tiamat63 Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 On 1/10/2023 at 2:04 PM, Korsou Dawg said: Would definitely like to see our second rounder spent on this position, and probably another late rounder for depth though. A couple things. 1st) A lot of the injury concern at our linebacker spots is a two fold problem. Lack of size + too much direct contact. You can't have 215LB backers taking on clean leads and guards 17 games without health problems. I was a broken record at week 6, at this point the beaten and dead horse has decayed into a skeleton. My dad and my grandpa were excavators, earth movers, by trait. That was their family business and I grew up around it. Can't begin to tell you how many times as a kid I'd listen to them talk to people who were building a home that were more versed and focused on the furniture they were going to buy, as opposed to the foundation said home was built on. It wasn't sexy, it wasn't what they cared for. To them, it was all just the same dull dirt. Only I knew (know) that the wrong foundation means you'd be calling by Dad and Grandpa back in 10 years if it wasn't handled correctly. I parallel that with the state of how the Browns front office has let this IDL decay over the past 2 seasons. Anything directly over the ball, IOL, IDL and QB, has a ripple effect on every other level of the offense/defense. While they worked to address the secondary and QB spots, the balance of talent along the defensive line swung so far in the opposite direction that you've now fucked your team in a whole new manner. 2nd) This was by no means a shock to myself, but I'm hoping my story on foundation, plus this next bit of information, puts things into proper perspective for a good amount of the posters here on just how dire the Browns defensive line state is. With the exception of Zach Carter for the Bengals... every single 2nd and 3rd string IDL in the AFCN had a higher season grade than the Browns starters. That's not a typo. Every single backup player, except one, played better than the Browns IDL starters for the 2022 season. I checked every single players grade over 2 different grading services myself, the numbers are accurate. If the Browns bring in Schwartz or Flores, I admit it's an upgrade over Woods from a coaching perspective. However if there isn't significant resources invested into the defensive line... multiple draft picks and somehow god willing, a cheap and effective vet in FA, then we'll be right back where we were next season asking our offense to win shootouts, not getting our pass rushers more snaps to attack the QB, and exposing our secondary in ways that is unnecessary week in and week out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 23 minutes ago, tiamat63 said: If the Browns bring in Schwartz or Flores, I admit it's an upgrade over Woods from a coaching perspective. However if there isn't significant resources invested into the defensive line... multiple draft picks and somehow god willing, a cheap and effective vet in FA, then we'll be right back where we were next season asking our offense to win shootouts, not getting our pass rushers more snaps to attack the QB, and exposing our secondary in ways that is unnecessary week in and week out. Yes. The Browns have to invest heavily on the DLine this offseason, including bringing in a legit, longterm DE to pair with Myles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 47 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said: Yes. The Browns have to invest heavily on the DLine this offseason, including bringing in a legit, longterm DE to pair with Myles. Quick thoughts on that. I'm going to disagree with a 'longterm' DE to bring in. Because, unless they're prepared to look in the mirror, the front office likely believes that's going to be Alex Wright. Similar to what happened with Tommy Togiai and Jordan Elliot last season, Berry and Depo believe that their picks are gold, will grow into roles and that if they don't produce, it just HAS to be the coaches fault. At least, that's my concern. Isiah Thomas on the other hand did have some decent minutes, so I have little doubt he'll be retained. I think he provides quality depth. Wino should never be a starting edge, but as a DPR and special teams player he can make this team. Which means you're looking at a mid to late round edge. I wouldn't even be mad if this entire upcoming draft was IDL, LB, Edge depth and maybe another look around at late OT. That's for my projection on the front office. For my own personal philosophy, I'm concerned less with the edge rush now and more with building what I call a 'complete rush'. The Rams with Donald and Von, Steelers with TJ and Cam, Bosa and Armstead in San Fran... you get my point. I want edge rush AND interior push. This organization has placed too much focus outside and not enough inside. We can't limit the run, we can't re-establish the LOS on the interior, we can't move guards and centers. This really came to a head against Bailey Zappe and the Pats. Because of our inability to stop the run, the Patriots were able to structure their offensive formations in such a way that they essentially were able to dictate how Clowney and Myles were sent upfield being forced to constantly bend wide corners on slide protects. The fact the man had a single sack in that game is a testament to his talent and hustle. We need interior players and Elliot, Togiai and Taven are all expendable. I have hopes that Perrion can grow into that 3tech which helps balance this pass rush, but the kid has also been a bit of a head case his rookie year. Which is why I mentioned a couple IDL picks and a Vet. You literally need a completely revamped interior, so that's 3 spots up for grabs. I'd also like to take this moment to mention that Andrew Billings had a hell of a year for the Raiders. So that makes things sting just a bit more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted January 12, 2023 Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 1 hour ago, tiamat63 said: A lot of the injury concern at our linebacker spots is a two fold problem. Lack of size + too much direct contact. You can't have 215LB backers taking on clean leads and guards 17 games without health problems. When these LB'ers were being drafted is when we learned the new team objective...speed and agility. And some of us pointed out that that's fine, as long as they can hold up against the run. And they couldn't. And it might've worked if we had big fat DT's. I think Stef & Berry figured that in today's NFL you don't really have to worry too much about the run, get fast, agile guys and cover receivers because it's a passing league. It was a concept. But it turned out that the worst running teams in the league were killin' us. Now, I'm assuming that they learned from this. And will be a better HC & GM going forward. (I hope) What I do know is that they're smart guys, they're on the same page, and they get along. This is a rare combination for our organization. I've disliked many of our HC's and GM's this century and felt like the right thing to do was bite the bullet and blow it up and start all over. The bullet being the fact that you're taking a big step backwards in hopes of eventually taking steps forward. The new team is going to want to bring in 'their' players. So the players we have are not 'their players'. Firing & hiring HC, GM etc. keeps you from continuity. But of course, continuity for continuity's sake is pointless (like the amount of time Hue was given). You've gotta have good guys first and foremost. And I think our two guys (HC & GM) are good enough to invest continuity in. Keep in mind, no human is perfect. We're not going to like every decision 'anyone' makes....but we no longer have a Bill-Hilly wearing stupid Tee Shirts at a microphone. We don't have Pettine and Farmer throwing shoes at each other. Our HC & GM are not embarrassing us by saying what they think. We have a couple of smart guys, doing and learning. I'd rather not throw away what these smart guys have learned and start again. I'd rather keep them and the continuity that we finally have a little of. --- 4th down. I was thinking about the current trend across the league of doing stupid shit on 4th down. (it's not just our guy. some of the 4th down antics make our guy look traditional) I remember watching our games years ago when nobody went for it on 4th down. And I remember the back of my mind thinking, thank God everyone punts on 4th and 1 or 2 because our D is so bad, or because their O is so good, odds are quite good that they'd get the 1st down against us every time. Well, now, they've caught on to the back of my mind. (the back of my mind is smarter than I am.........I always used to say, Why do we have to take the flag out of the hole when we're putting on the green? If I'm putting from 1 inch off the green it's perfectly fine for the ball to go in the hole with the flag there...if I'm off the green anywhere on the course it's ok....the pandemic happens and viola! we can keep the flag in the hole...brilliant!) Sorry, tangent. I think the pendulum has swung back too far....as it always does. I don't like taking points off the board to bring up a 4th and 4 from the 4th and 9 that it was when the FG was made. I don't like going for it on our own side of the field. But that's the current trend. And if you're not doing that stuff right now, you're the oddball. We're not going to like every play call a HC makes or every move a GM makes. There's no need to nit-pick a HC and/or GM away. Of course, there IS one major item on the table...and that's Watson. A lot has been invested in the decision to acquire him. That's not a nit-pick. That's going to have to be a successful thing....and we'll find that out next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted January 12, 2023 Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 2 hours ago, tiamat63 said: Berry and Depo believe that their picks are gold You got that right….Anthony Schwartz comes to mind. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 12, 2023 Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 13 hours ago, Dutch Oven said: Yes. The Browns have to invest heavily on the DLine this offseason, including bringing in a legit, longterm DE to pair with Myles. They needed to last year (and everyone knew it except our FO), who informed people they don't believe in paying big $ to IDL. Hopefully, they Coyote Uglied that thought right out of existence. I brought up DT Travis Jones in my 3rd round wish list numerous times pre-draft; but he went 2 slots before we made our 2nd third round pick. After seeing Emerson become a bright spot in our secondary I should probably just be thankful we got 1 right. In the next round I thought we were getting a steal with Winfrey; and that still has a chance of unfolding if Nurse Ratched keeps him compliant with his meds. I love your idea about DE especially after seeing how often Clowney's heart just wasn't into it here. The only problem is 31 other teams need another edge rusher for the long haul. My guess is Cleveland might not be the most appealing place; but I'll be happy to be wrong about that. When I look at the wear and tear of DE/OLB edge rushers - the 1st thing I think of is how often a guy like Joey Bosa isn't available on game day due to injuries. I think his brother Nick missed most of his 2nd season to injury as well. Chase Young has missed a lot of football too. This year TJ Watt missed a couple months while Buffalo's biggest off-season acquisition Von Miller went on IR halfway through the season. 17 games of crash test dummy when the Commissioner that allegedly cares so much about player safety has guys playing late Sunday afternoon/evening only to put them back out there on the following Thursday. At least we have a 2nd round pick this year so we should be able to select a DT or DE that can help us immediately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korsou Dawg Posted January 12, 2023 Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 18 hours ago, tiamat63 said: That's for my projection on the front office. For my own personal philosophy, I'm concerned less with the edge rush now and more with building what I call a 'complete rush'. The Rams with Donald and Von, Steelers with TJ and Cam, Bosa and Armstead in San Fran... you get my point. I want edge rush AND interior push. Yes, please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 On 1/11/2023 at 5:15 AM, gumby73 said: I'd prefer to not let your two lead-off hitters walk out the building... Albert Breer @AlbertBreer · Follow Sources: The Browns will interview Tennessee's Jim Schwartz tomorrow,(Wednesday) and Pittsburgh's Brian Flores on Thursday for their defensive coordinator job, per sources. (Cleveland still working out timing with NE's Jerod Mayo and Seattle's Sean Desai.) 8:32 PM · Jan 10, 2023 Tony Grossi @TonyGrossi · Follow Browns DC candidate Jerod Mayo is in talks for a long-term contract with Patriots. With Sean Desai, another candidate, ensconced in a wild card game with Seattle. I don't know why Kevin Stefanski wouldn't choose between Brian Flores and Jim Schwartz and get a deal done. (oh really?) 9:02 PM · Jan 12, 2023 Cough/Cough/Belch.. 💩 Dear, my fandom 3 dumb ______'s ... Jimmy Has-Been..Dingle Berry.. De-Pud-Puller Let's do some simple anal math.. 1. Five teams need a new Head Coach.... along comes Staff's (including DC) 2. Browns & Atlanta need a DC Who's to believe either of the Top 2 DC's (w/HC'ing backgrounds) will return for this job? Surely not Stef..(he's next season's fall guy) Should have paid a man Jimmy... 🙄 ... it could be another 4th & long (shot) at this DC job 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 14, 2023 Report Share Posted January 14, 2023 Berry's next move, is to interview a Eagles candidate..(shocker) Eagles Dennard Wilson has a free Saturday. https://www.brownszone.com/2023/01/13/eagles-defensive-passing-game-coordinator-dennard-wilson-scheduled-to-interview-saturday-for-defensive-coordinator-job/ I had a thought/like, that Vic Fangio would get on Berry's interview list? Nah, According to ESPN insider Adam Schefter, when he returns to the NFL head-coaching ranks, Payton is eyeing Vic Fangio as his defensive coordinator. Sean Payton is so interested in returning to coaching in the NFL that he's already putting together an all-star staff that includes former Denver Broncos head coach Vic Fangio as his potential defensive coordinator, league sources told ESPN. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted January 14, 2023 Report Share Posted January 14, 2023 You have to wonder how appealing the Browns DC job is, considering many people might consider Stefanski a lame-duck head coach who most likely is on a very warm seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted January 14, 2023 Report Share Posted January 14, 2023 Before the playoffs are over [tomorrow for them] - I'm ruling out the DC of Minnesota. He'll be available because he found a way to be worse than Joe Woods.. and he needs to remain "available." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 14, 2023 Report Share Posted January 14, 2023 38 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said: Before the playoffs are over [tomorrow for them] - I'm ruling out the DC of Minnesota. He'll be available because he found a way to be worse than Joe Woods.. and he needs to remain "available." I admit, I've only watched the two games of the Vikes this year - but holy hell, were they bad. The glaring thing to me was their zone rotations/replacements, or lack of. I felt like there was absolutely ZERO communication between their DB's and LB's, especially in that Colts game. So yeah, you have found a literally shit treasure chest with that coaching staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Seahawks’ loss in the Wild Card round could be the Browns’ gain. With Seattle losing 41-23 to the 49ers on Saturday, the Browns were able to line up Sean Desai, associate head coach and defensive assistant, to interview for their defensive coordinator vacancy on Monday, a league source told cleveland.com. He’ll fly to Cleveland today and interview at Browns headquarters on Monday. Desai, 39, was Pete Carroll’s righthand man in Seattle this season after serving as the Bears’ defensive coordinator in 2021. Desai is one of four candidates to replace Joe Woods, and the fourth to interview. The others are Titans senior defensive assistant Jim Schwartz, Steelers senior defensive assistant Brian Flores, and Eagles passing game coordinator Dennard Wilson. All four are still in the mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 17, 2023 Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 On 1/15/2023 at 6:46 PM, Dutch Oven said: Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com Desai is one of four candidates to replace Joe Woods, and the fourth to interview. 6 playoff teams left (can't interview/what's the odds of staff changes, but promoted HC's) Zona hired a GM that interviewed here vs. Berry Carolina has Sean Peyton interviewing today (Steve Wilks was open to interview.. Interviewed in Carolina for HC/pending) Colts? Denver? Atlanta searching a DC All four are still in the mix. My Preference. 1) Jim Schwartz ( Hire this guy ! ) 2) Brian Flores (reports 2023 HC) 3) Dennard Wilson (I know nothing about/ and who's he staffing as a DC?) 4)Sean Desai.. May attract FA Poona Ford? but yikes ! 1.) Are we waiting on Steve Wilks or Brian Flores to get a Head Coaching job? 2.) A Playoff Team coach to interview? Jim Schwartz has had no interest/interviews since in Cleveland 🤔 Planting my Camp Hire Jim Schwartz flag here 🏴☠️ Please Hold 📞 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7moses7 Posted January 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 So Desai isn’t any better than Woods, a prime candidate for Dingle Berry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 17, 2023 Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 30 minutes ago, 7moses7 said: So Desai isn’t any better than Woods, a prime candidate for Dingle Berry. Last I knew, Clint Hurtt was listed as the DC in Seattle while Desai was listed as the Associate Defensive Head Coach. He joined Seattle in 2022 after spending his first 9 years with the Bears (and serving as their Defensive Coordinator up through the 2021 season). The Bears were 6-11 his last year there; but keep in mind HC Matt Nagy was in the process of making life difficult on a very promising 1st round QB prospect (Justin Fields). It's hard to tell how good Desai was doing there in spite of all that on the defensive side. Who knows how many 3 and outs, turnovers or short fields they had to make the best of... If they still don't think IDL/DTs should be more of a priority than they made it last year - maybe they should hire David Copperfield... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted January 17, 2023 Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 3 hours ago, Flugel said: If they still don't think IDL/DTs should be more of a priority than they made it last year - maybe they should hire David Copperfield... 😂🤣 Poetic gold Flugs! 🤣😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 18, 2023 Report Share Posted January 18, 2023 23 hours ago, gumby73 said: My Preference. 1) Jim Schwartz ( Hire this guy ! ) Planting my Camp Hire Jim Schwartz flag here 🏴☠️ Please Hold 📞 " HIRE Jimmy Schwartz ! " Camp Closed 🏕️ Good hire & Well Done AB ! #LFG ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted January 18, 2023 Report Share Posted January 18, 2023 Now its time to start concentrating on getting the Browns DLine better via the draft and free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 18, 2023 Report Share Posted January 18, 2023 56 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said: Now its time to start concentrating on getting the Browns DLine better via the draft and free agency. Find the Money 💰 roll Tide How? Can't pay LB Deion Jones at 14M.. Can we roll with... Walker/Ragland/Taki & JOK ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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