Cade York is out.

[nickers]

At least bring some competition in or is it just a bad case of the yips?... Schwartz still looks like shit , too!

[ballpeen]

A kicker can be brought in at any point.  I don't think a missed 50 yard kick in the 1st preseason game is the time.

[Flugel]

On 8/3/2023 at 11:55 PM, nickers said:

At least bring some competition in or is it just a bad case of the yips?... Schwartz still looks like shit , too!

Did you buy those rose colored glasses on April Fools Day?     As much as I enjoy your football opinions, you almost wanted us to cut Nick Chubb when his 1st NFL carry in preseason went for a 2 yard loss because he got tackled at the hand-off.  You gave him a nice warm welcome with "THIS GUY SUCKS!"  Let's see what Bubba does to get this guy back to being the guy the Browns wanted to draft Nicks.  If he keeps struggling, they'll get someone here.  

The good thing about adding another kicker is he wouldn't have to learn a brand new playbook. I say that because I think there will probably be better competition available after final cutdowns. Speaking of which,  I thought I heard the cutdowns are being done differently this year.  I think they're doing all the cuts (at once) the week before the regular season games begin.  You may want to fact check that one though.

Repeat after me, LEFT TACKLE is something we should be concerned about...

[nickers]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

Did you buy those rose colored glasses on April Fools Day?     As much as I enjoy your football opinions, you almost wanted us to cut Nick Chubb when his 1st NFL carry in preseason went for a 2 yard loss because he got tackled at the hand-off.  You gave him a nice warm welcome with "THIS GUY SUCKS!"  Let's see what Bubba does to get this guy back to being the guy the Browns wanted to draft Nicks.  If he keeps struggling, they'll get someone here.  

The good thing about adding another kicker is he wouldn't have to learn a brand new playbook. I say that because I think there will probably be better competition available after final cutdowns. Speaking of which,  I thought I heard the cutdowns are being done differently this year.  I think they're doing all the cuts (at once) the week before the regular season games begin.  You may want to fact check that one though.

Repeat after me, LEFT TACKLE is something we should be concerned about...

When did I ever say anything about Chubb?... He came out of nowhere and surprised everybody.. All I asked or suggested was bringing a little competition... I still think hes got talent.. I think everything going with him right now is just mental.. He's got the preseason to right the ship right? I mean hell we dumped Shane Gonzales and since then hes done okay for himself. at least were not suffering through the Cody Parkeys and Billy Cundiffs.. And I agree on LT... I maintain Wills is a back up at best... I think its okay to have general concern for his performance (York).. He damn near shanked away his first PAT.

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, nickers said:

When did I ever say anything about Chubb?... He came out of nowhere and surprised everybody.. All I asked or suggested was bringing a little competition... I still think hes got talent.. I think everything going with him right now is just mental.. He's got the preseason to right the ship right? I mean hell we dumped Shane Gonzales and since then hes done okay for himself. at least were not suffering through the Cody Parkeys and Billy Cundiffs.. And I agree on LT... I maintain Wills is a back up at best... I think its okay to have general concern for his performance (York).. He damn near shanked away his first PAT.

I just explained exactly when.  This wasn't the 1st or 2nd time I've busted your balls about it and you know that. Chubb didn't come out of nowhere in Cleveland.  He came out of nowhere in the SEC when he was the Freshman/Newcomer of the year in that conference.  He did that by rushing for 1550 yards as a true freshman.  He gained 1333 of those yards at 7.1 yards per carry in his last 7 games.  Many that saw him play back then haven't seen a different player today.  What I really busted your balls about was impatience.

Regarding York, they'll probably bring in competition.  That said, let's see how Bubba brings him along.  I get the feeling NFL place kickers face similar challenges as pro golfers.  When things are going well - everything goes right down the middle from the smooth mechanics.  The minute 1 thing/mechanic slightly alters and continues a bad habit has formed.  This has a negative impact on the player's performance and confidence.   Coaching is needed for the intervention.  Luckily, there's 3 more preseason games to find the problem and resolve it.

[Orion]

4 hours ago, nickers said:

Chubb?... He came out of nowhere and surprised everybody.

He didn't come out of nowhere.  I was thanking God that he was there for us at the top of round 2.  Dorsey drafted that useless guard though...but fortunately the Giants already had their man and didn't trade away their pick so he was there for us at #3 of the second round.  

 

6 hours ago, Flugel said:

Let's see what Bubba does to get this guy back to being the guy the Browns wanted to draft

The only people I trust that can help a kicker is an ex kicker.  (a good one...like Phil Dawson perhaps)  Unless you want to teach him how to tackle...

[nickers]

2 hours ago, Orion said:

He didn't come out of nowhere.  I was thanking God that he was there for us at the top of round 2.  Dorsey drafted that useless guard though...but fortunately the Giants already had their man and didn't trade away their pick so he was there for us at #3 of the second round.  

 

The only people I trust that can help a kicker is an ex kicker.  (a good one...like Phil Dawson perhaps)  Unless you want to teach him how to tackle...

Yeah but didn't Chubb sit behind Saquan Barkley in college if I'm not mistaken?.. Who became the better,available back again?

[syd]

1 hour ago, nickers said:

Yeah but didn't Chubb sit behind Saquan Barkley in college if I'm not mistaken?.. Who became the better,available back again?

no you fucking idiot Chubb played at GEORGIA not penn state

[Ibleedbrown]

We need a kicker not a belly picker!

just kiddin’, l think Cade will be ok. He just needs to find the right cadence…ba dum, tss.

[Orion]

2 hours ago, nickers said:

Yeah but didn't Chubb

His question mark waw an injury.  

[ballpeen]

16 hours ago, Flugel said:

I just explained exactly when.  This wasn't the 1st or 2nd time I've busted your balls about it and you know that. Chubb didn't come out of nowhere in Cleveland.  He came out of nowhere in the SEC when he was the Freshman/Newcomer of the year in that conference.  He did that by rushing for 1550 yards as a true freshman.  He gained 1333 of those yards at 7.1 yards per carry in his last 7 games.  Many that saw him play back then haven't seen a different player today.  What I really busted your balls about was impatience.

Regarding York, they'll probably bring in competition.  That said, let's see how Bubba brings him along.  I get the feeling NFL place kickers face similar challenges as pro golfers.  When things are going well - everything goes right down the middle from the smooth mechanics.  The minute 1 thing/mechanic slightly alters and continues a bad habit has formed.  This has a negative impact on the player's performance and confidence.   Coaching is needed for the intervention.  Luckily, there's 3 more preseason games to find the problem and resolve it.

The reality is a ST coach really isn't a kicking coach.  York has his own coaches for that.  The only real thing Ventrone can do is encourage the guy.  Try to relax him.

 

That said, I am not all that worried about a missed 50 yard kick.  If he starts missing extra points and 43 yard kicks, then we have a problem.  If he starts pushing them next week we might see a vet FA kicker brought in.

[Flugel]

33 minutes ago, ballpeen said:

The reality is a ST coach really isn't a kicking coach.  York has his own coaches for that.  The only real thing Ventrone can do is encourage the guy.  Try to relax him.

 

That said, I am not all that worried about a missed 50 yard kick.  If he starts missing extra points and 43 yard kicks, then we have a problem.  If he starts pushing them next week we might see a vet FA kicker brought in.

That's a good point you make in bold.  The OC & DC has position coaches that teach and reinforce all the details of the specific positions. Having said that, I think the STs Coordinator has to wear the position coach hat as well.  When it comes to kicking and maybe even punting, it seems like the biggest challenge the STs Coordinator faces.  Having said that, there's ALWAYS film available to look to the trends of accuracy or inconsistency in terms of mechanics/fundamentals. For example, "this is you in your groove and why you were important enough to draft."  To the other extreme, "this is you fighting your norms - what looks different?"  I liked the Phil Dawson idea from @Orion if the struggles don't resolve.  

A lot of young guys looking for an NFL niche quickly learn what worked in college doesn't always work in the NFL.  Coaching is critical for this so maybe the coaching York got at the amateur level in a warm weather climate is no longer applicable to the winds and cold weather off Lake Erie from November thru January.  "9-1-1, this is Phil Dawson. How can I help you?"

All of that said, I agree that we might be getting way ahead of ourselves on a long distance kick that was also his very 1st FG attempt in game action this preseason.  

[ballpeen]

Kicking, snapping, and punting are the 3 skill positions on special teams.  All the others are players at various position.  The ST coordinator teaches coverage schemes and what that player does with-in that scheme.  What lane to cover, who might switch up and do some sort of cross over block to open a lane, things like that.

 

I am not saying Bubba doesn't know anything about kicking, but he is just a general coach at those positions.  To go to your golf analogy, you and I might go to a golf pro and take lessons.  Once you get to a certain level, you have pros who teach nothing but putting, or chipping, or whatever.

[Flugel]

14 hours ago, nickers said:

Yeah but didn't Chubb sit behind Saquan Barkley in college if I'm not mistaken?.. Who became the better,available back again?

I should have never brought that Chubb thing up.  I only meant it as a reminder to you of not to make too much out of a very 1st outing.

The RB that backed up Saquan Barkley that I think you were confusing Chubb with is Miles Sanders.  Yes, Barkley is better than Mile Sanders when he's healthy.  At this point in the NFL, the only thing Barkley does better than Chubb is catch the ball/receptions volume.  On the other hand, that extra role/situational down has impacted Barkley's durability and game day availability way more than the Giants wanted it to. That's probably another reason they didn't give him the big new contract aside from not bucking the new NFL trend of not paying this position.  The Browns not only got the better RB IMO - they were also a little better with controlling the wear and tear of their investment.  

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, ballpeen said:

Kicking, snapping, and punting are the 3 skill positions on special teams.  All the others are players at various position.  The ST coordinator teaches coverage schemes and what that player does with-in that scheme.  What lane to cover, who might switch up and do some sort of cross over block to open a lane, things like that.

 

I am not saying Bubba doesn't know anything about kicking, but he is just a general coach at those positions.  To go to your golf analogy, you and I might go to a golf pro and take lessons.  Once you get to a certain level, you have pros who teach nothing but putting, or chipping, or whatever.

Well put!  We're definitely on the same page. There's a lot more to the ST Coordinator job than some may think.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Flugel

[TexasAg1969]

17 hours ago, nickers said:

Yeah but didn't Chubb sit behind Saquan Barkley in college if I'm not mistaken?.. Who became the better,available back again?

Chubb was behind Sony Michel after his terrible knee injury rehab. Made a great one two punch for Georgia.

[nickers]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Chubb was behind Sony Michel after his terrible knee injury rehab. Made a great one two punch for Georgia.

Thats it... I couldn't remember the back... I think Barkley was at Auburn... Getting older sucks lol

[nickers]

3 hours ago, Flugel said:

I should have never brought that Chubb thing up.  I only meant it as a reminder to you of not to make too much out of a very 1st outing.

The RB that backed up Saquan Barkley that I think you were confusing Chubb with is Miles Sanders.  Yes, Barkley is better than Mile Sanders when he's healthy.  At this point in the NFL, the only thing Barkley does better than Chubb is catch the ball/receptions volume.  On the other hand, that extra role/situational down has impacted Barkley's durability and game day availability way more than the Giants wanted it to. That's probably another reason they didn't give him the big new contract aside from not bucking the new NFL trend of not paying this position.  The Browns not only got the better RB IMO - they were also a little better with controlling the wear and tear of their investment.  

Tex helped me out.. I forgot it was Sony Michele... Aging sucks lol

[Dutch Oven]

So perhaps we can move on...

Saquon Barkley played football for Penn State

Nick Chubb played football for Georgia

Charles Barkley played basketball for Auburn 

🤣

[Flugel]

41 minutes ago, nickers said:

Tex helped me out.. I forgot it was Sony Michele... Aging sucks lol

 

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Chubb was behind Sony Michel after his terrible knee injury rehab. Made a great one two punch for Georgia.

Well, here's Chubb's college stats for anyone that thinks he was a backup to anyone when healthy - look at the yards per carry in particular prior to the injury 7.1 as a true freshman and 8.1 as a true sophomore.   That's killer good!  It looks to me like Aggies was trying to point out - that only after Chubb injured his knee that Sony temporarily became the 1st back in a shared work load.  That's correct!  In their 4 year careers at Georgia, Chubb had more carries, averaged more yards per carry, scored more TDs and gained over 1100 more yards than Sony Michel.   

Nick Chubb Rushing & Receiving 

• * indicates bowl stats included

						Rushing				Receiving				Scrimmage
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Rec	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
Career	Georgia					758	4769	6.3	44	31	361	11.6	4	789	5130	6.5	48
*2014	Georgia	SEC	FR	RB	13	219	1547	7.1	14	18	213	11.8	2	237	1760	7.4	16
*2015	Georgia	SEC	SO	RB	6	92	747	8.1	7	4	32	8.0	1	96	779	8.1	8
*2016	Georgia	SEC	JR	RB	13	224	1130	5.0	8	5	86	17.2	1	229	1216	5.3	9
*2017	Georgia	SEC	SR	RB	15	223	1345	6.0	15	4	30	7.5	0	227	1375	6.1	15

 

Sony Michel Rushing & Receiving 

• * indicates bowl stats included

						Rushing				Receiving				Scrimmage
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Rec	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
Career	Georgia					590	3613	6.1	33	64	621	9.7	6	654	4234	6.5	39
*2014	Georgia	SEC	FR	RB	8	64	410	6.4	5	7	106	15.1	1	71	516	7.3	6
*2015	Georgia	SEC	SO	RB	13	218	1136	5.2	8	26	270	10.4	3	244	1406	5.8	11
*2016	Georgia	SEC	JR	RB	12	152	840	5.5	4	22	149	6.8	1	174	989	5.7	5
*2017	Georgia	SEC	SR	RB	14	156	1227	7.9	16	9	96	10.7	1	165	1323	8.0	17

[Flugel]

19 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

So perhaps we can move on...

Saquon Barkley played football for Penn State

Nick Chubb played football for Georgia

Charles Barkley played basketball for Auburn 

🤣

Thank you!   Hopefully we can also come to a group consensus that Chubb wasn't a backup RB!   Having said that, we're learning as we go here that predictability can be very boring up against what can unfold.  Stay tuned???

[Dutch Oven]

24 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Thank you!   Hopefully we can also come to a group consensus that Chubb wasn't a backup RB!   Having said that, we're learning as we go here that predictability can be very boring up against what can unfold.  Stay tuned???

And that Nick Chubb wasn't Saquon Barkley's backup at Auburn.... 😆

[Neo]

On 8/5/2023 at 6:05 AM, ballpeen said:

A kicker can be brought in at any point.  I don't think a missed 50 yard kick in the 1st preseason game is the time.

He's missed some big kicks for us in his career and yes it was a meaningless game but you can see the flags on top of the uprights were completely still. Zero wind and still misses a zero pressure kick in a meaningless game.

[TexasAg1969]

4 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

So perhaps we can move on...

Saquon Barkley played football for Penn State

Nick Chubb played football for Georgia

Charles Barkley played basketball for Auburn 

🤣

I thought Barkley played for the Muppets. Woof Woof!🐶

[Orion]

Didn't Charles Barkley Play golf while dancing?  

[Flugel]

16 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

And that Nick Chubb wasn't Saquon Barkley's backup at Auburn.... 😆

Was that before Herschel Walker won a Heisman Trophy at Rutgers?

[ballpeen]

Phil Dawson Rookie year he was 8 or 12 on Field goals with a long of 49 yards, and 23 of 24 on extra points.  Phils PATs were of much shorter length,
Cade York rookie year he was 24 of 32 on field goals with a long of 58 yards and 35 of 37 on extra points. He was also better on kickoffs. A few of his misses were also blocked kicks which were not his fault..I know many of you remember people complaining about Phil having a weak leg.  LOL...some of you were probably the ones complaining about his weak leg.

 

Cade attempted 7 field goals over 49 yards....he made 4.

 

I think many of you need to reassess your opinions.  Just like the opinions on QB's are outdated, your opinions on kickers are outdated.  QB's now run and play in spread O's and kickers now attempt much longer kicks.  This isn't 1989.  The game has changed.  You need to get with the times.

 

JMO...which is correct I might add..

 

Oh...Lou Grozas longest fieldgoal was 53 yards.  Just saying.

[gumby73]

13 hours ago, Orion said:

Didn't Charles Barkley Play golf while dancing?  

Looks to me,

Cade York may have Barkley's swing hitch problem in his approach to ball

York's, 3 step stride in his approach on a FG is a inconsistent path, along w/body parts trailing different at times..but,

in golf terms.. 'slice' = foot impact not square on ball?  

[ballpeen]

9 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

Looks to me,

Cade York may have Barkley's swing hitch problem in his approach to ball

York's, 3 step stride in his approach on a FG is a inconsistent path, along w/body parts trailing different at times..but,

in golf terms.. 'slice' = foot impact not square on ball?  

In golf, slightly side hill lies impact the shot.  Holds can impact a kicker.  Just a quarter inch off, or slightly more pressure on the hold can change the spin on the ball.  When I see a kicker, who generally get a draw spin on the ball, slice the ball, it makes me think something was off on the hold.

 

Golfers don't have to deal with the lie angle changing on their downswing.  Kickers don't start their motion once the ball is placed.  It starts as soon as the holder touches the ball.  By the time the holder places the ball, the kickers leg is starting the downswing.  

 

Sorry, you just can't adjust to that...we are talking fractions of seconds.  Snappers and holders have a lot to do with the success of a kick.  If a snappers RPM's are off, the holder has to try to spin the laces away from the kick point.  If the holders hold is leaning a bit off, the kickers isn't going to be able to kick in at his flush point.  Leaning towards the kicker, you get more hook spin.  Leaning away a bit, you get straight or slice spin.  Straight sounds good except when the kicker normally draws it back 7 yards.

 

Few golfers actually hit a straight ball.  Actually, none.  A straight ball is a slight mistake in their swing.  A normal shot for them either fades or draws to some degree.  That club either comes  in slightly inside or outside the ball on a stock shot.  Jack hit a stock fade.  Arnie hit a stock draw.

[Orion]

8 hours ago, ballpeen said:

Few golfers actually hit a straight ball

Chi-Chi Rodriquez said, I always play either a draw or a fade.  I never play a straight shot because I won't know which way the ball is going to go.