb rating...so we go and take kitchens and make him a hc...last yr he was the oc and i believe that is why baker was better...so we have a rookie hc with all this talent....problem is kitchy now has too much responsibility and cannot concentrate on baker...i wish we had rex ryan as hc....kitchy as oc....and williams as dc....wow...now i know folks will say ryan never did anything as hc...well guess what, he almost got the jets to the super bowl with one of the crapiest qb's in the history of the nfl....he never had the talent that this team has....what a shame...

 

The Oline has been a convenient scapegoat but Kevin Zeitler doesn’t improve play calls, stupid penalties, Baker’s decisions, mechanics or the fact that Baker leaves clean pockets at an alarming rate.  

[SdBacker80]

54 minutes ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Freddie’s poor game managing is concerning me the most. 

Score: Browns 20-12. Browns second down inside the Seattle 10.

2nd Quarter: inside 2 minute warning WITH CLOCK RUNNING..

The situation is screaming to run the ball on second down, after wasting clock, and force Seattle to burn there last timeout.

What did Baker do? Snap the ball with about 15 seconds on the play-clock and throw an INT. Giving the ball to Wilson in the 2 minute offense WITH 1 timeout still. They take advantage and make it a close 20-18 halftime score instead of 23-12.

Should not be happening at the NFL level.

Correct and up to that point I would argue just His play calling/weekly game plans on occasion was questioned and his ability to influence the team from a discipline/don’t do stupid stuff perspective.

I’ve  defended his take the ball first approach against run based teams.  The end of the half yesterday there was no excuse.  I would have been happier with a delay of game after burning 45 seconds. Three bone headed calls- then a FG leaving Russ no time - 23-12 should have been the worst case scenario 

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

Yup, that was damn poor use of clock management- not as bad as some of Hue's head scratchers- but close. At worst, you do another running play after the 'Hawks are out of time outs, and try for a FG with no time left on the clock.  Brings up memories of the bad play calling at the end of the Rams game. 

 

A second down run, hell, even an end around to one of the playmakers would’ve allowed for 1 shot to the end zone on 3rd down(or another run to waste clock), and a chance to make like bandits. 

If I see that again, I can’t say I’ll be wanting to watch anymore of this. Playcalling has got to be more calculated.

[SdBacker80]

I don’t want to see a pass on 3rd and 1 again or an empty set (5 WRs) with a back flanked out 

[jiggins7919]

14 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

I don’t want to see a pass on 3rd and 1 again or an empty set (5 WRs) with a back flanked out 

We've done it all year and I HATE IT. If we get 3rd and 1 I know we're punting it. Sign a damn legit fullback, go jumbo package, and get the damn yard. Baker is absolutely abysmal with empty set, Jesus man. 

[SdBacker80]

8 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

We've done it all year and I HATE IT. If we get 3rd and 1 I know we're punting it. Sign a damn legit fullback, go jumbo package, and get the damn yard. Baker is absolutely abysmal with empty set, Jesus man. 

New rule too...anytime it’s first and goal inside the 5 at least two plays must be running plays.  

[jiggins7919]

12 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

New rule too...anytime it’s first and goal inside the 5 at least two plays must be running plays.  

Last year, I loved passing from the 5 or so. And I know Njoku's absence really hurts, as well as losing Duke, but Jesus H. I can't think of a time when going spread formation has worked. It's ALWAYS a shit show and I don't know why! Baker targeting Demetrius Harris instead of OBJ or Landry. Nobody open and Baker sprinting right and throwing out out of bounds. The list goes on. I'm to the point of just doing QB sneaks every down. If you have the effing ball at the 1, do the Tom Brady sneak every play. It WILL work. 

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

34 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

 Baker is absolutely abysmal with empty set, Jesus man. 

Bashing the franchise QB. We’re better than this.

[SdBacker80]

4 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

Last year, I loved passing from the 5 or so. And I know Njoku's absence really hurts, as well as losing Duke, but Jesus H. I can't think of a time when going spread formation has worked. It's ALWAYS a shit show and I don't know why! Baker targeting Demetrius Harris instead of OBJ or Landry. Nobody open and Baker sprinting right and throwing out out of bounds. The list goes on. I'm to the point of just doing QB sneaks every down. If you have the effing ball at the 1, do the Tom Brady sneak every play. It WILL work. 

Yeah Going to Harris is 0 for 2 at the goal line.  I had a 9er Fan next to me at the MNF game saying thanks for not targeting Beckham or giving the ball to Chubb.  

This Browns team reminds of a Charger team 10 years ago or so.  They had legit weapons but they had a really slow start lots of it attributed to play calling and some Rivers bad decisions.  They used to run (if they ran it) Sproles up the gut they had really decent young back too.  Rivers would target everyone but Gates at the goal line.  It was a weird start they had a tough schedule out of the gate too and then rattled of multiple win streaks to end the year.  They were a  Playoff team that year then a typical Charger choke job.

i think if we fix the play caller and get our corners back we could do something similar second half 

[browns52]

58 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

 

The Oline has been a convenient scapegoat but Kevin Zeitler doesn’t improve play calls, stupid penalties, Baker’s decisions, mechanics or the fact that Baker leaves clean pockets at an alarming rate.  

true.....don't understand though that doesn/t this organization know that games are won and lost on the ol and dl, which we don't have either...you can have all the talent in the world at the skill positions but if your ol sucks, it won't matter....the penalties, that is on the coach...lack of discipline falls on the hc period...and we still can't stop the run....carson actually had more rushing yds than chubb yesterday....watching those squeelers last night is a good example that the dl and ol matters....they won with a third string qb on the road against eh a decent team...they ran the ball well and that d that pit has is really good...don't count on automatic wins against them because  ben is out...right now they can beat the browns with what they got...

[Orion]

3 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Freddie’s poor game managing is concerning me the most. 

Score: Browns 20-12. Browns second down inside the Seattle 10.

2nd Quarter: inside 2 minute warning WITH CLOCK RUNNING..

The situation is screaming to run the ball on second down, after wasting clock, and force Seattle to burn there last timeout.

What did Baker do? Snap the ball with about 15 seconds on the play-clock and throw an INT. Giving the ball to Wilson in the 2 minute offense WITH 1 timeout still. They take advantage and make it a close 20-18 halftime score instead of 23-12.

Anybody know if Freddie has been asked by a reporter about that?

My thinking is that the up tempo style was working for them and that he didn't want to break that mojo.   Their red zone struggles have been duly noted by the media.  Freddie was trying desperately to score a TD.  -  I would've gone the traditional route at that point and drew their last TO out of them. 

[Dutch Oven]

3 hours ago, Orion said:

Anybody know if Freddie has been asked by a reporter about that?

My thinking is that the up tempo style was working for them and that he didn't want to break that mojo.   Their red zone struggles have been duly noted by the media.  Freddie was trying desperately to score a TD.  -  I would've gone the traditional route at that point and drew their last TO out of them. 

He was! Daryl Ruiter this morning on 92.3 was talking about that mismanaged end of the half situation, and someone asked Freddie after the game why they seemed to be in a hurry to score instead of running out the clock as much as possible...

"I was planning on scoring as fast as possible so we could get the ball BACK AGAIN AND SCORE AGAIN." is what Freddie answered with. 

The guy went full Retard with this. Who the fuck tries to score with less than 3 minutes in the half as fast as possible so they can give the ball back to possibly the hottest QB in the NFL this season with the idea that his defense will force a three and out and score again? What a buffoon. 

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

Not paying the opponent any respect. Idk about y’all but Russell Wilson is not the opponent to give the ball to in the 2 minute offense. He’s a seasoned veteran.

One of the best QBs in the game. 

[beare]

I agree baker hasnt been accurate on some throws but also lets not forget the wrs letting balls bounce of them for ints!

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

25 minutes ago, beare said:

I agree baker hasnt been accurate on some throws but also lets not forget the wrs letting balls bounce of them for ints!

This, too. Two hands on it, then should be a catch. Not helping Baker out, to say the least. 

One good coaching aspect of G. Williams was the discipline and mental toughness:

”NO passes should hit the ground..” 

 

[gumby73]

2 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

One good coaching aspect of G. Williams was the discipline and mental toughness:

agree 👌..and am not saying Greg Williams did not have some faults during his time here.he did. but before GW got here, we were the worse team to watch to even try to tackle anybody..That changed by changing one technique ..Take the axle (knee) or wheels(ankle) off the ball carrier..It's totally missing from this Wilks defense, imo. 

Week 1..Tenn. Back-up LT Kelly/No Luwan..

Week 2..Jets. No Darnold/CJ Mosley/Q.Williams, and a back-up Center played 20 snaps  

Week 3.. Full Rams roster

Week 4..Ravens. No starting CB Jimmy Smith/No starting DE Brandon Williams- all starters on OL played for Ravens 

Week 5..49'ers. No LT Joe Staley/RT Mike McClinchey goes down & sits out 4th quarter. and did not play week 6 

Week 6..Seahawks. No starting G nor LT..Fluker & Duane Brown were both out  

My point being, 1.) along with our tackling now taking another hit? 2.) Where the heck is big dollar FA's Richardson & Vernon on this vaunted starting front 4?

To be fair to the refs? a 15 yard piling on penalty was accepted 

[Orion]

3 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

"I was planning on scoring as fast as possible so we could get the ball BACK AGAIN AND SCORE AGAIN." is what Freddie answered with. 

OK, that's exactly what I was thinking his reasoning was.  It's a plan.  It's a Patriots type of thing.

[Dutch Oven]

Just now, Orion said:

OK, that's exactly what I was thinking his reasoning was.  It's a plan.  It's a Patriots type of thing.

The Patriots would try to score a touchdown as fast as they could around the 2:00 warning, bank on forcing the hottest QB in the NFL to go 3 and out, use all of their timeouts to keep a small amount of time on the clock, and drive down and score again? 

A FG at that point would have made the score 23-12 Browns. A touchdown at that point would have made the score 27-12.

Kitchens completely mismanaged that whole situation. That was a nonsense plan.