Bold idea that would change the landscape of sports in Cleveland

[D Bone]

This is the last post on my attempt to get you guys/gals to turn on NBCSN at 8:30EST. I will monitor this thread throughout the race in case anyone gives it a try and has any questions regarding the race. 

2-1/2hrs until the greatest show on earth begins, and I'll just leave these here..................

 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, D Bone said:

Supercross is winter and spring, then the outdoor motocross season starts. These dudes race all year long with only 3 months off. They race in Detroit and Minn with their lids..... They just won't put the fans in an outside stadium in the frozen night time. 

SX is in stadiums, while MotoX is on long, natural tracks where they race 2 motos each 45min long plus 2 laps after the time limit..... shit that will end you on a summer day, no matter how fit you are. 

Don't know why one would be in winter/spring and one is summer. Aren't they basically the same thing. Guys on bikes racing over heaps of dirt. Dirt bike racing.  Dune buggy racing...whatever. 

The only things like that I like are the ones where the guys do it on snowboards and on ice skates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWcmTQ1tWbI

[Ibleedbrown]

Not being a native Clevelander or anyone who visits with any regularity l’m not sure l have much to add to this, but l’ll try.

I have some issues with big crowds. Not like anxiety or anything, but it’s a hassle moving through a sea of people and it’s something l consider when attending an event. I’m generally all for anything that “beats people away”, and if cold weather wards off a few ninnies then it’s less people to wade through. Also, a dome might give the “feel” that it’s more packed then what it is. 

I also think it’s a good idea to spruce up the Lakefront, like Dutch suggested. Here in Cincy we have “the Banks project” where they’ve been doing just that along the Ohio river. It’s been years in the making, but l gotta say it is quite nice and definitely livens things up between the stadiums.

A devil’s advocate perspective to that is the Ohio river is certainly no Lake Erie. It’ll flood from time to time, but certainly less of the driving winds and bitter cold. So basically, the same elements that make regular repairs to the Browns stadium is going to affect anything you build on the lakefront, so it will have to be maintained with similar frequency.

[The Gipper]

Well....we have our own River which is developed all over the place. That is where a lot of the water development takes place:  In the Flats.

[The Gipper]

[D Bone]

21 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Don't know why one would be in winter/spring and one is summer. Aren't they basically the same thing. Guys on bikes racing over heaps of dirt.

No.

Supercross is held in football stadiums with 100% man made tracks. The tracks are much shorter with more laps making up a race. Lap times are around 2 minutes per lap. The tracks have way more jumps and "rhythm/flow", as well as slower overall top end speeds due to the shorter straight a-ways. All seats in the stadium are great ones. 

Motocross is held on outdoor tracks that are 70% natural terrain and 30% man made jumps and whoops (whoops = huge section of 4' tall bumps, like moguls in snow skiing). The track is much, much longer with lap times around 6 minutes per lap. The tracks have much longer and rougher straight a-ways that result in much higher top end speeds than what you'll see tonight. Fans are sprawled out all over a 200-300 acre facility.

Supercross is much more fan friendly and is considered a spectacle of the greatest riders on the planet. 

Motocross is the gritty Godfather of the sport and generally preferred to Supercross by us guys that have actually done it.... although I love both. 

Yes, it's the same guys on the same bikes doing both disciplines, but much like in NASCAR, it's the difference between a 2.5 mile super speedway like Daytona, and a 15 turn road course like Sonoma..... Same drivers, same cars, yet completely and totally different. 

Hope this helps, and hope you give it a fair shot in a couple hours! 

 

[hoorta]

6 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Sweet Jesus, my post could not have flown any higher over your head if it was flying first class in a 747. 

Apparently the post you're referring to got deleted before I saw it. 

[D Bone]

College basketball is on NBCSN before Supercross and lord knows that with its 100 TOs per team, it will run over into the start of the race. They will show every painful second of the game before finally switching over to Texas Stadium. So for anyone who gives the race a try, it will eventually be on once basketball mercifully ends. 

Boy do I love basketball. 

[SdBacker80]

7 hours ago, hoorta said:

I'll  add my two cents about  First Energy  here. 

First about  putting a  dome on it. Can't  and won't  happen. Structurally  wasn't  built for one. Putting a  bubble  over it has already  been  suggested.  Retrofitting  it with the requisite HVAC would be a  nightmare.  If you want a  dome, more  efficient to start from  scratch,  and the going  rate seems to be  around  $2 billion to go that route. 

As to there being "nothing wrong" with it, I'll  disagree.  My Bucket List is to see the Browns  play in every  NFL venue,  and I'm  about 1\2 way there. When the  stadium was built,  the goal was to replicate the "feel" of the old place as closely as possible.  Bad idea. The concourse behind the  stands is woefully cramped (sardine  city) compared to  almost all of the other stadiums.  Paul Brown in Cincinnati has at least triple if not four times  the space. I was really  hoping  when Jimmy  poured  millions into the  stadium  renovation,  he'd  address  the shortcomings,  but it didn't  happen. BTW, when planning for the stadium  originally  came out, the fan opinion was overwhelming "no dome". 

FWIW,  by my count,  there's 15 teams with the potential of a cold weather  game, and three domes. Tells me all I need to know.  Apparently there's a lot of  wimps afraid of  getting  their  toes cold. 

I think the few criticisms I’ve heard of First Energy are nitpicking.  

how and why do you replicate steel beams blocking your view or getting splinters on your backside in the pound?   Should they have made an unnatural fit with a baseball field in the stadium too so the seats were further away from the field.  It was never going to be close to Municipal Stadium. 

Of the following I’ve been to the last four years.  Is it Jerry World - no. that is in a class by itself. 
 I’d put it on par with Met Life, Phoenix Stadium, SFs new stadium.  Actually I was very unimpressed with SF.  It had a roomy concourse but the back concourse didn’t have one f’ing TV you couldn’t even tell you were at a game.  The atmosphere around the stadium was very amateurish for an NFL venue.  Met Life I got a private tour of it- it was nice I guess. Didn’t actually see a game there but the facility was new but nothing spectacular.  Phoenix Stadium I liked more- I saw the 2016 Fiesta Bowl there. 
 

and I went to the final game at the Q our stadium was much better the Qualcomm of course.  

[Dutch Oven]

5 hours ago, hoorta said:

 Don't be sarcastic. You still didn't answer my question.  FWIW, Chicago's population is 2.7 million . Cleveland's is 385,000- and you think we can somehow compete with skyscraper city Downtown Chicago? Sorry, Severance Hall and University Circle aren't  on the Lakefront- but the Rock & Roll HOF is, ditto the Great Lakes Science center. You probably know if you've been to downtown Cleveland lately- all the partying (except on Browns gameday- that's over on the west side around West 9th and the lots) is up at East 4th around Gateway. I don't see any practical way of eliminating the shipping docks, Coast Guard Station, the Marinas and Burke. The Coast Guard is a necessity, and the others are all revenue producers. Sorry it's not culturally up to your standards. 

Regarding Dayton- do a little research before you speak about "vibrant". I could come on up to Canal Fulton to take a canal boat ride. Been through there on the bike path.    With a city population of 140,000 Downtown Dayton is booming on a relative level. There's been over a 1\2 billion of development downtown with more coming, and condos are getting sold as fast as developers can build them. https://www.daytondailynews.com/business/economy/see-where-millions-have-been-spent-improve-downtown-dayton/hGhhqD6U2v0w5AoSg0icdL/

Jesus hoorta, did Gipper steal your password and post under your name all day? 😃 You started by rambling about some imaginary beef I supposedly was having with Tour (still scratching my head on that one), then we'll move on to.... 

Did I say that Cleveland needed to have a lakefront JUST LIKE CHICAGO? I said the city of Cleveland should utilize their lakefront LIKE Chicago AND Milwaukee (funny how you never mention the other city in my original post), instead of misusing so much of it like it has for pretty much Cleveland's entire history. There's a reason why people have mentioned how poorly Cleveland utilizes its greatest natural benefit, and that for all intents and purposes Cleveland might as well be located in the middle of Kansas due to how little it does with its lakefront. 

Put a boardwalk on it, expand the park system on it, build neighborhoods near it, hotels, restaurants, hell a real aquarium is a great idea actually (I've been to the one in Newport across from Cincinnati, and from what people have told me it destroys Cleveland's.)  Cleveland can't build apartments fast enough for downtown, I would have to believe people would love to live near the lake, too. The possibilities are endless, and so much of the lakefront is wasted. 

And I was going to make a joke about Dayton being the Youngstown of southwestern Ohio, but I couldn't do that to mjp…. 😉

(No better illustration of the complete lack of utilization of Cleveland's lakefront than this photo.)

 

[The Gipper]

4 hours ago, D Bone said:

No.

Supercross is held in football stadiums with 100% man made tracks. The tracks are much shorter with more laps making up a race. Lap times are around 2 minutes per lap. The tracks have way more jumps and "rhythm/flow", as well as slower overall top end speeds due to the shorter straight a-ways. All seats in the stadium are great ones. 

Motocross is held on outdoor tracks that are 70% natural terrain and 30% man made jumps and whoops (whoops = huge section of 4' tall bumps, like moguls in snow skiing). The track is much, much longer with lap times around 6 minutes per lap. The tracks have much longer and rougher straight a-ways that result in much higher top end speeds than what you'll see tonight. Fans are sprawled out all over a 200-300 acre facility.

Supercross is much more fan friendly and is considered a spectacle of the greatest riders on the planet. 

Motocross is the gritty Godfather of the sport and generally preferred to Supercross by us guys that have actually done it.... although I love both. 

Yes, it's the same guys on the same bikes doing both disciplines, but much like in NASCAR, it's the difference between a 2.5 mile super speedway like Daytona, and a 15 turn road course like Sonoma..... Same drivers, same cars, yet completely and totally different. 

Hope this helps, and hope you give it a fair shot in a couple hours! 

 

OK, thanks, but no thanks.  I won't give it a fair shot, because it is motorized racing, which I have no interest in , of any type really.  When they have space racing from here to the Moon and back, I may pay attention.   I don't begrudge you your interest..it is just not mine.    I just prefer the human powered/gravity/animal powered racing better. 

[The Gipper]

40 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Jesus hoorta, did Gipper steal your password and post under your name all day? 😃 You started by rambling about some imaginary beef I supposedly was having with Tour (still scratching my head on that one), then we'll move on to.... 

Did I say that Cleveland needed to have a lakefront JUST LIKE CHICAGO? I said the city of Cleveland should utilize their lakefront LIKE Chicago AND Milwaukee (funny how you never mention the other city in my original post), instead of misusing so much of it like it has for pretty much Cleveland's entire history. There's a reason why people have mentioned how poorly Cleveland utilizes its greatest natural benefit, and that for all intents and purposes Cleveland might as well be located in the middle of Kansas due to how little it does with its lakefront. 

Put a boardwalk on it, expand the park system on it, build neighborhoods near it, hotels, restaurants, hell a real aquarium is a great idea actually (I've been to the one in Newport across from Cincinnati, and from what people have told me it destroys Cleveland's.)  Cleveland can't build apartments fast enough for downtown, I would have to believe people would love to live near the lake, too. The possibilities are endless, and so much of the lakefront is wasted. 

And I was going to make a joke about Dayton being the Youngstown of southwestern Ohio, but I couldn't do that to mjp…. 😉

(No better illustration of the complete lack of utilization of Cleveland's lakefront than this photo.)

 

Again, so much of Cleveland's use of its "lakefront" are the activities that happen on the waterfront in the Flats. None of the other major lakefront cities really have that.  Toronto/Detroit (which really has no lakefront...it is riverfront), Milwaukee.  Maybe Chicago a bit with the Chicago river. 

But also notice, that there is a huge marina just eas of Burke, which you see a bit of in the above photo, and there is a huge one at the mouth of the River, on Whiskey Island.

You also have the attractions on the lake:  RRHOF, Science Center, Stadium,  USS Cod,   William Mather, there is an International Women's Air and Space Museum there.  You also have Edgewater park.  There are quite a number of new condo developments in the Flats. Wendy Park also on Whiskey Island.  Settler's Landing plus Rivergate park.   The Nautica Stage, etc. etc.  And you know, it IS a working major port as well. 

Again, what kind of development on the Lakeshore/Riverfront, do you want that is not already there?

[The Gipper]

One of THE most impressive things about the Cleveland Lake/Riverfront area are the incredible bridges that you see, be it the one you go over, or under, or just see in the distance.     The real nickname of the town should be "Bridge City".   They are so numerous I can't even put a photo of them on here.  Numerous photos would be required. 

 

[The Gipper]

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Again, so much of Cleveland's use of its "lakefront" are the activities that happen on the waterfront in the Flats. None of the other major lakefront cities really have that.  Toronto/Detroit (which really has no lakefront...it is riverfront), Milwaukee.  Maybe Chicago a bit with the Chicago river. 

But also notice, that there is a huge marina just eas of Burke, which you see a bit of in the above photo, and there is a huge one at the mouth of the River, on Whiskey Island.

You also have the attractions on the lake:  RRHOF, Science Center, Stadium,  USS Cod,   William Mather, there is an International Women's Air and Space Museum there.  You also have Edgewater park.  There are quite a number of new condo developments in the Flats. Wendy Park also on Whiskey Island.  Settler's Landing plus Rivergate park.   The Nautica Stage, etc. etc.  And you know, it IS a working major port as well. 

Again, what kind of development on the Lakeshore/Riverfront, do you want that is not already there?

Don't know  Gipper.  Based on that aireal  view, maybe we should  turn Burke into  another Euclid  Beach. Ferris  wheels and roller coasters.  Gosh, the whining  from a  guy who doesn't  even live in the city. 

Regarding  the "working port" Dutch pretty  much missed the economic  significance of  that. I should have given up arguing with him when I pointed out if he thinks First Energy is a waste of valuable lakefront  property, well maybe he needs to tell Chicago to tear down  Soldier  Field- when you could probably  throw a  rock from the east side of that stadium  into Lake Michigan.  

I can't comment on the potential wonderfulness of Milwalkee's lakefront,  because I've  only  been through the  town once- 40 years ago. But if they  want  NFL football,  it's  head  north to  Green Bay,  or south to Chicago.  

[Gorka]

 

3 hours ago, D Bone said:

[Gorka]

7 hours ago, The Gipper said:

 The real nickname of the town should be "Bridge City".   They are so numerous I can't even put a photo of them on here.  Numerous photos would be required. 

 

Already taken.  But I'm anticipating you're gonna come back with "Bridge City" different is from "City of Bridges" laced with a little profanity.

We can't even beat Pittspuke in bridges.

Affectionately known as the city of bridges, Pittsburgh boasts 446 bridges – more than any other city in the world, including Venice, Italy.

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=I2NSXo20Cci4tQWPyK3wAg&q=pittsburgh+city+of+bridges&oq=pittsburgh+city+o&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0l10.2604.21245..24178...1.0..0.109.1602.15j3......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i131.zbhlROeAuyw#spf=1582458196281

 

[TexasAg1969]

7 hours ago, The Gipper said:

One of THE most impressive things about the Cleveland Lake/Riverfront area are the incredible bridges that you see, be it the one you go over, or under, or just see in the distance.     The real nickname of the town should be "Bridge City".   They are so numerous I can't even put a photo of them on here.  Numerous photos would be required.

Sorry. Already taken down near Beaumont/Port Author. There is another unincorporated one in La. where they have a gumbo festival.

[Gorka]

9 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

 

Did I say that Cleveland needed to have a lakefront JUST LIKE CHICAGO? I said the city of Cleveland should utilize their lakefront LIKE Chicago AND Milwaukee

 

Your ability to communicate your thoughts is poor.

Here is what Dutch was trying to say folks:

Did I say that Cleveland needed to have a lakefront JUST LIKE CHICAGO identical to Chicago's? I said the city of Cleveland should utilize their lakefront LIKE in such a way that it benefits Cleveland, as did Chicago and Milwaukee for their respective cities.

[Gorka]

21 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Sorry. Already taken down near Beaumont/Port Author. There is another unincorporated one in La. where they have a gumbo festival.

Who the fuck gives a shit about a place no one has heard of.

[Dutch Oven]

6 minutes ago, Gorka said:

Did I say that Cleveland needed to have a lakefront JUST LIKE CHICAGO identical to Chicago's? I said the city of Cleveland should utilize their lakefront LIKE is such a way that it benefits Cleveland, as did Chicago and Milwaukee for their respective cities.

Those are some solid communication skills you have there Gorka...

"I said the city of Cleveland should utilize their lakefront is such a way..."

Or you could have said "IN such a way..." 😂

Thanks for trying, though. 

[Dutch Oven]

7 hours ago, hoorta said:

Don't know Gipper.  Based on that aireal  view, maybe we should  turn Burke into  another Euclid  Beach. Ferris  wheels and roller coasters.  Gosh, the whining  from a  guy who doesn't  even live in the city. 

Yeah, wanting Cleveland to have a better lakefront, something people have "whined" about for generations, is just crazy.

But the amount of passive aggressiveness you've displayed on this thread is impressive, hoorta. Hats off to you about that! 

[Gorka]

24 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Those are some solid communication skills you have there Gorka...

"I said the city of Cleveland should utilize their lakefront is such a way..."

Or you could have said "IN such a way..." 😂

Thanks for trying, though. 

And this is the thanks I get.

First of all I caught and edited that before you hit the "Submit Reply".

Secondly,  it was a typo, and your inability to grasp a statement over one letter is a reflection on you.

[Dutch Oven]

3 minutes ago, Gorka said:

And this is the thanks I get.

First of all I caught and edited that before you hit the "Submit Reply".

Secondly,  it was a typo, and your inability to grasp a statement over one letter is a reflection on you.

You tried so hard.

Must be frustrating to try to get back at people only to have it blow up in your face. But good on you about the bridges and Pittsburgh. Gipper will be reeling when he reads that, I bet. 😁

[Gorka]

Just now, Dutch Oven said:

You tried so hard.

Must be frustrating. 

Haha, you're the one frustrated my projecting little friend. You know you are!

Whats next up your sleeve? Let me guess..calling me a racist? LOL

 

[Dutch Oven]

1 minute ago, Gorka said:

Haha, you're the one frustrated my projecting little friend. You know you are!

Whats next up your sleeve? Let me guess..calling me a racist? LOL

 

Ooh. now he's trying so hard to bait me into a fight! 😁

You're the one who came onto this thread, only to obviously try to settle scores with those you feel bruised your ego on another thread.

So yeah, I feel confident that lil' Gorka is flailing... 

[Gorka]

5 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

You tried so hard.

Must be frustrating to try to get back at people only to have it blow up in your face. But good on you about the bridges and Pittsburgh. Gipper will be reeling when he reads that, I bet. 😁

That's a good possibility. I wouldn't be surprised at a few F bombs to come my way.

[Dutch Oven]

4 minutes ago, Gorka said:

That's a good possibility. I wouldn't be surprised at a few F bombs to come my way.

And since you are a troll, that's what you are just dying for, isn't it?

BE STRONG GIPPER! FIGHT THE URGE! 😁

[Gorka]

2 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Ooh. now he's trying so hard to bait me into a fight! 😁

 

You're already in a fight.

 

[Ibleedbrown]

51 minutes ago, Gorka said:

Who the fuck gives a shit about a place no one has heard of.

I do. I also appreciated your comment about Pittsburg being the “City of Bridges” as well. I always knew it as the “Steel City”, and a quick google search confirms that but it also confirms it has an alternate nickname too. Interesting stuff. 

I fairly recently learned there was a city in Maine nicknamed the “Queen City.” That of course is Cincy’s nickname too. Bangor, Maine.