The Gipper Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Well I dont think our OLBs are anywhere near sufficient and would be much happier standing pat at DL than I would at LB....honestly dont even feel our OLB's are NFL starter quality, let alone "good"....except Orchard who looks like he could develop into a good one.... Well, fair enough. But when it comes to drafting....I still want the best player available. If we are killer at DE...it may help make up for the lack of talent at OLB a bit. I think most sacks(a high percentage) come from linebackers and edge rushers....and DL, especially in a 3-4, is used more to occupy blockers and push the pockets....while the LB's make the plays.... And I do understand what you're saying...which is, if Bosa is the best rated defender and we need defenders, then he's the player we should pick....I just disagree that he's a good fit or that he's "that" much better than the next guy....how big of a difference can there be between players ranked one or 2 spots apart...not much.... Well, you see, this is the thing about rankings. You have a guy rated #1....and obviously you have a guy rated #2 and #3. But, again, just because someone is ranked #2 does not necessarily mean he is practically as good as the #1 guy. An absurd example?: Peyton Manning was rated #1 the year he was taken....and Ryan Leaf was #2. So, that must mean that Leaf was almost just as good as Peyton, right? No. If you have generational talent....which Bosa may be.....you don't settle for #2....unless you have no choice (i.e. if the Tits are smart and do take him #1) But, at this point, it's clear well never agree....so Ill go my way and pray for LB's and you go your way and pray for a DE.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 It surprises me that you know what a read option is. After all, it's not covered under "blocking" or "tackling" sections of Watching Football For Dummies. I know what a dickhead is. With a mirror you will get to observe one as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I know what a dickhead is. With a mirror you will get to observe one as well. Is it something you haven't seen in 40 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 This is getting hot and steamy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Is it something you haven't seen in 40 years? I suspect, even at my age, that mine gets more of a workout than yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I suspect, even at my age, that mine gets more of a workout than yours. Single "handedly" keeping the lotion business afloat. Congrats, Gip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Make-Believe Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I keep seeing BPA being tossed out there. To me, that's impossible to determine when dealing with such vastly different roles. I prefer BPI: Biggest Positive Impact Maybe an offensive lineman is the top player in the draft. But would an O-Line guy have a bigger positive impact on the Browns than a good QB or a star edge rusher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 And I think Sheldon Rankings is a better 3-4 DE prospect than Bosa... I'm not a Nassib guy at all. Yea, sure....and the Dave Clark 5 was a better band than the Beatles. Point is, as you know, schemes matter. Bosa would be an upgrade over Kruger in Krug's historic role, but as we talked last season, with Krugs in the line-up we were a 3-4 in name only. Make it official... swap to a 4-3... give Bosa a home. But he is miscast as a 3-4 OLB... At least now you got something right. What dumbass would ever think of putting Bosa as an OLB? He is a DE....3-4, 4-3, it don't matter. But I still go Goff at #2... Gip, if you don't think 3-4, 4-3 DE it don't matter- TC is right, you don't know what you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I keep seeing BPA being tossed out there. To me, that's impossible to determine when dealing with such vastly different roles. I prefer BPI: Biggest Positive Impact Maybe an offensive lineman is the top player in the draft. But would an O-Line guy have a bigger positive impact on the Browns than a good QB or a star edge rusher? That's a fantastic way to put it. I've been going with just your basic ROI terminology, but this makes much more sense. To me, Goff/Wentz + BPA 3-4 OLB would have a much higher BPI than, say, Bosa + Cook. In a year so deep at DE/OLB, why blow it all early on a guy who, in my opinion, is maybe half-a-Watt at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I keep seeing BPA being tossed out there. To me, that's impossible to determine when dealing with such vastly different roles. I prefer BPI: Biggest Positive Impact Maybe an offensive lineman is the top player in the draft. But would an O-Line guy have a bigger positive impact on the Browns than a good QB or a star edge rusher? Bravo, great post. DLs who can win and disrupt and edge rushers who can collapse the pocket are what are needed most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 That's a fantastic way to put it. I've been going with just your basic ROI terminology, but this makes much more sense. To me, Goff/Wentz + BPA 3-4 OLB would have a much higher BPI than, say, Bosa + Cook. In a year so deep at DE/OLB, why blow it all early on a guy who, in my opinion, is maybe half-a-Watt at best. You could be right. Which Day 2 EDGE guys are you liking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillmotion Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 All signs pointing towards Cook being a less talented Jay Cutler.... Or that being like Jay Cutler would be his peak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 The thought of getting Jaylon Smith is intriguing to me if the price is right. Same here, but I think that ship is about to sale. Word is his rehab is going amazingly well and he will walk onto the field at the Combine sans crutches. He may even lift. And I think Sheldon Rankings is a better 3-4 DE prospect than Bosa... I'm not a Nassib guy at all. Yea, sure....and the Dave Clark 5 was a better band than the Beatles. Point is, as you know, schemes matter. Bosa would be an upgrade over Kruger in Krug's historic role, but as we talked last season, with Krugs in the line-up we were a 3-4 in name only. Make it official... swap to a 4-3... give Bosa a home. But he is miscast as a 3-4 OLB... At least now you got something right. What dumbass would ever think of putting Bosa as an OLB? He is a DE....3-4, 4-3, it don't matter. But I still go Goff at #2... At least now you got something right. I'm Glad All Over to have fixed your reply... well, at least the fixable part of it. The 3-4/4-3 being the same part is beyond help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 So will we call his fans "Cooksuckers?" WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 So will we call his fans "Cooksuckers?" WSS HA!.... But...the real question is....does he have any fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 You could be right. Which Day 2 EDGE guys are you liking? I don't know where guys are being mocked as of late, I haven't had the time to really pay attention to the draft as a whole. Guys that I've been intrigued by, that aren't necessarily the top at their positions, however: Obviously Jaylon Smith (because of his injury, I mean) Obviously Leonard Floyd Emmanuel Ogbah Noah Spence Shilique Calhoun Carl Nassib Kevin Dodd (kind of) I'm intrigued by Calhoun's talent, but worried about his size and technique. The guy I'm the most excited about is Nassib, I think he will really come on strong in about two years. Spence is another that needs a couple years and is a decent sized risk. We could go the work ethic route and go Ogbah/Nassib. We could go the go the talent upside route and go Spence or Calhoun. We could go the trade up route and try and get Jaylon or Leonard in the mid-late first. I have a bunch of garbage floating around in my brain that I need to iron out, there's just so many different edge guys this year that I haven't figured out a best case scenario yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Whats intriguing is how loaded this draft is with DE's and DT's.....absofuckinlutely loaded.....what 10-12 are projected as round 1 talents?....and you know they arent all going in the first.....which ones drop is the real question....but you'd think there will still be some good talent in rnds 2 and 3... And compounding the dilemma is that DE is one of the strongest areas in FA too....so, it will be interesting to see if the Browns go after a top FA, instead of drafting DE early... How about a Mario Williams(soon to be cut)...Olivier Vernon....Robert Ayers....J. Pierre-Paul.....Mohammed Wilkerson....?? All double digit sack guys about to hit the market.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 HA!.... But...the real question is....does he have any fans? From fanboy to cooksucker is one hellofa transition to ask for. For my sake please take Hackenberg. Ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Whats intriguing is how loaded this draft is with DE's and DT's.....absofuckinlutely loaded.....what 10-12 are projected as round 1 talents?....and you know they arent all going in the first.....which ones drop is the real question....but you'd think there will still be some good talent in rnds 2 and 3... And compounding the dilemma is that DE is one of the strongest areas in FA too....so, it will be interesting to see if the Browns go after a top FA, instead of drafting DE early... How about a Mario Williams(soon to be cut)...Olivier Vernon....Robert Ayers....J. Pierre-Paul.....Mohammed Wilkerson....?? All double digit sack guys about to hit the market.... Have not heard many people say "absofuckinlutely loaded" about the depth of the EDGE draft class. Which is what we need to be focusing on, not DTs. The Browns just used a high pick on Shelton, just drafted X Cooper, Meder has been a good surprise, they have Des Bryant under contract and extended Hughes last year. Starks might also have another year left in him. They need a 5-tech who can hold the edge and collapse the pocket, and a OLB who can hold up against the run. I don't see many dynamic OLB rushers in the class, at all. Might need to pay, or hope Kruger will be utilized better under Horton. Getting Bosa at 2 and then Shaq Lawson/Noah Spence at 32 would be a dream scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 I don't know where guys are being mocked as of late, I haven't had the time to really pay attention to the draft as a whole. Guys that I've been intrigued by, that aren't necessarily the top at their positions, however: Obviously Jaylon Smith (because of his injury, I mean) Obviously Leonard Floyd Emmanuel Ogbah Noah Spence Shilique Calhoun Carl Nassib Kevin Dodd (kind of) I'm intrigued by Calhoun's talent, but worried about his size and technique. The guy I'm the most excited about is Nassib, I think he will really come on strong in about two years. Spence is another that needs a couple years and is a decent sized risk. We could go the work ethic route and go Ogbah/Nassib. We could go the go the talent upside route and go Spence or Calhoun. We could go the trade up route and try and get Jaylon or Leonard in the mid-late first. I have a bunch of garbage floating around in my brain that I need to iron out, there's just so many different edge guys this year that I haven't figured out a best case scenario yet. I'll look into Calhoun more. I like Noah Spence, Floyd and Shaq Lawson the most right now. Not sure any fall to 32. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Have not heard many people say "absofuckinlutely loaded" about the depth of the EDGE draft class. Including me..... Not seeing too many sure shot dominant pass rushers, hence the suggestion we look at FA's that are proven,many of whom are young and have lots of miles left........and then tap one a little later in the draft........ And if they draft Bosa, Ill be perfectly fine with that....guaranteed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 I'll look into Calhoun more. I like Noah Spence, Floyd and Shaq Lawson the most right now. Not sure any fall to 32. He's thin. Not Mingo thin, but still thin regardless. Does a better job of converting his speed to power than Mingo does, but he won't win any battles with straight power. Shaq would be intriguing but I have a feeling he'll be gone by 15. Something about Clemson defensive ends and people just go bananas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Getting Bosa at 2 and then Shaq Lawson/Noah Spence at 32 would be a dream scenario. Agreed. And add Calhoun to that list @ #32. It would not bother me to trade up into the first some to get one if it appears all will be gone by 32. Denver just proved once again what all of us oldtimers forget from time to time. Defense wins championships. Ours can be fixed quite well and very quickly with those we have and those we add in FA and this draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 I love Spence as a Kruger replacement, but I do not see Spence or Lawson being around at 32. They are very good Edge Rushers in a thin crop. Was just scouting ND's Stanley (OT) and watched his Clemson game. Lawson ate him up with a gorgeous spin move. Day 2 Calhoun will be there, but does not excite me. Speed is OK; Power is OK. Nassib strikes me as a one-trick pony. Can he develop? Sure... Georgia's Jenkins intrigues me... need to spend more time on him. Day 3 Nicholas (VaTech) and Ngakoue (Maryland) have also caught my eye. Kinda like Mud, what excites me are the number of DTs in the draft that look like they have the potential to be great 3-4 DEs. Nkemdiche (Ole Miss), Rankings (Louisville) and Washington (OSU). Even Day (NDU) fits this mold. And unlike the Edge guys, a couple of these will be there on Day 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Love Shaq Lawson and Spence. Agree it's not realistic they'll be available at 32... but Spence could fall because of his missteps. And I honestly think guys like Matt Miller are overvaluing him in the Top 10 after a good Senior Bowl. Guy I'm watching tonight is Aaron Wallace, rSr OLB from UCLA. Have heard good things. Hope to not be disappointed. Edit: Added Ron Thompson, DE, Syracuse and James Cowser, DE, South Utah to my Thursday night list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Gip, if you don't think 3-4, 4-3 DE it don't matter- TC is right, you don't know what you're talking about. Minimally......you really think that a player that good can only operate in one system or the other and that he would suck in the wrong one. I don't buy it....not at all. I mean, its not like are asking him to play Quarterback. You are asking a defensive end to play defensive end. If you have marginal talent....maybe it makes some difference. I mean....WTF is with Chicken Little Shit. "Oh My God...play that guy in the 4-3 where he will play like Superman.....but God....if he is put in the 3-4 he will play like Granny Clampett! " Jesus to fuck....what namby pamby ass shit is this? Maybe it is not what he is used to....but at 6'6" and full of muscles like the man from Brussels...I think he can adapt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Single "handedly" keeping the lotion business afloat. Congrats, Gip. Yes, my lotion lands in your esophagus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Bravo, great post. DLs who can win and disrupt and edge rushers who can collapse the pocket are what are needed most. Gee, lets see....Didn't the Denver Broncos just win a Super Bowl doing that? (Oh...but that is no plan for the Browns to follow) Doh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Whats intriguing is how loaded this draft is with DE's and DT's.....absofuckinlutely loaded.....what 10-12 are projected as round 1 talents?....and you know they arent all going in the first.....which ones drop is the real question....but you'd think there will still be some good talent in rnds 2 and 3... And compounding the dilemma is that DE is one of the strongest areas in FA too....so, it will be interesting to see if the Browns go after a top FA, instead of drafting DE early... How about a Mario Williams(soon to be cut)...Olivier Vernon....Robert Ayers....J. Pierre-Paul.....Mohammed Wilkerson....?? All double digit sack guys about to hit the market.... This is an important aspect of this discussion.....because Bosa will be gone by the time we pick #2....so yes, we have to look at alternates for what I want: a defensive killer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Minimally......you really think that a player that good can only operate in one system or the other and that he would suck in the wrong one. I don't buy it....not at all. Maybe it is not what he is used to....but at 6'6" and full of muscles like the man from Brussels...I think he can adapt. I do have to agree with this, as it applies to Bosa....while there are a lot of guys better suited for one system or another....for a 3-4 it's mostly tweeners who are too small for DE and make good OLB's and leaner tweener DT's who make good DE's.... But there are plenty of talents who transcend systems and would be great anywhere.....and Bosa is likely one of them( Myles Jack too, btw).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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