The 'Who you watching?' 2020 thread.

[Tour2ma]

4 hours ago, browns52 said:

and he will still run the four two five d which i hate also....and we will get the same results....he sucks as a dc....he is as bad as hillbilly freddy is as hc....

4-2-5 brings Nickel to mind. Our base is a 4-3 with a Safety (Burris) filling the Will slot and he plays as the Will. When we go Nickel Burris is replaced by Carrie.

In any scheme it's the personnel that make or break it? Is Burris the ideal Will? Probably not, but FWIW he grades out at PFF as our 2nd best starting LB.

Like it or not undersized, LB/DB hybrids are the Modern D's response to the WR/TE hybrids that have taken hold... and as the league morphs towards more RPO oriented attacks, the hybrid LB is going to be part of that response as well.

[Orion]

2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

4-2-5 brings Nickel to mind. Our base is a 4-3 with a Safety (Burris) filling the Will slot and he plays as the Will. When we go Nickel Burris is replaced by Carrie.

Prior to the start of the season I was interested in seeing the 4-2-5 work.  I thought it was a nice idea in today's passing NFL.  And you're IN the nickle quite a bit anyway.  The catch is, you've still gotta stop the run.  And not just at the goal line with your jumbo package.

It's disappointing to not reach the playoffs....finally.....but the fact is, we're just not good enough.  We've got too many weak areas.  We weren't gonna DO anything in the playoffs.  It's defense that wins championships...and our crippled D wasn't going to be able to do that.  And besides that, it's offense that's needed to GET to the playoffs so that your D can win you the championship....and our offense is not consistent enough.

[Dutch Oven]

You know what would help the 4-2-5 work well?

A team that scores a lot of points and puts opposing teams in consistent catch-up mode. 

That is not the Browns, so teams just get physical with the Browns and run it down their throats. 

[The Gipper]

14 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

4-2-5 brings Nickel to mind. Our base is a 4-3 with a Safety (Burris) filling the Will slot and he plays as the Will. When we go Nickel Burris is replaced by Carrie.

In any scheme it's the personnel that make or break it? Is Burris the ideal Will? Probably not, but FWIW he grades out at PFF as our 2nd best starting LB.

Well...since we are only playing 2 LBs.....being second best also means being last, no?

LIke, Michael Spinks came in 2d best to Mike Tyson....even though Tyson knocked him out in like 91 seconds. 

Like it or not undersized, LB/DB hybrids are the Modern D's response to the WR/TE hybrids that have taken hold... and as the league morphs towards more RPO oriented attacks, the hybrid LB is going to be part of that response as well.

 

[Orion]

18 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

You know what would help the 4-2-5 work well?

A team that scores a lot of points and puts opposing teams in consistent catch-up mode. 

That is not the Browns,

But it's what they were 'supposed' to be!   OBJ, Landry, Chubb, Callaway, Higgins, Baker!!

Remember when Freddie tried to attack the end of the first half against Seattle?  When he tried to score, then hold them, and then score again?   He, and we, found out that they weren't that explosive, killer offense.  One time, early in the season, he won the coin flip and elected to receive.  He wanted his explosive offense to come out and set the tone, win the crowd, start the momentum.    Not to be...

[MLD Woody]

I imagine a lot of teams are in some kind of nickel a lot of the time now

[Orion]

So what's our time-line going to look like?

Is it, New Uniforms, FA, Draft?   or  FA, New Uni's, Draft?  

[Tour2ma]

Here's some draft talk for you. Take the following 1st round scenario I came across playing with one of the draft sims, First-Pick.

1. Cinci trades out of the #1 overall with JAX. They figure one of the two top QBs will be there at #8, their next pick. JAX selects Chase Young with the #1 overall.
2. NYG takes one of the hotter Edge prospects, AJ Epesa, Iowa.
3. MIA takes a LT... Tristen Wirfs, Iowa... surprising, but they have more 1sts with which to get a QB (they take Hebert later).
4. NYJ trades up with WSH to take the other hot LT prospect, Andrew Thomas, UGA...
5. DET takes the hot LB prospect... Clemson's Isaiah Simmons.
6. AZ is on the clock...

• You know from pre-draft discussions (or playing the sim earlier) that if you offer AZ your 2020 and 2021 #1's they will likely say yes.
• The three players you were (or at least I was) targeting (Wirfs, Thomas, Simmons) when you had the early convos with AZ are all gone, but...
• Joe Burrows is there.

Do you call AZ and make the offer?

If not for Joe, is there another prospect you think worth the price, e.g., Delpit, LSU's Safety, or Buckeye CB, Okudah?

[gumby73]

15 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Here's some draft talk for you. Take the following 1st round scenario I came across playing with one of the draft sims, First-Pick.

1. Cinci trades out of the #1 overall with JAX. They figure one of the two top QBs will be there at #8, their next pick. JAX selects Chase Young with the #1 overall.
2. NYG takes one of the hotter Edge prospects, AJ Epesa, Iowa.
3. MIA takes a LT... Tristen Wirfs, Iowa... surprising, but they have more 1sts with which to get a QB (they take Hebert later).
4. NYJ trades up with WSH to take the other hot LT prospect, Andrew Thomas, UGA...
5. DET takes the hot LB prospect... LSU's Isaiah Simmons.
6. AZ is on the clock...

• You know from pre-draft discussions (or playing the sim earlier) that if you offer AZ your 2020 and 2021 #1's they will likely say yes.
• The three players you were (or at least I was) targeting (Wirfs, Thomas, Simmons) when you had the early convos with AZ are all gone, but...
• Joe Burrows is there.

Do you call AZ and make the offer?

If not for Joe, is there another prospect you think worth the price, e.g., Delpit, LSU's Safety, or Buckeye CB, Okudah?

LB I.Simmons plays at The' Clemson University...My BPA is Auburn DT Derrick Brown...need is S Delpit..we get Bake a Vet not named Stanton..  

[Tour2ma]

10 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

LB I.Simmons plays at The' Clemson University...My BPA is Auburn DT Derrick Brown...need is S Delpit..we get Bake a Vet not named Stanton..  

Fixed... don't know why, but every year I give LSU an extra prospect or two.

Brown's a top DL to be sure, but seems rich for two #1s... as does Delpit. Okudah might be that good, but not a trade I'd make for him.

 

FWIW... I took Burrows... 😮

[tiamat63]

Burrow isn't making it out of the top 5.

[mjp28]

15 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

 

FWIW... I took Burrows... 😮

 "The Heisman winner and next Tom Brady".   That has to be the double kiss of death.  

[gumby73]

17 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

FWIW... I took Burrows... 😮

after 15 minutes u would have seen  'took Burrow didn't ya" lol... 2 1's rich$

[Tour2ma]

21 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Burrow isn't making it out of the top 5 2.

FIFY...

Yeah... I hear you, but if he did would you go get him?

[MLD Woody]

37 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

FIFY...

Yeah... I hear you, but if he did would you go get him?

No. You don't quit on Baker yet. You've seen the potential. You just get a competent staff around him 

[MLD Woody]

I love mocks that have us taking a safety, or worse, a WR

[tiamat63]

9 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

FIFY...

Yeah... I hear you, but if he did would you go get him?

As of typing this, Burrow might be the best 'pro ready' looking QB I've seen since Luck.  Kid has it all. 

Would I pull the trigger on that? I don't think I can answer that as of now.  But I'm not jealous of the person who would be in the position to make such a difficult choice.

Edit: I will say this - lost in all the talk of Freddie and Wilks, I believe this team (really, Baker) misses the knowledge and direction coach Zampese provided.

 

[The Gipper]

12 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Here's some draft talk for you. Take the following 1st round scenario I came across playing with one of the draft sims, First-Pick.

1. Cinci trades out of the #1 overall with JAX. They figure one of the two top QBs will be there at #8, their next pick. JAX selects Chase Young with the #1 overall.
2. NYG takes one of the hotter Edge prospects, AJ Epesa, Iowa.
3. MIA takes a LT... Tristen Wirfs, Iowa... surprising, but they have more 1sts with which to get a QB (they take Hebert later).
4. NYJ trades up with WSH to take the other hot LT prospect, Andrew Thomas, UGA...
5. DET takes the hot LB prospect... Clemson's Isaiah Simmons.
6. AZ is on the clock...

• You know from pre-draft discussions (or playing the sim earlier) that if you offer AZ your 2020 and 2021 #1's they will likely say yes.
• The three players you were (or at least I was) targeting (Wirfs, Thomas, Simmons) when you had the early convos with AZ are all gone, but...
• Joe Burrows is there.

Do you call AZ and make the offer?

If not for Joe, is there another prospect you think worth the price, e.g., Delpit, LSU's Safety, or Buckeye CB, Okudah?

If you are who?   The Browns?   No way.  I mean, I like Joe Burrow.....but I by no means see him as a sure fire can't miss pro prospect.  He reminds me of Jared Goff...who I think of in the same light.   Sure, Goff played well enough to get his team to the SB...in the right system.  And the same could be true with Joe.   But, as a Browns fan,  I am in no way clamoring for Burrow over Baker.....if that is your implication. 

[Buck The Frowns]

Pick a player whose first name begins with De or La, or has unnecessary apostrophes in their name. They seem to work out. Also an Anglo Saxonish last name. The more apostrophes the better. Like DeForest Kelley or something.

[The Gipper]

41 minutes ago, Buck The Frowns said:

Pick a player whose first name begins with De or La, or has unnecessary apostrophes in their name. They seem to work out. Also an Anglo Saxonish last name. The more apostrophes the better. Like DeForest Kelley or something.

You mean like Dennis or  Larry?  

DeCastro?  De with Hispanic last name.

Or are you looking for like  "O'Neil"  O'Brian  O'Gill

Then their was  By'not'e  Butler.

[mjp28]

46 minutes ago, Buck The Frowns said:

Pick a player whose first name begins with De or La, or has unnecessary apostrophes in their name. They seem to work out. Also an Anglo Saxonish last name. The more apostrophes the better. Like DeForest Kelley or something.

Like Leroy DeForest Kelly ?

[Buck The Frowns]

Gip I think his name was Butler By’note’. Unfortunately he was just a journeyman d back, and By’note’ became a mere fo’otnote’. If he had but one more unnecessary apostrophe he might have become a star.

Guys with an Islamic sounding first name and the last name from one of the early Presidents are also potentially good draft picks. Mohammed Jackson, Khalid Van Buren, Jamal Jefferson.

[Tour2ma]

18 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

No. You don't quit on Baker yet. You've seen the potential. You just get a competent staff around him 

Or you push Baker with some real competition. I think he came into this season a little complacent. It was his first one in years where he did to have to fight for the starting job.

Plus one of the reasons I'd pull that trigger is that regardless of which QB won the job, I feel that at minimum I'd recover a 2021 1st-round pick when I traded the runner-up.

9 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

As of typing this, Burrow might be the best 'pro ready' looking QB I've seen since Luck.  Kid has it all.

Agree... he's my new, "Best since Luck" as well. That's why it's easy to pull that trigger.

[The Gipper]

36 minutes ago, Buck The Frowns said:

Gip I think his name was Butler By’note’. Unfortunately he was just a journeyman d back, and By’note’ became a mere fo’otnote’. If he had but one more unnecessary apostrophe he might have become a star.

Guys with an Islamic sounding first name and the last name from one of the early Presidents are also potentially good draft picks. Mohammed Jackson, Khalid Van Buren, Jamal Jefferson.

Malik Monroe?   Jor-el Washington,  Kal-el Adams  Zor-el Hancock? 

Err, wait, some of those are Kryptonian names. 

[calfoxwc]

20 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Do you call AZ and make the offer?

oh, hell no. IT makes no sense to go after a qb, even that kid from LSU - and still have the problems

with the offensive line. Now, if I had a chance at Young...then....

[The Gipper]

54 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

oh, hell no. IT makes no sense to go after a qb, even that kid from LSU - and still have the problems

with the offensive line. Now, if I had a chance at Young...then....

These are the prospects that are ranked between 10 and 20 by CBS for what that is worth.   Anyone of interest?
 

10	Javon Kinlaw	South Carolina	Sr	DL	1	6-6	310
11	A.J. Epenesa	Iowa	Jr	EDGE	2	6-6	280
12	Henry Ruggs III	Alabama	Jr	WR	3	6-0	190
13	Derrick Brown	Auburn	Sr	DL	2	6-5	318
14	Kristian Fulton	LSU	Sr	CB	2	6-0	200
15	Tristan Wirfs	Iowa	Jr	OL	2	6-5	322
16	D'Andre Swift	Georgia	Jr	RB	1	5-9	215
17	Kenneth Murray	Oklahoma	Jr	LB	1	6-2	234
18	Tee Higgins	Clemson	Jr	WR	4	6-4	215
19	Jedrick Wills Jr.	Alabama	Jr	OL	3	6-5	320
20	Yetur Gross-Matos	Penn St.	Jr	EDGE	3	6-5	264

[MLD Woody]

Wirfs then

[Buck The Frowns]

28 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

These are the prospects that are ranked between 10 and 20 by CBS for what that is worth.   Anyone of interest?
 

10	Javon Kinlaw	South Carolina	Sr	DL	1	6-6	310
11	A.J. Epenesa	Iowa	Jr	EDGE	2	6-6	280
12	Henry Ruggs III	Alabama	Jr	WR	3	6-0	190
13	Derrick Brown	Auburn	Sr	DL	2	6-5	318
14	Kristian Fulton	LSU	Sr	CB	2	6-0	200
15	Tristan Wirfs	Iowa	Jr	OL	2	6-5	322
16	D'Andre Swift	Georgia	Jr	RB	1	5-9	215
17	Kenneth Murray	Oklahoma	Jr	LB	1	6-2	234
18	Tee Higgins	Clemson	Jr	WR	4	6-4	215
19	Jedrick Wills Jr.	Alabama	Jr	OL	3	6-5	320
20	Yetur Gross-Matos	Penn St.	Jr	EDGE	3	6-5	264

D’Andre Swift has a name that begins with “De” (phonetically anyway) and has an unnecessary apostrophe. I say take him if you can. He is going to be good.

[tiamat63]

3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Or you push Baker with some real competition. I think he came into this season a little complacent. It was his first one in years where he did to have to fight for the starting job.

Plus one of the reasons I'd pull that trigger is that regardless of which QB won the job, I feel that at minimum I'd recover a 2021 1st-round pick when I traded the runner-up.

Agree... he's my new, "Best since Luck" as well. That's why it's easy to pull that trigger.

 

Before a couple hours ago, I hadn't gone back to watch a game of Joe's with fresh eyes... but it's hard to not love what you see from him.   LOVE.   Well beyond more so than what many did with Baker pre-draft.     JB's work pre-snap, even with something simple like a dummy count to see who declares, is more advanced than where Baker showed in college.    (And at times, shows now)

 

Hard to not be impressed by a great deal of his tape.            So to answer your question, were a team to offer me a 1st for Baker and I was Dorsey in a position to nab Burrow?  Yes, I'd pull that trigger.

 

 

[SD_Tom]

19 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 

Before a couple hours ago, I hadn't gone back to watch a game of Joe's with fresh eyes... but it's hard to not love what you see from him.   LOVE.   Well beyond more so than what many did with Baker pre-draft.     JB's work pre-snap, even with something simple like a dummy count to see who declares, is more advanced than where Baker showed in college.    (And at times, shows now)

 

Hard to not be impressed by a great deal of his tape.            So to answer your question, were a team to offer me a 1st for Baker and I was Dorsey in a position to nab Burrow?  Yes, I'd pull that trigger.

 

 

Would love to get Burrow.  There's just something cool about an Ohio kid playing for the Browns. 

There's nothing this season that inspires any confidence in Baker being The Guy. 

With the talent on that side of the ball, there's just no way he should be this much worse.  It's very disappointing