I don't go to the NFL for my morals

[Axe]

 

😄

[Gorka]

On 3/16/2022 at 11:47 AM, laiccm said:

Just stop with the holier than thou garbage with Watson. If he cleared by a court of law......then that's it. We as Cleveland fans have rooted for a good number of players in all sports who were by reputation and sometimes court...bad people (Jim Brown, Albert Bell, Kareem Hunt, Josh Gordon.....etc).  If you go to The NFL for your morals then grow up.....from the Patriots owner, Indy owner, Tyrek Hill......cheating, doping, rapes, racial disparities, vehicular homicides....Been in the NFL for decades. .I wanna win at all costs. That's professional sports....that's just reality. I ain't boycotting nothing...

Right on. Except that doesn't work for kids that look up to sports figures as heroes and role models.  We don't tell them its about winning at all costs.

Sounds like you lost some sleep last night.

[Gorka]

On 3/16/2022 at 5:21 PM, laiccm said:

More baggage....with ALOT more talent. Will he be suspended? Maybe....but we only have a few seasons of the top time of players like Gareett, Chubb....Hunt. etc...

You want Baker versus Holmes, Herbert, Burrows, Allen, Jackson....etc?? The AFC is nuts...new day.

Look at what the last 2 Superbowl winners do.

Fans just need to grow up and stop being hypocrites

Your frequent use of the word "hypocrite" is improper.  What you are babbling about is what you believe to be double standards.

If you bash Big Ben for his sexcapades but give Watson a pass, you are applying a double standard.

If you chastise Watson for molesting women while being a molester of women yourself, you are being a hypocrite.

 

[laiccm]

3 hours ago, Gorka said:

Your frequent use of the word "hypocrite" is improper.  What you are babbling about is what you believe to be double standards.

If you bash Big Ben for his sexcapades but give Watson a pass, you are applying a double standard.

If you chastise Watson for molesting women while being a molester of women yourself, you are being a hypocrite.

 

And if you're on a sports board but posting regarding correct terminology then giving examples you might be a bored bitch...

Am I using "bored bitch" correctly? Should I use it in a  sentence for you?

[laiccm]

3 hours ago, Gorka said:

Right on. Except that doesn't work for kids that look up to sports figures as heroes and role models.  We don't tell them its about winning at all costs.

Sounds like you lost some sleep last night.

Then people need parent correctly...Thats not on a athlete. ..We got Presidents and Supreme Court justices accused of sexual assaults. Aren't those the people we are supposed to have our kids look up to?

Not at all.....im happy af. Lol

[laiccm]

5 hours ago, Axe said:

 

😄

Problem is he is probably better than Baker too... 😆🤣

[FairHooker11]

alot of hype

been there before and it didnt look too good.

but hey  - glad OP is happy AF

[hish747]

On 3/16/2022 at 11:47 AM, laiccm said:

If you go to The NFL for your morals then grow up.....

That's not how morals work. You don't don't get to pick and choose where they come from. You get them from everything and everyone you experience. 

[hish747]

On 3/20/2022 at 2:21 AM, Gorka said:

Your frequent use of the word "hypocrite" is improper.  What you are babbling about is what you believe to be double standards.

If you bash Big Ben for his sexcapades but give Watson a pass, you are applying a double standard.

If you chastise Watson for molesting women while being a molester of women yourself, you are being a hypocrite.

 

What Ben did was very different from what Watson did. Ben actually followed a woman into the bathroom, stationed someone outside the door and raped her in the bathroom. Multiple witnesses backed the woman's claim.

Watson may or may not have paid for a happy ending by massage providers who were so shocked that they had repeat appointments.

[laiccm]

1 minute ago, hish747 said:

What Ben did was very different from what Watson did. Ben actually followed a woman into the bathroom, stationed someone outside the door and raped her in the bathroom.

Watson may or may not have paid for a happy ending by massage providers who were so shocked that they had repeat appointments.

 

7 minutes ago, hish747 said:

That's not how morals work. You don't don't get to pick and choose where they come from. You get them from everything and everyone you experience. 

Uhm....for you maybe. For how I was raised I was told right and wrong from my parents and to only look at them and my faith for my morals

[hish747]

Just now, laiccm said:

 

Uhm....for you maybe. For how I was raised I was told right and wrong from my parents and to only look at them and my faith for my morals

Not for me, for the human brain. You are effected by everything you see. In fact, that's why you posted this topic.

To try to reconcile the dissonance between the Browns signing a star QB and your personal problem with what the QB is alleged to have done. 

It's basically denial, but I would suggest that there is a better way than denial. Dig deeper into the facts.

[laiccm]

1 minute ago, hish747 said:

Not for me, for the human brain. You are effected by everything you see. In fact, that's why you posted this topic.

To try to reconcile the dissonance between the Browns signing a star QB and your personal problem with what the QB is alleged to have done. 

It's basically denial, but I would suggest that there is a better way than denial. Dig deeper into the facts.

Yes...for the human brain. Some people are easier to mislead than others and that's why you have a Jonestown, cults, drug addicts ...etc. I was taught a long time ago to not put people, places and things on a pedestal with such ease. Especially a celebrity, athlete and or politician. Topic is posted because for me...it's a matter of recognizing how things are in reality and double standards, hypocrisy....

Facts? Facts are Grand jury can indict a ham sandwich and they didn't indict Watson on a single count. He didn't even get arrested, no mugshot... Need Deeper? Some of the women who performed the massage, went back and performed it multiple times without alerting any supervisor. None of the women said  there was  physical force was used by Watson and the defense attorney didn't even charge him with soliciting (But the Pats owner was).........Besides,  .If 70 million people can give the nuclear football to someone with 25 alleged sexual assaults...How can I have too much of an issue with someone at quarterback with 22 of them? Why go to the NFL for morals when you can't even go to the highest office in the land? So.....yeah

[hish747]

29 minutes ago, laiccm said:

Yes...for the human brain. Some people are easier to mislead than others and that's why you have a Jonestown, cults, drug addicts ...etc. I was taught a long time ago to not put people, places and things on a pedestal with such ease. Especially a celebrity, athlete and or politician. Topic is posted because for me...it's a matter of recognizing how things are in reality and double standards, hypocrisy....

 Facts? Facts are Grand jury can indict a ham sandwich and they didn't indict Watson on a single count. He didn't even get arrested, no mugshot... Need Deeper? Some of the women who performed the massage, went back and performed it multiple times without alerting any supervisor. None of the women said  there was  physical force was used by Watson and the defense attorney didn't even charge him with soliciting (But the Pats owner was).........Besides,  .If 70 million people can give the nuclear football to someone with 25 alleged sexual assaults...How can I have too much of an issue with someone at quarterback with 22 of them? Why go to the NFL for morals when you can't even go to the highest office in the land? So.....yeah

I don't think you quite understood my post. My point is that, as a Browns fan, you can deal with what Watson is alleged to have done in one of two ways:

1. Denial approach. :I don't get my morals from the NFL anyway so it doesn't matter what he may have done."

2. Information approach. "I read what he supposedly did and it really isn't that troubling."

It seems you may be adopting the better approach (#2). So, we are in agreement.

[laiccm]

You should look up the definition of "denial."

Denial would be I don't believe he did anything wrong.

I'm the no.3 approach. It's called REALITY. In REALITY  people do horrible sh@$ and get away with it. Since I'm not a super hero, cop or God then it's not my lane.

 

GO BROWNS

[hish747]

On 3/21/2022 at 2:52 PM, laiccm said:

You should look up the definition of "denial."

Denial would be I don't believe he did anything wrong.

I'm the no.3 approach. It's called REALITY. In REALITY  people do horrible sh@$ and get away with it. Since I'm not a super hero, cop or God then it's not my lane.

 

GO BROWNS

The denial I was referring to relates to your thinking that a situation like Watson coming to the Browns doesn't implicate your morals. But it does. It offends your morals. What I'm suggesting is if you analyze the situation objectively, you will likely come to the conclusion that Watson is being framed in a massive money grab. Therefore, you would not have any moral conflict with him coming to the Browns. Just accepting the allegations at face value is giving up too easy. Don't even get me started on cops...

[laiccm]

2 minutes ago, hish747 said:

The denial I was referring to relates to your thinking that a situation like Watson coming to the Browns doesn't implicate your morals. But it does. It offends your morals. What I'm suggesting is if you analyze the situation objectively, you will likely come to the conclusion that Watson is being framed in a massive money grab. Therefore, you would not have any moral conflict with him coming to the Browns. Just accepting the allegations at face value is giving up too easy. Don't even get me started on cops...

Or does it implicate a lack of hypocrisy. I didn't leave my country when we gave the nuclear football to a man with 25 alleged sexual assaults, so why would I leave my team over a a quarterback with 22 of them?

Could it be a massive money grab? Certainly....the grand jury can indict a ham sandwich and they didn't indict him on even 1 charge. None of the women complained to a supervisor and most did it multiple times. The court could've done 1 and sent the other 21 packing, the 22 accusations came almost all at once when he requested a trade, the attorney lives on the Texan's owner street, family are friends and the run in the same political circles.  What's also very possible is Watson is a complete perv and deserves prison.....it's just out of my hands and way above my paygrade.

[hish747]

3 hours ago, laiccm said:

Or does it implicate a lack of hypocrisy. I didn't leave my country when we gave the nuclear football to a man with 25 alleged sexual assaults, so why would I leave my team over a a quarterback with 22 of them?

Could it be a massive money grab? Certainly....the grand jury can indict a ham sandwich and they didn't indict him on even 1 charge. None of the women complained to a supervisor and most did it multiple times. The court could've done 1 and sent the other 21 packing, the 22 accusations came almost all at once when he requested a trade, the attorney lives on the Texan's owner street, family are friends and the run in the same political circles.  What's also very possible is Watson is a complete perv and deserves prison.....it's just out of my hands and way above my paygrade.

I don't think a lack of hypocrisy; but a lack of analysis and scrutiny. Anything is "possible" but taking the time to think and research turns random "possibilities" into specific "probabilities." It's  your prerogative not to be interested in that.

I do like your comment about a grand jury indicting a ham sandwich. Spot on. Many people don't fully appreciate how easy it is for a grand jury to charge. They think it's the same beyond a reasonable doubt standard used at criminal trial. It's actually the same as the "more likely than not" civil standard. But it's actually even easier than the civil standard. In a grand jury proceeding, the prosecutor presents their strongest case, completely unopposed by a defense attorney to rebut the claims. The grand jury never heard of the opposing witnesses who claim that many of these women said they were going to frame Watson. Or the many who said he was a model citizen. Or the facts about the relationship between McNair and Buzbee. Or the fact that the civil lawsuits were filed one day before the start of free agency. So, if you can't convince a grand jury under the most favorable circumstances, I doubt you can convince a civil jury that will hear both sides of the story.

[Unsympathetic]

On 3/24/2022 at 10:23 AM, laiccm said:

What's also very possible is Watson is a complete perv and deserves prison

And your proof of this is.... what, exactly?  The same proof that achieved zero indictments?

Or your refusal to change the snap judgement you made 7 seconds after you heard the lawsuits were filed because you'd rather ruin someone else's life for funsies than admit you're occasionally 100% wrong?  Because if you admit you're wrong then you'd need to suck up your pride and change your mind - and that's a fate worse than death?

 

It's neither "very" possible" nor "mildly" possible nor "sort of kind of 1/24th" possible.

 

You recognize that grand juries indict a ham sandwich but refuse to realize that.... there wasn't ham-sandwich-level evidence, whatever that means? 

They've got nothing, nada, zero, zilch..

[laiccm]

7 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

And your proof of this is.... what, exactly?  The same proof that achieved zero indictments?

Or your deliberate refusal to change the snap judgement you made 7 seconds after you heard the lawsuits were filed because you'd rather ruin someone else's life than admit you're occasionally 100% wrong?  Because if you admit you're wrong then you'd need to suck up your pride and change your mind - and that's a fate worse than death?

 

It's neither "very" possible" nor "mildly" possible nor "sort of kind of 1/24th" possible.

 

You recognize that grand juries indict a ham sandwich but refuse to realize that.... there wasn't ham-sandwich-level evidence, whatever that means?

Sheesh....reread the ENTIRE reply I typed 

[Unsympathetic]

35 minutes ago, laiccm said:

Sheesh....reread the ENTIRE reply I typed 

I did.

You're being so open-minded that your brains have fallen out. 

The question isn't What Is Possible -- it's always possible that aliens are among us -- the question is how PROBABLE things are.  And we learn that probability from..  the evidence.

[laiccm]

8 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

I did.

You're being so open-minded that your brains have fallen out. 

The question isn't What Is Possible -- it's always possible that aliens are among us -- the question is how PROBABLE things are.  And we learn that probability from..  the evidence.

You're reading into it what you want to read into it for argument sake. 

I worked for a criminal defense attorney for 7 years out of law school.

Deal with definites.

I wasn't there...nor were you. Bottomline.

Just because you don't go to jail don't mean you didn't do it.

Just because you go to jail don't mean you did do it.

Those are statements of fact proven time and time again by DNA evidence and the Freedom project. 

You're welcome 

[Flugel]

On 3/24/2022 at 10:23 AM, laiccm said:

Or does it implicate a lack of hypocrisy. I didn't leave my country when we gave the nuclear football to a man with 25 alleged sexual assaults, so why would I leave my team over a a quarterback with 22 of them?

Could it be a massive money grab? Certainly....the grand jury can indict a ham sandwich and they didn't indict him on even 1 charge. None of the women complained to a supervisor and most did it multiple times. The court could've done 1 and sent the other 21 packing, the 22 accusations came almost all at once when he requested a trade, the attorney lives on the Texan's owner street, family are friends and the run in the same political circles...

How many more posts by you until you have finally convinced yourself?   

[laiccm]

3 minutes ago, Flugel said:

How many more posts by you until you have finally convinced yourself?   

This was 2 weeks ago.........feel free to not reply

[Westside Steve]

39 minutes ago, Flugel said:

How many more posts by you until you have finally convinced yourself?   

Only one question came close to the one I would have asked but did anyone notice that it was sidestepped? The very last one. So Kevin, Andrew, your research has led you to the conclusion that all 22 women were lying? The last question came close but not nearly specific enough in my opinion. I'm guessing this video has been posted before.

And as happens so often the hyperbolic headline.

 

WSS

[Tour2ma]

Also.... none of us follow the Browns for our morale... so there's that.

[laiccm]

15 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Also.... none of us follow the Browns for our morale... so there's that.

Unfortunately some do.....check this board

[Orion]

People don't understand that when you're in the public eye, you are held to a higher standard...because you become a role model.  Like it or not.  The young kids look up to them.  They are being molded by what they see and experience.  Now, guys can avoid this 'higher standard' thing.  They can instead go work at Dunkin Donuts.  

[laiccm]

20 minutes ago, Orion said:

People don't understand that when you're in the public eye, you are held to a higher standard...because you become a role model.  Like it or not.  The young kids look up to them.  They are being molded by what they see and experience.  Now, guys can avoid this 'higher standard' thing.  They can instead go work at Dunkin Donuts.  

Nope....thats on who raises you.  Not 1 damn time growing up did I think I could do what a celebrity or a professional athlete could do. My parents and my faith......if your kid is emulating a famous person and u don't check them...thats on you. It's not on anyone else,let alone a famous athlete to raise your sex trophy.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

36 minutes ago, Orion said:

People don't understand that when you're in the public eye, you are held to a higher standard...because you become a role model.  Like it or not.  The young kids look up to them.  They are being molded by what they see and experience.  Now, guys can avoid this 'higher standard' thing.  They can instead go work at Dunkin Donuts.  

Who the hell looks up to an NFL player?

[hish747]

28 minutes ago, Orion said:

People don't understand that when you're in the public eye, you are held to a higher standard...because you become a role model.  Like it or not.  The young kids look up to them.  They are being molded by what they see and experience.  Now, guys can avoid this 'higher standard' thing.  They can instead go work at Dunkin Donuts.  

Exactly. But it's not just kids who are impacted by what they experience and how they process it. We all have to resolve the tensions with us. But many don't understand this and even worse, insist on denying what they don't understand.