Jim Schwartz new DC

[mjp28]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

 Saban usually has a game a season where his defense shits the bed at least once. 

 And Bob Stoops at Okie pretty much stopped playing defense after his won the ship against Fla St.    Honorable mention when they had Gerald McCoy. 

Oh yes Johnny football Manzel was a great  "made for college " football style/game ...... not so much for the NFL and the bigger faster  defensive players that hit hard you've seen that happen enough in the:professional game.

•(Edit, besides the fact that jff was a party animal that came into big cash at a very early age ....... bad combination for him and his team.)

And Bob Stoops and the Stoops family and others like Bo Pelini came from the highly successful Youngstown Cardinal Mooney High School  football system. Many went on to successful professional football playing and/or coaching careers. 

Beyond them the playing/coaching branches and roots from Ohio are well known and quite successful over time.

Edited March 10, 2023 by mjp28

[Flugel]

On 3/10/2023 at 11:29 AM, TexasAg1969 said:

And even worse was watching Bob Stoops jumping up and down in frustration on the Oklahoma sidelines as Johnny came running past him for even one more spectacular run for a long first down plus. He had no solution for his ability to shake free and run all over them that day either.

Manziel was very fun to watch at the college level.  There's just no predicting what kids that partied throughout college will give it up once they're drafted.  Anyone ever read up on/hear what Brett Favre was like as a rookie in Atlanta?   Guys like Norm Van Brocklin and Tommy Kramer were alcoholics who were also Pro Bowl QBs on the side.  We all have our own demons.

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

Manziel was very fun to watch at the college level.  There's just no predicting what kids that partied throughout college will give it up once they're drafted.  Anyone ever read up on/hear what Brett Favre was like as a rookie in Atlanta?   Guys like Norm Van Brocklin and Tommy Kramer were alcoholics who were also Pro Bowl QBs on the side.  We all have our own demons.

I heard stories about what Brett was like at college from a relative that went to school with him at So. Miss.

Difference is Brett loved to play football, he actually grew up and he dissected the intricacies of the game (listen to Stefanski about that).  

One loved the fame…One loved the game 

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

I heard stories about what Brett was like at college from a relative that went to school with him at So. Miss.

Difference is Brett loved to play football, he actually grew up and he dissected the intricacies of the game (listen to Stefanski about that).  

One loved the fame…One loved the game 

Well said!  Plus he grew up with his dad being a varsity football coach that he eventually played for.

Great line SD:  "One loved the fame...One loved the game."

[TexasAg1969]

10 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

I heard stories about what Brett was like at college from a relative that went to school with him at So. Miss.

Difference is Brett loved to play football, he actually grew up and he dissected the intricacies of the game (listen to Stefanski about that).  

One loved the fame…One loved the game 

Don't kid yourself. Brett loved the fame too, not just the game. Too bad Manziel didn't love both equally. BTW Farve loved JFFs college game too.

[Flugel]

15 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Don't kid yourself. Brett loved the fame too, not just the game. Too bad Manziel didn't love both equally. BTW Farve loved JFFs college game too.

People forget that not all REALLY good college football QBs are wired for the NFL.  The Cleveland Browns haven't quite learned this out yet; so they just gave up on drafting QBs any more.  It's not fair to them if I complain about both those things - so thank you for the progress?

We talk about Johnny Manziel as if Art Schlichter never existed.  Ohio State has had some really good college football QBs that never panned out at the NFL level.  Troy Smith was an awesome college football QB. Very fun to witness! Watching him turn Michigan into Missedagain was an endorphin arousal.  That wasn't just exclusive to Missedagain either.  Just like Misseagain gagging in Big Games wasn't exclusive to Troy Smith.  See their last game against Max Duggan.

The guy that started this board Atenears LOVED him some Joe Germaine and rightfully so.  Braxton Miller was the Big 10 Conference Player of the year more than once before an injury slammed the brakes on his QB career. JT Barrett came along and accomplished the same stuff.  Injuries stopped him too.  That poor kid had to watch Cardale Jones lead the Buckeyes to  the National Championship with what was supposed to be his team.  Craig Krenzel was only a 2 year starter but one of those was a 14-0 season where he was a very poised leader that won close games. Believe it or not, their toughest games was against Cincinnati that year.  They were behind 19-17 the last time they got the ball with no margin of error left. 1 mistake and it was game over with a loss; but Krenzel ended up running in the game winning score TD with very little time left in a 23-19 game.

Todd Blackledge was a National Champion QB that never panned out in the NFL.  There's tons of examples of very good college QBs that never made it in the NFL.

 

[nickers]

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

People forget that not all REALLY good college football QBs are wired for the NFL.  The Cleveland Browns haven't quite learned this out yet; so they just gave up on drafting QBs any more.  It's not fair to them if I complain about both those things - so thank you for the progress?

We talk about Johnny Manziel as if Art Schlichter never existed.  Ohio State has had some really good college football QBs that never panned out at the NFL level.  Troy Smith was an awesome college football QB. Very fun to witness! Watching him turn Michigan into Missedagain was an endorphin arousal.  That wasn't just exclusive to Missedagain either.  Just like Misseagain gagging in Big Games wasn't exclusive to Troy Smith.  See their last game against Max Duggan.

The guy that started this board Atenears LOVED him some Joe Germaine and rightfully so.  Braxton Miller was the Big 10 Conference Player of the year more than once before an injury slammed the brakes on his QB career. JT Barrett came along and accomplished the same stuff.  Injuries stopped him too.  That poor kid had to watch Cardale Jones lead the Buckeyes to  the National Championship with what was supposed to be his team.  Craig Krenzel was only a 2 year starter but one of those was a 14-0 season where he was a very poised leader that won close games. Believe it or not, their toughest games was against Cincinnati that year.  They were behind 19-17 the last time they got the ball with no margin of error left. 1 mistake and it was game over with a loss; but Krenzel ended up running in the game winning score TD with very little time left in a 23-19 game.

Todd Blackledge was a National Champion QB that never panned out in the NFL.  There's tons of examples of very good college QBs that never made it in the NFL.

 

Gino Toretta and Tee Higgins come to mind...

[TexasAg1969]

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

People forget that not all REALLY good college football QBs are wired for the NFL.  The Cleveland Browns haven't quite learned this out yet; so they just gave up on drafting QBs any more.  It's not fair to them if I complain about both those things - so thank you for the progress?

We talk about Johnny Manziel as if Art Schlichter never existed.  Ohio State has had some really good college football QBs that never panned out at the NFL level.  Troy Smith was an awesome college football QB. Very fun to witness! Watching him turn Michigan into Missedagain was an endorphin arousal.  That wasn't just exclusive to Missedagain either.  Just like Misseagain gagging in Big Games wasn't exclusive to Troy Smith.  See their last game against Max Duggan.

The guy that started this board Atenears LOVED him some Joe Germaine and rightfully so.  Braxton Miller was the Big 10 Conference Player of the year more than once before an injury slammed the brakes on his QB career. JT Barrett came along and accomplished the same stuff.  Injuries stopped him too.  That poor kid had to watch Cardale Jones lead the Buckeyes to  the National Championship with what was supposed to be his team.  Craig Krenzel was only a 2 year starter but one of those was a 14-0 season where he was a very poised leader that won close games. Believe it or not, their toughest games was against Cincinnati that year.  They were behind 19-17 the last time they got the ball with no margin of error left. 1 mistake and it was game over with a loss; but Krenzel ended up running in the game winning score TD with very little time left in a 23-19 game.

Todd Blackledge was a National Champion QB that never panned out in the NFL.  There's tons of examples of very good college QBs that never made it in the NFL.

 

The greatest successful QB in the NFL for A&M was Gary Kubiak, John Elway's backup and de facto QB coach on the bench for 2 SB wins and later the HC of the Superbowl winning Broncos in 2015.

[SdBacker80]

4 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Don't kid yourself. Brett loved the fame too, not just the game. Too bad Manziel didn't love both equally. BTW Farve loved JFFs college game too.

I don’t know what Brett said about Johnny Footballs college game.  I imagine if asked he would say something positive.  He was fun to watch in college. 

it is not as common for the old timers to call out newbies…there are exceptions of course like Jim Brown calling Trent Richardson “ordinary”. 

 

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

The greatest successful QB in the NFL for A&M was Gary Kubiak, John Elway's backup and de facto QB coach on the bench for 2 SB wins and later the HC of the Superbowl winning Broncos in 2015.

Tannehill, Kyler Murray, Kyle Allen. 

[nickers]

1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

I don’t know what Brett said about Johnny Footballs college game.  I imagine if asked he would say something positive.  He was fun to watch in college. 

it is not as common for the old timers to call out newbies…there are exceptions of course like Jim Brown calling Trent Richardson “ordinary”. 

 

Except JB was right and I agreed with him...

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, nickers said:

Except JB was right and I agreed with him...

After that Week 2 game against Cincy his rookie year it all came crashing down 

[Flugel]

7 hours ago, nickers said:

Gino Toretta and Tee Higgins come to mind...

Nicks, did you mean T Pryor instead of Tee Higgins?  The only Tee Higgins I can think of played WR for Clemson.

[tiamat63]

3 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Nicks, did you mean T Pryor instead of Tee Higgins?  The only Tee Higgins I can think of played WR for Clemson.

 

Tee Martin.  Came in after Peyton in Tennessee and the defense won them a natty.  

 

At least, that's my logical guess. 

[Flugel]

5 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

I don’t know what Brett said about Johnny Footballs college game.  I imagine if asked he would say something positive.  He was fun to watch in college. 

it is not as common for the old timers to call out newbies…there are exceptions of course like Jim Brown calling Trent Richardson “ordinary”. 

 

Remember all the draft analysts covering the draft telling us we did great BECAUSE of Richardson?  Do I dare say I thought we did too?  The problem with evaluating these drafts at the time is our heart/wishful thinking gets in the way of accuracy. All that said, there was nothing about that guy coming out of Bama showing me we could be wrong except maybe running with his head down at times.

[Flugel]

47 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

 

Tee Martin.  Came in after Peyton in Tennessee and the defense won them a natty.  

 

At least, that's my logical guess. 

Ah, I think you got it.  Yes, he led UT to an undefeated record and he's currently coaching/coordinating an offense somewhere I think.

Josh Heupel was also a National Champion QB at Oklahoma.  He's currently the HC of UT; and did a very nice job with that program after doing well at UCF.

[nickers]

17 hours ago, Flugel said:

Nicks, did you mean T Pryor instead of Tee Higgins?  The only Tee Higgins I can think of played WR for Clemson.

No I think I meant Tee Martin... He played QB for the Vols in the 90's I believe.. It was Tee something...

[ballpeen]

18 hours ago, nickers said:

No I think I meant Tee Martin... He played QB for the Vols in the 90's I believe.. It was Tee something...

Tee Martin is correct.

 

All of this discussion just goes to show how inexact it is in scouting QB's. Guys can check all the boxes and end up pretty average at best if not outright flops in the NFL. 

It might not be as bad as throwing darts but it isn't all that far off.  You can see it on the other end as well.  There have been a lot of QB's who had good to great NFL careers who came out of the mid to lower rounds.  Brady would be the classic example.  How is it that Spurgeon Wynn was considered a better prospect than Brady?  That isn't a jab at the Browns.  Every other team in the league passed on him multiple times. 

[gumby73]

    "Are ya done"?   on to FA day 2 ! 

[Flugel]

3 minutes ago, ballpeen said:

Tee Martin is correct.

 

All of this discussion just goes to show how inexact it is in scouting QB's. Guys can check all the boxes and end up pretty average at best if not outright flops in the NFL. 

It might not be as bad as throwing darts but it isn't all that far off.  You can see it on the other end as well.  There have been a lot of QB's who had good to great NFL careers who came out of the mid to lower rounds.  Brady would be the classic example.  How is it that Spurgeon Wynn was considered a better prospect than Brady?  That isn't a jab at the Browns.  Every other team in the league passed on him multiple times. 

To your point - the funny thing was when someone told Belichick how smart he was he kind of chuckled and said something along the line of "well, I don't know how smart I was for passing on him the number of times I did before I finally took him."

When we look at guys like Brady and Mahomes, neither one of them were raced into starting jobs as rookies and rightfully so.  Both guys didn't start until their 2nd season.  In fact, if memory serves me right  - Brady didn't start until Bledsoe got hurt.  

As much as the Browns seem like they've always needed a better QB - what's to say they haven't always needed better people on the coaching staff in charge of developing the guy.  IMO, Buffalo did a very impressive job bringing Josh Allen along.  Despite the strong arm - he definitely had some things to work on and they we're patient some early growing pains they perceived as fixable.  That's the key along with not changing out the staff so everything just learned doesn't have to be deprogramed by a new staff coming in.  

Brady's dream was to play for his favorite team in SF.  SF's Bill Walsh even drafted a QB Giovanni Carmazzi in round 3 from Hofstra University (Long Island, NY) that year.  That school doesn't even have a football program any more.  2 guys from there that people may remember are Wayne Chrebet and Marques Colston.

[SdBacker80]

On 3/12/2023 at 2:29 PM, Flugel said:

Remember all the draft analysts covering the draft telling us we did great BECAUSE of Richardson?  Do I dare say I thought we did too?  The problem with evaluating these drafts at the time is our heart/wishful thinking gets in the way of accuracy. All that said, there was nothing about that guy coming out of Bama showing me we could be wrong except maybe running with his head down at times.

Admittedly I didn’t think he was “ordinary”.  He just seemed a little too stiff which is fine I guess if you can run through tackles- but that wasn’t the case.  
 

 

[Flugel]

5 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

Admittedly I didn’t think he was “ordinary”.  He just seemed a little too stiff which is fine I guess if you can run through tackles- but that wasn’t the case.  
 

 

I hear ya.  That story ended up as an unsolved mystery...

[Canton Dawg]

On 3/14/2023 at 6:50 AM, Flugel said:

When we look at guys like Brady and Mahomes, neither one of them were raced into starting jobs as rookies and rightfully so.  Both guys didn't start until their 2nd season. 
Actually, Mahomes started late in the season during his rookie year.

In fact, if memory serves me right  - Brady didn't start until Bledsoe got hurt.

Correct, Brady put the beat down on Manning and the Colts in his 1st start.

 

[Flugel]

6 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

 

Okay, actually he started the final regular season game when they rested a lot of starters including QB Alex Smith before the playoffs - but you know what I mean for the most part. Here's his numbers for that game.

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	Sk%	NY/A	ANY/A	4QC	GWD	AV	Awards
2017	22	KAN	QB	15	1	1	1-0-0	22	35	62.9	284	0	0.0	1	2.9	15	51	8.1	6.8	12.9	284.0	76.4	68.2	2	15	5.4	7.27	6.05	0	1

[Canton Dawg]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

Okay, actually he started the final regular season game when they rested a lot of starters including QB Alex Smith before the playoffs - but you know what I mean for the most part. Here's his numbers for that game.

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	Sk%	NY/A	ANY/A	4QC	GWD	AV	Awards
2017	22	KAN	QB	15	1	1	1-0-0	22	35	62.9	284	0	0.0	1	2.9	15	51	8.1	6.8	12.9	284.0	76.4	68.2	2	15	5.4	7.27	6.05	0	1

I vaguely remember watching the game against the Denver.

I recall the Chiefs up by 14 late in the game and Reid pulled Mahomes out.

Then the Broncos tied the game with time running out, and Andy put Mahomes back in and he engineered a drive that resulted in a game winning FG.

Funny I can remember shit like that but I can’t find my car keys! 

[Orion]

On 3/14/2023 at 6:46 AM, gumby73 said:

    "Are ya done"?   on to FA day 2 ! 

 

3 guys so far for smiley Schwartz.  

[gumby73]

7 hours ago, Orion said:

 

3 guys so far for smiley Schwartz.  

Projected Defense Chart

ED - Garrett/Thomas
ED - Okoronkwo/Wright
DT - Tomlinson/Winfrey
DT - Elliott/Hurst
WLB - JOK/Fields
*MLB - * * */ Phillips

SAM-Taki/
CB - Ward/
*NB - Newsome/ AJ Green
CB - Emerson/ Graham jr.
FS - Thornhill/ Bell
SS - Delpit/ Bolden

*1) Got to find a Mike LB..

*2) Newsome wants out of Nickle role..prefers outside corner. bring back FA Troy Hill?/ draft? 

Iowa's Jack Campbell a draft target? FA LB'er's flew off the board day 1 & 2..(7-8M/per)

Bring back FA Anthony Walker? FA Reggie Ragland? Browns FA Deion Jones ain't hearing 14M to sign anywhere..

Looks Better 👀 Jimmy Schwartz !   

[Flugel]

9 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

I vaguely remember watching the game against the Denver.

I recall the Chiefs up by 14 late in the game and Reid pulled Mahomes out.

Then the Broncos tied the game with time running out, and Andy put Mahomes back in and he engineered a drive that resulted in a game winning FG.

Funny I can remember shit like that but I can’t find my car keys! 

🤣 I just said the same thing when I couldn't remember where I put my cell phone the other day.  My wife, rolling her eyes, said I'll call your phone but you probably have your ringer off.

As for the football stuff, thanks for reminding me he Mahomes played the final game.  To my point though, Reid was very smart not throwing him out there immediately when he had a productive veteran (and former 1st overall pick) at QB that Mahomes could learn from.  That was very similar to Brady (learning from Bledsoe with a similar background and credentials to that of Alex Smith).  That's the advantage of going to the right Coach and the right situation for a QB like Brady or Mahomes.  We've seen what other 1st round QBs can be sentenced to.

[Orion]

From the team's site:

"I don't think his emphasis is to make me a better player," Garrett said. "I know he will with what he's doing and the scheme that he's putting out there for us, but he's out there to make us all a better defense. He's out there to get the most out of us and to make the best defense possible for the players he has out there. I think his scheme will be tuned towards us, especially the guys up front, letting us go out there and hunt."

...schemes have largely featured a technique known as the Wide-9, which spaces defensive linemen a bit further apart from each other than normal schemes. The space allows them more freedom to find ways to zip past offensive linemen, and that should be something that benefits Garrett, who has mastered the ability to move around offensive tackles with his ultra-effective bend.

"I know he's worked with a lot of great players, a lot of great defensive lineman, and gotten the most out of those guys," Garrett said. "He plays wide open, as they say. Just letting guys run free and make plays on the ball."

-------

Ya know, this wider scheme would've been right up Clowney's alley.  He had special quickness.  I'm happy that we have Schwartz...who's been the coordinator, the HC, etc......over Woods, who hadn't been.

[Korsou Dawg]

Was looking for the best topic to post this, and I suppose coach Schwartz deserves some of the credit, at least.