Depodesta finally got his coach but results are the same

[Korsou Dawg]

18 minutes ago, Browns149 said:

  I suppose it boils down to my believing people need healthy expectations and consequently healthy responses to the outcomes of what is expected.

You want this from Browns fans??

Good luck

He might not see this. He put me on mute yesterday, because I complain too much about crappy football

That would be a shame, and kind of the point of my excessively lengthy comment. 

[tiamat63]

5 hours ago, BrownsKidd said:

Why aren't we pressuring more and showing more blitz packages, is that personnel, or is that Joe Woods? 

 I really have to ask, what did everyone else see yesterday?   Because I'm trying to understand the minds of fans more, if I can.

 I see you have an upvote, which means there is yourself and at least one other person who believed we didn't send more pressures.    Meanwhile I saw the total opposite.  We blitz'd ourselves into trouble, or blitz'd ourselves knowing it causes trouble and were willing to live with the potential trade off.  

 So I'm curious as to what lead you to feel that we didn't actually send pressure yesterday?  Was it that it didn't get home?   Or that you just genuinely didn't see the Browns call it as much as you'd like?  Which leads to another question, what percentage would make you feel comfortable on the blitz being called?

[Why?!?!?]

Whenever we fire up the “fire everyone”machine in Cleveland I ask myself “Does the coach have the players to win?”
For once, I think they do. 

Sure our IDL is weak, but is every unit on every winning team in the NFL perfect? Do all winning coaches in the NFL have the perfect player groups across their teams?

OR?

Are good coaches/organizations able to put their players in the best positions to make plays/win games based on those players’ abilities and skill sets. Our staff for whatever reason can’t make this happen . . . On a pretty talented roster.  What do you think Belichick’s record would be with this squad against the schedule we played?

We’re really gonna blame Brissett and Tommy Togiai for opposing wide receivers just milling around the field wide open all year? Uncle Rico could’ve had the same day Zappe had yesterday throwing to guys  taking leisurely strolls wide open across First Energy field all day, Its the glaring reason we are 2-4 and not 5-1. 
 

I didn’t go into the season with many expectations but I did expect our touted secondary to be able to cover at least one guy at least one time 😂 

[SdBacker80]

21 minutes ago, Why?!?!? said:

Whenever we fire up the “fire everyone”machine in Cleveland I ask myself “Does the coach have the players to win?”
For once, I think they do. 

Sure our IDL is weak, but is every unit on every winning team in the NFL perfect? Do all winning coaches in the NFL have the perfect player groups across their teams?

OR?

Are good coaches/organizations able to put their players in the best positions to make plays/win games based on those players’ abilities and skill sets. Our staff for whatever reason can’t make this happen . . . On a pretty talented roster.  What do you think Belichick’s record would be with this squad against the schedule we played?

We’re really gonna blame Brissett and Tommy Togiai for opposing wide receivers just milling around the field wide open all year? Uncle Rico could’ve had the same day Zappe had yesterday throwing to guys  taking leisurely strolls wide open across First Energy field all day, Its the glaring reason we are 2-4 and not 5-1. 
 

I didn’t go into the season with many expectations but I did expect our touted secondary to be able to cover at least one guy at least one time 😂 

 

Yes!!!!  Bills secondary. 49ers Oline. Chargers multiple groups…list goes on and on.

Go back and look at unit rankings right around preseason time. The secondary could be the most underachieving unit in the entire NFL. 

[Canton Dawg]

20 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

The secondary could be the most underachieving unit in the entire NFL. 

This ^^^^
 

I’ve mentioned it before, that we have invested lots of money and draft capital in the secondary.

The results are underwhelming, and it either boils down to talent or coaching.

[Orion]

8 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

The national and local media sold Browns fans an  unintentional lie. That, despite losing 2 so-so DTs, the defense could improve from 11th DVOA by adding.... a rookie 3rd round corner?   And starting an IDL that barely kept backup status the previous season.

Many of us feared this throughout the offseason.  The IDL.  AND the LB'ers being drafted were built for speed.  Speed has pretty much been their philosophy.  But would it hold up against the run?  And when Anthony Walker went down...well, that just magnified it.  Hopefully the new guy from Atlanta that Berry traded for will be the Anthony Walker.

So, for two straight games we were getting smashed by the run.  Well, Woods is in the hot seat to do something about it.  The Patriots like to run.  Third string QB.  So, I'll commit more guys to the run and play thinner on the back end.  Yup!  Worked fairly well.  BUT, it put too much strain on the back end.  And with Ward being out, the secondary had guys wide open.  

The IDL / MLB deficiency is just too large to cover up with a comb-over from the back end.

I've defended Stefanski but have stated that I don't care for what I consider to be over aggressive 4th down decision making.  And who knows, that could be an organizational mandate.  But he's doing what he can with what he's given to work with.  Some people wanted him to run 30 times against Bill Belichick, like that was gonna work.  Bill makes you  play to your weakness...so you better not have one.   And Stef did.  It's called, the passing game.  He's got Brissett, a career backup, who shouldn't throw when he's on the run.  

Three quarters of the DL has to be addressed.  (Clowney doesn't play enough)  Is Delpit a good enough safety?  ILB?  Hospital Ward...

This thing has to be evaluated during and after next season when they'll have their QB and have another shot at fixing the D.

...and I heard on The Fan today that the organization just hired two analysts.     

[tiamat63]

2 hours ago, Korsou Dawg said:

Appreciate the response, but...

 

 

[Dutch Oven]

I feel very targeted right now. 

[Canton Dawg]

Have some pizza Dutch.

[Dutch Oven]

I can almost smell your photo!

[SdBacker80]

5 hours ago, Orion said:

Many of us feared this throughout the offseason.  The IDL.  AND the LB'ers being drafted were built for speed.  Speed has pretty much been their philosophy.  But would it hold up against the run?  And when Anthony Walker went down...well, that just magnified it.  Hopefully the new guy from Atlanta that Berry traded for will be the Anthony Walker.

So, for two straight games we were getting smashed by the run.  Well, Woods is in the hot seat to do something about it.  The Patriots like to run.  Third string QB.  So, I'll commit more guys to the run and play thinner on the back end.  Yup!  Worked fairly well.  BUT, it put too much strain on the back end.  And with Ward being out, the secondary had guys wide open.  

The IDL / MLB deficiency is just too large to cover up with a comb-over from the back end.

I've defended Stefanski but have stated that I don't care for what I consider to be over aggressive 4th down decision making.  And who knows, that could be an organizational mandate.  But he's doing what he can with what he's given to work with.  Some people wanted him to run 30 times against Bill Belichick, like that was gonna work.  Bill makes you  play to your weakness...so you better not have one.   And Stef did.  It's called, the passing game.  He's got Brissett, a career backup, who shouldn't throw when he's on the run.  

Three quarters of the DL has to be addressed.  (Clowney doesn't play enough)  Is Delpit a good enough safety?  ILB?  Hospital Ward...

This thing has to be evaluated during and after next season when they'll have their QB and have another shot at fixing the D.

...and I heard on The Fan today that the organization just hired two analysts.     

Fixing the D will largely be getting the talent that we have already accumulated and paid to play better.  The sound bites next training camp will be interesting. 

And stacking depth…guess what 2/3/4 starters will go down so either Woods or the next guy has to adapt and adjust. Quit complaining about the guys that aren’t there.  Every d@mn team deals with it. 

Aside from a play or two Ward has been part of the problem in the secondary.   5yr. 100M I know we don’t want to believe it…but it is true. 

[SdBacker80]

6 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

This ^^^^
 

I’ve mentioned it before, that we have invested lots of money and draft capital in the secondary.

The results are underwhelming, and it either boils down to talent or coaching.

Remember The guy in charge didn’t have the guys back there.  We had guys like Sendejo.   I am assuming he had input on the selections and signings that were made.  

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

19 hours ago, gumby73 said:

reminder of,

Day 1 Coach Stef.. 

Your tool  has never taken a 🏈 snap in his life 

 

 

 

 

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

19 hours ago, gumby73 said:

reminder of,

Day 1 Coach Stef.. 

Your tool  has never taken a 🏈 snap in his life 

[BrownsKidd]

13 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 I really have to ask, what did everyone else see yesterday?   Because I'm trying to understand the minds of fans more, if I can.

 I see you have an upvote, which means there is yourself and at least one other person who believed we didn't send more pressures.    Meanwhile I saw the total opposite.  We blitz'd ourselves into trouble, or blitz'd ourselves knowing it causes trouble and were willing to live with the potential trade off.  

 So I'm curious as to what lead you to feel that we didn't actually send pressure yesterday?  Was it that it didn't get home?   Or that you just genuinely didn't see the Browns call it as much as you'd like?  Which leads to another question, what percentage would make you feel comfortable on the blitz being called?

First, my post had more than just what you're quoting, so perhaps the person "upvoting" liked the portion of my post that you chose not quote. Who upvotes is really irrelevant. It's not like everyone has to vote on every post to decide if they agree or not. There could be many more that agree and like myself rarely upvote. In the end, what you believe and feel is all that matters, not some online forum mechanism that is suppose to help you feel better about a posted opinion. 

Zeppe went what 24/34. Decent game. He was only sacked twice and only 2 QB hits, in 4 quarters, against this defense that was suppose to be top in the league. Whether it be blitzs, better pressure from front 4, the poor execution of blitzs, schemes, poor tackling, poor coverage, all of it. It stinks. I will be the first to admit that if you're seeing blitz and I'm not, perhaps it's because it look like how a blitz should look because we suck at that too.  

We got picked apart by a rookie QB. Most other teams would have welcomed him to the league in a lot worse fashion. 

[Nero]

20 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 

 Ultimately this is a grudge you hold because of the Baker situation. 

 I understand your mind can never be changed until it's too late. I accept that's who you are and it is what it is. 

 

Two things. 

First. 

- I could dive into the complexity of Stef stealing motions from the Ravens, a lot like what McVay L.A. did, and incorporated that into the pin and pull scheme along with a fake read element that would blow your mind.     So this "Stef doesnt adapt" is your feeling more-so than a reality. Had the Browns won yesterday, you wouldn't have been present today let alone saying something like that.  Again, it's who you are and it's a short coming I have to deal with should I feel the desire to uncover your posts (like I did now) 

Just know, that you're demonstrably incorrect. 

 

Second 

- The Pats defense isn't "back".  They've hit a great stretch of matchups against bad offensive play and personnel that has given the impression of a return to greatness. They still lack a dominant interior player for their base 2 gaps, their corners are beatable and as we saw with your boy Dugger, when he's forced into matchups on the perimeter, he is a liability.  

I'm waiting for the right time to "buy high " when the Pats become too overvauled gambling wise when Vegas goes to capitalize on betting lines based of that articles narrative.  People will read that, believe it and wager it at the wrong time - probably against Buffalo. 

 Let people believe the days of Wilfork and Seymour are back. Good way to make money. 

 

Shit, Tia. I just put a waiver on the Pats defense vs the Bears... 

[tiamat63]

11 minutes ago, Nero said:

Shit, Tia. I just put a waiver on the Pats defense vs the Bears... 

I would too... against the Bears.  Beyond that? Play with fire at your own risk. 

[Nero]

8 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

I would too... against the Bears.  Beyond that? Play with fire at your own risk. 

Yeah, I go week to week for defenses. We are 8 friends in my FFL. 

[Flugel]

On 10/18/2022 at 1:09 AM, SdBacker80 said:

Fixing the D will largely be getting the talent that we have already accumulated and paid to play better.  The sound bites next training camp will be interesting. 

And stacking depth…guess what 2/3/4 starters will go down so either Woods or the next guy has to adapt and adjust. Quit complaining about the guys that aren’t there.  Every d@mn team deals with it. 

Aside from a play or two Ward has been part of the problem in the secondary.   5yr. 100M I know we don’t want to believe it…but it is true. 

Have we as fans overrated the talent in our secondary?  One of the most underrated things Joe Haden did here when he was on top of his game was consistently tackle people - a lot of that was because he was usually in ideal position to do so. That wasn't just in coverage. He was also very good in run support and in open fields.  Unfortunately, that all took an early toll on his body to the extent he'd try to play through injuries and his performance declined.  

Aside from your point about Ward, his durability can also be a concern given the salary committed to him. 

I DO like what I've seen from our rookie Emerson and he's not afraid to tackle people.  

[Flugel]

On 10/17/2022 at 6:38 PM, SdBacker80 said:

 

 

Yes!!!!  Bills secondary. 49ers Oline. Chargers multiple groups…list goes on and on.

Go back and look at unit rankings right around preseason time. The secondary could be the most underachieving unit in the entire NFL. 

The Bills secondary had Safety Jordan Poyer earning 1st Team All Pro honors and Safety Micha Hyde earning 2nd Team All Pro honors last year. Tra'Davious White was regarded as one of the top cover corners in the NFL before he blew out his ACL in week 11 last year.  They were a very good secondary believe it or not.  Unfortunately, they're only going to be remembered for the 13 second surgery Mahomes did on them before he pretty much rinsed and repeated the surgery in overtime.  This year Buffalo had Von Miller pressuring Mahomes into an INT to preserve their lead in the final minute or so.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Flugel

[nickers]

On 10/17/2022 at 9:03 PM, Canton Dawg said:

Have some pizza Dutch.

Judging by the box... Seems like my kind of place... I grew up on the real deal...

[nickers]

12 hours ago, Flugel said:

The Bills secondary had Safety Jordan Poyer earning 1st Team All Pro honors and Safety Micha Hyde earning 2nd Team All Pro honors last year. Tra'Davious White was regarded as one of the top cover corners in the NFL before he blew out his ACL in week 11 last year.  They were a very good secondary believe it or not.  Unfortunately, they're only going to be remembered for the 13 second surgery Mahomes did on them before he pretty much rinsed and repeated the surgery in overtime.  This year Buffalo had Von Miller pressuring Mahomes into an INT to preserve their lead in the final minute or so.

Yes!... That same Jordan Poyer that was drafted by.... You guessed it!... And let's not forget Pierre Desir.. Who I desperately wanted to keep. He carved out a nice career for himself... BAH!

[SdBacker80]

12 hours ago, Flugel said:

The Bills secondary had Safety Jordan Poyer earning 1st Team All Pro honors and Safety Micha Hyde earning 2nd Team All Pro honors last year. Tra'Davious White was regarded as one of the top cover corners in the NFL before he blew out his ACL in week 11 last year.  They were a very good secondary believe it or not.  Unfortunately, they're only going to be remembered for the 13 second surgery Mahomes did on them before he pretty much rinsed and repeated the surgery in overtime.  This year Buffalo had Von Miller pressuring Mahomes into an INT to preserve their lead in the final minute or so.

The Bills secondary is out (my point I’m making) but it is next man up.  They have rookies and street free agents 

[tiamat63]

32 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

The Bills secondary is out (my point I’m making) but it is next man up.  They have rookies and street free agents 

 

 There was something I mentioned around week... 2? maybe 3?   I was noticing A LOT of teams playing more 2 high shell.   But I noticed that Woods' calls we're overwhelmingly also out of cover 4, cover 2, cover 6, etc etc.      Even on early downs that are naturally more "running" downs.  

 Then the stats starting coming out from 2021, reduced blitz rates and more 2 high shells than ever.     The Bills in 2020 and started making sure their defensive front, the entirety of it, could rush the passer and limit the run.  The former a bit more than the latter, but let's be real, they're worried about KC and LAC who aren't strong running teams.

 Between the advent of 2 high now being the predominant coverage base, the priority on having a dominant single high safety and a pair of outstanding perimeter corners isn't quite as great when you're playing cloud.      So I mentioned that I'm expecting the focus, league wide honestly, to start shifting back to the defensive line being a priority the next 5 or so years.   Can't run light box counts and not be punished for it.     

 The Bills were just ahead of the curve.   I mean, they've invested some insane draft capital  and money there last few years.

- Oliver

- Basham

- Rousseau

- Epenesa

- Daquan Jones

- Jordan Phillips

- Shaq Lawson

- Von Miller

 

 Those boys get it done, left to right, edge to interior.  

 So if you're wondering why the Bills have been able to help minimize their injuries on the back end, they've got a great stable of dogs up front on top of the natural progression to defensive designs that don't place exaggeration on exposing their corners.   Instead of loading up on DB's and fighting fire with fire, the BUF front office said they're bringing a water truck instead.   And that philosophy is reaping early positive results.  

[Dutch Oven]

While the Browns seem to have a pathlogical resistance to using high picks on DLine since they used the #1 on Garrett, and they haven't hit on any of the mid to late DLine picks. 

[gumby73]

18 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

 

 Between the advent of 2 high now being the predominant coverage base, the priority on having a dominant single high safety and a pair of outstanding perimeter corners isn't quite as great when you're playing cloud.       

Cloud? is this a when a corner drops to play like a 3rd deep safety? 

[tiamat63]

7 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

Cloud? is this a when a corner drops to play like a 3rd deep safety? 

 Not so much bubs.  Cloud is any given flavor of cover 2 to a side of the field it's called. 

 The Jets TD bomb where Denzel said he was expecting safety help because he was playing the underneath in a cloud...?   yeah, that's what it is.

 

Edit: this 2 high shift also might help explain the front offices targeting of taller, heavier corners who can get physical being involved against the perimeter running game.  They want taller guys with wingspan harder to throw over - Newsome, Emerson. 6'1, 200lbs. 6'2, 200lbs.  Definitely a theme there. 

[Korsou Dawg]

Kurt Warner knows more than me about football. Heck, he could probably still tear us a new one to this day.

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2022/10/19/browns-kurt-warner-comments-7-22/

[Canton Dawg]

3 hours ago, Korsou Dawg said:

Kurt Warner knows more than me about football. Heck, he could probably still tear us a new one to this day.

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2022/10/19/browns-kurt-warner-comments-7-22/

Unless Stefanski does something, he could end up being Mike Pettine 2.0

[Flugel]

17 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

The Bills secondary is out (my point I’m making) but it is next man up.  They have rookies and street free agents 

Got it!  Thanks for reminding me not to speed read.