Depodesta finally got his coach but results are the same

[MDDawg]

Coach and front office "aligned" and the team looks just as bad as the talentless teams of the mid 2000s. Looks like he'll go in the next clearing house at the end of this season or next.

[Westside Steve]

8 hours ago, MDDawg said:

Coach and front office "aligned" and the team looks just as bad as the talentless teams of the mid 2000s. Looks like he'll go in the next clearing house at the end of this season or next.

Can't imagine why it hasn't been a huge success letting DePo deal the cards. I mean hell it worked in a movie right? Even if the movie was about baseball but, gee whiz.

Not sure how much input she has but I think it might be a bad idea to involve anybody with De in their name.

WSS

[gumby73]

reminder of,

Day 1 Coach Stef.. 

Your tool  has never taken a 🏈 snap in his life 

[Browns149]

36 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Can't imagine why it hasn't been a huge success letting DePo deal the cards. I mean hell it worked in a movie right? Even if the movie was about baseball but, gee whiz.

Not sure how much input she has but I think it might be a bad idea to involve anybody with De in their name.

WSS

The movie doesn’t show that the A’S NEVER WON ANYTHING. They never even made the world series

[Flugel]

9 hours ago, MDDawg said:

Coach and front office "aligned" and the team looks just as bad as the talentless teams of the mid 2000s. Looks like he'll go in the next clearing house at the end of this season or next.

Yeah but did Andrew Berry get his choice?  No, because he was hired 2 weeks after Stefanski was hired.   I'd bet BIG cake Berry and Stefanski are far from aligned even if one of them makes a pretentious statement that they really enjoy working with each other.   

Here's the disease (the owner) and the symptoms (the results of all his business decisions).  If someone has a severe lower back pain for kidney cancer they can take something to treat that symptom; but they probably prefer to remove the life threatening disease even more so.

I'm finally starting to feel like we're wasting a lot of time getting from 1 round of fire the Coach to the next round when it's still the crap at the top making the decisions.  By now, this kind of track record at the top isn't going to bring us a Sean Payton.  It's going to bring someone that would LOVE to come and do a great job here only to become the very next public enemy #1, As 1 fan appropriately reminded me, we can't fire the owner.  He's right.  We can flatline our expectations and enthusiasm for this owner's business as the volume of participants in the game day thread reminded us.  And where did the discussion inevitably go?  Fire this coach and fire that coach.  That's exactly what everyone in the FO wants is a complete pardon while our Owner knows he can't be fired.  

Where does all this leave the players?  "WTF are we doing here?"  Not to worry, the plan begins in week 12 when this team is 2-9.  Stay tuned?

[Browns149]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

Yeah but did Andrew Berry get his choice?  No, because he was hired 2 weeks after Stefanski was hired.   I'd bet BIG cake Berry and Stefanski are far from aligned even if one of them makes a pretentious statement that they really enjoy working with each other.   

Here's the disease (the owner) and the symptoms (the results of all his business decisions).  If someone has a severe lower back pain for kidney cancer they can take something to treat that symptom; but they probably prefer to remove the life threatening disease even more so.

I'm finally starting to feel like we're wasting a lot of time getting from 1 round of fire the Coach to the next round when it's still the crap at the top making the decisions.  By now, this kind of track record at the top isn't going to bring us a Sean Payton.  It's going to bring someone that would LOVE to come and do a great job here only to become the very next public enemy #1, As 1 fan appropriately reminded me, we can't fire the owner.  He's right.  We can flatline our expectations and enthusiasm for this owner's business as the volume of participants in the game day thread reminded us.  And where did the discussion inevitably go?  Fire this coach and fire that coach.  That's exactly what everyone in the FO wants is a complete pardon while our Owner knows he can't be fired.  

Where does all this leave the players?  "WTF are we doing here?"  Not to worry, the plan begins in week 12 when this team is 2-9.  Stay tuned?

Too bad the player coming back isn’t a franchise LB or DL

Also, the main reason I stopped buying season tickets, after 19 years, is the idiot owner. The guys doesn’t deserve anymore of my hard earned cash

[Browns149]

I also think the Browns could get Sean Payton. Just like they got Watson. Overpay for him, and he might cone here

[Bob806]

39 minutes ago, Browns149 said:

Too bad the player coming back isn’t a franchise LB or DL

Also, the main reason I stopped buying season tickets, after 19 years, is the idiot owner. The guys doesn’t deserve anymore of my hard earned cash

I split season tickets with my cousin, great view in the first row of the upper deck. If I had to make the decision today, I wouldn't renew for 2023. I'm actually more upset now than when they drafted Manziel, and didn't think that was possible.

I, like most of you here, am nearly broken as a fan. 

I fear heads will roll. Like @Flugel wrote, you can't fire the owner. So Stefanski may be the scapegoat. New staff comes in without first round picks for 3 years. Ugh.

 

[calfoxwc]

3 minutes ago, Bob806 said:

I split season tickets with my cousin, great view in the first row of the upper deck. If I had to make the decision today, I wouldn't renew for 2023. I'm actually more upset now than when they drafted Manziel, and didn't think that was possible.

I, like most of you here, am nearly broken as a fan. 

I fear heads will roll. Like @Flugel wrote, you can't fire the owner. So Stefanski may be the scapegoat. New staff comes in without first round picks for 3 years. Ugh.

 

It's sad, yep Stefanski doesn't adapt to anything - he doesn't know how, apparently.  He has his system, doesn't modify a system to fit the talent he has. Only TWELVE carries for 56 yards for Nick Chubb ?????????

dammit.

https://sportsnaut.com/nfl-defense-rankings/

9. New England Patriots (16)

"This is starting to look a bit like the New England Patriots defense of old. After shutting out the Detroit Lions in Week 5, Bill Belichick’s squad generated four takeaways, four sacks and held the Cleveland Browns to 4.9 yards per play. By far the most impressive thing, New England cleaned up its woes against the run by holding Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt to 68 rushing yards. We’re buying into this group again and you can bank on Belichick making life miserable for Justin Fields on Monday Night Football In Week 7."

[tiamat63]

42 minutes ago, Bob806 said:

I split season tickets with my cousin, great view in the first row of the upper deck. If I had to make the decision today, I wouldn't renew for 2023. I'm actually more upset now than when they drafted Manziel, and didn't think that was possible.

I, like most of you here, am nearly broken as a fan. 

I fear heads will roll. Like @Flugel wrote, you can't fire the owner. So Stefanski may be the scapegoat. New staff comes in without first round picks for 3 years. Ugh.

 

Double edged sword. 

 

 Fans, the overwhelming majority, have little to no idea what they're talking about football I.Q. wise.   Organizations would do well to avoid listening to their fans, apart from putting a winning product on the field which shuts everyone up.  

 Steelers are a prime example.  Their fans want Kenny Pickett because people always believe that the young rookie will come in and give their offense what it needs.  And while you may get a temporary boost in morale or improved play, that boost almost always comes crashing back down to the median soon enough. 

 Wisconsin firing Chyrst.  - wins the next game, then losses to a bad Sparty squad.  Regressing back to the median. 

 Joe Flacco going on a playoff tear with Anquan Boldin.  Ravens handed him a contract that hurt the team as much as his play.  Because after that 4 game stretch, he came crashing back to Earth. 

 Nick Foles and the Eagles magical run.  He was the hot off-season commodity with people believing, the phrase I LOVE hearing or seeing so much "he was in the wrong system".  Circle back around to 95% of fans having know idea how to explain those schemes or systems though.      Aaaaaaand Foles regressed back to who he is. 

 

 You are what you are in the NFL.  And I'm one of the youngest posters on this board, so I'll use a pop culture reference to make this real easy.    I never really got into Star Wars, but I know a lot of you guys older than me, that was the Marvel of your time. 

 The Browns defense, and to an extent, the offense as well, was constructed with a very subtle yet killswitch level weakness - The IDL for the defense and the QB for the offense.    That weakness, much like the movie, could be exploited by the right group who were not only aware of its existence, but had the ability to push the button. 

 Carolina didn't. 

The Jets sort of could but didn't. 

The Steelers could be didn't. 

Atlanta finally did. 

 

 End result is the whole damn thing being blown to hell.  Unlike the death star, the weakness of the Browns was a failure of the creators known design.  At least, I think that's the lore? I don't know, I haven't seen those movies in years. 

 The Cleveland media and the national media tends to overlook those exploitable subtleties for the same reason our society tends to ignore the heart and soul and focus on the glamour and sexy - because it's appealing, it's simple, doesn't require thought or mental dexterity, and the cosmetic is the most front and center thing to our eye. Few people care to go beyond skin deep. 

 The national and local media sold Browns fans an  unintentional lie. That, despite losing 2 so-so DTs, the defense could improve from 11th DVOA by adding.... a rookie 3rd round corner?   And starting an IDL that barely kept backup status the previous season.   It's not their fault, they don't know any better.  But Like a magician, I'm shaking my left hand because I don't want you to see what my right hand is doing. 

 

 The end result is the same, only the work done to get there is different.  The offense, apart from yesterdays game which was a bad matchup across the board, has put this team in winning position.  Meanwhile the defense has expectedly regressed and cost us games.   I will toot my own here, if you haven't been following what I've been posting, with the screenshots and video links, that isn't my fault.  I've lead as many horses to water as I can, fans just prefer to drink the laced kool-aid instead.  I get it, kool aid tastes better. But water is better for you.  

 

 Just like with Baker, this team has another personnel flaw at a part of it that will blow up the success of a game or season.    I saw the coaching adjustments under Baker that would have lead him to water, only to determine that he was the primary issue.     Just like with our defense, I've seen the coaches attempt to make adjustments to mask the weakness only to be attacked in new ways.  Horse, meet water, won't drink.    Just like with Baker, the priority issue is personnel over coaches, at the moment. 

 

 But you can't tell fans that.  You can't deliver bad news and say that the problem at hand is complex and requires a multi faceted approach to fix it.  You really can't do that with anything.  I used to run a gym and I would tell people there is no magic pill. It's diet, exercise and commitment.    The majority instead took the magic pill route (literally) only to find no meaningful long term improvement.

Adjust your expectations accordingly, Browns fanatics. 

 

@Ghoolie Always Ghoolie. You asked me a question in the game thread.  I will answer it for you in detail later this afternoon.  

 I appreciate the constructive talk.

 

 

[MDDawg]

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

Yeah but did Andrew Berry get his choice?  No, because he was hired 2 weeks after Stefanski was hired.   I'd bet BIG cake Berry and Stefanski are far from aligned even if one of them makes a pretentious statement that they really enjoy working with each other.   

Here's the disease (the owner) and the symptoms (the results of all his business decisions).  If someone has a severe lower back pain for kidney cancer they can take something to treat that symptom; but they probably prefer to remove the life threatening disease even more so.

I'm finally starting to feel like we're wasting a lot of time getting from 1 round of fire the Coach to the next round when it's still the crap at the top making the decisions.  By now, this kind of track record at the top isn't going to bring us a Sean Payton.  It's going to bring someone that would LOVE to come and do a great job here only to become the very next public enemy #1, As 1 fan appropriately reminded me, we can't fire the owner.  He's right.  We can flatline our expectations and enthusiasm for this owner's business as the volume of participants in the game day thread reminded us.  And where did the discussion inevitably go?  Fire this coach and fire that coach.  That's exactly what everyone in the FO wants is a complete pardon while our Owner knows he can't be fired.  

Where does all this leave the players?  "WTF are we doing here?"  Not to worry, the plan begins in week 12 when this team is 2-9.  Stay tuned?

True Berry didn't get his coach but was he meant to? DePo is the hands on extension of the owner so as you correctly pointed out, that's where the problem lies.

[Bob806]

52 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Double edged sword. 

 

 Fans, the overwhelming majority, have little to no idea what they're talking about football I.Q. wise.   Organizations would do well to avoid listening to their fans, apart from putting a winning product on the field which shuts everyone up.  

 

 You are what you are in the NFL. 

 The Browns defense, and to an extent, the offense as well, was constructed with a very subtle yet killswitch level weakness - The IDL for the defense and the QB for the offense.    That weakness, much like the movie, could be exploited by the right group who were not only aware of its existence, but had the ability to push the button. 

 Carolina didn't. 

The Jets sort of could but didn't. 

The Steelers could be didn't. 

Atlanta finally did. 

 

 The Cleveland media and the national media tends to overlook those exploitable subtleties for the same reason our society tends to ignore the heart and soul and focus on the glamour and sexy - because it's appealing, it's simple, doesn't require thought or mental dexterity, and the cosmetic is the most front and center thing to our eye. Few people care to go beyond skin deep. 

 The national and local media sold Browns fans an  unintentional lie. That, despite losing 2 so-so DTs, the defense could improve from 11th DVOA by adding.... a rookie 3rd round corner?   And starting an IDL that barely kept backup status the previous season.   It's not their fault, they don't know any better.  But Like a magician, I'm shaking my left hand because I don't want you to see what my right hand is doing. 

 

 The end result is the same, only the work done to get there is different.  The offense, apart from yesterdays game which was a bad matchup across the board, has put this team in winning position.  Meanwhile the defense has expectedly regressed and cost us games.   I will toot my own here, if you haven't been following what I've been posting, with the screenshots and video links, that isn't my fault.  I've lead as many horses to water as I can, fans just prefer to drink the laced kool-aid instead.  I get it, kool aid tastes better. But water is better for you.  

 

    Just like with Baker, the priority issue is personnel over coaches, at the moment. 

 

 But you can't tell fans that.  You can't deliver bad news and say that the problem at hand is complex and requires a multi faceted approach to fix it.  You really can't do that with anything.  I used to run a gym and I would tell people there is no magic pill. It's diet, exercise and commitment.    The majority instead took the magic pill route (literally) only to find no meaningful long term improvement.

Adjust your expectations accordingly, Browns fanatics. 

 

 

Agree. 

I guess I didn't elaborate enough.

I'm one of those "old school" fans. I also played, but so what on that.

My fears are that this shady owner has started to lose "old school fans," and in this instant-gratification society, he hasn't gained too many younger fans. Hell, if you're under 40 (like my 3 sons), you've only seen about 3 or 4 decent Browns seasons. 

Apathy or disinterest will kill a once-proud fan base. I'm certain Haslam WANTS to succeed. Like Ghoolie said, he doesn't know how. 

You hit the lottery for say a $300 million mega ball winner. Do you have the "head to be rich?" ....that's Haslam- he won the rights to own an NFL team yet he doesn't (seem) have the ability to properly delegate control of his toy. You'd think after running Pettine/Shanahan out of town, he'd learn; hell, I kinda thought he did. 

He forgot that the ownership thing has a fraternity-type life, with unwritten rules. The Watson thing has been beaten to death, but to me it's clear- the Browns dug another trench with the league office. Yesterday's game is a clear reminder of it...not only a crappy display of Browns football, but head-scratching officiating towards the Browns all day long. Amari Cooper had people draped on him all day, Brissett got facemasked, that onside kick review was a total blown overturn. Things that make you go "hmmm."

You're spot on regarding the defense. Lamar may be able to rush for 300 yards himself next week. I hope not, but I could see it. SOB this is crazy.

[Bob806]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

It's sad, yep Stefanski doesn't adapt to anything - he doesn't know how, apparently.  He has his system, doesn't modify a system to fit the talent he has. Only TWELVE carries for 56 yards for Nick Chubb ?????????

dammit.

https://sportsnaut.com/nfl-defense-rankings/

9. New England Patriots (16)

"This is starting to look a bit like the New England Patriots defense of old. After shutting out the Detroit Lions in Week 5, Bill Belichick’s squad generated four takeaways, four sacks and held the Cleveland Browns to 4.9 yards per play. By far the most impressive thing, New England cleaned up its woes against the run by holding Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt to 68 rushing yards. We’re buying into this group again and you can bank on Belichick making life miserable for Justin Fields on Monday Night Football In Week 7."

Cal, I ran out of "upvotes," yeah it's sad as hell.

[hoorta]

9 minutes ago, Bob806 said:

Agree. 

I guess I didn't elaborate enough.

I'm one of those "old school" fans. I also played, but so what on that.

My fears are that this shady owner has started to lose "old school fans," and in this instant-gratification society, he hasn't gained too many younger fans. Hell, if you're under 40 (like my 3 sons), you've only seen about 3 or 4 decent Browns seasons. 

Apathy or disinterest will kill a once-proud fan base. I'm certain Haslam WANTS to succeed. Like Ghoolie said, he doesn't know how. 

You hit the lottery for say a $300 million mega ball winner. Do you have the "head to be rich?" ....that's Haslam- he won the rights to own an NFL team yet he doesn't (seem) have the ability to properly delegate control of his toy. You'd think after running Pettine/Shanahan out of town, he'd learn; hell, I kinda thought he did. 

He forgot that the ownership thing has a fraternity-type life, with unwritten rules. The Watson thing has been beaten to death, but to me it's clear- the Browns dug another trench with the league office. Yesterday's game is a clear reminder of it...not only a crappy display of Browns football, but head-scratching officiating towards the Browns all day long. Amari Cooper had people draped on him all day, Brissett got facemasked, that onside kick review was a total blown overturn. Things that make you go "hmmm."

You're spot on regarding the defense. Lamar may be able to rush for 300 yards himself next week. I hope not, but I could see it. SOB this is crazy.

I can say this Bob, we're only 1\3rd of the way through the season, and we're already seeing fans tune out. Plenty of empty seats in the 500 level yesterday. My pal couldn't even get face value for our 20 yard line 100 level seats. 

I'm about as old school diehard as you're going to find. I go all the way back to grandpa taking me to the stadium to see Jim Brown play in person, beating the Cowboys 42-7. Said it elsewhere, unless I see a dramatic improvement in play, I'm not wasting my time and money taking a road trip up to Buffalo just to see the Browns get shellacked by Allen & company.

[hoorta]

4 hours ago, gumby73 said:

reminder of,

Day 1 Coach Stef.. 

Your tool  has never taken a 🏈 snap in his life 

You apparently need better analytics.  Vision should tell you what you're doing isn't working. 

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

It's sad, yep Stefanski doesn't adapt to anything - he doesn't know how, apparently.  He has his system, doesn't modify a system to fit the talent he has. Only TWELVE carries for 56 yards for Nick Chubb ?????????

dammit.

https://sportsnaut.com/nfl-defense-rankings/

In (small) defense of Kev, it wasn't unusual to see the  Patriots playing 8 in the box. His analytics told him you can't effectively run against that. 

Once I got back from the game, we discussed it. Bill B was daring Brissett to beat him passing (should have been easy) and Jacoby failed miserably. He is what he is, a backup quarterback that's regressing to  his mediocre status.

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

Double edged sword. 

 

 Fans, the overwhelming majority, have little to no idea what they're talking about football I.Q. wise.   Organizations would do well to avoid listening to their fans, apart from putting a winning product on the field which shuts everyone up.  

 Steelers are a prime example.  Their fans want Kenny Pickett because people always believe that the young rookie will come in and give their offense what it needs.  And while you may get a temporary boost in morale or improved play, that boost almost always comes crashing back down to the median soon enough. 

 Wisconsin firing Chyrst.  - wins the next game, then losses to a bad Sparty squad.  Regressing back to the median. 

 Joe Flacco going on a playoff tear with Anquan Boldin.  Ravens handed him a contract that hurt the team as much as his play.  Because after that 4 game stretch, he came crashing back to Earth. 

 Nick Foles and the Eagles magical run.  He was the hot off-season commodity with people believing, the phrase I LOVE hearing or seeing so much "he was in the wrong system".  Circle back around to 95% of fans having know idea how to explain those schemes or systems though.      Aaaaaaand Foles regressed back to who he is. 

 

 You are what you are in the NFL.  And I'm one of the youngest posters on this board, so I'll use a pop culture reference to make this real easy.    I never really got into Star Wars, but I know a lot of you guys older than me, that was the Marvel of your time. 

 The Browns defense, and to an extent, the offense as well, was constructed with a very subtle yet killswitch level weakness - The IDL for the defense and the QB for the offense.    That weakness, much like the movie, could be exploited by the right group who were not only aware of its existence, but had the ability to push the button. 

 Carolina didn't. 

The Jets sort of could but didn't. 

The Steelers could be didn't. 

Atlanta finally did. 

 

 End result is the whole damn thing being blown to hell.  Unlike the death star, the weakness of the Browns was a failure of the creators known design.  At least, I think that's the lore? I don't know, I haven't seen those movies in years. 

 The Cleveland media and the national media tends to overlook those exploitable subtleties for the same reason our society tends to ignore the heart and soul and focus on the glamour and sexy - because it's appealing, it's simple, doesn't require thought or mental dexterity, and the cosmetic is the most front and center thing to our eye. Few people care to go beyond skin deep. 

 The national and local media sold Browns fans an  unintentional lie. That, despite losing 2 so-so DTs, the defense could improve from 11th DVOA by adding.... a rookie 3rd round corner?   And starting an IDL that barely kept backup status the previous season.   It's not their fault, they don't know any better.  But Like a magician, I'm shaking my left hand because I don't want you to see what my right hand is doing. 

 

 The end result is the same, only the work done to get there is different.  The offense, apart from yesterdays game which was a bad matchup across the board, has put this team in winning position.  Meanwhile the defense has expectedly regressed and cost us games.   I will toot my own here, if you haven't been following what I've been posting, with the screenshots and video links, that isn't my fault.  I've lead as many horses to water as I can, fans just prefer to drink the laced kool-aid instead.  I get it, kool aid tastes better. But water is better for you.  

 

 Just like with Baker, this team has another personnel flaw at a part of it that will blow up the success of a game or season.    I saw the coaching adjustments under Baker that would have lead him to water, only to determine that he was the primary issue.     Just like with our defense, I've seen the coaches attempt to make adjustments to mask the weakness only to be attacked in new ways.  Horse, meet water, won't drink.    Just like with Baker, the priority issue is personnel over coaches, at the moment. 

 

 But you can't tell fans that.  You can't deliver bad news and say that the problem at hand is complex and requires a multi faceted approach to fix it.  You really can't do that with anything.  I used to run a gym and I would tell people there is no magic pill. It's diet, exercise and commitment.    The majority instead took the magic pill route (literally) only to find no meaningful long term improvement.

Adjust your expectations accordingly, Browns fanatics. 

 

@Ghoolie Always Ghoolie. You asked me a question in the game thread.  I will answer it for you in detail later this afternoon.  

 I appreciate the constructive talk.

Thanks for the analysis tia. Can't remember who said it, but it brings to mind.. If you start listening to the fans, pretty soon you're going to wind up sitting in the seats with them. 

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

It's sad, yep Stefanski doesn't adapt to anything - he doesn't know how, apparently.  He has his system, doesn't modify a system to fit the talent he has. Only TWELVE carries for 56 yards for Nick Chubb ?????????

dammit.

https://sportsnaut.com/nfl-defense-rankings/

9. New England Patriots (16)

"This is starting to look a bit like the New England Patriots defense of old. After shutting out the Detroit Lions in Week 5, Bill Belichick’s squad generated four takeaways, four sacks and held the Cleveland Browns to 4.9 yards per play. By far the most impressive thing, New England cleaned up its woes against the run by holding Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt to 68 rushing yards. We’re buying into this group again and you can bank on Belichick making life miserable for Justin Fields on Monday Night Football In Week 7."

 

 Ultimately this is a grudge you hold because of the Baker situation. 

 I understand your mind can never be changed until it's too late. I accept that's who you are and it is what it is. 

 

Two things. 

First. 

- I could dive into the complexity of Stef stealing motions from the Ravens, a lot like what McVay L.A. did, and incorporated that into the pin and pull scheme along with a fake read element that would blow your mind.     So this "Stef doesnt adapt" is your feeling more-so than a reality. Had the Browns won yesterday, you wouldn't have been present today let alone saying something like that.  Again, it's who you are and it's a short coming I have to deal with should I feel the desire to uncover your posts (like I did now) 

Just know, that you're demonstrably incorrect. 

 

Second 

- The Pats defense isn't "back".  They've hit a great stretch of matchups against bad offensive play and personnel that has given the impression of a return to greatness. They still lack a dominant interior player for their base 2 gaps, their corners are beatable and as we saw with your boy Dugger, when he's forced into matchups on the perimeter, he is a liability.  

I'm waiting for the right time to "buy high " when the Pats become too overvauled gambling wise when Vegas goes to capitalize on betting lines based of that articles narrative.  People will read that, believe it and wager it at the wrong time - probably against Buffalo. 

 Let people believe the days of Wilfork and Seymour are back. Good way to make money. 

 

[Browns149]

1 hour ago, Bob806 said:

Agree. 

I guess I didn't elaborate enough.

I'm one of those "old school" fans. I also played, but so what on that.

My fears are that this shady owner has started to lose "old school fans," and in this instant-gratification society, he hasn't gained too many younger fans. Hell, if you're under 40 (like my 3 sons), you've only seen about 3 or 4 decent Browns seasons. 

Apathy or disinterest will kill a once-proud fan base. I'm certain Haslam WANTS to succeed. Like Ghoolie said, he doesn't know how. 

You hit the lottery for say a $300 million mega ball winner. Do you have the "head to be rich?" ....that's Haslam- he won the rights to own an NFL team yet he doesn't (seem) have the ability to properly delegate control of his toy. You'd think after running Pettine/Shanahan out of town, he'd learn; hell, I kinda thought he did. 

He forgot that the ownership thing has a fraternity-type life, with unwritten rules. The Watson thing has been beaten to death, but to me it's clear- the Browns dug another trench with the league office. Yesterday's game is a clear reminder of it...not only a crappy display of Browns football, but head-scratching officiating towards the Browns all day long. Amari Cooper had people draped on him all day, Brissett got facemasked, that onside kick review was a total blown overturn. Things that make you go "hmmm."

You're spot on regarding the defense. Lamar may be able to rush for 300 yards himself next week. I hope not, but I could see it. SOB this is crazy.

Are you saying that JOK being here isn’t going to stop LaMarr?

I thought that’s why he’s here

[BrownsKidd]

34 minutes ago, hoorta said:

In (small) defense of Kev, it wasn't unusual to see the  Patriots playing 8 in the box. His analytics told him you can't effectively run against that. 

Once I got back from the game, we discussed it. Bill B was daring Brissett to beat him passing (should have been easy) and Jacoby failed miserably. He is what he is, a backup quarterback that's regressing to  his mediocre status.

This is what every team is doing to us. We can point fingers at the front office, Stefanski, Depo, etc., but right now, teams know how to beat us.

Heard a suprising stat last week on the The Fan from the browns beat reporter (forget the name). He was speaking to the run game, and at times what is the perceived perception of not running enough.
First stat he presented was that if you remove running QBs, the browns were number one in run attempts in the league.
The second stat was that in the last two years, teams that averaged 12 yards per catch were 32-1. The point, the run game and the passing game both have to be good. The glaring omission in this thread is that Jacoby is a career back up, when faced with a definitive decision, can't make them consistent enough nor has the skill set to get us where we need to be. If our record was what it is right now with Deshaun, I think this topic is justified. But with JB on the helm, we are just getting by.

The one issue I have is that I think we should look to Dobbs. IMO, he made plays during preseason and can move his feat and gets out of pressure. If we want any chance of playoffs, it's time to move on from Jacoby and give the damn ball to Josh Dobbs.

[SdBacker80]

Didn’t watch Sunday I’m out here in amazing Central Colorado.  Being ignorant here I’m not going to assess but I see a lot of venom tossed at Brissett and calling on Dobbs.  What did some of you expect?  
 

I expected a defense that would keep us in games and a game manager QB helping guide a victory.  Not putting Brissett in situations where he needs to throw 45 times to keep up. 

 

 

[Canton Dawg]

2 hours ago, Bob806 said:

New staff comes in without first round picks for 3 years. Ugh.

Yep, Jimma and AB bellied up to the table and pushed all their chips in the middle and came up with snake eyes.

Who didn’t see that one coming?

Stefanski will be the “escape goat” but whoever replaces him will still have the Haslams and the group of misfits in the FO.

[BrownsKidd]

3 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Didn’t watch Sunday I’m out here in amazing Central Colorado.  Being ignorant here I’m not going to assess but I see a lot of venom tossed at Brissett and calling on Dobbs.  What did some of you expect?  
 

I expected a defense that would keep us in games and a game manager QB helping guide a victory.  Not putting Brissett in situations where he needs to throw 45 times to keep up. 

 

 

Don't disagree to a point. JB had an open throw yesterday, very little pressure at the time. Under threw the ball and it was picked. Last week. had an opportunity to run for a potential first down in the red zone, JB threw a pick instead. There have been additional instances when he should run verses throw. Yesterday, JB's pocket presence was poor. JB can run, but is slow. Dobbs IMO, gives us a more Watson-esq type of offense. 

And I agree with you wholeheartedly that our defense has been shit. Blown coverages, despite being 12th (as of yesterday) on 3rd down conversions, it does seem like it's a lot worse. We had one sack yesterday, one? We should be expecting more out of Garret. Why aren't we pressuring more and showing more blitz packages, is that personnel, or is that Joe Woods? 

[Canton Dawg]

[jiggins7919]

I hate to say it, but I don't want Stefanski going anywhere until he gets a full year with Watson. That's only fair to me. We gave Stef a dramatic offseason full of absolute bullcrap and then expected him to win with a backup QB AND an abysmal defense. Why not just wait until after next year? We'll obviously have a new defensive coordinator and we'll have Watson to begin the year. 

I just hope we have the patience to wait because I'm telling you guys, this season is about to get ugly. And when I say ugly, I mean we might be the worst team in the league next to Chicago and Carolina. We're probably going to lose horrifically next week and we need to be prepared for it. It's going to get really bad for us. We're losing to 3rd string qb's at HOME. What do you think is going to happen when we play LAMAR in Baltimore? 

[tiamat63]

12 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

 What do you think is going to happen when we play LAMAR in Baltimore? 

 I see this being brought up quite a bit.   I actually think we matchup a fair bit better against Baltimore than we do New England. 

 Their secondary isn't as equipped to deal with Coop as the Pats were, our running game has been good at finding space to work against their 1 gap calls and our defense, while having it's issues, might find some success against their option game. 

 Lamar can throw a pretty and decently accurate pass when he has time to set his feet perfectly.  When he doesn't? Then he's an average passer.

 I could see our defensive mindset being the same next week as it was yesterday.  A lot of man coverage and 5 man pressures sent at Lamar in order to force him to throw accurately without having perfect footwork timing and that wonky ass throwing motion of his. 

 We lack that interior push though, so asking the DBs to hold up on the backend is really a tall order. 

[Korsou Dawg]

5 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Double edged sword. 

 

 Fans, the overwhelming majority, have little to no idea what they're talking about football I.Q. wise.   Organizations would do well to avoid listening to their fans, apart from putting a winning product on the field which shuts everyone up.  

 Steelers are a prime example.  Their fans want Kenny Pickett because people always believe that the young rookie will come in and give their offense what it needs.  And while you may get a temporary boost in morale or improved play, that boost almost always comes crashing back down to the median soon enough. 

 Wisconsin firing Chyrst.  - wins the next game, then losses to a bad Sparty squad.  Regressing back to the median. 

 Joe Flacco going on a playoff tear with Anquan Boldin.  Ravens handed him a contract that hurt the team as much as his play.  Because after that 4 game stretch, he came crashing back to Earth. 

 Nick Foles and the Eagles magical run.  He was the hot off-season commodity with people believing, the phrase I LOVE hearing or seeing so much "he was in the wrong system".  Circle back around to 95% of fans having know idea how to explain those schemes or systems though.      Aaaaaaand Foles regressed back to who he is. 

 

 You are what you are in the NFL.  And I'm one of the youngest posters on this board, so I'll use a pop culture reference to make this real easy.    I never really got into Star Wars, but I know a lot of you guys older than me, that was the Marvel of your time. 

 The Browns defense, and to an extent, the offense as well, was constructed with a very subtle yet killswitch level weakness - The IDL for the defense and the QB for the offense.    That weakness, much like the movie, could be exploited by the right group who were not only aware of its existence, but had the ability to push the button. 

 Carolina didn't. 

The Jets sort of could but didn't. 

The Steelers could be didn't. 

Atlanta finally did. 

 

 End result is the whole damn thing being blown to hell.  Unlike the death star, the weakness of the Browns was a failure of the creators known design.  At least, I think that's the lore? I don't know, I haven't seen those movies in years. 

 The Cleveland media and the national media tends to overlook those exploitable subtleties for the same reason our society tends to ignore the heart and soul and focus on the glamour and sexy - because it's appealing, it's simple, doesn't require thought or mental dexterity, and the cosmetic is the most front and center thing to our eye. Few people care to go beyond skin deep. 

 The national and local media sold Browns fans an  unintentional lie. That, despite losing 2 so-so DTs, the defense could improve from 11th DVOA by adding.... a rookie 3rd round corner?   And starting an IDL that barely kept backup status the previous season.   It's not their fault, they don't know any better.  But Like a magician, I'm shaking my left hand because I don't want you to see what my right hand is doing. 

 

 The end result is the same, only the work done to get there is different.  The offense, apart from yesterdays game which was a bad matchup across the board, has put this team in winning position.  Meanwhile the defense has expectedly regressed and cost us games.   I will toot my own here, if you haven't been following what I've been posting, with the screenshots and video links, that isn't my fault.  I've lead as many horses to water as I can, fans just prefer to drink the laced kool-aid instead.  I get it, kool aid tastes better. But water is better for you.  

 

 Just like with Baker, this team has another personnel flaw at a part of it that will blow up the success of a game or season.    I saw the coaching adjustments under Baker that would have lead him to water, only to determine that he was the primary issue.     Just like with our defense, I've seen the coaches attempt to make adjustments to mask the weakness only to be attacked in new ways.  Horse, meet water, won't drink.    Just like with Baker, the priority issue is personnel over coaches, at the moment. 

 

 But you can't tell fans that.  You can't deliver bad news and say that the problem at hand is complex and requires a multi faceted approach to fix it.  You really can't do that with anything.  I used to run a gym and I would tell people there is no magic pill. It's diet, exercise and commitment.    The majority instead took the magic pill route (literally) only to find no meaningful long term improvement.

Adjust your expectations accordingly, Browns fanatics. 

 

@Ghoolie Always Ghoolie. You asked me a question in the game thread.  I will answer it for you in detail later this afternoon.  

 I appreciate the constructive talk.

 

 

As I mentioned before, I appreciate your posts even though I lack the football literacy to understand half of the stuff you post in your breakdown thread. I'm Dutch for Chirst sake. We think football is played with the feet, as it has been for well over a century, and are dumbfounded to find it is what you call this oddly shaped pigskin throwie-runny ball.

Knowing this, I by no means consider myself a suitable candidate for a position at a professional football organization (other professional organizations, most certainly). Nor do I expect the 'input' I provide free of charge through this board to be acted upon.

I haven't reached the apathy some of the lifelong Browns supporters are saying they feel, and I hope I never do. Seeing the Browns play like they did yesterday is gut-wrenching. Whether a play goes the Browns way, or the oppositions', I am going to continue to shout expletives at the TV. Just slightly different expletives. 

The point being: the post I quoted comes across as being frustrated about the opinions and emotions voiced on the board. A post in the game-day thread seemed to contain similar frustration. This is a fan forum. It is a place where fans come to share their experience of supporting the Browns. It is supposed to contain the emotions and opinions of the members, informed or otherwise. 

You say fan(atic)s should adjust their expectations, and I for one have. You would do well to do the same, when it comes to your expectations of other members' comments. I am going to continue to call for the proverbial head of Woods and whoever the f*ck the STC is, and every other knee-jerk reaction I have to seeing the Browns playing the way they are. It makes supporting the Browns that little more bearable.

GO (multiple expletives) BROWNS! 

[tiamat63]

1 minute ago, Korsou Dawg said:

You say fan(atic)s should adjust their expectations, and I for one have. You would do well to do the same, when it comes to your expectations of other members' comments.

 

You're right.   You're absolutely right.  

 I'm just possessed of method and logic, therefore I can sort of emotionally remove myself from the equation once I see an outcome on the horizon.   Really helps to make level headed personal and financial decisions.     Doesn't excuse the fact that you're correct though - this is a place where people can and should vent.  

 This team was built to struggle.  Flat out, doesn't take much to see that if you follow the right football minds.  I'll lead you guys there if you follow the bread crumb trail.     So for fans to react so....  off cuff,  is confusing to me.      I suppose it boils down to my believing people need healthy expectations and consequently healthy responses to the outcomes of what is expected.

 

4 minutes ago, Korsou Dawg said:

. I'm Dutch for Chirst sake.

Oh, you done goofed, pal.

 

There's two things I can't stand.

 

- People who are intollerant of other people's cultures....

- ..... and the Dutch

[Browns149]

  I suppose it boils down to my believing people need healthy expectations and consequently healthy responses to the outcomes of what is expected.

You want this from Browns fans??

Good luck

He might not see this. He put me on mute yesterday, because I complain too much about crappy football

[Korsou Dawg]

35 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Oh, you done goofed, pal.

 

There's two things I can't stand.

 

- People who are intollerant of other people's cultures....

- ..... and the Dutch

Appreciate the response, but...