Westside Steve Posted May 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2021 https://www.cleveland.com/sports-4-cle/2021/05/terry-pluto-on-otas-baker-mayfield-and-jadeveon-clowney-matt-dery-on-current-state-of-indians-on-wednesdays-sports-4-cle.html?outputType=amp Fair amount of bs before the video starts. WSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/05/are-they-legit-super-bowl-contenders-or-will-fans-be-burned-again-terrys-talkin-browns.html Not one of Terry's best... Getting burned is always possible, but there are degrees. It's not as if we are prohibitive favorites to "win it all". And nothing burns like 0-16... except maybe 1-31... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 20 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: Getting burned is always possible, but there are degrees. It's not as if we are prohibitive favorites to "win it all". And nothing burns like 0-16... except maybe 1-31... Exactly. I'm not buying into all of the hype about our defense, or any other hype by the media - and some fans, regarding anything. I'm expecting a winning season and will be disappointed with anything south of 9-7, but it would have to be a total shit show for me to be 'burned', and I believe in Kevin too much for that to be a fear of mine. The Browns have lots of new faces and they'll have to dodge the injury and COVID opponents, get some lucky bounces and calls, and beat some really good teams just to live up to the lofty hype that has been bestowed to them... none of those are gimmies. ^ So that was a long winded way of saying I'm hoping for the best, but expecting the realistic and will be wearing 100SPF all year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 31 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/05/are-they-legit-super-bowl-contenders-or-will-fans-be-burned-again-terrys-talkin-browns.html Not one of Terry's best... Getting burned is always possible, but there are degrees. It's not as if we are prohibitive favorites to "win it all". And nothing burns like 0-16... except maybe 1-31... One could argue that THIS upcoming season might be the best opportunity for the Browns, though... Tough decisions and salary cap cuts will be in the future, with Baker, Chubbs, Teller, Ward, et al all coming up on free agency. This upcoming season might be the highwater mark for talent surrounding Baker in his Browns starting QB career. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, D Bone said: Exactly. I'm not buying into all of the hype about our defense, or any other hype by the media - and some fans, regarding anything. I'm expecting a winning season and will be disappointed with anything south of 9-7 We all would be because that means the Browns forfeited the 17th game. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, D Bone said: Exactly. I'm not buying into all of the hype about our defense, or any other hype by the media - and some fans, regarding anything. The Browns defense should be way more athletic than it was a year ago. The secondary should be light years ahead of the injury-riddled unit for 2020. But, as I've mentioned numerous times, I'm baffled by all the talk of a very good to great defense, considering IMO the most important thing a defense needs to do in football today is consistently rush the QB, and I just do not see what moves have helped them do this. Clowney is not a pass rusher. Ask Falcons fans if McKinley is, and after their laughter dies down, apologize for asking. The new DTs aren't a force in rushing the passer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 11 minutes ago, tiamat63 said: We all would be because that means the Browns forfeited the 17th game. Technically, 9-8 would mean a forfeit. 9-7 suggests that either I was talking about being happy with the Browns 9-7 record before the last game was played, or the 17th game was removed by the NFL if I was actually talking about 9-7 being the Browns' ending record..... and like any good author, I will leave it up to my readers to decide on their own of my true intention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 36 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said: considering IMO the most important thing a defense needs to do in football today is consistently rush the QB, and I just do not see what moves have helped them do this. That would be the improvement made in the secondary. Again the separation perceived between pass rush and coverage isn't really a separation at all - it's an ecosystem. Either of them being out of balance will be exploited to great effect by the right offense. As for Clowney, I suspect his more lean look in that pic posted would clue us to what the coaching staff wants to see from him - a little more speed and bend to the corner. I won't comment much re: Takk but the possibility of seeing a true 4 edge look isn't out of the question IMHO. And in that case, you need at least an ok body tying up the interior being able to reliably slant and stunt on your more creative looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 1 hour ago, tiamat63 said: That would be the improvement made in the secondary. Again the separation perceived between pass rush and coverage isn't really a separation at all - it's an ecosystem. Either of them being out of balance will be exploited to great effect by the right offense. That's where we disagree, at least somewhat. I don't think a good secondary can help prop up a poor to mediocre pass rush into a good one. I do think a good pass rush can help prop up a mediocre secondary far more often. Sure, there are coverage sacks, but I wouldn't want to count on that, especially in today's pass-happy environment where the rules favor WRs over CBs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said: That's where we disagree, at least somewhat. I don't think a good secondary can help prop up a poor to mediocre pass rush into a good one. I do think a good pass rush can help prop up a mediocre secondary far more often. Sure, there are coverage sacks, but I wouldn't want to count on that, especially in today's pass-happy environment where the rules favor WRs over CBs. Look no further than Revis and Crow or even the Patriots the last few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 Chicken and egg... Ability to pressure QB and cover go hand-in-hand... sacks are nice, but unless one involves a strip then any one of them is really not a game changer. It's all about turnovers. Pressures that create errors? Sprinkle a couple of these into a game and now there's something to talk about... but you still DBs in position to capitalize. At least on paper we've improved both areas... immensely... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SdBacker80 Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 Clowney and McKinely are playing for big contracts in 2022...where teams will have more cap room. I think we have enough quality depth to rotate guys which should improve overall production. Maybe Ward plays more than 12 games in his 4th season? Our secondary depth is light years ahead of where it was last year and Mack Wilson will probably not play a significant role in in the LB unit. Sheldon Rich was solid Ogunjobi was very inconsistent - perhaps we get marginal improvement in this unit? And year 2 in the same system for some of the holdovers. Lots of reasons to be hopeful...but IMO the season still rests on the Oline being dominant again and Baker being a little better and improving on a very good season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 23 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: Chicken and egg... Ability to pressure QB and cover go hand-in-hand... sacks are nice, but unless one involves a strip then any one of them is really not a game changer. It's all about turnovers. Pressures that create errors? Sprinkle a couple of these into a game and now there's something to talk about... but you still DBs in position to capitalize. At least on paper we've improved both areas... immensely... This team is improved on paper immensely in the pass rush department? Uh, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 Also, Myles is an unknown at this point in time. The player that came back after his illness was a shell of his former self, and only time will tell which Myles takes the field this year. We are all obviously hoping that he returns to his prior form, but I don't think anyone should just assume he will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted May 31, 2021 Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 3 hours ago, Dutch Oven said: I don't think a good secondary can help prop up a poor to mediocre pass rush Since Pluto is quoting Joe Banner......"Today's game is Pass and Rush The Passer". Obviously, he didn't say Pass and Cover The Receivers. Because ya can't let the QB stand back there and survey the field like Tom Brady used to be able to do in New England. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted May 31, 2021 Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 3 hours ago, D Bone said: Also, Myles is an unknown at this point in time. The player that came back after his illness was a shell of his former self, and only time will tell which Myles takes the field this year. We are all obviously hoping that he returns to his prior form, but I don't think anyone should just assume he will. Normally, I wouldn't be concerned about the long-term effects of Covid on such a young, physically-fit athlete, but Myles has asthma. Good point, you dirty vegan. 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted May 31, 2021 Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 see ya all there ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 On 5/30/2021 at 7:22 PM, Orion said: Because ya can't let the QB stand back there and survey the field like Tom Brady used to be able to do in New England. It does help when your QB can "survey the field" in under 2 seconds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 On 5/30/2021 at 4:54 PM, Dutch Oven said: This team is improved on paper immensely in the pass rush department? Uh, no. So... Clowney plus Takk not > Vernon? GTFOH... Quote 11. CLEVELAND BROWNS If he doesn’t top the list, Myles Garrett is a guy who would sit very high on a list of pass rushers you would want to start a team with. Garrett finished the 2020 regular season with a 90.0 pass-rushing grade, and his 59 quarterback pressures undersell his ability to beat the man in front of him. Thirty-seven of his pass-rushing snaps ended in plays where Garrett beat his blocker but didn’t pick up a pressure — the fourth-highest mark in the NFL. The reason Cleveland doesn’t finish higher than 11th here is that no other player on the defense came close to Garrett’s output. Olivier Vernon’s 71.6 pass-rushing grade was the next-highest mark on the defensive line, and Cleveland didn’t have a top-40 pass-rushing grade from any of their interior defenders. 31. TENNESSEE TITANS Beyond Clowney, there just weren’t many players who could reliably win their pass-rushing snaps consistently. Harold Landry led the team with 51 pressures, but that was mostly volume-driven – he recorded pressure on just 9.7% of his pass-rushing snaps. No player on the team besides Clowney produced a pressure rate above 10.0% for the season. https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-pass-rush-rankings 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 6 hours ago, Tour2ma said: It does help when your QB can "survey the field" in under 2 seconds. Well, of course, but Brady used to be able to stand back there and look....and look....and look. I don't care HOW good your DB's are, if you can't rush the passer your pass D is gonna get burned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted June 4, 2021 Report Share Posted June 4, 2021 A Terry gem.... https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/06/a-strange-scouting-trip-and-draft-deals-bring-ozzie-newsome-to-cleveland-terry-pluto.html Almost made me forgive the Warfield trade... Quote If you connect all the trade dots, the Browns trading Hall of Famer Paul Warfield led to Hall of Famer Ozzie Newsome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted June 4, 2021 Report Share Posted June 4, 2021 As bad as Mike Phipps was, and for as long as he was bad for the Browns, how the hell did they fleece a first rounder from the Bears for him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted June 4, 2021 Report Share Posted June 4, 2021 .... because "Bears"??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted June 6, 2021 Report Share Posted June 6, 2021 Talkin' Linebacker's... https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/06/you-want-linebackers-ok-lets-look-at-the-linebackers-terrys-talkin-browns.html Berry really likes his addition of Walker.. My concern, is his Mike depth.. SAM 44 Takitaki, Sione 19/3 56 SMITH, MALCOLM SF20 59 Weaver, Curtis W/Mia MLB 54 Walker, Anthony U/IND 51 Wilson, Mack 19/5 42 Fields II, Tony 21/5 WLB 50 Phillips, Jacob 20/3 28 Owusu-Koramoah, Jeremiah 21/2 52 Lee, Elijah W/Det Returning Goodson on a fair deal? or Malcolm Smith fills Mike back-up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted June 6, 2021 Report Share Posted June 6, 2021 Just finished the same article... it's a good one. 3 hours ago, gumby73 said: Returning Goodson on a fair deal? or Malcolm Smith fills Mike back-up? Smith seems the obvious choice ATM, but I would bet the staff is looking for Phillips to step up and into that role in his 2nd year. Slide Phillips into the middle + bring in JOK at Will = QED... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted June 6, 2021 Report Share Posted June 6, 2021 3 hours ago, gumby73 said: Talkin' Linebacker's... https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/06/you-want-linebackers-ok-lets-look-at-the-linebackers-terrys-talkin-browns.html Berry really likes his addition of Walker.. My concern, is his Mike depth.. SAM 44 Takitaki, Sione 19/3 56 SMITH, MALCOLM SF20 59 Weaver, Curtis W/Mia MLB 54 Walker, Anthony U/IND 51 Wilson, Mack 19/5 42 Fields II, Tony 21/5 WLB 50 Phillips, Jacob 20/3 28 Owusu-Koramoah, Jeremiah 21/2 52 Lee, Elijah W/Det Returning Goodson on a fair deal? or Malcolm Smith fills Mike back-up? Why is Weaver listed as an off-ball LB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SdBacker80 Posted June 6, 2021 Report Share Posted June 6, 2021 Vernon gets a lot of credit for essentially dominating a few weak tackles last season I think he had half his sacks against turnstile tackles and a few others getting major pressure pushing the pocket his way. He was dinged up or largely ineffective in his time here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted June 6, 2021 Report Share Posted June 6, 2021 10 hours ago, tiamat63 said: Why is Weaver listed as an off-ball LB? Yeah, i saw that 😵..and wanted to delete it...ourlads anywho? So I'm rolling thru some of these OTA photos... https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/photos/photos-phase-3-day-6 (the browns website, has photo's from each practice) Does the boyz, that sat out last season? Look it! Weaver may look tree leg fat for now? (or just a bad photo look? running the loop, looks better..) Billings certainly ain't missed a meal 😋... Senat's a grown as$ man.. Marvin Wilson & Togiai, l👀k baller ready coming off a college season...Credit Marvin Wilson & Togiai working back from college injuries too.. I've seen 1 photo from day 1 of DE/DT #58 Malik McDowell... he has not practiced anywhere, since signing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted June 6, 2021 Report Share Posted June 6, 2021 On 6/4/2021 at 7:07 AM, Dutch Oven said: how the hell did they fleece a first rounder from the Bears for him? I idolized Paul Warfield. Boy, did I hate that trade. And nothing could make up for it. I was glad that he came back to the Browns organization after he retired. He's a great guy... just like Ozzie turned out to be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted June 6, 2021 Report Share Posted June 6, 2021 29 minutes ago, Orion said: I idolized Paul Warfield. Boy, did I hate that trade. And nothing could make up for it. I was glad that he came back to the Browns organization after he retired. He's a great guy... just like Ozzie turned out to be. Yeah, my dad is still salty about Warfield getting traded. 😁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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