John Football Excuses Forum....

[TexasAg1969]

I believe JM did not understand and/or was not willing the effort required to QB at the NFL level. If true, it naturally follows that he did not put forth the required discretionary effort. It matters not what he did with that time that effort would have required, if it did not go towards preparing him for the NFL.

 

Watching JM I get the feeling he truly believed he'd waltz in as is and "wreck this league".

 

The only questions left are:

- Does JM now truly understand what it takes?

- Is he willing to pay that price?

- Is it too late?

 

Won't know those answers for at least 8 months.

 

JM has admitted as of yesterday that he has learned more sitting on the bench than in his prior 22 years learning football. He specifically mentioned that he had not understood the kind and amount of work that it takes to become an NFL QB until watching BH and all that he does to prepare. The implication is that if the Browns give him a chance he will do all of those things to become that NFL QB the Browns want now that he really understands it. Pretty much validated what you said above, that he had no inkling of what it took and thought he could just come in and "wreck this league".

 

I realize that most here think that will not matter due to his limitations. So if the Browns are unwilling to go that extra mile then they need to find out his trade value immediately. Conner Shaw would be an adequate replacement, so why not just get it over and say he had his chance already. I really do think that at least 1 team would give up a 3rd rounder for him which would give the Browns another decent lineman draft which is more desperately needed.

[Zombo]

[Mudfly]

The only questions left are:

- Does JM now truly understand what it takes?

- Is he willing to pay that price?

- Is it too late?

 

Won't know those answers for at least 8 months.

Nope. We'll get a glimpse of the off season soon enough though. Lets hope its not on TMZ.....

 

I do think the one "silver lining" in all this is that Johnny's glimmer has faded some.....so maybe he'll be less in the spotlight just because of that....

 

Conner Shaw would be an adequate replacement, so why not just get it over and say he had his chance already. I really do think that at least 1 team would give up a 3rd rounder for him which would give the Browns another decent lineman draft which is more desperately needed.

You always were the more reasonable one....

 

Personally, Id prefer to see him stay and try one more time, as opposed to just giving up on him. Especially since, right now, there isn't another obvious QB to carry this team. Its still wide open. I think he'll work hard and keep his nose clean. But I honestly think he's too limited to be great, but deserves the chance to prove otherwise.

 

BUT....give me something good and Id let him go in a hot minute!!!....2nd rounder?, hell yes!......use him & a 1st to move up?, yep!....but 3rd round, 4th round?.....Im not so sure....

 

In the end, if they do take one of those types of picks, it does mean they think he's hopeless

[TexasAg1969]

Z-LOLOLOLOLOLOL!! :lol: :lol:

[MasterDog]

He'll never be a solid starting QB in this league.

How do i know? Because he will never be able to do the things that's required to succeed in this level. I don't think most of you knuckleheads know what it takes to play QB in this league. If you do, you won't even suggest drafting this midget in the first play. All you see on these youtube highlight wheel is a little white boy running around making everyone look silly. But this type of game simply won't translate in the pro level. We've seen guys with similar game who are more athletic (RG3), bigger (Tebow) & faster (Vick) try with limited long term success.

 

And across town, we have never embraced this kid coming out of Louisville that we could had taken TWICE who has just completed 70% of his passes 4 straight game (never been done by a rookie) versus top passing defenses. Here's a nice piece on what Bridgewater did this past weekend. Some of the highlighted plays Bridgewater made is NFL starter stuff. These are things Manziel have never done and will probably never will because the little midget thinks he can simply take off and use his underwhelming athleticism to overcome the situation.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2306976-teddy-bridgewater-emerging-as-nfls-top-rookie-quarterback

[TexasAg1969]

 

You always were the more reasonable one....

 

In the end, if they do take one of those types of picks, it does mean they think he's hopeless

 

Thanks for the complement.

 

I personally feel that his history shows that once he truly learns there is another step to take, then he puts everything he has into making the correction.

 

1. Mack Brown would only take him as a safety out of HS. He felt he could be a good QB and spent a year on the scout team become that on the college level.

 

2. After he won the Heisman he realized he needed to become a better pocket passer and run for less yardage so he worked his butt off to change that too.

 

3. Now he realizes once again that he has another step to take that he did not know was there coming into the league, an even stronger off time work ethic than he had never understood before (part of becoming a mature man instead of just a 22 y.o. kid one year too soon out of college).

 

I think he can take that next step now that he has had an epiphany. But I also think than shanny is going to get him hurt with these designed QB run plays. He would be better off doing this elsewhere with a new start and a clean slate on another team and less chance of an idiot purposefully running him into a career ending injury. That last play proved all I needed to know about shanny. That was just plain beyond belief.

[OldBrownsFan]

I hope you are right. I wish JM the best and a new start with a new team. Hoyer is a good fit with the Browns and I will be disappointed if he is not back next year. Can't look back on passing on Bridgewater it is done and over. Even though Manziel has had a horrible entrance in the NFL I believe anything is possible with drive and determination. Some of my complaints against Manziel I have to realize how young he is and I am trying to instill wisdom to be honest I did not even have myself at his age.

[JohnnyCollegeFootball2]

Bridgewater or Carr was the pick. Johnny Football will be lucky if he ever starts a game in the NFL again, and even if he does, I'm not sure it will be a good thing for the Browns

[hoorta]

 

If you want to shit talk, shit talk the empirical proof that he didn't help us win games on the field.

 

 

But the point is that he didn't party...and he didn't back up his game. People are STILL complaining about his off-the-field issues, yet there haven't been any. He built no machine. The media built that machine and you fuckers just loved feeding into it. He kept his head down, by all accounts he worked hard in practice and in the film room and he still sucked.

 

So, talk about how he looks paranoid in the pocket. Talk about how he can't read a defense.Talk about how his skills probably don't transfer to the NFL. But don't talk about how he deserves to look shitty because he didn't prepare and he "built this machine".

 

 

You're all the reason MKC still has a job, and that's completely unforgivable.

 

Correct- Manziel didn't help us win games.

 

 

the media twisted his arm during his collegiate career and made him come up with his patented 'money sign'? they twisted his arm to do commercials and magazine covers?

 

that's the machine he and his agent have built.

 

yeah that big yellow road grater coming his way......oops!

 

shoulda been a matador. right size and race.

 

Don't make excuses for JF Mr. Couch. The media circus certainly was mainly Manziel's doing. Johnny Football © Yeah TC, the media created that one. Sucked up the attention like a dry sponge. Only a college kid that won a Heisman? So did Mariota, funny he managed to largely keep out of the spotlight. For that matter, so did Andrew Luck when he was at Stanford.

 

Guys like LeBron, Jeter, and Peyton Manning are WAY higher profile than the Midget, & have no trouble keeping their private lives- private. Guess Johnny found out the hard way once you turn the TMZ spotlight on yourself, it's mighty hard to turn it off.

[TexasAg1969]

 

Correct- Manziel didn't help us win games.

 

 

Don't make excuses for JF Mr. Couch. The media circus certainly was mainly Manziel's doing. Sucked up the attention like a dry sponge. Only a college kid that won a Heisman? So did Mariota, funny he managed to largely keep out of the spotlight. For that matter, so did Andrew Luck when he was at Stanford.

 

 

Let's at least be a little accurate here. He is the first college kid to actually win it as a college kid of 19 (he turned 20 the week it was awarded). And the money sign was actually started by teammate Ben Malena who started using it with JM every time he or JM scored. and he was not allowed to even speak to the media until that Heisman season was actually over per direct orders from Sumlin. The circus was started by his play, not his mouth.

[jcam222]

I'd love to see us at a solid right tackle and then a backup center for development in the upcoming draft. Call me crazy but I still believe that with Alex Mack in the lineup the Browns win the division

[MasterDog]

 

Let's at least be a little accurate here. He is the first college kid to actually win it as a college kid of 19 (he turned 20 the week it was awarded). And the money sign was actually started by teammate Ben Malena who started using it with JM every time he or JM scored. and he was not allowed to even speak to the media until that Heisman season was actually over per direct orders from Sumlin. The circus was started by his play, not his mouth.

 

Still living in the college days.

Timmy Chang was one of the most prolific college passing QB ever. Where is he now????

Stats from college means nothing...absolute nothing.

 

4.61 might be fast in college but it's nothing in the NFL.

[USFBrown]

 

I didn't realize you can infer someone's motivations based off of an admission. When I was 8, I admitted to stealing a Pokemon card from my friend. Should have locked my up then, I didn't want to be a non-stealer.

Not too hard to comprehend. He stated he didn't prepare as well as he should have That to me shows a lack of motivation.

 

Judging by your analogy, which compares a child's actions to an adults, you don't understand what motivation means.

 

 

Motivation is a theoretical construct used to explain behavior. It is the scientific word used to represent the reasons for our actions, our desires, and our needs. Motivation can also be defined as our direction to our behavior or what causes us to want to repeat a behavior and vice versa.^[1] A motive is what prompts a person to act in a certain way or at least develop an inclination for specific behavior.

[TexasAg1969]

 

Still living in the college days.

Timmy Chang was one of the most prolific college passing QB ever. Where is he now????

Stats from college means nothing...absolute nothing.

 

4.61 might be fast in college but it's nothing in the NFL.

 

No MD I was responding to the "college" remarks to at least make them accurate.

 

I think my posts pretty much reflect the pro game JM is now in unless someone else inaccurately refers back to his college days.

No one else has ever had to deal with a Heisman so early (or so poorly) until JW at FSU and we can all see how poorly he is handling it too.

[Westside Steve]

 

Not too hard to comprehend. He stated he didn't prepare as well as he should have That to me shows a lack of motivation.

[/font][/color]

Just from my own experience with the band. There's a particular song we do every year. It's complicated but... Anyway we gave it the usual amount of rehearsal 2 years ago. I've sung it plenty of times without a hitch. At the show I fucked up and went to the third verse after the first. It wasn't a train wreck but I was pissed off at myself. I guess in hindsight I should have gone over it a couple more times at rehearsal. It doesn't mean I didn't give a fuck it meant that looking back over something that didn't go as well as I'd hoped yes maybe I should have done something differently.

 

WSS

[browns52]

I hope you are right. I wish JM the best and a new start with a new team. Hoyer is a good fit with the Browns and I will be disappointed if he is not back next year. Can't look back on passing on Bridgewater it is done and over. Even though Manziel has had a horrible entrance in the NFL I believe anything is possible with drive and determination. Some of my complaints against Manziel I have to realize how young he is and I am trying to instill wisdom to be honest I did not even have myself at his age.

after getting benched which i thought was not a good move, hoyer will not be back...why would he...the organization lost confidence in him so he will always continue to be looking over his shoulder, which is not a good way to play any position in the nfl...he ain't comin back...

[browns52]

He'll never be a solid starting QB in this league.

How do i know? Because he will never be able to do the things that's required to succeed in this level. I don't think most of you knuckleheads know what it takes to play QB in this league. If you do, you won't even suggest drafting this midget in the first play. All you see on these youtube highlight wheel is a little white boy running around making everyone look silly. But this type of game simply won't translate in the pro level. We've seen guys with similar game who are more athletic (RG3), bigger (Tebow) & faster (Vick) try with limited long term success.

 

And across town, we have never embraced this kid coming out of Louisville that we could had taken TWICE who has just completed 70% of his passes 4 straight game (never been done by a rookie) versus top passing defenses. Here's a nice piece on what Bridgewater did this past weekend. Some of the highlighted plays Bridgewater made is NFL starter stuff. These are things Manziel have never done and will probably never will because the little midget thinks he can simply take off and use his underwhelming athleticism to overcome the situation.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2306976-teddy-bridgewater-emerging-as-nfls-top-rookie-quarterback

i have to laugh at these boneheads saying that johnny feeble did not know he had to take the next step....how many fucking times do you hear it from hall of famers and current to be hall of fame qbs saying that you have to take the next step...the midge knew he had to take the next step, but decided to go and party in vegas and show me the money bullshit instead...but guess what, he's going to be a rich midget regardless of his bullshit..

[TexasAg1969]

OK time for a "Little Johnny" joke.

 

Foul mouthed Little Johnny was in history class one day and the teacher asked if anyone in the class knew anyone who had served in Vietnam. Little Johnny was the only one raising his hand so the teacher very reluctantly called on him. Little Johnny reported to the class, "I had an uncle that served in Vietnam and they shot his ass off!" The teacher politely corrected him saying, "It's rectum Johnny, rectum." Little Johnny emphatically replied, "Wrecked him hell! They killed the motherfucker!"

 

So know you know where "wreck this league" originated. :lol:

[hoorta]

after getting benched which i thought was not a good move, hoyer will not be back...why would he...the organization lost confidence in him so he will always continue to be looking over his shoulder, which is not a good way to play any position in the nfl...he ain't comin back...

 

I'm not 100% certain Hoyer won't be back. If Farmer and Pettine flat out tell Brian- hey, we don't think you're starter material in the NFL. We're going to offer you a 2 year contract at top backup money. Interested? If Hoyer thinks he can land a starting job somewhere at starter pay (I seriously doubt it) we let him walk.

[MasterDog]

 

I'm not 100% certain Hoyer won't be back. If Farmer and Pettine flat out tell Brian- hey, we don't think you're starter material in the NFL. We're going to offer you a 2 year contract at top backup money. Interested? If Hoyer thinks he can land a starting job somewhere at starter pay (I seriously doubt it) we let him walk.

Hoyer looks like a guy that will take a hometown discount because he genuinely love being a Brown. No, i won't be one bit surprise if he takes a 2 year contract and get toss around like a rag doll because of his love for the city. Again, this is my thoughts.

[Johnny Football]

So you start Hoyer all season... realize he's terrible 13 games in. Then you start me when the entire league is already in rhythm, putting me in an impossible situation to succeed with the leagues worst o-line and receivers who can't catch a cold. Now all you know is that Hoyer sucks and that I might suck, but you can't move me because I'm cheap and you're not 100% sure that I won't figure it out. Also, you can't keep Hoyer around and you won't draft another rookie QB. Meanwhile, the defense has regressed and your star receiver seems like he sucks now. The locker room is split and you won too many games to get a great pick this year. You have to try really hard to be this bad. lol You are the Browns and I am rich!

[Aggie Brown fan]

This thread has gotten huge, but its probably the best place to put this.

 

I was finally able to watch the game on NFL rewind, and Johnny, to my surprise, didn't look terrible. Hell, in relation to the Cincy game, he looked much better. I agree, it's still not good enough, but there were signs of improvement.

 

I really don't understand the play call that lead to the injury, just dumb, but Johnny should have slid when he realized the play was beaten. He won't last if he doesn't learn from that. Likewise, he won't last running naked bootleg sweeps.

 

This year can be viewed certain ways. Many will view it as proof that Johnny sucks and that he is a wasted pick. Though I think that is a valid view, I think it is too easy, and might be based too much on emotion. And yes, I'll admit that as a Manzealot, emotion has played a large role in my belief that Johnny will be great.

 

In trying to strip away the emotion, though, I think the way to view this season is that it was always going to be a building season. This team wasn't going to win a Super Bowl, and that is the ultimate goal. The Browns exceeded expectations despite lackluster qb play. They were able to see that Hoyer can win games despite his limitations. They also see that Johnny has a long way to go.

 

I think both those guys will be Browns again next season, and will both be better players because of this season. I'm not sure of all the needs the draft can meet, but I don't think the Browns should make any drastic moves to get another qb unless Winston, Mariota or Hundley fell into their laps.

 

Johnny should be full of motivation to prove his detractors wrong, and if he looks bad again next season, after a whole off-season to learn the offense and get better, there's no good excuse. The Johnny Football experiment can be deemed a failure and he can be kicked to the curb.

[D Bone]

if he looks bad again next season, after a whole off-season to learn the offense and get better, there's no good excuse

 

Oh come on, don't short change yourselves. You Johnny Fanboys will most certainly come up with something.

[tiamat63]

This thread has gotten huge, but its probably the best place to put this.

 

I was finally able to watch the game on NFL rewind, and Johnny, to my surprise, didn't look terrible. Hell, in relation to the Cincy game, he looked much better. I agree, it's still not good enough, but there were signs of improvement.

 

 

Aside from actually forcing himself to stand in the pocket, what signs did you see? I'm curious because the only quality throw I witnessed was made possible by a DB tripping over his own two feet.

[Aggie Brown fan]

 

Aside from actually forcing himself to stand in the pocket, what signs did you see? I'm curious because the only quality throw I witnessed was made possible by a DB tripping over his own two feet.

Admittedly, it would be hard not to be better than the Cincy game, but if you couldn't see improvement, you're just blind.

[MasterDog]

Looks like Johnny got word it's quite possible his days as a starter in Cleveland might be over.

For him to publicly say this right before the season end says a lot. The lies are up. He knows it, management knows it and now the fans do too. The guy's head was never on football since day one.

 

From Rotoworld:

Johnny Manziel admits he has to take being a pro "a lot more seriously than maybe I did at (first)."

In expansive comments Tuesday, Manziel was both contrite and somewhat defiant. "This is a job for me now," Manziel said. "I haven't painted the greatest picture of me of being in here and staying on top of myself." Manziel also implored the Browns to stick with him, saying "I don't think it would be fair to give up on somebody after seven quarters of football." The Browns' commitment to Manziel for 2015 is very much an open question.

[Tobalaz]

Well I wasn't impressed with the kid in college, didn't want us to take Johnny Frodo for one second but if he came in and was an instant smash scoring touchdowns upon touchdowns every Browns fan would be doing the money sign every chance they got.

That being said, I don't care who the qb is so long as we're winning.

[HoundDawg]

Looks like Johnny got word it's quite possible his days as a starter in Cleveland might be over.

For him to publicly say this right before the season end says a lot. The lies are up. He knows it, management knows it and now the fans do too. The guy's head was never on football since day one.

 

From Rotoworld:

Johnny Manziel admits he has to take being a pro "a lot more seriously than maybe I did at (first)."

In expansive comments Tuesday, Manziel was both contrite and somewhat defiant. "This is a job for me now," Manziel said. "I haven't painted the greatest picture of me of being in here and staying on top of myself." Manziel also implored the Browns to stick with him, saying "I don't think it would be fair to give up on somebody after seven quarters of football." The Browns' commitment to Manziel for 2015 is very much an open question.

This is a job for me NOW? Well golly gee whiz, WTF was it when you were cashing your game checks all season? He expects the Browns to commit to him after he couldn't be bothered to make the same commitment to his craft and his employer? This is unacceptable. And it isn't just applicable to him apparently. It goes for Gilbert, too. This football team is not good enough to hand hold these grown men and convince them they have to take this stuff seriously. Two of the hardest and most important positions on the field to learn and they aren't serious about doing it? There are a lot of Browns fans who work their butts off to have the money to buy game tickets and we should be ok with I need to "take it a lot more seriously"? Get the flick outta here with that BS.

[hoorta]

 

Let's at least be a little accurate here. He is the first college kid to actually win it as a college kid of 19 (he turned 20 the week it was awarded). And the money sign was actually started by teammate Ben Malena who started using it with JM every time he or JM scored. and he was not allowed to even speak to the media until that Heisman season was actually over per direct orders from Sumlin. The circus was started by his play, not his mouth.

 

I'm going to rehash this one last time Ag. Let's just say I disagree.

 

 

No MD I was responding to the "college" remarks to at least make them accurate.

 

I think my posts pretty much reflect the pro game JM is now in unless someone else inaccurately refers back to his college days.

No one else has ever had to deal with a Heisman so early (or so poorly) until JW at FSU and we can all see how poorly he is handling it too.

 

Not so. If you looked at some of my other examples- plenty of HS and 18 year old athletic phenoms have shunned the spotlight & shown a1\2 ounce of humility- Manziel not only embraced it- he reveled in it. LeBron was even higher profile than JF- at an even younger age. Shit- he was working out with the Cavs when he was in grade school. Freaking sold out University of Dayton Arena (14k) when St Vincent-St Mary brought the LeBron show to town. Don't think Manziel was good enough to work out with the Cowboys- hell, the Longhorns thought so little of him, he wound up at A&M. LBJ was the biggest thing to hit the pro ranks since Tiger Woods- example #2. Guys like Campy Russell and Austin Carr broke down crying when the lucky Lottery ball popped out for the Cavs. So no, excuse me if I happen to think JF acted like a Frat Boy on a drunken binge hanging out with his bimbos- with the cameras on, and tacitly approved of it. LeBron never saw the need to Copyrite "The Chosen One" either.

 

Johnny's dug himself into a celebrity Black Hole so deep he'll find difficult to dig out of- unless he starts playing like Russell Wilson pronto. In case you didn't know- He's widely hated on a National level because of his jerkdom. Got several people at work- who hate his guts, and yeah- the Panther's fans made enough of a whooping it up scene when he got hurt- Cam (very classily) had to apologize for it. Don't care if he didn't start the Money Sign- opposing DEs like the Bengals are going to love shoving it in his face every time he gets sacked. Perhaps he should drop it- before someone breaks him in half.

 

 

Looks like Johnny got word it's quite possible his days as a starter in Cleveland might be over.

For him to publicly say this right before the season end says a lot. The lies are up. He knows it, management knows it and now the fans do too. The guy's head was never on football since day one.

 

From Rotoworld:

Johnny Manziel admits he has to take being a pro "a lot more seriously than maybe I did at (first)."

In expansive comments Tuesday, Manziel was both contrite and somewhat defiant. "This is a job for me now," Manziel said. "I haven't painted the greatest picture of me of being in here and staying on top of myself." Manziel also implored the Browns to stick with him, saying "I don't think it would be fair to give up on somebody after seven quarters of football." The Browns' commitment to Manziel for 2015 is very much an open question.

 

 

Gee goober- you should have figured that out- say- sometime around the Combine. Seems ya found out the hard way what us nasty old curmudgeons were saying all along- Heisman's don't mean shit in the NFL- neither do College stats. Can tell you one thing Johnny- the starting job sure as hell won't be handed to you come next year. And don't get your ego all hurt yet again if Farmer & Pettine think so little of your potential they draft another quarterback in April.

 

Um getting back to what I said- you got yourself a heaping helping of humble pie crammed down your throat JFF. Better late than never, I suppose.

[NEPatriots]

This thread has gotten huge, but its probably the best place to put this.

 

I was finally able to watch the game on NFL rewind, and Johnny, to my surprise, didn't look terrible. Hell, in relation to the Cincy game, he looked much better. I agree, it's still not good enough, but there were signs of improvement.

 

I really don't understand the play call that lead to the injury, just dumb, but Johnny should have slid when he realized the play was beaten. He won't last if he doesn't learn from that. Likewise, he won't last running naked bootleg sweeps.

 

This year can be viewed certain ways. Many will view it as proof that Johnny sucks and that he is a wasted pick. Though I think that is a valid view, I think it is too easy, and might be based too much on emotion. And yes, I'll admit that as a Manzealot, emotion has played a large role in my belief that Johnny will be great.

 

In trying to strip away the emotion, though, I think the way to view this season is that it was always going to be a building season. This team wasn't going to win a Super Bowl, and that is the ultimate goal. The Browns exceeded expectations despite lackluster qb play. They were able to see that Hoyer can win games despite his limitations. They also see that Johnny has a long way to go.

 

I think both those guys will be Browns again next season, and will both be better players because of this season. I'm not sure of all the needs the draft can meet, but I don't think the Browns should make any drastic moves to get another qb unless Winston, Mariota or Hundley fell into their laps.

 

Johnny should be full of motivation to prove his detractors wrong, and if he looks bad again next season, after a whole off-season to learn the offense and get better, there's no good excuse. The Johnny Football experiment can be deemed a failure and he can be kicked to the curb.

 

Really? I shudder to think what you consider terrible.

 

Johnny Manziel looks like a fan ran on the field wearing a Browns uniform