The Gipper Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 They misused Mingo too????.....He was the primary cover backer and seemed to excel at it....and everyone screamed and lost their minds when Kruger was asked to cover....so if not Kruger or Mingo, then who???? To me, that is what inside LBs are for. Mingo needs to be sic'd on the QB imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Our next QB is always in the next draft. (that is because there are none in this draft worth it...unless we get them at a lower pick) And actually...I did a list on it....nearly 1/2 of the Super Bowl winning QBs were not with the team that drafted them....including the guy that won Sunday. FWIW, I'd take deshaun watson in 2017, at this point. Yea, not sure why he didn't make this list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 (that is because there are none in this draft worth it...unless we get them at a lower pick) It was a sarcastic remark about how every year we should wait until next year because there are some great QBs coming out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 If there is a glorious glamorous sure-fire once-in-a-decade QB prospect in next year's draft, then I'm not sure why anybody would think we can get him - assuming we won't be picking #1 overall next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 To me, that is what inside LBs are for. Mingo needs to be sic'd on the QB imo. eh....he'd just bounce off the QB anyway.....olb's cover a lot.....esp the great ones who are 3 tool players.....I guess if all your LB's can only rush, then you have very limited LB's(which we do).....and if they both rush every play, then you have an extremely limited defensive scheme, because the other team knows whats coming everytime....also makes for extra easy mismatches and blocking schemes for the opponent.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 If there is a glorious glamorous sure-fire once-in-a-decade QB prospect in next year's draft, then I'm not sure why anybody would think we can get him - assuming we won't be picking #1 overall next year. Unfortunately that's been said before. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 It was a sarcastic remark about how every year we should wait until next year because there are some great QBs coming out. And that is why I am saying that the draft may not be the place to get a QB. Here is a bit of history for you regarding Browns QBs that led them to playoffs: The Browns did not get Otto Graham in the draft. He was the Lions pick in 1944. He decided to join the Browns as a FA. The Browns did not get Tommy O'Connell in the draft. He was a Bears pick. Not sure if Browns got him in trade or what. The Browns did not get Frank Ryan in the draft. Our QB in the 1964 Championship team. They traded with the Rams for him. The Browns did not get Bill Nelsen in the draft. They traded with the Steelers to get him, believe it or not. Took Browns to several playoff appearances. Technically the Browns did not get Bernie Kosar in the draft. He was taken in the Supplemental draft after a trade with Buffalo. The Browns did not get Vinny Testaverde in the draft. I think he was a free agent. The Browns did not get Kelly Holcomb in the draft. I think he also was a FA. The only Browns QBs that were drafted by them that took them to the playoffs were: Milt Plum.....one year in playoffs.....ejected in favor of Ryan. Mike Phipps...one year in playoffs....ejected in favor of Sipe Brian Sipe....thirteenth round pick.....would be UDFA today....only one year in playoffs. Tim Couch? You can say he led the Browns to the playoffs as he was primary QB the year they went...though he could not play in the postseason game due to injury. Bottom line: in their history the Browns have not relied on drafted QBs who became their best QBs. So, they CAN look elsewhere in trade or FA and be successful. They always have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 eh....he'd just bounce off the QB anyway.....olb's cover a lot.....esp the great ones who are 3 tool players.....I guess if all your LB's can only rush, then you have very limited LB's(which we do).....and if they both rush every play, then you have an extremely limited defensive scheme, because the other team knows whats coming everytime....also makes for extra easy mismatches and blocking schemes for the opponent.... Well...whatever else he may be able to do...or not...lets at least start asking him to rush the passer. See another thread on the HOF: Kevin Greene just selected for the HOF. He only had 669 tackle his entire career....but had 169 sacks. 25% of his tackles were sacks. So, JUST being a very successful pass rusher can actually get you somewhere...to the HOF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 So if Johnny is charged and convicted he will probably serve at least a year suspension from the NFL. That year will not count against the contract with the Cleveland Browns and during that time, and at least some jail time, he will be able to make a serious attempt at reforming. No cost to the Browns during the suspension. Returns to the Browns with a new lease on life and new attitude a la Josh Gordon. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 So if Johnny is charged and convicted he will probably serve at least a year suspension from the NFL. That year will not count against the contract with the Cleveland Browns and during that time, and at least some jail time, he will be able to make a serious attempt at reforming. No cost to the Browns during the suspension. Returns to the Browns with a new lease on life and new attitude a la Josh Gordon. WSS How did this get on this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 So, JUST being a very successful pass rusher can actually get you somewhere...to the HOF. I would only argue that his stats indicate that he's not a very successful pass rusher....So yeah, when you have a Kevin Greene, you utilize that talent and use him as a designated pass rusher....but Mingo aint that guy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I would only argue that his stats indicate that he's not a very successful pass rusher....So yeah, when you have a Kevin Greene, you utilize that talent and use him as a designated pass rusher....but Mingo aint that guy.... Well, my argument is that we don't know if he is or isn't that guy. Sure, he may not be as prolific as a Kevin Greene.....but at least let him loose to see what he can be. Then if he fails fine.....move along, move along....he is not the droid we are looking for. (or maybe he is?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Well, my argument is that we don't know if he is or isn't that guy. Sure, he may not be as prolific as a Kevin Greene.....but at least let him loose to see what he can be. Then if he fails fine.....move along, move along....he is not the droid we are looking for. (or maybe he is?) He's had three years, and seven sacks. Pretty safe to say he isn't I think. But, he's under contract, he can cover well enough, I don't mind keeping him around for the final year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 How did this get on this thread?Didn't you just rattle off about 15000 Browns quarterbacks and how they got here and a bunch of stuff about pass rush and sacks etcetera etcetera etcetera? Figured offtopic door has been opened WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 He's had three years, and seven sacks. Pretty safe to say he isn't I think. But, he's under contract, he can cover well enough, I don't mind keeping him around for the final year. exactly.... he has100 tackles and 7 sacks in 3 years....those are 1 year numbers for a top LB.....Should have way more tackles, but Ive seen him miss so many tackles it's not even funny anymore..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 So if Johnny is charged and convicted he will probably serve at least a year suspension from the NFL. That year will not count against the contract with the Cleveland Browns and during that time, and at least some jail time, he will be able to make a serious attempt at reforming. No cost to the Browns during the suspension. Returns to the Browns with a new lease on life and new attitude a la Josh Gordon. WSS Best case from the browns POV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I think the Browns will still try to cut Johnny on March 9th asap, as there's a chance the NFL can put him on paid leave (or so I've read). If the league put him on paid leave we'd be unable to cut him and still be responsible for his salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I think the Browns will still try to cut Johnny on March 9th asap, as there's a chance the NFL can put him on paid leave (or so I've read). If the league put him on paid leave we'd be unable to cut him and still be responsible for his salary. Paid leave? Is that a thing? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Paid leave? Is that a thing? WSS I don't know the details, but I saw some articles saying it was a possibility for both McCoy beating up a cop and Manziel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Paid leave? Is that a thing? WSS Like with AP, it was the commissioner's exempt list, or some shit like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 He's had three years, and seven sacks. Pretty safe to say he isn't I think. But, he's under contract, he can cover well enough, I don't mind keeping him around for the final year. Safer to say that we have no clue how well he could do as a pass rusher, since he has never been allowed to do it. Let him loose to do that....and if he fails, then give up the ghost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Safer to say that we have no clue how well he could do as a pass rusher, since he has never been allowed to do it. Let him loose to do that....and if he fails, then give up the ghost. OK, you go ahead and pin your hopes for the franchise on Mingo and a 3rd round QB. I'll just be over here thinking we need to get, you know, good players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 OK, you go ahead and pin your hopes for the franchise on Mingo and a 3rd round QB. I'll just be over here thinking we need to get, you know, good players. Right....Orchard clearly is the better LB and was able to get to the QB much easier....and is WAY better against the run, an area where Kruger and Mingo are pathetic, at best....and, in terms of pass rushing alone, AB - Kruger - Orchard are much much better than Mingo... Mingo has rushed the passer plenty...though it may not seem that way because he never gets there.... We need another OLB to play opposite Orchard in the worst way......to me, it's priority #1 on the Defense.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 As an aside, I think Camp Cook should be changed to Camp OLB..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 OK, you go ahead and pin your hopes for the franchise on Mingo and a 3rd round QB. I'll just be over here thinking we need to get, you know, good players. Yea, like the guy I really want: Bosa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Right....Orchard clearly is the better LB and was able to get to the QB much easier....and is WAY better against the run, an area where Kruger and Mingo are pathetic, at best....and, in terms of pass rushing alone, AB - Kruger - Orchard are much much better than Mingo... Mingo has rushed the passer plenty...though it may not seem that way because he never gets there.... We need another OLB to play opposite Orchard in the worst way......to me, it's priority #1 on the Defense.... Or....we need Bosa. That would alleviate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Or....we need Bosa. That would alleviate that. What, in your dutiful analysis, points the to the fact that Joey Bosa would be the best fit for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 What, in your dutiful analysis, points the to the fact that Joey Bosa would be the best fit for us. We need a killer on defense. He is rated a more sure fire thing that even Clowney was coming out. While we have some OK DE's, I think he would be a vast improvement over what we have. And you take the best player available (and hell...he may NOT be available) I think the Browns biggest needs in this draft include QB, WR, ILB, and DL. You know my view about these QBs.....late first round talent. No ILB rates that high until you get to Ragland....who would be mid round talent. No WR rates the #2. If we were drafting # 10 ish....OK. If you could find a way to trade our #2 to where we could get 3 first rounders in the mid area, then I would like to see Ragland, Treadwell and one of the QBs......but find that trade. Otherwise you take the players worthy of top 3: we don't need Tunsil.....the Tits do. Jalen Ramsey? I would rather keep the known commodity in Gipson. So Bosa, BPA, fits best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 We need a killer on defense. He is rated a more sure fire thing that even Clowney was coming out. While we have some OK DE's, I think he would be a vast improvement over what we have. And you take the best player available (and hell...he may NOT be available) I think the Browns biggest needs in this draft include QB, WR, ILB, and DL. You know my view about these QBs.....late first round talent. No ILB rates that high until you get to Ragland....who would be mid round talent. No WR rates the #2. If we were drafting # 10 ish....OK. If you could find a way to trade our #2 to where we could get 3 first rounders in the mid area, then I would like to see Ragland, Treadwell and one of the QBs......but find that trade. Otherwise you take the players worthy of top 3: we don't need Tunsil.....the Tits do. Jalen Ramsey? I would rather keep the known commodity in Gipson. So Bosa, BPA, fits best. So, other people tell he is a sure thing? Maybe for a 4-3 team but as OLB he'd be asked to drop in to coverage and I'm not sure he's capable of that. I don't doubt he'll be a good player somewhere, but for Horton's system it's not a lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 We need a killer on defense. He is rated a more sure fire thing that even Clowney was coming out. While we have some OK DE's, I think he would be a vast improvement over what we have. And you take the best player available (and hell...he may NOT be available) I think the Browns biggest needs in this draft include QB, WR, ILB, and DL. You know my view about these QBs.....late first round talent. No ILB rates that high until you get to Ragland....who would be mid round talent. No WR rates the #2. If we were drafting # 10 ish....OK. If you could find a way to trade our #2 to where we could get 3 first rounders in the mid area, then I would like to see Ragland, Treadwell and one of the QBs......but find that trade. Otherwise you take the players worthy of top 3: we don't need Tunsil.....the Tits do. Jalen Ramsey? I would rather keep the known commodity in Gipson. So Bosa, BPA, fits best. Right. But what, in your analysis, makes him a "killer" and a fit for this team. What skills and techniques does he possess that would benefit him in the role we would likely ask him to play - namely, a 3-4 OLBer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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