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Pryor to Redskins

The Gipper

By The Gipper
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Unsympathetic Rising Star

Unsympathetic

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a real football man

 

Red Sox and Cubs said the same thing until Theo Epstein came to town. He wasn't anything resembling a "baseball guy."

 

We've hired plenty of "real football men" such as Holmgren who have ... completely failed. News flash: Just because someone ACTS powerful/strong.. doesn't mean they're competent at all.

 

What's your plan, dude... Keep hiring failed retreads and we're guaranteed a championship in 2020?

 

 

The notion that a "real football man" will magically right everything immediately is a pure strawman argument. It doesn't and won't exist - because it has never existed. One man does not make an organization - never has, never will.

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Tour2ma Contributor

Tour2ma

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Dim bulbs reach Free Agency and opt for a 1 year deal. The 1 year deal is basically the Franchise Tag which NFL players despise because it prevents them from reaching Free Agency so they can maximize their value. This guy tagged himself.

 

This death sentence can go 3 ways but really only 2 in this case.

 

1. Pryor can light the NFL up and cash in next season with a contract larger than Britts. He cannot get hurt and miss any games. He cannot get hurt where it would effect his play either.

 

2. Pryor gets injured and his numbers plummet. Hopefully not, but the NFL is a dangerous business. 220 lb NFL Safeties are as fast as you are and hit like Line Backers.

 

3. Pryor coasts through the 2017 season looking out for # 1. No big contract at the end for obvious reasons even though Pryor is healthy as a horse.

 

Now we're talking...

"I swear on the souls of my Grandchildren, that I will not be the one to break the peace we have made here today."

I think I got that pretty close... anyway...

 

 

Absolutely correct about there being two ways to lose, but I disagree in part on what they are.

 

A career-threatening injury (your scenario #2) is the obvious risk and a knee is the most obvious injury. Obvious both because of it's unknown impact on his innate speed and, since I don't think he's ever suffered a significant injury, questions about his rehab ethic would be there.

 

I disagree that he "cannot miss any games." If he sprains an ankle and has to sit one out, I don't think that impacts his future. However, I'll grant you that if he misses time due to multiple muscle pulls that raise conditioning questions, then that's a different story. Ditto if he visits "protocol" more than once for the balance of a game. Signs of any chronic issues would hurt his value.

 

I suspect your 3rd scenario, "coasting", is likely the one you set aside. I don't see it as a possibility. His fitness motivation seems naturally high. May even see him doing some sit-ups in his driveway for the cameras. So as a probability rating I'd give this a 0% chance.

 

The other two scenarios' probabilities? A total of 45 WRs ended 2016 on IR. Of these 45, 18 occurred before or during preseason. Almost none of the 18 were "starters". An additional 14 were placed on IR in the last month of the season and so conceivably could have returned had the same injury occurred earlier in the season. Of the remaining 13, all but three were joint-related knee, ankle or shoulder injuries.

 

So basically there were ten, season-ending, IR injuries to WRs. Teams carry 5+ WRs, say 5.5, most of whom, if active, will play in some capacity each game. So that's 176 WRs in the league, of which ten suffered season-ending, joint injuries in season. Not bad odds even if raised to 1 in 10 to be "safe".

http://www.footballdb.com/transactions/injured-reserve.html?sortfld=pos&sortdir=desc

 

On the positive side... while obviously the better he does in 2017, then the more he will be rewarded in his next deal... at least up to a point (more on this below). However, I don't think he has to "light it up". Essentially confirming his 2016 showing should suffice, i.e., post a second, 1000-yd season. Top 20 in yards should do it, but more TDs would certainly help his cause. A mere, Top 50 repeat in TDs ain't going to cut it. Unfortunately for TP he's gone to a bad red-zone team... at least that was the knock on Cousins in 2016.

 

 

Here's the promised "up to a point" point... I'm not sure where the performance range lies, but there has to be a Goldilocks zone somewhere that could set TP up for a franchise tag in WSH since using it again on Cousins makes no sense at all. I actually think it could be at a higher level than his 2016 showing. If he were to post 1000 yards and say 7 TDs, he's still statistically borderline for being seen as a lock for #1 WR status and money.

 

Plus it's... you know... WSH...

 

Wouldn't that be ironic?

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Tour2ma Contributor

Tour2ma

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No, real disagreement there. However, TP's a biggun... not exactly fragile.

 

Are his incentive benchmarks out?

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Tour2ma Contributor

Tour2ma

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So details yet to come on the incentive. I did read one account that they were "unattainable".

 

Also wonder if he has "no tag" language in his contract... if that kind of language is even legal.

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Suomi Newbie

Suomi

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According to this article Pryor came back after the Redskins offer and we declined and / or reduced the offer. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/03/terrelle_pryor_came_back_to_th.html

 

If Pryor wanted to stay in Cleveland he has only to look toward his agents to cast blame. Apparently Pryor's agents were given ample time to work out a deal - beginning back in training camp - but toyed with his future by trying to play "chicken" with the Browns as free agency approached. The Browns, to their credit, didn't flinch and Pryor was the last one standing when the music stopped.

 

If Pryor came back to the Browns with the Redskins' offer in-hand and hoped to get his original contract offer from Sashi, that ship rightfully sailed. This front office is setting the tone that they play business hard. They have a good handle on what players are worth and provide fair contract offers. If a Cleveland Browns player chooses to test free agency, they can't use the Browns as a fall-back because the Browns WILL move on without them.

 

I like the way that this front office is handling the off-season. They're no-nonsense. Quite a refreshing change from the previous regimes.

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Tour2ma Contributor

Tour2ma

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Lol...MKC is so gullible. That "source" is using this leak as a rag to wipe the egg off his face.

 

What? I'll have you know that she got that straight from the horse's Rosenmouth...

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Osiris Newbie

Osiris

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Rosenhaus was probably still heady from the deal he struck for Antonio Brown and miscalculated on the market. That's the problem with trying to draw trends out of a single data point. You are forced to correct your assumptions, and your client and the team pay the price.

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Tour2ma Contributor

Tour2ma

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TP sending his love...

Terrelle Pryor Says Redskins QB Situation Can’t Get Worse Than Browns Was

March 13, 2017 3:09 PM By Daryl Ruiter | 92.3 The Fan

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2017/03/13/terrelle-pryor-says-redskins-qb-situation-cant-get-worse-than-browns-was/#.WMbugO5Hzjk.twitter

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jrb12711 Community Regular

jrb12711

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Man, you guys are ridiculous sometimes. The Browns offered TP $8 million a year with a lot of money guaranteed and he basically flipped the Browns off to go get a "better" deal. When he objectively couldn't, he might have limped back to the organization but good for them for flipping him back off in the process.

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The Gipper Newbie

The Gipper

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TP sending his love...

 

 

Terrelle Pryor Says Redskins QB Situation Can’t Get Worse Than Browns Was

March 13, 2017 3:09 PM By Daryl Ruiter | 92.3 The Fan

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2017/03/13/terrelle-pryor-says-redskins-qb-situation-cant-get-worse-than-browns-was/#.WMbugO5Hzjk.twitter

It could if Kirk Cousins were traded. Or, Does he think Colt McCoy is better than anyone we have now? (and if he does...would he be right? He could be)

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The Gipper Newbie

The Gipper

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Man, you guys are ridiculous sometimes. The Browns offered TP $8 million a year with a lot of money guaranteed and he basically flipped the Browns off to go get a "better" deal. When he objectively couldn't, he might have limped back to the organization but good for them for flipping him back off in the process.

I don't mind the Browns doing this in this case...because they picked up a guy that could be just as good or better.

Now last year, when essentially the same thing happened with The Schwartz, it was not so good, because they had no replacement anywhere as good as Schwartz.

 

And hey....in my opinion...this STILL leads to the possibility that Josh Gordon could make it back into the good graces of the Browns. Talent wise there is no one out there better. Chemistry/character wise? Who knows. But I say there if no real risk in it for the Browns. If he comes back, keeps his nose clean...literally and figuratively, and balls out, all good for the Browns. If not...if he has lost his talent...or fucks up again, they are no worse off than the are now.

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Osiris Newbie

Osiris

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I don't mind the Browns doing this in this case...because they picked up a guy that could be just as good or better.

Now last year, when essentially the same thing happened with The Schwartz, it was not so good, because they had no replacement anywhere as good as Schwartz.

 

And hey....in my opinion...this STILL leads to the possibility that Josh Gordon could make it back into the good graces of the Browns. Talent wise there is no one out there better. Chemistry/character wise? Who knows. But I say there if no real risk in it for the Browns. If he comes back, keeps his nose clean...literally and figuratively, and balls out, all good for the Browns. If not...if he has lost his talent...or fucks up again, they are no worse off than the are now.

 

If Gordon has really cleaned up his act this time, it is definitely worth it to let him try and make something of himself. They have little to lose, and if he balls out but they still don't trust him, they at least improved his trade value.

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Tour2ma Contributor

Tour2ma

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I don't mind the Browns doing this in this case...because they picked up a guy that could be just as good or better. Now last year, when essentially the same thing happened with The Schwartz, it was not so good, because they had no replacement anywhere as good as Schwartz.

 

You sure about that?

 

From PFF:

The Chiefs’ line is a unit that was good, but not great, across the board this season. There was no real weak link, but neither did anybody really dominate consistently over the entire year. C Mitch Morse was the team’s best player; he went through the season without allowing a sack, giving up just 13 total QB pressures over 628 pass-blocking snaps. Mitchell Schwartz didn’t quite live up to his last season in Cleveland, while Eric Fisher on the other side continues his marginal improvement, still exhibiting more issues than you would like as a pass blocker.

 

Then there's Pro Football Outsiders' ALY (Adjusted Line Yards) directional rushing results over Right Tackle... http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

  • KC - Schwartz: 2.93 yds - 28th
  • CLE - Pasztor: 3.64 yds - 16th

I know I've seen individual OL PassPro stats before... hurries, knockdowns, etc. ... but they are eluding google at present.

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Unsympathetic Rising Star

Unsympathetic

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Tour, how do you see next season's OL competition shaping up? It's good to be blessed.. but it's prognosticatin' time.

 

JT/Bitonio/Tretter/Zeitler/ ?

 

Pasztor vs Shon Coleman for the starting RT?

 

Drango / Greco for the one swing C/G roster spot?

 

Who gets cut or traded? Or do we keep 8 OL and call Drango a blocking TE?

 

Fabiano and Reiter.. are camp fodder?

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The Gipper Newbie

The Gipper

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You sure about that?

 

From PFF:

The Chiefs’ line is a unit that was good, but not great, across the board this season. There was no real weak link, but neither did anybody really dominate consistently over the entire year. C Mitch Morse was the team’s best player; he went through the season without allowing a sack, giving up just 13 total QB pressures over 628 pass-blocking snaps. Mitchell Schwartz didn’t quite live up to his last season in Cleveland, while Eric Fisher on the other side continues his marginal improvement, still exhibiting more issues than you would like as a pass blocker.

 

Then there's Pro Football Outsiders' ALY (Adjusted Line Yards) directional rushing results over Right Tackle... http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

  • KC - Schwartz: 2.93 yds - 28th
  • CLE - Pasztor: 3.64 yds - 16th

I know I've seen individual OL PassPro stats before... hurries, knockdowns, etc. ... but they are eluding google at present.

Well....perception was that the Browns OL was weakened badly by letting The Schwartz leave. I mean....the one stat that you didn't quote was: Browns 66 sacks, 17 more than any other team in the league. Now....sure,you can't say that that was simply a factor of not having Schwartz here....but it could be a small factor.

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The Gipper Newbie

The Gipper

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Tour, how do you see next season's OL competition shaping up? It's good to be blessed.. but it's prognosticatin' time.

 

JT/Bitonio/Tretter/Zeitler/ ?

 

Pasztor vs Shon Coleman for the starting RT?

 

Drango / Greco for the one swing C/G roster spot?

 

Who gets cut or traded? Or do we keep 8 OL and call Drango a blocking TE?

 

Fabiano and Reiter.. are camp fodder?

Pasztor is, I believe a FA...and not signed with Browns. And it seems that perhaps they do not want him back. So don't count on him. Coleman/Drango maybe.

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Tour2ma Contributor

Tour2ma

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Tour, how do you see next season's OL competition shaping up? It's good to be blessed.. but it's prognosticatin' time.

 

JT/Bitonio/Tretter/Zeitler/ ?

 

Pasztor vs Shon Coleman for the starting RT?

 

Drango / Greco for the one swing C/G roster spot?

 

Who gets cut or traded? Or do we keep 8 OL and call Drango a blocking TE?

 

Fabiano and Reiter.. are camp fodder?

 

First... Paz is gone as of now... floating in UFA-land. Last I heard the Texans were talking to him.

 

Second, Cam is the wild card. I think he'll get his RT shot thru Camp/preseason, fail at it and be cut... but he's led a charmed life so far, so I could well be wrong here.

 

Third, Greco... I wish I were more confident in his full recovery. I suspect he sees the PUP list early, but hope I am wrong.

 

I think the starting five look to be: Thomas - Bito - Tretter - Zeitler - Coleman. But I will say again, look for the starting Center competition to be the closest of the five.

 

Drango seems safe as our OG/OT swingman. I wish Paz was joining him, but he's not. Anyway Drango makes six.

 

With Cam gone and Greco on PUP, the last two slots can go to Reiter and Fabiano as OC/OG swingmen, but I doubt they do due to being thin at OT. One will have emerged from the Center competition as a contender, I suspect it will be Reiter, but that's only based upon the fact that he was the first to replace Cam in 2016. Fabs was good in his one appearance.

 

Right now the other OL on the roster include: Bailey, Ikard, Martin and Sterup. At 6'9 only Zack Sterup is a pure OT so give him the edge at sticking. However, we are still #1 in line on the waiver wire not to mention the draft and UDFA. One or both routes will add a PS candidate or two.

 

I don't see us adding an OL early in the draft, but then I'm the guy that did not think we'd aggressively add OL via FA...

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Bigalow80 Newbie

Bigalow80

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the nice thing is they have depth now. Fabiano, drango, greco and Reiter add both OC/OG depth. I think Coleman has a bright future and at some point he will need to be moved to the Left side. Erving wasn't terrible at tackle but he is never healthy either. I think erving gets traded for a very late round pick and the browns move forward with the line as is.

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Tour2ma Contributor

Tour2ma

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Terry Pluto comes thru again...

Cleveland Browns Scribbles: Terrelle Pryor dropped ball on contract talks

By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer

on March 15, 2017 at 6:30 AM, updated March 15, 2017 at 6:31 AM

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2017/03/cleveland_browns_scribbles_ter.html

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The Gipper Newbie

The Gipper

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Well....there it is. A decent long term deal offered by the Browns. He...or his agent, snubs their nose at it. They test FA and find that ALL other teams do not think highly of him. And he comes back to the Browns, not even suggesting that he accept their original deal...but wants only a 1 year deal? The Browns would be absurd to take that. Long term deal or nothing they said. "We are not going to go through with you again next year".

Rightfully so.

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hoorta Veteran

hoorta

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the nice thing is they have depth now. Fabiano, drango, greco and Reiter add both OC/OG depth. I think Coleman has a bright future and at some point he will need to be moved to the Left side. Erving wasn't terrible at tackle but he is never healthy either. I think erving gets traded for a very late round pick and the browns move forward with the line as is.

Erving's trade value is about zero. Assuming he flops @ RT, he'll probably get cut. Another team might pick him up to kick the tires.

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gftChris Newbie

gftChris

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Erving's trade value is about zero. Assuming he flops @ RT, he'll probably get cut. Another team might pick him up to kick the tires.

We thought that about Gilbert (sixth from steelers) and Mingo (fifth from Pats) as well...

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