Jim Schwartz new DC

[ballpeen]

11 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'd love to know who on here was celebrating the night the Browns drafted Manziel. 

I have some suspicions. 😏

I can fess up.  I was good with the selection, thought I wouldn't call it celebrating.  I thought he was going to be a good QB.  What I didn't know at the time was the guy was a total egghead.

[tiamat63]

12 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'd love to know who on here was celebrating the night the Browns drafted Manziel. 

I have some suspicions. 😏

I wonder if I'm still banned from Smokey Bones? I'm sure they've forgiven my drunken rant by now.  

[nickers]

1 hour ago, ballpeen said:

I can fess up.  I was good with the selection, thought I wouldn't call it celebrating.  I thought he was going to be a good QB.  What I didn't know at the time was the guy was a total egghead.

I was right with you on that assessment.. I mean he had a good arm.. But the neurons and dendrites between his ears are/were his biggest enemy... Even his own father basically came out and said he was a jerk off...

[Dutch Oven]

Manziel's own father - BEFORE THE DRAFT - was on record that his son "drank to self-medicate". 

I'm sure there were other team's War Rooms erupting in laughter when the Browns turned in that card. 

[Dutch Oven]

11 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

I wonder if I'm still banned from Smokey Bones? I'm sure they've forgiven my drunken rant by now.  

Mentor?

[tiamat63]

13 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Mentor?

Si.  That's spanish for 'yes'.

I'm sophisticated like that.  

[Orion]

11 hours ago, ballpeen said:

What I didn't know at the time was the guy was a total egghead.

We didn't know the level of non effort he gave to x's & o's or any kind of film/playbook study.  Or his immature party boy addiction.  That aside, I didn't want him because he was short.  I always want a tall drink-o-water at QB...every time we have to draft one.  

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

We didn't know the level of non effort he gave to x's & o's or any kind of film/playbook study.  Or his immature party boy addiction.  That aside, I didn't want him because he was short.  I always want a tall drink-o-water at QB...every time we have to draft one.  

 While they're made for more of an entertainment purpose, there was some pretty solid evidence to the lack of Johnny's understanding what was happening in front of him in the form of Gruden's QB camp.    I remember watching the A&M Bowl game against Duke and seeing just how slow he was at understanding the buzz safety dropping from the field, but when he got a much more simple look like the boundary DB inverting or not throwing a bracket on Mike Evans, he basically chucked up a 50/50 ball to Mike.  

 Back to the Gruden Camp... there was a segment I specifically remember where Johnny got a clear out with an under break in his heisman year, then got the same look on a similar play in the redzone the year after and he forced the ball downfield into coverage both times.  With Gruden responding "throw the damn under and move on"...     

 Sure, it was for sports entertainment, but that simple play really spoke to me about what I had seen during the Duke game - a complete lack of growth.   Now growth from lack of ability or lack of effort wasn't clear, but spotlighting NO growth is the important thing, reasons be damned unless they were coaching.  

[Orion]

21 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

there was some pretty solid evidence to the lack of Johnny's understanding what was happening in front of him in the form of Gruden's QB camp.

Not for nothin' but didn't our guys get him up on the white board during their interview?  Bonehead Pettine couldn't figure out that this kid didn't know jack about defenses?  

And that kid's game was leaving the pocket and getting into space behind the LOS where a LB'er gets put in no-mans-land, between Manziel and a receiver of some sort.  Else someone gets open downfield for a long heave.  Or he runs.  His game was not an in-the-pocket game.  He didn't understand defenses.  He had to get out of the pocket where things turn back to sandlot.  

I truly hated that Pettine Farmer era.  Two dopes.  

I'll never forget, last play of the half, in Atlanta, Pettine sends out the kicker for a 67 yard FG attempt.  Devon Hester is standing at the goal line.  And I'm like, NOOooo, what are you doing?!?  The ball is snapped, Billy Cundiff (I think it was him...maybe) kicks it and Hester catches it on the goal line....but wait, the Atlanta HC called TO to ice the kicker.  I'm like, Whew!!  That was close!  Thank you dopey Atlanta HC!!    But wait, it can't be, Pettine is sending the kicker back onto the field.  I'm like, You gotta be kiddin' me!!!   Well, the same thing happens...except this time Devon Hester runs with it.  Remember, a FG is not like a punt.  Everybody's blocking to keep the FG from being bocked, so Hester's got nobody anywhere near him as he's running the thing back for a TD.  But at the last second, he had to Zig...and Bitonio, who later said, I just kept running...well he Zigged right into Bitonio's freight train running down the track...and the TD was averted...at the last second.

We've had some of the dumbest effin' coaches!  And now, we have a coach of the year, and some people want him gone.  

[syd]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

And now, we have a coach of the year, and some people want him gone.  

Super Bowl baby,,,,,,,, it's gonna happen

[nickers]

1 hour ago, syd said:

Super Bowl baby,,,,,,,, it's gonna happen

Not in our lifetime...

[nickers]

2 hours ago, Orion said:

Not for nothin' but didn't our guys get him up on the white board during their interview?  Bonehead Pettine couldn't figure out that this kid didn't know jack about defenses?  

And that kid's game was leaving the pocket and getting into space behind the LOS where a LB'er gets put in no-mans-land, between Manziel and a receiver of some sort.  Else someone gets open downfield for a long heave.  Or he runs.  His game was not an in-the-pocket game.  He didn't understand defenses.  He had to get out of the pocket where things turn back to sandlot.  

I truly hated that Pettine Farmer era.  Two dopes.  

I'll never forget, last play of the half, in Atlanta, Pettine sends out the kicker for a 67 yard FG attempt.  Devon Hester is standing at the goal line.  And I'm like, NOOooo, what are you doing?!?  The ball is snapped, Billy Cundiff (I think it was him...maybe) kicks it and Hester catches it on the goal line....but wait, the Atlanta HC called TO to ice the kicker.  I'm like, Whew!!  That was close!  Thank you dopey Atlanta HC!!    But wait, it can't be, Pettine is sending the kicker back onto the field.  I'm like, You gotta be kiddin' me!!!   Well, the same thing happens...except this time Devon Hester runs with it.  Remember, a FG is not like a punt.  Everybody's blocking to keep the FG from being bocked, so Hester's got nobody anywhere near him as he's running the thing back for a TD.  But at the last second, he had to Zig...and Bitonio, who later said, I just kept running...well he Zigged right into Bitonio's freight train running down the track...and the TD was averted...at the last second.

We've had some of the dumbest effin' coaches!  And now, we have a coach of the year, and some people want him gone.  

Kevvy is a pussy.. The teams plays like a bunch of pussies too... We were lucky in a Covid year.. Nothing more...

[syd]

11 minutes ago, nickers said:

Kevvy is a pussy.. The teams plays like a bunch of pussies too... We were lucky in a Covid year.. Nothing more...

calm down

[Korsou Dawg]

Coach's job is clearly on the line. They assembled a 'no excuses' staff for him. One of, if not the best in the league. A staff that includes a former HC in Schwartz, and a coordinator on a trajectory to become HC in Bubba. His potential replacements are already on board. Let's see how he performs under that kind of pressure. 

[ballpeen]

I'd say after 6 games and again at 10 Stefanski is under the microscope.  Being at .500 at those points might get him canned.  Being under probably will.

 

I say this prefaced assuming we haven't had significant injuries to key players.  I mean several guys like Chubb, Watson, Garrett, and Ward miss multiple games.

 

Well, scratch Hospital Ward.  We know he is going to miss multiple games.

[tiamat63]

11 hours ago, Orion said:

Not for nothin' but didn't our guys get him up on the white board during their interview?  Bonehead Pettine couldn't figure out that this kid didn't know jack about defenses?  

 

 

 

 I could get an interview and white board with a lot of professional coaches.  The language will be different, but I'll understand everything they say and vice versa.  White boarding is good for two things - diagraming and delivering education, and understanding the sort of things players have and have not been exposed to.  

 I've little doubt Johnny could be in a QB room and pass off a bit of what he knew. 

 The problem is, you now have to take that X's and O's knowledge, then diagnose, process and execute in real time on the field.  Which is 8th level Mario bros.  Could I do that a pro level?  Fuuuuuuck no.  Then again, seeing Bryce Young check in shorter than myself might have me rethink that 😂

 

 Processing speed is crucial.  It can be developed and increased through knowledge of the game, mental/physical preperation and situational awareness.  But if you don't display consistent fundamentals of that ability at the collegiate level (Johnny did NOT, contrary to popular belief) then the chances you magically develop that in reasonable time as a pro are slim-to-none.   Because the things coaches are asking you to do are things that true #1 looking franchise QB  prospects (Luck, Burrow) have already built, developed, refined and mastered before moving on to more advanced QB traits. 

 

 Then you take into account ownership.  People forget that when Haslem took over, he was wanting to inject some life and excitement into the Browns and our fans.  A fireworks way to kick off his new ownership.  No player was more exciting between his on-field play, and the polarization of talking about it, than Manziel.   

 Go look at season ticket sale increases from that 2014 off-season. Haslam got exactly what he wanted, which amounts to a brief euphoric high.  The issue is, what happens when the high wears off and you now have to face the reality of the situation you've directly created?  You've weakened your team AND your fanbase in the long term.  So you've ultimately caused more damage when the dust finally settles. 

[Orion]

9 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

I could get an interview and white board with a lot of professional coaches. 

But you're not Manziel.  After it was all said and done with him and the NFL he came out and said that the Browns should've known that he's not an X's and O's guy.  Manziel didn't know jack.  You know way more than Manziel.  Don't you remember the line from one of our OLinemen at the time?  I wanna say it was Bitonio.  It was something to the affect, We all wanted to stand up and kiss Manziel one day at practice when he pointed out who the Mike was.  They all knew that he knew nothin' at all.  But before the draft, our guys couldn't sniff out that he was not just a 'Not an X's & O's guy'...but was a complete novice in that area.   It seems to indicate that our guys were too dumb to spot the dummy.   

[tiamat63]

42 minutes ago, Orion said:

But you're not Manziel.  After it was all said and done with him and the NFL he came out and said that the Browns should've known that he's not an X's and O's guy.  Manziel didn't know jack.  You know way more than Manziel.  Don't you remember the line from one of our OLinemen at the time?  I wanna say it was Bitonio.  It was something to the affect, We all wanted to stand up and kiss Manziel one day at practice when he pointed out who the Mike was.  They all knew that he knew nothin' at all.  But before the draft, our guys couldn't sniff out that he was not just a 'Not an X's & O's guy'...but was a complete novice in that area.   It seems to indicate that our guys were too dumb to spot the dummy.   

 

 I could have sworn that was RG3? Only because I remember him botching a few calls in camp that I was present for.

 Getting back to the X's and O's stuff, that sort of thing *MIGHT* be present in a meeting.  Even then, let's say you meet with Browns staff who say that we based XYZ-whatever protections that start on who we identify as the MIKE.   Keep in mind, when a QB identifies MIKE, he's not saying who the defense actually has AS their MLB, it's where the offense (this is vague and general) sets their anchor point or count for protections.    This is where I circle back around to, it really isn't all that difficult to learn and put on board in a meeting room.  There's doing it on a board and then doing it real time on the field with a play clock going.   I'm sure you've remembered, spit back out, only to immediately forget a ton of things from high school and college.   A former NFL player once told me that it isn't a game "coached, played or managed by geniuses".   So I'm positive Manziel was able to spit out what little protection checks he did at A&M, relate it to the Browns brass, who was already being pushed hard by Haslam, who were then swayed with, I guess I'll say, a "lesser" sort of response from Johnny.   One they likely wouldn't have accepted without the shadow of ownership over them.   There's a reason I've called that man Tennessee Jerry multiple times before on this board.   Because, like Jerry Jones, he believes he's a fantastic football mind.  (He's not)

 There is also the arrogance that some coaches feel they can take less mentally capable players and mold them in their image.  I say arrogance because usually it's the polarizing prospects with physical gifts and little else these coaches risk their careers (and lose more often than not) on.    Josh McDaniel is one great example.  That idiot was so consumed with his own genius, he believed he could take Tim Tebow and turn him into an NFL passer.  Despite any and all evidence to the contrary during his time at Florida ranging from his wind-mill like passing motion to his slow processing speed and questionable downfield decisions.   Oh, and fuck McDaniels forever and always.  I lost $100 that day because I said no coach would be dumb enough to take Tebow in the 1st round.    

 

 Hue Jackson might be the most memorable for us Browns fans.  Of course, that's also not to say with another helping hand from ownership.   Per his own words, Kyle Shanahan said the reason Haslam wanted Johnny was they felt they could run an offense similar to what the Skins did in the early days with RG3.    Believing whole-heartedly that was the future of football.    So when Griffin became available on the market, the Browns ownership, front office (I'm including Sashi in this because I'm positive he loved RG3's athletic ability, having no idea what a football player looks like) and Hue jumped on it.  

 You're welcome to go back to my 2016 camp thread where I mentioned that McCown was still (rather easily) the best QB on roster.  And I had only spent a couple days at training camp that year.   But ol' baby Huey felt his system would elevate even the dumbest QB's along with the blessing from on high in the suite level boxes.    

 

 But it's the arrogance I speak in those examples that's an issue.   Generally stems from a lack of self-insight.  There's no amount of coaching you can that yields long term success if you're dealing with players who simply can't grasp the complexities of the game at full speed.  

 

 I have no doubt the true professionals in the building saw Manziel for what he was.  But at the end of the day, they answer to ownership.   Haslam has done as much to hurt this organization as he has done to help.  

[nickers]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

 

 I could have sworn that was RG3? Only because I remember him botching a few calls in camp that I was present for.

 Getting back to the X's and O's stuff, that sort of thing *MIGHT* be present in a meeting.  Even then, let's say you meet with Browns staff who say that we based XYZ-whatever protections that start on who we identify as the MIKE.   Keep in mind, when a QB identifies MIKE, he's not saying who the defense actually has AS their MLB, it's where the offense (this is vague and general) sets their anchor point or count for protections.    This is where I circle back around to, it really isn't all that difficult to learn and put on board in a meeting room.  There's doing it on a board and then doing it real time on the field with a play clock going.   I'm sure you've remembered, spit back out, only to immediately forget a ton of things from high school and college.   A former NFL player once told me that it isn't a game "coached, played or managed by geniuses".   So I'm positive Manziel was able to spit out what little protection checks he did at A&M, relate it to the Browns brass, who was already being pushed hard by Haslam, who were then swayed with, I guess I'll say, a "lesser" sort of response from Johnny.   One they likely wouldn't have accepted without the shadow of ownership over them.   There's a reason I've called that man Tennessee Jerry multiple times before on this board.   Because, like Jerry Jones, he believes he's a fantastic football mind.  (He's not)

 There is also the arrogance that some coaches feel they can take less mentally capable players and mold them in their image.  I say arrogance because usually it's the polarizing prospects with physical gifts and little else these coaches risk their careers (and lose more often than not) on.    Josh McDaniel is one great example.  That idiot was so consumed with his own genius, he believed he could take Tim Tebow and turn him into an NFL passer.  Despite any and all evidence to the contrary during his time at Florida ranging from his wind-mill like passing motion to his slow processing speed and questionable downfield decisions.   Oh, and fuck McDaniels forever and always.  I lost $100 that day because I said no coach would be dumb enough to take Tebow in the 1st round.    

 

 Hue Jackson might be the most memorable for us Browns fans.  Of course, that's also not to say with another helping hand from ownership.   Per his own words, Kyle Shanahan said the reason Haslam wanted Johnny was they felt they could run an offense similar to what the Skins did in the early days with RG3.    Believing whole-heartedly that was the future of football.    So when Griffin became available on the market, the Browns ownership, front office (I'm including Sashi in this because I'm positive he loved RG3's athletic ability, having no idea what a football player looks like) and Hue jumped on it.  

 You're welcome to go back to my 2016 camp thread where I mentioned that McCown was still (rather easily) the best QB on roster.  And I had only spent a couple days at training camp that year.   But ol' baby Huey felt his system would elevate even the dumbest QB's along with the blessing from on high in the suite level boxes.    

 

 But it's the arrogance I speak in those examples that's an issue.   Generally stems from a lack of self-insight.  There's no amount of coaching you can that yields long term success if you're dealing with players who simply can't grasp the complexities of the game at full speed.  

 

 I have no doubt the true professionals in the building saw Manziel for what he was.  But at the end of the day, they answer to ownership.   Haslam has done as much to hurt this organization as he has done to help.  

Could not agree more!

[ballpeen]

2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 

 7

 

 But it's the arrogance I speak in those examples that's an issue.   Generally stems from a lack of self-insight.  There's no amount of coaching you can that yields long term success if you're dealing with players who simply can't grasp the complexities of the game at full speed.  

 

 I have no doubt the true professionals in the building saw Manziel for what he was.  But at the end of the day, they answer to ownership.   Haslam has done as much to hurt this organization as he has done to help.  

Interesting point about arrogance.  I think a lot of coaches have that.  Many seem to feel there isn't anybody that they can't coach up.  You see that a lot with QB's and receivers.  Coaches become so intoxicated with various physical traits they seem to overlook deficiencies.

Unless some kid just walked in from the back woods somewhere, they seem to forget that these players have been getting coached since they were 8 years old.  From Pee Wee football, to HS, various camps most attended, college coaching.  Somewhere in there they have received quality coaching.  If by the time they are 21 years old and they can't catch a ball, a skill learned when you are 8 tossing the ball around with friends, they just can't catch.  

 

No NFL coach has some magic dust that is going to just magically turn some player around, but, many think they do.

[Orion]

3 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

I could have sworn that was RG3?

Nope.  Billy.  

So far we've mentioned Hue & Pettine.  Two of the dumbest coaches we've ever had.  Now I'm going to be pissed...but relieved that we're beyond those two twerps.  

[nickers]

31 minutes ago, Orion said:

Nope.  Billy.  

So far we've mentioned Hue & Pettine.  Two of the dumbest coaches we've ever had.  Now I'm going to be pissed...but relieved that we're beyond those two twerps.  

Kevvy don't impress me that much either... He's a coffee fetcher...

[Flugel]

On 3/7/2023 at 11:43 PM, nickers said:

Kevvy is a pussy.. The teams plays like a bunch of pussies too... We were lucky in a Covid year.. Nothing more...

The team or the Rent-A-Wrecks playing IDL?    I mean we started some games with running the ball right down our opponents' esophagi and into the end zone with sustained drives lasting up to 6 minute or so.  Then our defense takes the field; and 2 minutes later the game is tied.  Again, everyone wants to just fire the symptoms of FO ignorance and neglect.  

Nicks, if you ever played the game outside with a jock strap on instead of indoors with reading glasses and a video screen - you'd know you create your breaks with effort, hustle and willingness to do all the little things that add up to WINNING via a blue collar mentality.  Look no further than the playoff game in Pittsburgh to see DL batting down or deflecting passes to teammates causing 5 INTs from Pitt's QB.  A huge percentage of that team was put together by John Dorsey inclusive of FA Sheldon Richardson, whose veteran leadership was prolly very valuable in reminding younger teammates of the little things that were doable.  Andrew Berry got rid of him right after that year (reminding people he didn't bring in Richardson for the kind of money he doesn't want to pay a DT today).  It may be just a gigantic coincidence but after going 11-5 valuing the IDL in 2020 - this team got rid of Richardson in 2021 and dropped to 9-8 and then dropped to 7-10 in 2022.

A lot of that is why I'm not as confident in Andrew Berry as everyone else seems to be.  We've fired every Coordinator except the one fetching Stefanski's coffee while our HC calls the plays.  The Browns also fired a lot of position coaches because it has to be they can't develop the players Berry drafts.  Is it really Bill Callahan's fault that Jed Wills isn't very good at all after his 3rd season?  Is it the WR Coach's fault that Berry's 3rd round WR Anthony Schwartz isn't a very good football player?  Could it be these guys weren't researched very thoroughly for the positions/roles the Browns needed from them?

As a Browns fan I can only HOPE Andrew Berry has done some self-evaluating because blowing off the line of scrimmage on defense put 4 LBers on IR.  More specifically, the cause and effect of it all made our front 7 non-competitive enough to lose 10 games.  Only the symptoms of the bigger problem were held accountable IMO.  I say that knowing Schwartz will be a huge help if/when 1 FO ego realizes he needs some talent to work with up front.

[Flugel]

On 3/8/2023 at 9:15 AM, tiamat63 said:

 

 I could get an interview and white board with a lot of professional coaches.  The language will be different, but I'll understand everything they say and vice versa.  White boarding is good for two things - diagraming and delivering education, and understanding the sort of things players have and have not been exposed to.  

 I've little doubt Johnny could be in a QB room and pass off a bit of what he knew. 

 The problem is, you now have to take that X's and O's knowledge, then diagnose, process and execute in real time on the field.  Which is 8th level Mario bros.  Could I do that a pro level?  Fuuuuuuck no.  Then again, seeing Bryce Young check in shorter than myself might have me rethink that 😂

 

 Processing speed is crucial.  It can be developed and increased through knowledge of the game, mental/physical preperation and situational awareness.  But if you don't display consistent fundamentals of that ability at the collegiate level (Johnny did NOT, contrary to popular belief) then the chances you magically develop that in reasonable time as a pro are slim-to-none.   Because the things coaches are asking you to do are things that true #1 looking franchise QB  prospects (Luck, Burrow) have already built, developed, refined and mastered before moving on to more advanced QB traits. 

 

 Then you take into account ownership.  People forget that when Haslem took over, he was wanting to inject some life and excitement into the Browns and our fans.  A fireworks way to kick off his new ownership.  No player was more exciting between his on-field play, and the polarization of talking about it, than Manziel.   

 Go look at season ticket sale increases from that 2014 off-season. Haslam got exactly what he wanted, which amounts to a brief euphoric high.  The issue is, what happens when the high wears off and you now have to face the reality of the situation you've directly created?  You've weakened your team AND your fanbase in the long term.  So you've ultimately caused more damage when the dust finally settles. 

Brady Quinn was a very book smart kid who was allegedly "the MOST pro ready" QB of his class according to a lot of draft experts and Hear-say Specialists like Mary Kay Cabot.  That phrase "pro ready" was so coyote ugly it has become extinct.  Anyway, the show-stopper for Brady that all these people missed was he couldn't process information in front of him at the speed of the game to get the ball out on time to receivers that were open until he released it.  Never solved it.  Originally, Derek Anderson became a hero replacing Charlie Frye (who had the same problem as Quinn); because DA got the ball out very quickly against Cincy to the tune of 5 TD passes.  That wasn't what Cincy prepared for all week but they beat us in the rematch once they understood the weaknesses he had on film.

Brady Quinn got spoiled by locking onto a 6'7" WR target Jeff Szmardija (sp?) with an ideal catch radius and good hands. What was a good thing for Notre Dame at the time wasn't necessarily a good habit to bring to the NFL that demands good pre-snap analysis (processing defenses and disguises) in order to read the progressions quickly enough to release the throw to a receiver breaking open.  We're talking Evelyn Woodhead speed read-level here. Keep in mind a lot of top QB prospects don't go to the best Offensive Lines in the NFL either.  Furthermore, the last I heard the average length of an NFL play was about 4 seconds so try to think of all the mileage a young QB's mind has to travel between the time he gets to his 2 point stance and releasing his throw.  You can't be stupid at this unless you want to be a scout for the Cleveland Browns FO.  

[TexasAg1969]

On 3/8/2023 at 8:15 AM, tiamat63 said:

 

 I could get an interview and white board with a lot of professional coaches.  The language will be different, but I'll understand everything they say and vice versa.  White boarding is good for two things - diagraming and delivering education, and understanding the sort of things players have and have not been exposed to.  

 I've little doubt Johnny could be in a QB room and pass off a bit of what he knew. 

 The problem is, you now have to take that X's and O's knowledge, then diagnose, process and execute in real time on the field.  Which is 8th level Mario bros.  Could I do that a pro level?  Fuuuuuuck no.  Then again, seeing Bryce Young check in shorter than myself might have me rethink that 😂

 

 Processing speed is crucial.  It can be developed and increased through knowledge of the game, mental/physical preperation and situational awareness.  But if you don't display consistent fundamentals of that ability at the collegiate level (Johnny did NOT, contrary to popular belief) then the chances you magically develop that in reasonable time as a pro are slim-to-none.   Because the things coaches are asking you to do are things that true #1 looking franchise QB  prospects (Luck, Burrow) have already built, developed, refined and mastered before moving on to more advanced QB traits. 

 

 Then you take into account ownership.  People forget that when Haslem took over, he was wanting to inject some life and excitement into the Browns and our fans.  A fireworks way to kick off his new ownership.  No player was more exciting between his on-field play, and the polarization of talking about it, than Manziel.   

 Go look at season ticket sale increases from that 2014 off-season. Haslam got exactly what he wanted, which amounts to a brief euphoric high.  The issue is, what happens when the high wears off and you now have to face the reality of the situation you've directly created?  You've weakened your team AND your fanbase in the long term.  So you've ultimately caused more damage when the dust finally settles. 

What I saw with Johnny was a player who came out way too soon who had only two collegiate seasons under his belt which demonstrated an uncanny ability to find receivers on the fly along with decent running skills.  But he had no idea how hard learning to read defenses would be and by then he was deep into buying all the hype along with drugs/alcohol, a deadly combination when immaturity is thrown into the mix that made him too lazy to actually learn. I am not sure if any pro scouts tried to get through to him about what he would need to succeed before coming out. But if they did try he just couldn't hear it. Still he is revered to this day in Aggieland for that one spectacular Heisman season and a 41-13 runover of Oklahoma in the Cotton Bowl game at the end of that season.

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

Brady Quinn was a very book smart kid who was allegedly "the MOST pro ready" QB of his class according to a lot of draft experts and Hear-say Specialists like Mary Kay Cabot.  That phrase "pro ready" was so coyote ugly it has become extinct.  Anyway, the show-stopper for Brady that all these people missed was he couldn't process information in front of him at the speed of the game to get the ball out on time to receivers that were open until he released it.  Never solved it.  Originally, Derek Anderson became a hero replacing Charlie Frye (who had the same problem as Quinn); because DA got the ball out very quickly against Cincy to the tune of 5 TD passes.  That wasn't what Cincy prepared for all week but they beat us in the rematch once they understood the weaknesses he had on film.

Brady Quinn got spoiled by locking onto a 6'7" WR target Jeff Szmardija (sp?) with an ideal catch radius and good hands. What was a good thing for Notre Dame at the time wasn't necessarily a good habit to bring to the NFL that demands good pre-snap analysis (processing defenses and disguises) in order to read the progressions quickly enough to release the throw to a receiver breaking open.  We're talking Evelyn Woodhead speed read-level here. Keep in mind a lot of top QB prospects don't go to the best Offensive Lines in the NFL either.  Furthermore, the last I heard the average length of an NFL play was about 4 seconds so try to think of all the mileage a young QB's mind has to travel between the time he gets to his 2 point stance and releasing his throw.  You can't be stupid at this unless you want to be a scout for the Cleveland Browns FO.  

 

Don't forget Stovalt, Fasano and Knight. 

NoD had some tall pass catchers back in the day. 

[Flugel]

36 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

What I saw with Johnny was a player who came out way too soon who had only two collegiate seasons under his belt which demonstrated an uncanny ability to find receivers on the fly along with decent running skills.  But he had no idea how hard learning to read defenses would be and by then he was deep into buying all the hype along with drugs/alcohol, a deadly combination when immaturity is thrown into the mix that made him too lazy to actually learn. I am not sure if any pro scouts tried to get through to him about what he would need to succeed before coming out. But if they did try he just couldn't hear it. Still he is revered to this day in Aggieland for that one spectacular Heisman season and a 41-13 runover of Oklahoma in the Cotton Bowl game at the end of that season.

I remembered when Nick Saban had no solutions for Johnny Manziel and his primary target Ryan Swoop/Swope that day.  The problem with Johnny aside from what others are bringing up was his chemical dependency.  Every thing he did or was capable of completely flat-lined because of it.

[Flugel]

11 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

 

Don't forget Stovalt, Fasano and Knight. 

NoD had some tall pass catchers back in the day. 

They sure did T!  It made Quinn's life pretty good there. 

[TexasAg1969]

3 hours ago, Flugel said:

I remembered when Nick Saban had no solutions for Johnny Manziel and his primary target Ryan Swoop/Swope that day.  The problem with Johnny aside from what others are bringing up was his chemical dependency.  Every thing he did or was capable of completely flat-lined because of it.

And even worse was watching Bob Stoops jumping up and down in frustration on the Oklahoma sidelines as Johnny came running past him for even one more spectacular run for a long first down plus. He had no solution for his ability to shake free and run all over them that day either.

[tiamat63]

 Saban usually has a game a season where his defense shits the bed at least once. 

 And Bob Stoops at Okie pretty much stopped playing defense after his won the ship against Fla St.    Honorable mention when they had Gerald McCoy.