"The" 🏈 Official MNF Game Thread Browns vs Bengals Oct 31 🏈

[Orion]

So, I've sat down and went for an enjoyable look at stats on the downloaded gamebook.  (this isn't something that we get to do 'enjoyably' very often)    We ran it 40 times (disregarding Jacoby's QB sneaks and scramble for a TD) and Chubb got his hundred yards while Hunt got plenty of use through the air and ground.  D'E got to join the fun during cleanup time.  But we still passed it 22 times (disregard Cooper's pass).  And Jacoby only missed on 5 passes.

That's what this iteration of the Browns has to do to win games.

Now, early on in this thread I said that In order for us to win, the Bengals would have to beat themselves.  And Dutch touched on it during the game, Why are they not running it.  We make the worst running teams look great.    -  And, to me, that's how the Bengals beat themselves.   We struggle with Joe Nixon...and we make backups look like pro-bowlers.  I don't want to take anything away from the D's performance, because they did what they had to do in terms of covering and pressuring the QB...but the Bengals were without their star receiver and were hell bent on showing that they can beat us through the air anyway....with one arm tied behind their back.   Dumb game plan.

Takitaki lead the team in tackles and got a sack, he made a nice play on a check-down pass to the flat, he closed immediately and made a nice sure tackle.  Gotta be the best game he's ever played.

Our new MLB got a sack.   Emmerson had 9 tackles.   The team actually tackled pretty well for a change.  (Peyton picked up on that)

On offense Jacoby made his pass attempts count...and the receivers delivered with catches, even when they were very important.  Because let's face it, if you wanna be a running team...and run it 40 times...you're going to be facing 3rd downs a lot.  SOMETIMES, you're gonna half to convert them with passes...and if you can't complete the passes, then you don't get to call another running play, you have to call a punt.  And then you give guys like Joe Burrow the ball instead of playing keep-away.

IT WAS A VERY ENJOYABLE NIGHT  !!

 

[SdBacker80]

Why didn’t the Bengals run it more?

1. The game dictated their actions.  They were behind three score for two quarters. 

2. Joe Burrow vs. blown coverage plagued Browns secondary.  Where do they sign up.

3. It is not really who they are. Some of us on here tout who we are and who we aren’t.  If the Bengals were stout against run but starting street free agents at the corner spots.  I’d hope we would still have some balance with what we do best. 

[D Bone]

11 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

As a 30 something parent of kids, a lot of folks in our group did stuff over the weekend. I still went out with my kiddo, but it was markedly less than last year. Top that with people having concerns about safety and I'm left with several hundred pieces of candy. The future of trick or treating may very well be fading away.

On a side note, boy it's nice to talk about mundane crap and enjoying a Browns easy win. I'm not sure what vodoo magic Cleveland has against Cincy, but they just have their dang number lately. Even getting the odd breaks of shooter McPherson kissing kicks, etc.

Here in my high desert SoCal town I used to get 100s of little goblins and we would buy 4-5 of the huge variety bags from Costco and they would be gone by night's end.

We bought 2 bags this year and had maybe 50 total kids come by. All the kids got a large handful from me and we had just a little bit left over.

I like Halloween and interacting with the kids probably as much as they like getting candy, so I still enjoyed the kids I got last night, but I guess the good ol' days are fading fast.

 

 

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

7 hours ago, hoorta said:

But it gives me great pleasure to tell you you blew that one. Yeah- great win, but the Browns still dug themselves in a pretty deep hole losing games they should have won. 

To have a realistic shot at making the playoffs,  they still need to win two out of the next three- at least. That road trip to Buffalo is a killer. I was considering making the trip, but it seems Bills home games are a hot ticket. Checked yesterday, and on the secondary market the nosebleeds start at $250 bucks. Decent seats are $400+. 

I got ya, it's good to give each other the business.

Back to football. How puke inducing it is to know that we could easily be 6-2 right now?

Let's hope they can keep playing like this. Itnwas fun to watch this game.

[Flugel]

14 hours ago, nickers said:

I'll take Chubb over any of them... Barkley is like Denzel Ward... always hurt...

Yeah me too!  Keep in mind, Barkley was a 2nd overall pick that didn't turn the Giants into a winning team at all.  However, Chubb wasn't drafted until until the Browns selected him as their 3rd pick (which was their 2nd of two 2nd round choices).  

The Browns have already made the playoffs thanks in large to Chubb.  Not only that; but they also went from 0-16 (the year before drafting him) to 7-8-1 with him as a rookie averaging over 5 yards a carry.  Even better, he's had the 1st or 2nd best yards after initial contact in at least 3 of the 4 years he's played (possibly all 4). 

Here's what the Giants have done since drafting Barkley:  2018  5-11, 2019  4-12, 2020  6-10, 2021  4-13. Granted, he's had bad luck with injuries but I like to point this out to anyone that wants to tell us we missed out on a football messiah with him as our #1 overall pick.  Again, we've had far better luck with Chubb than the Giants have had with Barkley this far into things.

[nickers]

4 hours ago, Flugel said:

Yeah me too!  Keep in mind, Barkley was a 2nd overall pick that didn't turn the Giants into a winning team at all.  However, Chubb wasn't drafted until until the Browns selected him as their 3rd pick (which was their 2nd of two 2nd round choices).  

The Browns have already made the playoffs thanks in large to Chubb.  Not only that; but they also went from 0-16 (the year before drafting him) to 7-8-1 with him as a rookie averaging over 5 yards a carry.  Even better, he's had the 1st or 2nd best yards after initial contact in at least 3 of the 4 years he's played (possibly all 4). 

Here's what the Giants have done since drafting Barkley:  2018  5-11, 2019  4-12, 2020  6-10, 2021  4-13. Granted, he's had bad luck with injuries but I like to point this out to anyone that wants to tell us we missed out on a football messiah with him as our #1 overall pick.  Again, we've had far better luck with Chubb than the Giants have had with Barkley this far into things.

Right on!... But not only that... Chubb always says the right things at the right time... Secondly... He doesn't act like the typical show boating Ghetto Black Athlete all out for himself , which is refreshing... When he scores or does something great.. he calmly gives the ball to the ref... I believe it was Lombardi who said...... "Act like you have been there before"

[hoorta]

8 hours ago, Flugel said:

Yeah me too!  Keep in mind, Barkley was a 2nd overall pick that didn't turn the Giants into a winning team at all.  However, Chubb wasn't drafted until until the Browns selected him as their 3rd pick (which was their 2nd of two 2nd round choices).  

The Browns have already made the playoffs thanks in large to Chubb.  Not only that; but they also went from 0-16 (the year before drafting him) to 7-8-1 with him as a rookie averaging over 5 yards a carry.  Even better, he's had the 1st or 2nd best yards after initial contact in at least 3 of the 4 years he's played (possibly all 4). 

Here's what the Giants have done since drafting Barkley:  2018  5-11, 2019  4-12, 2020  6-10, 2021  4-13. Granted, he's had bad luck with injuries but I like to point this out to anyone that wants to tell us we missed out on a football messiah with him as our #1 overall pick.  Again, we've had far better luck with Chubb than the Giants have had with Barkley this far into things.

I should comment that I'm old enough to have seen Jim Brown play.  Nick is comes the closest to his style of running. He's already #4 all time Browns rushing, has a pretty good shot at passing Mike Pruitt this year, and Leroy Kelly next season to move up to #2. 

After that, it's a matter if he can stay healthy enough to move into all time elite status. He takes a lot of punishment the way he runs.

[Neo]

21 minutes ago, hoorta said:

I should comment that I'm old enough to have seen Jim Brown play.  Nick is comes the closest to his style of running. He's already #4 all time Browns rushing, has a pretty good shot at passing Mike Pruitt this year, and Leroy Kelly next season to move up to #2. 

After that, it's a matter if he can stay healthy enough to move into all time elite status. He takes a lot of punishment the way he runs.

But he does have a lot of downtime. That's what's good on have two backs that could be featured backs for 95% of NFL teams. I am so stoked that Kareem is still here. PAY THE MAN!

[tiamat63]

Early thoughts.

 

- Emerson is playing well.   But I've noticed the occasional mental lapse here and there, not only from him, but our corners in general.  And it usually involves if we're playing some type of cloud to one side of the field or not.   That very first play, the swing to Mixon for a quick 9 yards, that bust is on Em.  He's the flat defender in cover 2 to the boundary.  Instead he's stemming upfield with the receiver, giving Burrow a pitch and catch look.   These corners need to get their calls right and make them 2nd nature when we play split field coverages.  Because Newsome is playing is assignment correctly on the other side.    For those of you upset with John Johnson starting the Ravens game and questioning his effort, he was barking at the rookie early on this one.  And I get him being upset, he should be.  Sometimes tough love is needed.  I also get why he gets pissed, like when I see JoK overrun a gap/power and take the wrong hole, leaving JJ3 in a bad situation.  You don't want to make your living as a safety having to come downhill to tackle every single play.   Very few DB's lived that way - Lynch, Kam, Dawk, Troy...   it's a nasty business and your body takes punishment.     All that said, I'm still very pleased with Martin's play this season.  He's been beyond what I expected (so far)

 

- Deion Jones.  He isn't twice as good as Jacob Phillips, but at least he doesn't look completely lost either.   The difference when JP isn't out there is noticeable. 

- Taki had a damn good game. I wonder what the chances of him moving onto the green dot could be at some point? Just makes sense given his tenure and familiarity with the defense compared to all the other LB's.  And I really miss having a MIKE with a bit more downhill tackling prowess.

- Myles almost single-handedly took this game over.

- It's clear the respect the Browns coaches have for Jamarr Chase, his abilities and his connection with Joey Buckets.   Early and often, Woods would call up coverages to shrink and crowd the field between the hashes and force the Bengals receivers to win outside and vertical.    I doubt anybody is so bold when that kid is 100%

-  Still a couple serious miscommunications between Delpit and our linebackers.  The biggest of them being on who carries a seam in our cover 3.  A trend I'm picking up on is simple motions to confuse assignment, then letting the Y just push vertical and bend the route as needed.   We're very lucky the pass rush was on point and Burrow misread a few times.  Because the yards were there for the taking.   I'm also aware the Bengals are a team that doesn't give volume targets to their TE's.  They work the perimeter and the receivers, Jamar, Tyler and Higgins are all 500 yards +.   Hayden Hurst is 265yards.   So I get it, but CIN missed some great opportunities here.    Either way, this team is still vulnerable there.

- Bengals Oline gets zero push in their gap and power game.  Like... it's bad.     Not only are they a pass heavy team, they just suck at running the ball.  Period.    I'm hoping this hasn't lured the front office into a false sense of security about the status of the Browns IDL.  They're still not good.   It's my hope Tyeler Davinson comes in and gives this group a bit of a boost.

 

- Browns 2 high shells really made life difficult for CIN getting their quick passing game in rhythm.  Since they don't have much of a running game, that quick pass becomes the extension of the handoff.   Has to be pretty frustrating being Joe Mixon.  As a result, the corners can play super aggressive on any first break from our cover 2 looks.   The only real answer is to the run the ball, but that's a question the Bengals can't seem to grasp.  

 

 

 That's really what the game boiled down too.  The offense did a great job taking body shots at the Bengals defense and going shot for shot on turnovers.   The Browns  did a great job playing to their calls, calls that aren't a good matchup for Cincy - on their IDL and their IOL.     Toss in some intensity on the pass rush and tackling...   home Dub Halloween weekend.  

 

 

 

[Dutch Oven]

3 hours ago, Neo said:

But he does have a lot of downtime. That's what's good on have two backs that could be featured backs for 95% of NFL teams. I am so stoked that Kareem is still here. PAY THE MAN!

You have big contracts for Watson, Garrett, Ward and Chubb. There's some OLinemen making good money, along with Njoku. 

Thanks for the effort Kareem, it's been fun watching you, good luck next year wherever you end up. 

[Orion]

4 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

I'm hoping this hasn't lured the front office into a false sense of security about the status of the Browns IDL.  They're still not good.

What I've noticed in off seasons is that Berry seems to address what we see as problems.  I feel pretty confident that he's got IDL at the top of his list.

...and your guy, Winfrey, didn't even get to dress.  

[tiamat63]

9 hours ago, Orion said:

What I've noticed in off seasons is that Berry seems to address what we see as problems.  I feel pretty confident that he's got IDL at the top of his list.

...and your guy, Winfrey, didn't even get to dress.  

 I'd love to know how I saw IDL as a problem this season and he didn't then.  

 As for Winfrey, I have no idea what's going on there. 

[Orion]

1 minute ago, tiamat63 said:

 I'd love to know how I saw IDL as a problem this season and he didn't then.  

 

Yes, we were concerned with the IDL...But apparently he/they were thinking that the guys they drafted were ready to step up and fill the roles.  Now, it's become apparent that they are not up to the task.  

[Flugel]

1 minute ago, tiamat63 said:

 I'd love to know how I saw IDL as a problem this season and he didn't then.  

 As for Winfrey, I have no idea what's going on there. 

Again, knowing how important our 2 OGs are to the success of our offense - I'm kind of surprised he doesn't seem to see similar importance to the DT position.

I can't really complain about how Emerson has worked out at #68 overall (our 1st pick of the draft).  I wish all our DBs and some of our LBers tackled like he does. Unfortunately, it meant the guy that seemed to be projecting to our draft slot (DT Travis Jones) would end up going to the Rats at #76 overall.  Then, we reached on DE Alex Wright at #78 overall (look at the difference in quality between #76 overall and #78 overall).  Then we had another good pick at #99 overall with Purdue's very productive WR David Bell to close out our 3rd round.

Then came round 4 and a DT talent like Perrion Winfrey was still available at #108 overall. At the time, I thought this was a grand theft for us.  I was WRONG!  Why would a talent like this still be available if there weren't red flags?  Seems like these red flags have unfolded, which means we didn't address the position at all after further review.   

I think Joe Burrow was the most sacked QB in the league last year despite how well they finished.  It was good for this team to have the same type of match-up they had with Cincy last year.  Our defense turned that game around on a pick 6 from Ward and the Browns ended up scoring 41 points to Cincy's 16 in that matchup.  The rematch was closer later in the year 21-16 with the Browns completing the sweep.  The scores reflect our defense easily found the advantage and maintained it.  

Let's hope we can keep doing this to other opponents.

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

Yes, we were concerned with the IDL...But apparently he/they were thinking that the guys they drafted were ready to step up and fill the roles.  Now, it's become apparent that they are not up to the task.  

 This is, and has always been, my concern with organizations of any kind.  Tends to be a lot of 'group think' and evaluating situations for what we want, not so much what they are.    This is why, while I was unbelievably pissed, I knew *Ichigan could be tOSU last year. 

 

42 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Again, knowing how important our 2 OGs are to the success of our offense - I'm kind of surprised he doesn't seem to see similar importance to the DT position.

I can't really complain about how Emerson has worked out at #68 overall (our 1st pick of the draft).  I wish all our DBs and some of our LBers tackled like he does. Unfortunately, it meant the guy that seemed to be projecting to our draft slot (DT Travis Jones) would end up going to the Rats at #76 overall.  Then, we reached on DE Alex Wright at #78 overall (look at the difference in quality between #76 overall and #78 overall).  Then we had another good pick at #99 overall with Purdue's very productive WR David Bell to close out our 3rd round.

Then came round 4 and a DT talent like Perrion Winfrey was still available at #108 overall. At the time, I thought this was a grand theft for us.  I was WRONG!  Why would a talent like this still be available if there weren't red flags?  Seems like these red flags have unfolded, which means we didn't address the position at all after further review.   

I think Joe Burrow was the most sacked QB in the league last year despite how well they finished.  It was good for this team to have the same type of match-up they had with Cincy last year.  Our defense turned that game around on a pick 6 from Ward and the Browns ended up scoring 41 points to Cincy's 16 in that matchup.  The rematch was closer later in the year 21-16 with the Browns completing the sweep.  The scores reflect our defense easily found the advantage and maintained it.  

Let's hope we can keep doing this to other opponents.

 I'm stuck between wanting current improvement, but looking ahead as well. 

 Emerson is playing like the best on-ball DB we have.  His wingspan really is a weapon.  And if he keeps this up, he could be one of the most underrated corners in the NFL within a year or two.     But then I also look at the dire need we could have filled with the talent that Travis Jones would have brought to the table day 1. 

 The Ravens have built their defense strangely similar to what the Bears did a few years ago, and almost reminds me of those Vikings teams from the early to mid 2000s.  Beef in the middle and speed at LB.

 I truly believe Jones would have helped us to beat ATL, meaning this team would be .500 and having a much better outlook on possibly being wildcard bound. We also wouldn't struggle with inferior teams that lack QB talent.  HOU being just ahead is a great example.   Pierce is a young monster who could run right through this defense, meaning the Texans can protect Mills from the turnover machine he tends to be.  

 That's where a CB just can't help you. 

 

 So it's between wanting to answer for this current season, but also wanting to look ahead on how that answer might sound next season. 

[SdBacker80]

Anyone concerned that we gave 100M to a small corner with legitimate concussion concerns now? 
 

 

[SdBacker80]

4 hours ago, Orion said:

Yes, we were concerned with the IDL...But apparently he/they were thinking that the guys they drafted were ready to step up and fill the roles.  Now, it's become apparent that they are not up to the task.  

The concern is magnified because we are weak at all three levels up the middle.   We can’t go into next training camp confident if we have Johnson and Delpit in the back Philips and another stop gap again at Mike. 

[SdBacker80]

16 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

You have big contracts for Watson, Garrett, Ward and Chubb. There's some OLinemen making good money, along with Njoku. 

Thanks for the effort Kareem, it's been fun watching you, good luck next year wherever you end up. 

It is beginning to look that way and I feel better about that given that we aren’t starting 2023 with a game manager type QB.  
 

If you want to run the ball 40 times- Hunt is not a luxury he’s a necessity 

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

Anyone concerned that we gave 100M to a small corner with legitimate concussion concerns now? 
 

 

Absolutely!   Last time I saw someone that talented and fragile he was Made in China and stayed on sidelines.  Yao Ming

[Ibleedbrown]

I just wanna say l love beating the Bengals.

[Neo]

12 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

It is beginning to look that way and I feel better about that given that we aren’t starting 2023 with a game manager type QB.  
 

If you want to run the ball 40 times- Hunt is not a luxury he’s a necessity 

I can understand why Hunt is still on the roster, you just don't give that kind of talent away for a 4th round pick. Even if there is a log jam at RB , Kareem is a game changing back.

[syd]

On 11/2/2022 at 6:50 PM, Orion said:

What I've noticed in off seasons is that Berry seems to address what we see as problems.  I feel pretty confident that he's got IDL at the top of his list.

...and your guy, Winfrey, didn't even get to dress.  

winfrey maybe next year a light bulb go's on  speaking of next year Emerson is playing well above his 3rd round draft pick maybe trade ward away ?

[Orion]

3 hours ago, syd said:

maybe trade ward away ?

With the number of concussions he's had I think he should retire.....before he screws up his later years of life.

[mjp28]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

With the number of concussions he's had I think he should retire.....before he screws up his later years of life.

Better to retire when you  need  to rather than too  late   and live to regret it.   These guys all make decent money now that if they're  smart  enough to save  especially if they hit that rather generous NFL pension should be financially alright.   

Nothing sadder than another Ken Stabler, Junior Seau  among many,  many others. 

[syd]

2 hours ago, Orion said:

With the number of concussions he's had I think he should retire.....before he screws up his later years of life.

well then let him retire with another team

[Orion]

2 hours ago, syd said:

well then let him retire with another team

I'm assuming that we don't get any compensatory picks if a guy retires.