Bold idea that would change the landscape of sports in Cleveland

[Gorka]

22 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

And since you are a troll, that's what you are just dying for, isn't it?

BE STRONG GIPPER! FIGHT THE URGE! 😁

I'm sure Gipper can fend for himself without your support so you can take that cheerleader outfit off.

Aren't we supposed to be discussing the issue with the lakefront? Why this incessant urge to start bickering.

Maybe not, but I get that feeling that tearing down both the #1 baseball stadium in the country and First Energy at the same time is fodder for another Cleveland joke.  Not terribly old stadiums, modern and kept up to date are they not?

 

[Gorka]

14 minutes ago, Ibleedbrown said:

I do. I also appreciated your comment about Pittsburg being the “City of Bridges” as well. I always knew it as the “Steel City”, and a quick google search confirms that but it also confirms it has an alternate nickname too. Interesting stuff. 

I fairly recently learned there was a city in Maine nicknamed the “Queen City.” That of course is Cincy’s nickname too. Bangor, Maine. 

 

I didn't know there was a second Queen City.

You're from Cincy right?  A transplant or originally from there?

[Ibleedbrown]

Just now, Gorka said:

I didn't know there was a second Queen City.

You're from Cincy right?  A transplant or originally from there?

Nor did l! Born and raised here. Browns fandom is a deeply seeded family thing. Back in grandpa’s day there were no Bengals and pretty much all of Ohio were Browns fans. Even within my lifetime nearby Dayton was considered “Browns territory” and would show Browns games on their CBS affiliate. Back in the day l had to stand on one leg with foil wrapped rabbit ears against a window to pick up their games, haha.  

[Gorka]

3 minutes ago, Ibleedbrown said:

Nor did l! Born and raised here. Browns fandom is a deeply seeded family thing. Back in grandpa’s day there were no Bengals and pretty much all of Ohio were Browns fans. Even within my lifetime nearby Dayton was considered “Browns territory” and would show Browns games on their CBS affiliate. Back in the day l had to stand on one leg with foil wrapped rabbit ears against a window to pick up their games, haha.  

Shucks. Since you are a true Cincinnatian, I don't get to offend you by letting you know that Cincinnati was once known as "Porkopolis" because of all the pigs that lived there, and still do LOL...actually because it was a pork producing center.

https://www.greatamericancountry.com/places/local-life/porkopolis-cincinnatis-pork-producing-past

 

[Ibleedbrown]

2 minutes ago, Gorka said:

Shucks. Since you are a true Cincinnatian, I don't get to offend you by letting you know that Cincinnati was once known as "Porkopolis" because of all the pigs that lived there, and still do LOL...actually because it was a pork producing center.

https://www.greatamericancountry.com/places/local-life/porkopolis-cincinnatis-pork-producing-past

 

Haha, yeah. I guess that’s Cincy’s secondary nickname. I’ve seen some funky black and white photos of pigs being herded through downtown. A family friend painted one of the flying pigs mentioned in that article. 

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Gorka said:

Who the fuck gives a shit about a place no one has heard of.

 

1 hour ago, Gorka said:

That's a good possibility. I wouldn't be surprised at a few F bombs to come my way.

Oh, the irony of it all. LOL!😂

[The Gipper]

3 hours ago, Gorka said:

Already taken.  But I'm anticipating you're gonna come back with "Bridge City" different is from "City of Bridges" laced with a little profanity.

We can't even beat Pittspuke in bridges.

Affectionately known as the city of bridges, Pittsburgh boasts 446 bridges – more than any other city in the world, including Venice, Italy.

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=I2NSXo20Cci4tQWPyK3wAg&q=pittsburgh+city+of+bridges&oq=pittsburgh+city+o&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0l10.2604.21245..24178...1.0..0.109.1602.15j3......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i131.zbhlROeAuyw#spf=1582458196281

 

I suppose they would have a lot of bridges, three rivers and all.  but, having been there, overall, their bridges are spread out.  Cleveland seems to have bridges on top of bridges.   Cleveland's array of bridges is more impressive, if you have ever been down through there.  Have you? 

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Sorry. Already taken down near Beaumont/Port Author. There is another unincorporated one in La. where they have a gumbo festival.

Port Arthur is a complete shithole.  Scariest city in the US I have ever been.  The day I was there the only thing moving on the streets in the downtown area were cop cars and military vehicles.   Almost NO sign of life, at all.   Too bad, I thought it would be much more vibrant, perhaps a bit like Galveston. But not one bit.

[TexasAg1969]

Just now, The Gipper said:

Port Arthur is a complete shithole.  Scariest city in the US I have ever been.  The day I was there the only thing moving on the streets in the downtown area were cop cars and military vehicles.   Almost NO sign of life, at all.   Too bad, I thought it would be much more vibrant, perhaps a bit like Galveston. But not one bit.

It's always been an oil town. Think Army town and the parallels are similar. Except P.A. produced Janis.

[The Gipper]

4 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

It's always been an oil town. Think Army town and the parallels are similar. Except P.A. produced Janis.

I felt more like I was in like Hungary in the 50s when the Russians put down an attempt to liberalize.   But, I did go by Janis Joplin's house.  A very modest place.  A family lives there, and there is just a plaque out front.   It also produced Van Eidom.   Easy Street drummer. 

[TexasAg1969]

5 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I felt more like I was in like Hungary in the 50s when the Russians put down an attempt to liberalize.   But, I did go by Janis Joplin's house.  A very modest place.  A family lives there, and there is just a plaque out front.   It also produced Van Eidom.   Easy Street drummer. 

When did you go there, before or after hurricane Harvey in 2017? The whole place went under about 6 ft. of water just like most of Beaumont.

[The Gipper]

2 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

When did you go there, before or after hurricane Harvey in 2017? The whole place went under about 6 ft. of water just like most of Beaumont.

December 2018.  What I saw had nothing to do with a hurricane, I don't think. 

[mjp28]

11 hours ago, The Gipper said:

OK, thanks, but no thanks.  I won't give it a fair shot, because it is motorized racing, which I have no interest in , of any type really.  When they have space racing from here to the Moon and back, I may pay attention.   I don't begrudge you your interest..it is just not mine.    I just prefer the human powered/gravity/animal powered racing better. 

I've always loved bikes back in 1970 I bought a new Honda 350 Scrambler used to Hill climb, do dirt track, trail ride all of that fun stuff but I don't see it ever being even a minor sport in the USA.

Now Moto is interesting but not much more to me than monster trucks or tractor pulls.  Some things just don't translate to the mainstream Americans.

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, Gorka said:

Your ability to communicate your thoughts is poor.

Here is what Dutch was trying to say folks:

Did I say that Cleveland needed to have a lakefront JUST LIKE CHICAGO identical to Chicago's? I said the city of Cleveland should utilize their lakefront LIKE in such a way that it benefits Cleveland, as did Chicago and Milwaukee for their respective cities.

 

2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Yeah, wanting Cleveland to have a better lakefront, something people have "whined" about for generations, is just crazy.

But the amount of passive aggressiveness you've displayed on this thread is impressive, hoorta. Hats off to you about that! 

Too  bad I've shot down  your arguement  about the  stadium  being  a waste of the lakefront.  Seems Chicago  doesn't  have a  problem with it.  

People  whining about it  is  background noise to the majority of  the people  living  in Northeast  Ohio. Completely  redoing the  lakefront is a pipe  dream, the way Cleveland developed.  It isn't Chicago, Milwaukee,  or any other  of those lakefront  utopias you dream about. Just dig up $10-20 billion  dollars  and we can make a good start reconfiguring Cleveland's lakefront.  

[mjp28]

11 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

 

Put a boardwalk on it, expand the park system on it, build neighborhoods near it, hotels, restaurants, hell a real aquarium is a great idea actually (I've been to the one in Newport across from Cincinnati, and from what people have told me it destroys Cleveland's.)  Cleveland can't build apartments fast enough for downtown, I would have to believe people would love to live near the lake, too. The possibilities are endless, and so much of the lakefront is wasted. 

And I was going to make a joke about Dayton being the Youngstown of southwestern Ohio, but I couldn't do that to mjp…. 😉

(No better illustration of the complete lack of utilization of Cleveland's lakefront than this photo.)

 

Chicago besides being a great city for eating has had a big headstart on Cleveland well after it burned down in 1871 and was rebuilt.  Cleveland was more of the industrial city and went through the rust belt era without responding in the correct way, too much wasted time and effort and questionable political leadership.

Pittsburgh believe it or not and one of my favorite places to occasionally visit for example recovered much better and with only the three rivers and not connected to the great lakes.  The question with Cleveland now is the perennial one funding and can they pull off additional major renovations to add to what they have done in the past few decades.

.......and Dutch Youngstown was one hell of a place when it was belching out steel smoke and paychecks!   They are doing some major work now in the downsized city with updating the downtown, technology and major improvements to YSU since Tressel took over.   They are actually getting young people to stay and come to the area a key thing for growth.  The other is to attract retirees which is also is happening due to the extremely low cost of living and some retirees moving back North to get away from the "new" south.

The same old topics just in a new era.

 

[The Gipper]

I don't know.  Right now Cleveland seems fine to me.  It has a mix along its lakeshore and riverfront of Parks/museums/marinas/stadium/industrial sites/railroads/port workings/ condos/restaurants...clubs/and as you go east and west, wealthy homes and apartment  along Bratenahl and Lakewood's Gold Coast. 

The biggest complaint I see here is about the Airport.  Read this:

The airport is owned and operated by the city of Cleveland, which also operates Hopkins. Its total operations have dwindled from 100,321 in 2000 to 34,497 in 2018. The airport is frequently used by professional sports team charter flights due to its proximity to FirstEnergy Stadium, Progressive Field, and Rocket Mortgage FieldHouse.

So, I don't know what I would want to do about that. 

But there is something I would advocate for somewhere....that Voinivich park would be a good spot.    A 300 foot statue of this guy:

As it stands, the biggest statue of him is in Metropolis, Illinois, all of 15 feet. 

[MLD Woody]

Not sure where this left off, but we need a stadium with a dome

Yes, we're all manly men that can handle the elements. Football should be played in the elements. Etc etc

Stadiums need to make the city money. A dome gives us access to hosting so many more events in Cleveland. 

Games in domed stadiums are also generally a better experience. With attendance to live sporting events dropping across the board you want to attract people to there. 

 

Getting Cleveland a domed football stadium is a fantastic idea and I'd vote for that in a second

[Dutch Oven]

2 hours ago, hoorta said:

 

Too  bad I've shot down  your arguement  about the  stadium  being  a waste of the lakefront.  

If "shooting down my argument" is completely missing the point, changing what I've said, ignoring other parts that I said, making up things I said, and generally acting like a five year old who isn't getting his way, then yes hoorta, you sure showed me. 😂

Now, if I need to know what type of wine to pair with a specific cheese, I'll be sure to ask the manly man who thinks domes are for wimps. 

 

[Dutch Oven]

3 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

 

Oh, the irony of it all. LOL!😂

I think my favorite part of Gorka's entrance on to this thread was his three or four attempts to troll in a row - attempting to draw someone/anyone into a fight - only to have our moderator ignore it completely. Interesting. 😂  

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

If "shooting down my argument" is completely missing the point, changing what I've said, ignoring other parts that I said, making up things I said, and generally acting like a five year old who isn't getting his way, then yes hoorta, you sure showed me. 😂

Now, if I need to know what type of wine to pair with a specific cheese, I'll be sure to ask the manly man who thinks domes are for wimps. 

 

Pound salt.You're the one that doesn't get it. Just keep changing the argument. I understand your pie in the sky bull crap perfectly well. Here's your dose of reality. Cleveland doesn't have anywhere near the kind of money it would take to transform the lakefront. Unless guys like Gilbert and Haslam want to fork over billions of their own money- a  new stadium isn't happening.

 

58 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I think my favorite part of Gorka's entrance on to this thread was his three or four attempts to troll in a row - attempting to draw someone/anyone into a fight - only to have our moderator ignore it completely. Interesting. 😂  

 Oh, I got it all right- if you weren't trying to simultaneously troll me with your impossible dream- you'd both be gone now.  

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

Not sure where this left off, but we need a stadium with a dome

Yes, we're all manly men that can handle the elements. Football should be played in the elements. Etc etc

Stadiums need to make the city money. A dome gives us access to hosting so many more events in Cleveland. 

Games in domed stadiums are also generally a better experience. With attendance to live sporting events dropping across the board you want to attract people to there. 

 

Getting Cleveland a domed football stadium is a fantastic idea and I'd vote for that in a second

Except Cleveland any Cuyahoga County are tapped out as far as spending that sort of money on a stadium Woody.  

[ballpeen]

On 2/22/2020 at 12:37 PM, hoorta said:

I'll  add my two cents about  First Energy  here. 

First about  putting a  dome on it. Can't  and won't  happen. Structurally  wasn't  built for one. Putting a  bubble  over it has already  been  suggested.  Retrofitting  it with the requisite HVAC would be a  nightmare.  If you want a  dome, more  efficient to start from  scratch,  and the going  rate seems to be  around  $2 billion to go that route. 

As to there being "nothing wrong" with it, I'll  disagree.  My Bucket List is to see the Browns  play in every  NFL venue,  and I'm  about 1\2 way there. When the  stadium was built,  the goal was to replicate the "feel" of the old place as closely as possible.  Bad idea. The concourse behind the  stands is woefully cramped (sardine  city) compared to  almost all of the other stadiums.  Paul Brown in Cincinnati has at least triple if not four times  the space. I was really  hoping  when Jimmy  poured  millions into the  stadium  renovation,  he'd  address  the shortcomings,  but it didn't  happen. BTW, when planning for the stadium  originally  came out, the fan opinion was overwhelming "no dome". 

FWIW,  by my count,  there's 15 teams with the potential of a cold weather  game, and three domes. Tells me all I need to know.  Apparently there's a lot of  wimps afraid of  getting  their  toes cold. 

I think "if" most said no dome is because most people go on the cheap and don't think ahead.  The city of Cleveland has already run the Browns out of town once because they were cheap.

 

Build the Dome.  All new stadiums get a superbowl.  That would pump hundreds of millions in to the local economy.  It isn't about being a wimp.  It about not being a dumbass.

 

Someone mentioned the Wolstein center....maybe we could build the Browns new stadium there.  Maybe not.  It would depends on the property footprint.  Football stadiums need a larger footprint.  You would also have to consider near by parking.  If you get 30,000 to a baseball game, you might need parking for 17,000 cars or possibly less.  For a football game with 65,000, you might need parking for 30,000 cars.

[hoorta]

4 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Chicago besides being a great city for eating has had a big headstart on Cleveland well after it burned down in 1871 and was rebuilt.  Cleveland was more of the industrial city and went through the rust belt era without responding in the correct way, too much wasted time and effort and questionable political leadership.

Pittsburgh believe it or not and one of my favorite places to occasionally visit for example recovered much better and with only the three rivers and not connected to the great lakes.  The question with Cleveland now is the perennial one funding and can they pull off additional major renovations to add to what they have done in the past few decades.

.......and Dutch Youngstown was one hell of a place when it was belching out steel smoke and paychecks!   They are doing some major work now in the downsized city with updating the downtown, technology and major improvements to YSU since Tressel took over.   They are actually getting young people to stay and come to the area a key thing for growth.  The other is to attract retirees which is also is happening due to the extremely low cost of living and some retirees moving back North to get away from the "new" south.

The same old topics just in a new era.

 

Amen to the bold guy. Before I headed to Dayton to finish my degree, I worked for a couple years at Republic Steel and Reilly Chemical in the Flats. Pre EPA, it's no wonder to me the River caught on fire. You could see streams of flammable chemicals heading in the general direction of the Cuyahoga. Republics BOF (basic oxygen furnace) used to shoot a mushroom cloud of rust a couple hundred feet in the air when they fired it up. 

It's the same thing down Dayton way mjp. The city and area was in bad shape after GM and NCR pulled up shop and left. Much to my amazement, I thought for sure it would flop-  putting the Class A Dayton Dragons baseball team downtown catalyzed a renaissance. There's a lot going on- no shortage of academic excellence with both Dayton and Wright State in the area, and Miami just down the road. Don't forget the #1 Air Force Base and research center (Wright-Patterson) in the country is here too. 

Yeah I could have moved back to Cleveland after I graduated from UD- but the area has a lot going for it. For a cyclist like me, it's bicycle nirvana. There's over 300 miles of paved trails (with more coming) starting 1\2 mile from my house. I can ride from here to either Cincinnati or Columbus and essentially never get on a road with traffic on it. Cycling Capital of Mid America. It's not an accident The Great American Bike Trail (Washington DC to Washington State) will go through Dayton. A lot of the leg going through Ohio is already completed. 

Dayton's big enough to have a lot (make that almost all) of the stuff you'd find in a major city, but small enough that getting around is isn't a major hassle. When I was working, I could get from my home at the Dayton city limits to my job in Downtown Dayton in under 10 minutes. Try doing something like that in Chicago- or even Cleveland.     

Finally, regarding Cleveland's lakefront in general, and the stadium in particular. I already said- there's 15 cities I would consider having the potential to have a cold (20s or lower) NFL game. There's only three cities with domes- and I'll give the Viking a a pass on that one, with the potential of brutal weather December on. So sorry Woody- you're just going to have to suck it up like the other 12 NFL cities without domes do.  Yeah, you could do a retractable Dome like Lucas Oil- but the ambiance there is damn identical to having a dome that's fixed. Further meditating on things- if this will placate Dutch a little bit- it might be possible to do something like New England has with Patriot Place, but Kraft had the advantage of Foxboro being out in the middle of nowhere. Cleveland? You'd at a minimum have to relocate train and rapid lines and a couple streets.  

[hoorta]

29 minutes ago, ballpeen said:

I think "if" most said no dome is because most people go on the cheap and don't think ahead.  The city of Cleveland has already run the Browns out of town once because they were cheap.

Build the Dome.  All new stadiums get a superbowl.  That would pump hundreds of millions in to the local economy.  It isn't about being a wimp.  It about not being a dumbass.

Someone mentioned the Wolstein center....maybe we could build the Browns new stadium there.  Maybe not.  It would depends on the property footprint.  Football stadiums need a larger footprint.  You would also have to consider near by parking.  If you get 30,000 to a baseball game, you might need parking for 17,000 cars or possibly less.  For a football game with 65,000, you might need parking for 30,000 cars.

Totally agree we went on the cheap when First Energy was built. I probably wouldn't have any objections to a dome. But every time I bring up the question how are we going to dig up the $2 billion to pay for it? There's crickets chirping..     Sort of don't agree if you don't have a domed NFL stadium you're not cool. Just start winning and the talk about a dome will vanish into the breeze- Like in Kansas City....  

EDIT & PS- You think those folks in New England are crying Gillette will never have the opportunity to host a Super Bowl?  Ditto Green Bay. How about put a dome over Lambeau while we're at it? Based on the configuration, I'd bet it would be a hell of a lot easier to do than put a dome over First Energy.  Just something to think about.....   

[ballpeen]

30 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Totally agree we went on the cheap when First Energy was built. I probably wouldn't have any objections to a dome. But every time I bring up the question how are we going to dig up the $2 billion to pay for it? There's crickets chirping..     

No chirping here.  You have to raise taxes.  It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.  That is why I would be more in favor of not doing anything with the Jake.  Maybe a few upgrades or something like that.  It is still useful.  We wouldn't need 2 domed stadiums, and unlike football which is enjoyable 
inside" baseball in domes sucks. So if the Wolstein property can handle the stadium and parking surge, that would be where to build the new stadium.

 

So, how to pay?

 

First, I would bump the county room tax a few bucks a night on hotel stays.  Make a lot of out of towners help pay for the thing.

Then, gas tax is always a money maker.  A few cents there.

The property on the lakefront that is going to be developed.  The county could designate it a way that all development pays a special 20 year tax for the stadium fund.  After all, the stadium moving is what opened things up for the developers and business operations that will be flocking there.

 

Get all counties who border on Cuyahoga pay something.  Boost room taxes and or gasoline tax.  If they don't agree,  boost parking rates on all parking lots by $5 a day.  The county gives all county residents a special decal for their vehicle giving them a $5 a day discount on parking in county parking lots.  Neighboring counties are crazy if they don't benefit. from the Browns.  I spend about half my nights up there in Medina county.  Usually a night or two in Vermilion...not sure of that county...Vermilion I guess.

 

There is probably some enhancement super fund run by the state.  Boost some state wide tax by a penny and create millions more.

Lot's of people trek across Ohio on the turnpike.  Increase big rig fees by $8 across the state from Pennsylvania to Indiana.  Get some Steelers and Colts fans chipping in.

 

Oh,, then all the events at the new facility.  Put a tax on everything but football.  Got to save myself a buck or two somewhere...lol

 

We could probably come up with a special Dayton area tax...$2 a gallon or something like that.;)

[Gorka]

6 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:

Haha, yeah. I guess that’s Cincy’s secondary nickname. I’ve seen some funky black and white photos of pigs being herded through downtown. A family friend painted one of the flying pigs mentioned in that article. 

 I betcha to this day you'll still find herds of pigs in downtown Cincy, mainly on Sundays, when the Bengals play the Steelers. That's right, them "Squealer" fans.

[hoorta]

20 minutes ago, ballpeen said:

No chirping here.  You have to raise taxes.  It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.  That is why I would be more in favor of not doing anything with the Jake.  Maybe a few upgrades or something like that.  It is still useful.  We wouldn't need 2 domed stadiums, and unlike football which is enjoyable 
inside" baseball in domes sucks. So if the Wolstein property can handle the stadium and parking surge, that would be where to build the new stadium.

So, how to pay?

First, I would bump the county room tax a few bucks a night on hotel stays.  Make a lot of out of towners help pay for the thing.

Then, gas tax is always a money maker.  A few cents there.

The property on the lakefront that is going to be developed.  The county could designate it a way that all development pays a special 20 year tax for the stadium fund.  After all, the stadium moving is what opened things up for the developers and business operations that will be flocking there.

Get all counties who border on Cuyahoga pay something.  Boost room taxes and or gasoline tax.  If they don't agree,  boost parking rates on all parking lots by $5 a day.  The county gives all county residents a special decal for their vehicle giving them a $5 a day discount on parking in county parking lots.  Neighboring counties are crazy if they don't benefit. from the Browns.  I spend about half my nights up there in Medina county.  Usually a night or two in Vermilion...not sure of that county...Vermilion I guess.

There is probably some enhancement super fund run by the state.  Boost some state wide tax by a penny and create millions more.

Lot's of people trek across Ohio on the turnpike.  Increase big rig fees by $8 across the state from Pennsylvania to Indiana.  Get some Steelers and Colts fans chipping in.

On, then all the events at the new facility.  Put a tax on everything but football.  Got to save myself a buck or two somewhere...lol

We could probably come up with a special Dayton area tax...$2 a gallon or something like that.;)

Hmmm, San Diego said nope to more taxes, but I'll grant you Cleveland is a totally different situation.  Now in regard to an NFL playing extortion with a city- get a load of this one 'Peen... Sort of gives you an idea why some areas are saying NO WAY in hell to new stadium extortion.... 

https://www.mercatus.org/bridge/commentary/happy-10th-birthday-most-subsidized-nfl-stadium-america

You'd have to do something on the state level, and Ohio isn't Nevada. Increase the gas tax? Dewine had to fight tooth and nail to get the state legislature (and then they only gave him 60% of what he was asking for) to fund badly need road improvements. A proposal increasing the state gas tax one measly cent to fund a new stadium in Cleveland would be DOA in Columbus. 

BTW, mucking around- there's also an additional 1% restaurant food tax in the counties surrounding Marion (Indy) to help pay for Lucas Oil. Lotsa luck getting Stark, Lake, Geauga, Medina, and Lorain to sign off on something like that.....  

[hoorta]

3 minutes ago, Gorka said:

 I betcha to this day you'll still find herds of pigs in downtown Cincy, mainly on Sundays, when the Bengals play the Steelers. That's right, them "Squealer" fans.

Cincitucky does sort of embrace the Porkopolis thing. There's the big Flying Pig Marathon every year....  

[Flugel]

On 2/22/2020 at 1:12 PM, Dutch Oven said:

Interesting... Like I've said before, I prefer cold weather football outdoors. 

But I also understand that the city of Cleveland is possibly missing out on a lot of events - events that for example cold weather cities like Indianapolis or Minneapolis get - because they don't have a retractable dome football stadium. 

Plus, it's about time Cleveland does something with their lakefront. 

I prefer old school football at all times too! 

I like where you are trying to go in this thread about the Lakefront in between all the bullshit you're getting.   I grew up (as debatable as that is) in Western, NY. And Buffalo is as close as it gets to the type of City Cleveland is.  They had the steel mills and they have a Lakefront.  Since the year 2000, they have been upgrading the lakefront to get people to want to go there.  People really like going there today; because of the reasons (plural) they added to do so. 

Once upon a time, going to Cleveland and partying in the flats was a blast - especially for Browns fans visiting from out of town.  Since that changed, I see some untapped opportunity on the lakefront.

Back to the retractable roof idea, if we had one during the Playoff Game Brian Sipe threw an INT vrs the Raiders - it would have changed everything about the way this franchise is perceived since the Superbowls started.  Don Cockroft was missing 30 yard FGs into the wind in pre-game warm-ups to get an idea of how impactful the weather conditions were on that outcome. Today's game is even more dependent on the passing game than it was when we had an NFL MVP at QB.  All of the rules dictating this have opened me up to the unthinkable idea of football under a roof in December and January might be the way to go.  And when you're never winning at least half your games - good luck getting new millennials and females excited about getting off the couch for below zero wind chills....

 

[ballpeen]

14 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Hmmm, San Diego said nope to more taxes, but I'll grant you Cleveland is a totally different situation.  Now in regard to an NFL playing extortion with a city- get a load of this one 'Peen... Sort of gives you an idea why some areas are saying NO WAY in hell to new stadium extortion.... 

https://www.mercatus.org/bridge/commentary/happy-10th-birthday-most-subsidized-nfl-stadium-america

You'd have to do something on the state level, and Ohio isn't Nevada. Increase the gas tax? Dewine had to fight tooth and nail to get the state legislature (and then they only gave him 60% of what he was asking for) to fund badly need road improvements. A proposal increasing the state gas tax one measly cent to fund a new stadium in Cleveland would be DOA in Columbus. 

BTW, mucking around- there's also an additional 1% restaurant food tax in the counties surrounding Marion (Indy) to help pay for Lucas Oil. Lotsa luck getting Stark, Lake, Geauga, Medina, and Lorain to sign off on something like that.....  

I know it a tough sell on getting neighboring counties to buy in, that is why I propose the parking tax.  Lot's of those people work in Cuyahoga country.

 

If parking seems unfeasible,  non Cuyahoga country residents working in Cuyahoga pay a higher payroll tax.  That might even be better.  Tax them an additional 3%.  They don't vote for you.  Just like I don't vote for them when they hit me with an additional $3 a night room tax.