Baker Mayfield Gets his Coach Fired!!!

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

2 hours ago, hoorta said:

Sorry Tom, I thought it appropriate to change the name of the title.     

 

Laughing my ass off. I saw that and was WTF? LMAO

 

[Dutch Oven]

We didn't even get into November and this topic has zero heat to it anymore. 

Thank dog. 

[hoorta]

16 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

We didn't even get into November and this topic has zero heat to it anymore. 

Thank dog. 

Well, we won't be hearing much about Baker for the next several weeks with his high ankle sprain. I don't wish an injury on anyone in the NFL. 

BUT the third string QB who replaced him went 5 for 6 passing in garbage time. It won't surprise me much if this is the last we'll see of Mr. Mayfield this season.  

[mjp28]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

Well, we won't be hearing much about Baker for the next several weeks with his high ankle sprain. I don't wish an injury on anyone in the NFL. 

BUT the third string QB who replaced him went 5 for 6 passing in garbage time. It won't surprise me much if this is the last we'll see of Mr. Mayfield this season.  

OMG is this the begining of the BRM swan song on his NFL playing career.  He's well off being a former #1 pick in the draft so what's left ?

High ankle sprain,  comes back rusty ?  Carolina’s season goes down the drain.  BRM is cut or traded ?  BRM is picked up as some experienced back up ?

As I said before the Cleveland fans   "may have seen the best of Baker Mayfield and his up and down play".    It's almost funny if it didn't lead to such pain in two NFL teams and their fans.

I could see the Mayfield's  finding property down South and then  planning their next move.   Sad, a splash then thud in Cleveland. 

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

On 10/10/2022 at 1:09 PM, hoorta said:

Browns miss the playoffs? Certainly possible...  But if the Browns can tread water at 3-3 until the arrival of the Massage Messiah against Houston... Anything's possible this year.  Just look at the box scores from Sunday... You could have won a bunch of coin betting the trifecta G-Men beating the Packers, Texans beating the Jags, and the Jets whomping the Dolphins.    

Too early to count us out. My.bullet points.

*Nobody rolled us, we beat ourselves 3 x

*We are only 1 game out

*Our division rivals are all beatable.

*Brissett has been workable and we are close. Like him or not, Watson surely will give us enough boost that we will be tougher to beat.

I hate the continued lack of discipline, but as bad as we are, teams have needed luck to beat us.

Go Browns

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

On 10/10/2022 at 1:11 PM, hoorta said:

Sorry Tom, I thought it appropriate to change the name of the title.     

 

AGAIN, lmao. Funny shit.

[Orion]

11 hours ago, hoorta said:

It won't surprise me much if this is the last we'll see of Mr. Mayfield this season. 

...or beyond as a Panther.   I said the same thing to Mrs. Wife before leaving for rehearsal.  And with a new coach coming in, what are the odds that Mayfield is going to be 'his guy' at QB when the '23 draft rolls around?  

[Flugel]

On 10/10/2022 at 6:51 PM, Dutch Oven said:

We didn't even get into November and this topic has zero heat to it anymore. 

Thank dog. 

Another example of when I start thinking I know QB prospects, it really means I need a life guard.  Even worse, I was actually thinking some semblance of a guy that could break a rookie QB record with 27 TD passes (despite only 13 starts) on a team coming off 0-16 football just needed a new situation.

So where does that leave me today?  Defending Jacoby Brissett and pulling alibis outta my ass for him.  

[tiamat63]

In Baker's defense, he didn't get Matt Rhule fired. 

The front office hasn't appropriately addressed the oline since Norwell left in free agency. Then you bring in a QB who needs that extra protection time and this is the end result of their current shitty recipe. 

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

Another example of when I start thinking I know QB prospects, it really means I need a life guard.  Even worse, I was actually thinking some semblance of a guy that could break a rookie QB record with 27 TD passes (despite only 13 starts) on a team coming off 0-16 football just needed a new situation.

So where does that leave me today?  Defending Jacoby Brissett and pulling alibis outta my ass for him.  

The truth about Brissett is as a backup forced into starting for 11 games, he's been fantastic for the first 58 minutes of games.

And he's made a couple completely inexcusable interceptions at the ends of losses.

But at the end of the day, the Browns are scoring a tick under 27 points a game. As you said before, the defense is why this team isn't 4-1 or 5-0.

[gumby73]

Let's pretend Baker never overthrows his Goodbye Letter 

Will Baker Mayfield ever regret not staying & competing for the Cleveland Browns ?

Ya got your Money... but now? Was it worth it?

  

[Canton Dawg]

1 hour ago, gumby73 said:

Ya got your Money... but now? Was it worth it?

We can ask our QB in waiting the same question.

[hoorta]

4 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

In Baker's defense, he didn't get Matt Rhule fired. 

The front office hasn't appropriately addressed the oline since Norwell left in free agency. Then you bring in a QB who needs that extra protection time and this is the end result of their current shitty recipe. 

No, he didn't tia, but his lousy play certainly helped send Ruhle towards the exit. I mean really- Bakers stats are abysmal. 

You might have been saying it, I definitely was.. We're going to find out this year if Mayfield is another Dandy Andy Dalton who needs everything around him to be perfect in order for him to succeed. I think we're seeing the answer to that question. You pointed out Baker's shortcomings, ditto any NFL defensive coordinator. 

I'm not ready to say Baker is as washed up as a beached whale, but what happens after he recovers from that high ankle sprain will be telling. We know the talent level of Sam Darnold.   

[Flugel]

18 hours ago, hoorta said:

No, he didn't tia, but his lousy play certainly helped send Ruhle towards the exit. I mean really- Bakers stats are abysmal. 

You might have been saying it, I definitely was.. We're going to find out this year if Mayfield is another Dandy Andy Dalton who needs everything around him to be perfect in order for him to succeed. I think we're seeing the answer to that question. You pointed out Baker's shortcomings, ditto any NFL defensive coordinator. 

I'm not ready to say Baker is as washed up as a beached whale, but what happens after he recovers from that high ankle sprain will be telling. We know the talent level of Sam Darnold.   

There's only 1 question left.  Will the person you really intended this post for be reading it some time today?  

[lodilobo]

On 10/11/2022 at 6:05 PM, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Too early to count us out. My.bullet points.

*Nobody rolled us, we beat ourselves 3 x

*We are only 1 game out

*Our division rivals are all beatable.

*Brissett has been workable and we are close. Like him or not, Watson surely will give us enough boost that we will be tougher to beat.

I hate the continued lack of discipline, but as bad as we are, teams have needed luck to beat us.

Go Browns

 

[nickers]

Matt Rhule got Matt Rhule fired... He would've gotten fired with ,or without Mayfield..Who I must say hasn't helped anyone... Not even himself... I'll just surmise Baker is waiting for next season to "bet on himself" as it were...... It just seems like the Baker thing to do... Meanwhile on Planet Browns,,, Different cast... Same results....

[mjp28]

1 hour ago, nickers said:

Matt Rhule got Matt Rhule fired... He would've gotten fired with ,or without Mayfield..Who I must say hasn't helped anyone... Not even himself... I'll just surmise Baker is waiting for next season to "bet on himself" as it were...... It just seems like the Baker thing to do... Meanwhile on Planet Browns,,, Different cast... Same results....

Good points.  I agree on BRM  waiting for next season to    "bet on himself"    well at least for now.  May come a bit sooner   "we'll see ".

The Baker Reagan Mayfield NFL football career story continues.   Stay tuned. 

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, nickers said:

Matt Rhule got Matt Rhule fired... He would've gotten fired with ,or without Mayfield..Who I must say hasn't helped anyone... Not even himself... I'll just surmise Baker is waiting for next season to "bet on himself" as it were...... It just seems like the Baker thing to do... Meanwhile on Planet Browns,,, Different cast... Same results....

Well just saw on NFL.com... Last year Baker thought he could play with one crippled arm, the report says- now he thinks he can play on one leg too.    

[nickers]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

Well just saw on NFL.com... Last year Baker thought he could play with one crippled arm, the report says- now he thinks he can play on one leg too.    

Hey if at first you don't succeed in Cleveland... You can go yuck it up in Carolina... And then go via Manziel!!... The only thing stopping Mayfield is Mayfield... oh well.. On to the next...

[Flugel]

15 hours ago, nickers said:

Hey if at first you don't succeed in Cleveland... You can go yuck it up in Carolina... And then go via Manziel!!... The only thing stopping Mayfield is Mayfield... oh well.. On to the next...

That's true Nicks.  It sucks that he wasn't anything but a short term band aid for the 1-31 football we previously got out of the QB position and all the other symptoms of Jimmy Haslam.  2 of his first 3 years, our fanbase had fun watching this team.  The 4th year there was an adversity that should have told me more about him than I allowed it to.  A big part of that was my pre-draft orientation/expectations about him.  After some success as a rookie, he didn't handle that success well at all so there was a sophomore slump. He rallied a little for a decent (but nowhere near the elite you need from a #1 overall) 3rd year ending in playoffs.  I'll agree he was more of a passenger than a driver. Looking at how long it's been since there's been a playoff W - the margin of error I saw was anything worse than 26 TDs to just 8 INTs probably doesn't even get us into the playoffs or the gravy of winning a playoff game.  Roethlisberger had junk-time yardage of 500 yards passing but 4 INTs and a fumble.  Baker had no turnovers and 3 passing TDs (as well as being part of 3 other drives punctuated with TDs) on a day our defense shined getting us turnovers and short fields. The only had to settle for FGs twice.  The stats weren't Big Sexy by any means but 0 turnovers and 48 points in a playoff game AT Pittsburgh warmed our groins.

I feel that he and the Browns both needed to go in different directions; and I thought it was setting up after the Owner/FO exercised the 5th year option.  The way this ended up going down by this Owner wasn't admirable at all.  People can blame media or whatever they want to back their pov.  I'm only giving mine.  THIS to me was the Jimmy that ran Pilot with his bad choices of Management.

The way things are unfolding in the aftermath, Baker went to an organization just like Haslam's' only this one has a horrible offensive line but a good defensive line. So, who got fired?  The Head Coach in Carolina - not the FO or the Owner right? YAY, THEY FIRED THE HEAD COACH.  What will change there?  Even McCaffrey can't get more than a couple yards per carry while all their other QBs are injured just like Baker.  At the end of this year they can probably fire their interim HC and start all over again.  This time they might want to draft a better LT than Raggedy Ann with their upper 1st round pick; but they'll blow that off and culture shock the crap out of QB Bryce Young coming out of Alabama.  They better hope he's the next Russell Wilson because they have a line that is even worse than Seattle had; without the Diesel power of a Marshawn Lynch.  McCaffrey isn't big/durable enough to run behind such a line for any length of time any more. But again, all our "Fire the Coach" guys would think all they needed to do was fire the Head Coach right?

Let's bring this over to the Browns.  Andrew Berry has been here longer than a sip of tea.  In 2020, this team made the playoffs with a lot of players from the previous FO that got fired here. Then, the brand new HC got crowned Coach of the Year in 2020.  That looks terrific right?  Here's the thing.  Our Owner hired his Head Coach 2 weeks before he hired Andrew Berry.  Read that again and ask yourself "gee, what could possibly go wrong here?"  It's the same thing that just went down with the QB.  Mayfield wasn't Berry's choice and neither was Stefanski.  Are all our "Fire the Head Coach" guys understanding this?  There's a thing called football philosophy that most GREAT organizations use as their foundation for everything else to follow.  Today, we're watching the repercussions of a FO that doesn't value the IDL.  Consequently, all the LBers that might have thought this is an ideal opportunity have been getting rag dolled and injured in the last 2 years. Like Tia mentioned in 1 of his posts, as important as the offensive line is to everything behind them and the opposition in from of them - the same thing applies to the DL and IDL in particular.  Another very bad symptom this causes is when our offensive line goes smashing pumpkins on the people in front of them for a long sustained TD drive - our IDL forfeits those points right back to the opponent even quicker.  So who gets blamed at the end of every loss?  1) The Head Coach; 2nd) a backup QB that missed a couple easy completions and threw 1 INT; 3) the DC; 4) a rookie Kicker; 5) the peanut vendors, etc.  But NEVER, EVER Andrew Berry whether that's right or wrong.  Again, it all starts at the top with the Owner who has caused these inevitable frictions of incompatible philosophies from hiring the GM after hiring the HC.  Blaming or scapegoating anyone but the owner is like blaming the severe lower back pain instead of the kidney cancer causing it.

[Bob806]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

That's true Nicks.  It sucks that he wasn't anything but a short term band aid for the 1-31 football we previously got out of the QB position and all the other symptoms of Jimmy Haslam.  2 of his first 3 years, our fanbase had fun watching this team.  The 4th year there was an adversity that should have told me more about him than I allowed it to.  A big part of that was my pre-draft orientation/expectations about him.  After some success as a rookie, he didn't handle that success well at all so there was a sophomore slump. He rallied a little for a decent (but nowhere near the elite you need from a #1 overall) 3rd year ending in playoffs.  I'll agree he was more of a passenger than a driver. Looking at how long it's been since there's been a playoff W - the margin of error I saw was anything worse than 26 TDs to just 8 INTs probably doesn't even get us into the playoffs or the gravy of winning a playoff game.  Roethlisberger had junk-time yardage of 500 yards passing but 4 INTs and a fumble.  Baker had no turnovers and 3 passing TDs (as well as being part of 3 other drives punctuated with TDs) on a day our defense shined getting us turnovers and short fields. The only had to settle for FGs twice.  The stats weren't Big Sexy by any means but 0 turnovers and 48 points in a playoff game AT Pittsburgh warmed our groins.

I feel that he and the Browns both needed to go in different directions; and I thought it was setting up after the Owner/FO exercised the 5th year option.  The way this ended up going down by this Owner wasn't admirable at all.  People can blame media or whatever they want to back their pov.  I'm only giving mine.  THIS to me was the Jimmy that ran Pilot with his bad choices of Management.

The way things are unfolding in the aftermath, Baker went to an organization just like Haslam's' only this one has a horrible offensive line but a good defensive line. So, who got fired?  The Head Coach in Carolina - not the FO or the Owner right? YAY, THEY FIRED THE HEAD COACH.  What will change there?  Even McCaffrey can't get more than a couple yards per carry while all their other QBs are injured just like Baker.  At the end of this year they can probably fire their interim HC and start all over again.  This time they might want to draft a better LT than Raggedy Ann with their upper 1st round pick; but they'll blow that off and culture shock the crap out of QB Bryce Young coming out of Alabama.  They better hope he's the next Russell Wilson because they have a line that is even worse than Seattle had; without the Diesel power of a Marshawn Lynch.  McCaffrey isn't big/durable enough to run behind such a line for any length of time any more. But again, all our "Fire the Coach" guys would think all they needed to do was fire the Head Coach right?

Let's bring this over to the Browns.  Andrew Berry has been here longer than a sip of tea.  In 2020, this team made the playoffs with a lot of players from the previous FO that got fired here. Then, the brand new HC got crowned Coach of the Year in 2020.  That looks terrific right?  Here's the thing.  Our Owner hired his Head Coach 2 weeks before he hired Andrew Berry.  Read that again and ask yourself "gee, what could possibly go wrong here?"  It's the same thing that just went down with the QB.  Mayfield wasn't Berry's choice and neither was Stefanski.  Are all our "Fire the Head Coach" guys understanding this?  There's a thing called football philosophy that most GREAT organizations use as their foundation for everything else to follow.  Today, we're watching the repercussions of a FO that doesn't value the IDL.  Consequently, all the LBers that might have thought this is an ideal opportunity have been getting rag dolled and injured in the last 2 years. Like Tia mentioned in 1 of his posts, as important as the offensive line is to everything behind them and the opposition in from of them - the same thing applies to the DL and IDL in particular.  Another very bad symptom this causes is when our offensive line goes smashing pumpkins on the people in front of them for a long sustained TD drive - our IDL forfeits those points right back to the opponent even quicker.  So who gets blamed at the end of every loss?  1) The Head Coach; 2nd) a backup QB that missed a couple easy completions and threw 1 INT; 3) the DC; 4) a rookie Kicker; 5) the peanut vendors, etc.  But NEVER, EVER Andrew Berry whether that's right or wrong.  Again, it all starts at the top with the Owner who has caused these inevitable frictions of incompatible philosophies from hiring the GM after hiring the HC.  Blaming or scapegoating anyone but the owner is like blaming the severe lower back pain instead of the kidney cancer causing it.

Good take regarding Berry/Stefanski. Certainly the NFL world, particularly locally isn't perfect, BUT you'd think by now the coach & GM are on the same page, no? At least in the same chapter or paragraph. 

There's difficulties in GM-ing in a salary cap era. All teams weigh the player roster possibilities, rookie contracts, etc. 

As frustrated as we fans are, I'm of the opinion the Browns are closer to being well run now, despite some rear-view mirror critiques. 

The roster has talent. IDL yeah, not so hot....if they succeed in patching that up, say in the off season, will there be leaks elsewhere? Probably. It's like a fleet of fire trucks or police cars- which ones to you keep & maintain, which ones do you ditch completely?

 

[nickers]

3 hours ago, Bob806 said:

 

The roster has talent. IDL yeah, not so hot....if they succeed in patching that up, say in the off season, will there be leaks elsewhere? Probably. It's like a fleet of fire trucks or police cars- which ones to you keep & maintain, which ones do you ditch completely?

 

Yes this roster has talent... This coaching staff and FO are running out of excuses...

[Bob806]

36 minutes ago, nickers said:

Yes this roster has talent... This coaching staff and FO are running out of excuses...

I read somewhere over 80% of the NFL games have been "one possession" scores. Obviously the Browns have been involved 100%, 5/5 (Pittsburgh game was close until that late Defensive TD). 

They simply suffer in making critical plays. It's maddening. 

[Flugel]

23 hours ago, Bob806 said:

Good take regarding Berry/Stefanski. Certainly the NFL world, particularly locally isn't perfect, BUT you'd think by now the coach & GM are on the same page, no? At least in the same chapter or paragraph. 

There's difficulties in GM-ing in a salary cap era. All teams weigh the player roster possibilities, rookie contracts, etc. 

As frustrated as we fans are, I'm of the opinion the Browns are closer to being well run now, despite some rear-view mirror critiques. 

The roster has talent. IDL yeah, not so hot....if they succeed in patching that up, say in the off season, will there be leaks elsewhere? Probably. It's like a fleet of fire trucks or police cars- which ones to you keep & maintain, which ones do you ditch completely?

 

I agree with a lot of this Bob. I'm just thinking out-loud in here.

The GM and the HC began working together in 2020 and they enjoyed a 11-5 season together (and won a playoff game without the Head Coach and lost the next one with the Head Coach). Nonetheless, going 11-5 in the first year of a Head Coaching gig is as close as it gets to walking on water in Cleveland/Lake Erie.  It's like the show my wife watches "Married at 1st Sight" for the GM.  Now, there's a strong 1st impression of the Head Coach as there should have been.

A little more on that, the defense caused turnovers and gave our offense short fields to work with.  Our QB wasn't elite at all, but a passing ratio of 26 TDs to only 8 INTs worked well in tandem with what Chubb and Hunt did on the ground.  That was a fun season to watch. They were still the Browns in the sense no lead was ever comfortable; but the cohesive will to win shined through.

Unfortunately, the team slipped to 8-9 last year.  This year it is already 2-3 with no solutions for stopping the run in a very tough schedule ahead.  Joe Flacco looked like Joe Montana against this defense (while the last 2 opponents have had their best rushing days of the year by a country mile); so I'm wondering if the GM is starting to feel antsy.  He has to wonder why this roster on game day is going in the direction it has been going.  How come the STs have been repeatedly flagged for 12 men on the field.  That's been the only thing that unit has done consistently so the coaching is definitely running through his mind.  The defense is forfeiting points way quicker than the long sustained scoring drives the Browns are putting together running the ball.  Again, what is the Head Coach's role in these 2 units that are losing more games than they are winning for us?  I can't imagine Berry isn't thinking about this. The HC is probably thinking like Parcells in the sense of "if you want me to cook the meal; then you ought to let me buy the groceries."  For example, stopping the run with the personnel he is sentenced to.  The GM could be thinking "this is YOUR Coaching staff so giddyup and get after it!"

I want the 2 to be compatible and we need them to be - but the way the hiring was done doesn't set this up.  The good news is I'm wrong a lot in here; but that's usually when I'm betting/making predictions with my heart instead of my head.  

Today we play a team we weren't even competitive against last year.  They're pretty good at running the ball like we are.  It's going to boil down to who plays the better defense and turnovers.  It would be great if the Browns can shock the world and win this game.  We need a momentum swing and this would be perfect. I'll be watching so I guess that means my heart is doing the steering thinking we have a good chance to win in spite of all that looks in favor of NE on the defensive side of the ball.  

Edited October 16, 2022 by Flugel

[Browns149]

On 10/11/2022 at 6:05 PM, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Too early to count us out. My.bullet points.

*Nobody rolled us, we beat ourselves 3 x

*We are only 1 game out

*Our division rivals are all beatable.

*Brissett has been workable and we are close. Like him or not, Watson surely will give us enough boost that we will be tougher to beat.

I hate the continued lack of discipline, but as bad as we are, teams have needed luck to beat us.

Go Browns

While all this is true, the head coaching is subpar

Belichick will run 50 times to win, or he will throw 50 times to win, or he will set up a great defensive scheme to win

Our head coach HAS to do it only 1 way, HIS WAY. He has to try and have a 50/50 split run and pass

Each game is different. The game dictates how you can win. Our coach doesn’t seem to know that

[Flugel]

On 10/11/2022 at 6:05 PM, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Too early to count us out. My.bullet points.

*Nobody rolled us, we beat ourselves 3 x

"We really kicked ass then!"   - Woody Harrelson

[Bob806]

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

I agree with a lot of this Bob. I'm just thinking out-loud in here

....wondering if the GM is starting to feel antsy.   I can't imagine Berry isn't thinking about this. The HC is probably thinking like Parcells in the sense of "if you want me to cook the meal; then you ought to let me buy the groceries."  For example, stopping the run with the personnel he is sentenced to.  The GM could be thinking "this is YOUR Coaching staff so giddyup and get after it!"

 

Today we play a team we weren't even competitive against last year.  They're pretty good at running the ball like we are.  It's going to boil down to who plays the better defense and turnovers.  It would be great if the Browns can shock the world and win this game.  We need a momentum swing and this would be perfect. I'll be watching so I guess that means my heart is doing the steering thinking we have a good chance to win in spite of all that looks in favor of NE on the defensive side of the ball.  

Lol, hey I forgot about that Parcels quote, certainly legendary.

I agree regarding a lot of your takes, and I'm wrong a lot as well.

Today could turn things around with a win. As optimistic as I normally am, I'm not expecting a W. Jeez, even when the Browns were pretty good years ago, they struggled against 2nd & 3rd string QBs (Scott Mitchell became a millionaire after he came in for Marino, Elway was nothing til he played Cle in 1983, etc). Zappe scares me, Stevenson scares me, BB scares me. The NY Jet game really screwed my optimism up.

Go Browns

 

 

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

4 hours ago, Browns149 said:

While all this is true, the head coaching is subpar

Belichick will run 50 times to win, or he will throw 50 times to win, or he will set up a great defensive scheme to win

Our head coach HAS to do it only 1 way, HIS WAY. He has to try and have a 50/50 split run and pass

Each game is different. The game dictates how you can win. Our coach doesn’t seem to know that

My frustrations are yours. The only thing we really don't know is whether this is Stefanski coaching, or Depodesta moneyball bullshit.

As I think about this logic points away from Kevin. His past habits and style have not at all been represented in the Browns.

I envision Kevin and Depodesta blasting each other, only to have Berry later on over dinner assuring Haslam that he just has to be patient and let Depo's analytics come to fruition.

This is the problem I have with analytics guys; the always blame everyone else, and insist that our stupidity is going to kill the future, insisting that waste patient.

Whatever we suggest to be problematic, one thing is not debatable; this team is not progressing.

[Korsou Dawg]

On 10/15/2022 at 8:29 AM, Flugel said:

That's true Nicks.  It sucks that he wasn't anything but a short term band aid for the 1-31 football we previously got out of the QB position and all the other symptoms of Jimmy Haslam.  2 of his first 3 years, our fanbase had fun watching this team.  The 4th year there was an adversity that should have told me more about him than I allowed it to.  A big part of that was my pre-draft orientation/expectations about him.  After some success as a rookie, he didn't handle that success well at all so there was a sophomore slump. He rallied a little for a decent (but nowhere near the elite you need from a #1 overall) 3rd year ending in playoffs.  I'll agree he was more of a passenger than a driver. Looking at how long it's been since there's been a playoff W - the margin of error I saw was anything worse than 26 TDs to just 8 INTs probably doesn't even get us into the playoffs or the gravy of winning a playoff game.  Roethlisberger had junk-time yardage of 500 yards passing but 4 INTs and a fumble.  Baker had no turnovers and 3 passing TDs (as well as being part of 3 other drives punctuated with TDs) on a day our defense shined getting us turnovers and short fields. The only had to settle for FGs twice.  The stats weren't Big Sexy by any means but 0 turnovers and 48 points in a playoff game AT Pittsburgh warmed our groins.

I feel that he and the Browns both needed to go in different directions; and I thought it was setting up after the Owner/FO exercised the 5th year option.  The way this ended up going down by this Owner wasn't admirable at all.  People can blame media or whatever they want to back their pov.  I'm only giving mine.  THIS to me was the Jimmy that ran Pilot with his bad choices of Management.

The way things are unfolding in the aftermath, Baker went to an organization just like Haslam's' only this one has a horrible offensive line but a good defensive line. So, who got fired?  The Head Coach in Carolina - not the FO or the Owner right? YAY, THEY FIRED THE HEAD COACH.  What will change there?  Even McCaffrey can't get more than a couple yards per carry while all their other QBs are injured just like Baker.  At the end of this year they can probably fire their interim HC and start all over again.  This time they might want to draft a better LT than Raggedy Ann with their upper 1st round pick; but they'll blow that off and culture shock the crap out of QB Bryce Young coming out of Alabama.  They better hope he's the next Russell Wilson because they have a line that is even worse than Seattle had; without the Diesel power of a Marshawn Lynch.  McCaffrey isn't big/durable enough to run behind such a line for any length of time any more. But again, all our "Fire the Coach" guys would think all they needed to do was fire the Head Coach right?

Let's bring this over to the Browns.  Andrew Berry has been here longer than a sip of tea.  In 2020, this team made the playoffs with a lot of players from the previous FO that got fired here. Then, the brand new HC got crowned Coach of the Year in 2020.  That looks terrific right?  Here's the thing.  Our Owner hired his Head Coach 2 weeks before he hired Andrew Berry.  Read that again and ask yourself "gee, what could possibly go wrong here?"  It's the same thing that just went down with the QB.  Mayfield wasn't Berry's choice and neither was Stefanski.  Are all our "Fire the Head Coach" guys understanding this?  There's a thing called football philosophy that most GREAT organizations use as their foundation for everything else to follow.  Today, we're watching the repercussions of a FO that doesn't value the IDL.  Consequently, all the LBers that might have thought this is an ideal opportunity have been getting rag dolled and injured in the last 2 years. Like Tia mentioned in 1 of his posts, as important as the offensive line is to everything behind them and the opposition in from of them - the same thing applies to the DL and IDL in particular.  Another very bad symptom this causes is when our offensive line goes smashing pumpkins on the people in front of them for a long sustained TD drive - our IDL forfeits those points right back to the opponent even quicker.  So who gets blamed at the end of every loss?  1) The Head Coach; 2nd) a backup QB that missed a couple easy completions and threw 1 INT; 3) the DC; 4) a rookie Kicker; 5) the peanut vendors, etc.  But NEVER, EVER Andrew Berry whether that's right or wrong.  Again, it all starts at the top with the Owner who has caused these inevitable frictions of incompatible philosophies from hiring the GM after hiring the HC.  Blaming or scapegoating anyone but the owner is like blaming the severe lower back pain instead of the kidney cancer causing it.

Since I am a vocal 'fire the DC guy,' I'll bite. I do agree with nearly everything you are saying, but you are presenting blaming the owners and calling for one or more members of the coaching staff to be fired as mutually exclusive. Clearly, they are not. We can agree that ownership deserves a lot of blame for the situation we are in, but here's a reality check for you: you cannot fire the owners. Irrespective of that, I still believe Woods should be fired.

Woods has an excuse for the results of the FO saddling him with the worst IDL in the league. To begin with, I say to that: if he saw the IDL as a problem himself, he should have put his foot down and demand investment in that position. Furthermore, Woods does not have any excuse for all the blown coverages we have seen this season, directly resulting in at least one loss. Especially considering the capital we have invested in the secondary, you simply got to get them to perform. He has had opportunities for years, and never achieved a defense that performed consistently. If anything, it seems to be deteriorating. Woods has got to go. 

Considering our schedule, this season is lost already. The time to make changes is NOW! Basically, treat the remainder of this season an extra long pre-season for next year.

[Flugel]

 

2 hours ago, Korsou Dawg said:

Since I am a vocal 'fire the DC guy,' I'll bite. I do agree with nearly everything you are saying, but you are presenting blaming the owners and calling for one or more members of the coaching staff to be fired as mutually exclusive. Clearly, they are not. We can agree that ownership deserves a lot of blame for the situation we are in, but here's a reality check for you: you cannot fire the owners. Irrespective of that, I still believe Woods should be fired.

Woods has an excuse for the results of the FO saddling him with the worst IDL in the league. To begin with, I say to that: if he saw the IDL as a problem himself, he should have put his foot down and demand investment in that position. Furthermore, Woods does not have any excuse for all the blown coverages we have seen this season, directly resulting in at least one loss. Especially considering the capital we have invested in the secondary, you simply got to get them to perform. He has had opportunities for years, and never achieved a defense that performed consistently. If anything, it seems to be deteriorating. Woods has got to go. 

Considering our schedule, this season is lost already. The time to make changes is NOW! Basically, treat the remainder of this season an extra long pre-season for next year.

I fully understand you can't fire the owner.  Like it or not, he's the disease causing all these symptoms killing our fun and enthusiasm right now. Do you know how many head coaches and coordinators we've fired since 1999? Has it FREAKING worked yet?  This is why I called out the guys thinking every single week "all we gotta do is fire the Head Coach?"  I believe I specified the "Fire The HC Guys" thinking that's the only problem every week.  And why? Who always hires the next Head Coach?  The owner using the same piss poor hiring criteria he used the last time. And how many playoff wins do we have since 1999 with all the rinsing and repeating of hire and fire?    The last time our owner hired a Head Coach it was 2 weeks before he hired the GM.  Lucky for both, a lot of pieces were already in place to put together an 11-5 season and advance out of the 1st round of the playoffs with this Head Coach and all 3 Coordinators (2 that have struggled badly this year).  A lot of that 2020 success was with personnel from previous FOs.

I'll be the 1st to agree the Special Teams Coordinator and the Defensive Coordinator have been disappointing.  This is where we need a Head Coach that wants to be the Head Coach he was hired to be instead of just an emotionless play-caller on game day. That's only 1 phase of the game shedding a blind eye to the other 2 phases that have been losing most of our games.  

Are the players that have been drafted/acquired since 2020 getting developed and improving so this team could take the next step from that 2020 success? Or, are we reverting back to our losing ways?  

The 2nd part I bolded above from you isn't really a bad idea per say.  My guess is the input usually comes from the Head Coach (after he meets with all of his Coordinators) not just the DC to give his GM a list of major needs determined by the Coordinators/Coaching Staff.  Having said that, there's a lot of egos in GM positions and our GM doesn't look like he wants to prioritize the DT position within our salary cap or on draft day.

I would NEVER mind firing a coach if I was assured the next one wasn't going to be just as disappointing as the one that needed to go.   

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Flugel