​ "The" 🏈 Official Browns at Bengals Game 13 Thread • WEEK 14 • 🏈 ​

[DieHardBrownsFan1]

22 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

I know what you are saying - but his suspension was only about 330 days, and  the rest, he did to himself. He is responsible for his own troubles. Plenty of time to work on his mechanics on his own.

   He may start being a terrific qb next year...or not. Still a sad situation.

You have to work with your line, your backs and your receivers.  Kind of hard to do on your own.,

 

[nickers]

7 minutes ago, DieHardBrownsFan1 said:

You're comparing baseball pitchers to NFL Quarterbacks.

If your good... your good.. No excuses... I was going off of what Ghoolie originally posted

[The Cysko Kid]

On 12/11/2022 at 7:50 PM, Orion said:

...or is it reasons?   Like, this was his second football game in two years.  And he's on a new team but wasn't allowed to 'be' with the team and get in sync with his new players.   They're called 'reasons' because many of us anticipated this type of start for Watson.  Of course, those who think that someone can be plopped into this type of situation and come out of the box with 125 passer rating....well, I got nothin' for ya.

This is the 230 millipn dollar man, here. The michael jordan of football, throwing darts at the worms. 

[Neo]

On 12/11/2022 at 10:06 AM, Dutch Oven said:

Todays 49ers vs Buccaneers game is rookie Brock Purdy vs Tom Brady.

It is the largest age difference between starting QBs in the history of the NFL. 

Purdy and the 49ers took Brady behind the woodshed yesterday. Hurts me to say that because I always been a fan of Brady. But he finally looks his age on the field, underthrowing receivers like he just doesn't have the arm anymore. It's an end of an era. Like him or hate him, he's everything every fan wants in a quarterback.

[Dutch Oven]

13 hours ago, nickers said:

Go argue about it with my dead father...

Don't blame your dead father for your idiot takes on virtually every subject under the sun. 

Jesus. 

 

[Dutch Oven]

Looks like Kyler Murray's season could be over, knee injury. 

[Dutch Oven]

59 minutes ago, Neo said:

Purdy and the 49ers took Brady behind the woodshed yesterday. Hurts me to say that because I always been a fan of Brady. But he finally looks his age on the field, underthrowing receivers like he just doesn't have the arm anymore. It's an end of an era. Like him or hate him, he's everything every fan wants in a quarterback.

His retirement is going to make me feel really old.

I believe he's the last American professional athlete still playing who was born in the 1970s.

I still remember how weird it was in the 90s when there started to be players younger than me. 

[MDDawg]

1 hour ago, The Cysko Kid said:

This is the 230 millipn dollar man, here. The michael jordan of football, throwing darts at the worms. 

Last game, I saw little or none of that this game.  I hope when he starts lighting it up we'll get the same number of posts about his performance.

[nickers]

44 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Don't blame your dead father for your idiot takes on virtually every subject under the sun. 

Jesus. 

 

Fuck you ASSHOLE!... I don't know why have such a hard on for me... You must be a twink faggot!... Now go to hell!!!... And Rot!...

[Dutch Oven]

19 minutes ago, MDDawg said:

Last game, I saw little or none of that this game.  I hope when he starts lighting it up we'll get the same number of posts about his performance.

It is what it is. A lot of people on here are never going to root for Watson, mostly because of his off-field stuff (completely understandable) and in some respect because of the love Baker Mayfield gets from others (baffling). 

[Dutch Oven]

1 minute ago, nickers said:

Fuck you ASSHOLE!... I don't know why have such a hard on for me... You must be a twink faggot!... Now go to hell!!!... And Rot!...

 

[nickers]

Just now, Dutch Oven said:

 

Only a fag would call himself "Dutch Oven"... You're fag... bye!

[mjp28]

And in our little TBB MNF PICKEM tonight the picks are :

AZ (+1.5)  10    NE  9  and the usual  4 no picks.    So there you go.    Is anyone watching  ?   I just turned it on. 

[mjp28]

Oh BTW   MNF  is 13-13 in the 3rd, about 6 minutes left.

[mjp28]

4 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

Oh BTW   MNF  is 13-13 in the 3rd, about 6 minutes left.

Oh scoop, score NE 20-13 FWIW.  Hard to watch some of these late games if you don't have a  player in them.

[mjp28]

GLENDALE, Ariz. -- Arizona Cardinals quarterback Kyler Murray was carted off the field with a noncontact knee injury less than 90 seconds into Monday night's game against the New England Patriots.

He is scheduled to undergo further testing on Tuesday, including an MRI, but a source told ESPN there is "little doubt that it's torn," referring to the quarterback's ACL.

[Flugel]

12 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan1 said:

You have to work with your line, your backs and your receivers.  Kind of hard to do on your own.,

 

Voice of reason - well said!  Think back to week 1 when a lot of fans couldn't wait to assure us Brissett was unacceptable; and all we needed to do was start Dobbs.  They was wrong!

Right now, the guy in charge of our Offense (Stefanski) is doing what he did to Kirk Cousins. Minnesota fans quickly became critics of the Cousins' contract.  If memory serves me right, their best WR Stephon Diggs wanted out of that offense.  Some of that was the design of the pass routes and lack of knowledge covered up by the ole "this is a TE friendly offense."  Yeah, they really made a star out of former 1st round pick Kyle Rudolph (from ND) there. Translating that to Cleveland - Austin Hooper was a disappointment while Harrison Bryant hasn't developed into the guy we hoped he would become as a former Mackey Award winner in college.   Both Cousins and Diggs are much happier today without Stefanski's handcuffs on their talent. I'm not seeing many receivers or TEs blossom here.  

It feels like we've become that Minnesota fan base, only with a much worse track record on finding the right QB and giving them the successful environment to succeed in.  Minnesota differs because guys like Rich Gannon, Warren Moon, Brad Johnson and even Randall Cunningham (who put up the best passing numbers and QB rating of his career) played extremely well in the WCO there.  A well proven system vrs trial and error. A lot of anger, frustration and hostility with only the QB receiving it all.  At 1 point, the commentators showed a replay of Browns' Receivers downfield just standing there next to the DBs in lieu of adjusting the route to the situation.  Most of the opponents left on our schedule will be able to stop Chubb on 3rd and long.

I keep telling people we're at the mercy of a horrible owner listening to FO guys making another Poseiden Adventure on Lake Erie out of this football franchise.  The 1st thing I'd do if I was the owner (Heaven Help us!) is tell Stefanski you weren't hired or paid to just be the OC.  I would make the Head Coach of this mess micro-manage the shit out of this Special Teams nightmare (also counting currently another another Coordinator from Zimmer's chicken shit football program in Minnesota).  Our Defense just forced them to punt from their own 5 yard line and they rough the kicker without anyone even close to blocking that punt. 

Younger players are not getting developed in this football program.  Don't let the media circus about Watson blind you to all this.  If you want to see great QB development and the perfect environment to get that done look at Philly.  Look what they added on their perimeter.  Does anyone need to learn HOW TO FUCKING CATCH a football there?  Not to worry though, fans are going to think the QB (the symptom) is the only problem.  They always do like the T-Shirt full of names of QBs that failed reminds us here.  That T-shirt is just as much (or more) of a reflection on the shit at the top of this franchise. They sentence us to the Head Coaches and QBs this fan base is well trained to hate.  With every firing follows a hiring that ends up with the same exact result.  The Browns have gone nowhere since 1999 because the people at the top of this organization. Our current FO thinks IDL aren't important - do you think they even noticed DJ Reader totally dominating the Browns' Offense/front?   That guy ate this offense like Pez...

Edited December 13, 2022 by Flugel

[nickers]

36 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Voice of reason - well said!  Think back to week 1 when a lot of fans couldn't wait to assure us Brissett was unacceptable; and all we needed to do was start Dobbs.  They was wrong!

Right now, the guy in charge of our Offense (Stefanski) is doing what he did to Kirk Cousins. Minnesota fans quickly became critics of the Cousins' contract.  If memory serves me right, their best WR Stephon Diggs wanted out of that offense.  Some of that was the design of the pass routes and lack of knowledge covered up by the ole "this is a TE friendly offense."  Yeah, they really made a star out of former 1st round pick Kyle Rudolph (from ND) there. Translating that to Cleveland - Austin Hooper was a disappointment while Harrison Bryant hasn't developed into the guy we hoped he would become as a former Mackey Award winner in college.   Both Cousins and Diggs are much happier today without Stefanski's handcuffs on their talent. I'm not seeing many receivers or TEs blossom here.  

It feels like we've become that Minnesota fan base, only with a much worse track record on finding the right QB and giving them the successful environment to succeed in.  Minnesota differs because guys like Rich Gannon, Warren Moon, Brad Johnson and even Randall Cunningham (who put up the best passing numbers and QB rating of his career) played extremely well in the WCO there.  A well proven system vrs trial and error. A lot of anger, frustration and hostility with only the QB receiving it all.  At 1 point, the commentators showed a replay of Browns' Receivers downfield just standing there next to the DBs in lieu of adjusting the route to the situation.  Most of the opponents left on our schedule will be able to stop Chubb on 3rd and long.

I keep telling people we're at the mercy of a horrible owner listening to FO guys making another Poseiden Adventure on Lake Erie out of this football franchise.  The 1st thing I'd do if I was the owner (Heaven Help us!) is tell Stefanski you weren't hired or paid to just be the OC.  I would make the Head Coach of this mess micro-manage the shit out of this Special Teams nightmare (also counting currently another another Coordinator from Zimmer's chicken shit football program in Minnesota).  Our Defense just forced them to punt from their own yard line and they rough the kicker without anyone even close to blocking that punt. 

Younger players are not getting developed in this football program.  Don't let the media circus about Watson blind you to all this.  If you want to see great QB development and the perfect environment to get that done look at Philly.  Look what they added on their perimeter.  Does anyone need to learn HOW TO FUCKING CATCH a football there?  Not to worry though, fans are going to think the QB (the symptom) is the only problem.  They always do like the T-Shirt full of names of QBs that failed here.  That T-shirt is just as much (or more) of a reflection on the shit at the top of this franchise. The sentence this to the Head Coaches and QBs this fan base is well trained to hate.  With every firing follows a hiring that ends up with the same exact result.  The Browns have gone nowhere since 1999 because the people at the top of this organization. 

Which gets to a question I have.. We have arguably the best running attack since the days of Mack and Byner and if you want to take that further.. Chubb is the best back we've had since Jimmy Brown...We have Watson who is said to be a top 5 QB in all the NFL landscape currently.. My question is are we gonna become a pass happy team to appease Watson  , or.. Will we remain a run first first team with Chubb and Hunt presumably..  The record has shown that Kevvy neutered Cousin and under his tutiledge..... Cousins was never going to reach full potential under Shitpantski... And we are seeing evidence of this in Minny... What makes anyone think DW will reach his potential under Shitpantski at this point? I personally think Kevvy neuters this team... And if Kevvy remains... What makes anyone think DW wants to stay here?... I get the need for a franchise QB... But we have seen under optimal conditions we can win with Brissett,, If only we had a stalwart defense like B'more and Pittsburgh historically puts together. I mean Trent Dilfer and Joe Flacco weren't anything special. Yet they won championships... We've seen theres more than one road to Mecca.. But Kevvy just instills chest hair ripping annoyance and aggravation at this juncture....

[nickers]

1 hour ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Dude,

Wtf is wrong with you? This game draws that much hate from you? You need to find a woman,.or get drunk. Lighten up.

I put him on ignore where he belongs... He continues to act like a 12 year old.. So... I will treat him like a 12 year old... I have uniggied him 2x's thus far and he never fails to resort to acting like Little Lord Fauntleroy. He thinks hes God's gift to football knowledge... I can't fathom why he has such a hard on for me... I don't mind being wrong  and someone saying Hey dude, No... It's like this.. IIt's not a crime , but he treats people like they're some kind of asshole.... It's plainly obvious he has an incurable case of Dunning Kruger Effect. And he has an insane amount of insecurities...

 

 

Definition of the Dunning-Kruger effect

The Dunning-Kruger effect is when a person does not have skills or ability in a specific area but sees themselves as fully equipped to give opinions or carry out tasks in that field, even though objective measures or people around them may disagree. They are unawareTrusted Source that they do not have the necessary capabilities.

It also suggests that people with less competence in a given area are more likely to unknowingly overestimate their competence, while high performers often have a tendency to underestimate their skills and knowledge.

Experts have applied this concept to many aspects of life, from the abilityTrusted Source to recognize faces to influencing political decisions without fully understanding the issues.

[Turkey Jones]

1 hour ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Joe Frazier was largely responsible for getting Ali back into the ring, helping him financially as well. Then Ali calls the guy a gorilla and an uncle Tom. Ali got his ass kicked twice by Frazier but in II, via loosened ropes, a larger ring than specified, and a ref who warned Ali about holding 200 times but never took a point, he got a fix decision.

If Frazier flattened him, Marciano would have buried him. Fuck Ali.

The quote at issue is “Ali purposely avoided Marciano”. You know in fact that statement is impossible and total nonsense.

[Orion]

23 hours ago, The Cysko Kid said:

This is the 230 millipn dollar man, here. The michael jordan of football, throwing darts at the worms. 

What we were looking for was some improvement in our brand new QB from week one to week two.  I wasn't able to see this game but from most accounts, the QB play was somewhat improved.  From here I'd expect a leveling off and then perhaps tangible improvement for the last couple of games....

[tiamat63]

8 hours ago, nickers said:

 

The Dunning-Kruger effect is when a person does not have skills or ability in a specific area but sees themselves as fully equipped to give opinions or carry out tasks in that field, even though objective measures or people around them may disagree. They are unawarethat they do not have the necessary capabilities.

It also suggests that people with less competence in a given area are more likely to unknowingly overestimate their competence, while high performers often have a tendency to underestimate their skills and knowledge

 This reminds me, you mentioned that Joe Woods' scheme is the problem with the defense.  I've asked, at least half dozen times, for you to explain to me the basics of the Browns 1 gap over fronts that make up the bulk of their calls. 

I've gone as far as to encourage you to download discord and to explain to us in real time on there to your fellow Browns fans. 

 When I go to get my car worked on, and the mechanic says "xyz" is the problem, I've never seen a decent mechanic either fail to, be unable, or refuse to explain in detail the problem.   I don't think of you as a bad mechanic...  So maybe you can help educate some of us at some point.  

 

[Dutch Oven]

4 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

 This reminds me, you mentioned that Joe Woods' scheme is the problem with the defense.  I've asked, at least half dozen times, for you to explain to me the basics of the Browns 1 gap over fronts that make up the bulk of their calls. 

I've gone as far as to encourage you to download discord and to explain to us in real time on there to your fellow Browns fans. 

 When I go to get my car worked on, and the mechanic says "xyz" is the problem, I've never seen a decent mechanic either fail to, be unable, or refuse to explain in detail the problem.   I don't think of you as a bad mechanic...  So maybe you can help educate some of us at some point.  

 

I guarantee nickers has been diagnosed with this Dunning-Kreuger Effect, thus the reason he constantly brings it up. and levies it upon people on this board as some kind of projection on his part. I mean, sweet 8lb, 6oz baby Jesus:

"The Dunning-Kruger effect is when a person does not have skills or ability in a specific area but sees themselves as fully equipped to give opinions or carry out tasks in that field, even though objective measures or people around them may disagree."  is our boy nickers on virtually every topic under the sun. 

I'm just mad that he started the Festivus 'Airing of the Grievances' against me a week and a half early, then put me on ignore. How will we settle our differences via Feats of Strength now? 

[Dutch Oven]

30 minutes ago, Orion said:

What we were looking for was some improvement in our brand new QB from week one to week two.  I wasn't able to see this game but from most accounts, the QB play was somewhat improved.  From here I'd expect a leveling off and then perhaps tangible improvement for the last couple of games....

He definitely improved from Game 1 . His throws looked much better, but you could tell his processing was still slow. You'd see a promising play here and there that reminded you why he was thought so highly of in his first few years, but he was still rusty. 

I agree with your theory of how his last games will go, that sounds pretty fair. No idea if he'll ever get back to his 2020 and before level. 

[Neo]

42 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

He definitely improved from Game 1 . His throws looked much better, but you could tell his processing was still slow. You'd see a promising play here and there that reminded you why he was thought so highly of in his first few years, but he was still rusty. 

I agree with your theory of how his last games will go, that sounds pretty fair. No idea if he'll ever get back to his 2020 and before level. 

Nobody knows. From what I saw of him so far, he is clearly putting in the effort and isn't just going through the motions. Also, I don't agree with what they paid for him but people forget that there weren't too many options out there and was Mayfields shoulder going to be an ongoing problem. The owner clearly thought he was getting an upgrade over Mayfield but time will tell if it was worth it.

[Dutch Oven]

47 minutes ago, Neo said:

Nobody knows. From what I saw of him so far, he is clearly putting in the effort and isn't just going through the motions. Also, I don't agree with what they paid for him but people forget that there weren't too many options out there and was Mayfields shoulder going to be an ongoing problem. The owner clearly thought he was getting an upgrade over Mayfield but time will tell if it was worth it.

Top level QBs are going to cost an arm and a leg. Call the Bengals up and ask them to trade Joe Burrow... after the laughter subsides, they'd hang up on you. 

The problem with our former top tier QB is he's a public relations disaster - and what I've always thought was kind of glossed over - is how is he going to deal with being "the bad guy" everywhere he plays outside of Cleveland. (And trust me, there's obviously many here who don't like him either). Some players have no problem being the bad guy, the asshole. In fact, some probably thrive on it. 

I have some serious doubts that Deshaun Watson is that guy. He doesn't strike me as someone who is going to go all Bill Laimbeer and play like he's Tupac with both middle fingers up screaming 'FUCK THE WORLD'. I think there's a good chance the mental weight of all the shit swirling around him could very well effect his play. 

So yeah, I think physically he'll get back to his 2020 form. Mentally? That's the $64,000 question. And if between the ears, he's rattled by this longterm, the Browns have gambled and lost. 

[syd]

3 minutes ago, Neo said:

Nobody knows. From what I saw of him so far, he is clearly putting in the effort and isn't just going through the motions. Also, I don't agree with what they paid for him but people forget that there weren't too many options out there and was Mayfields shoulder going to be an ongoing problem. The owner clearly thought he was getting an upgrade over Mayfield but time will tell if it was worth it.

I said this somewhere before it is his muscle memory and just willing to trust what his body can do add that to playing for a new coaching staff and different players you can see why it is a uphill climb for him and i really didnt expect him to just come in and light it up after being off for all most two full seasons 

but one thing for sure Watson rusty is still better than mayfield healthy

[Orion]

26 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

No idea if he'll ever get back to his 2020 and before level. 

Right!   I forget who here said it, 'Typically, players don't come here and have their best years.'  

- Somehow, people have to get over the fact that he's our QB.  And all that comes with it....the picks, the 230 mil, the law suits, all of it.  He's it for the foreseeable future.  And if the Holier Than Thou crowd can't hack it, then they should pretend the team moved away again.  When Watson's era in Cleveland is over they can pretend the team moved back.

For these final 4 games, I'm in learning mode on Watson.  I've given every QB a chance to prove that they should be our QB.  Even that knuckle-head Manziel.  I did not want him...but when his name was called he was given a clean 'Browns Player' slate.   And ya know, the one thing that Manziel had was a good clock.  He knew when it was time to leave a pass pocket.  And he put pressure on the D when he did leave it.  But of course, Our Guys thwarted him from playing his brand of football and told him to stay in the pocket and get squished like a grape.  Because that's what you do!  You draft a guy with a particular style and you hammer him into the hole that you have.

Anyway, Watson deserves time in order to prove his ability and value.  Just like anyone else deserves.

 

 

[Dutch Oven]

5 minutes ago, syd said:

but one thing for sure Watson rusty is still better than mayfield healthy

Watson at his best is better than Mayfield at his best. I have zero doubts about this.

But Deshaun Watson today is categorically inferior to Mayfield in 2020, when he was healthy for the entire season and played very well for the second half of the season. 

[nickers]

3 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 This reminds me, you mentioned that Joe Woods' scheme is the problem with the defense.  I've asked, at least half dozen times, for you to explain to me the basics of the Browns 1 gap over fronts that make up the bulk of their calls. 

I've gone as far as to encourage you to download discord and to explain to us in real time on there to your fellow Browns fans. 

 When I go to get my car worked on, and the mechanic says "xyz" is the problem, I've never seen a decent mechanic either fail to, be unable, or refuse to explain in detail the problem.   I don't think of you as a bad mechanic...  So maybe you can help educate some of us at some point.  

 

You're the supposed resident expert....,. I mean whats there to explain"... Delpit looks lost half the time... Joe has them playing too far off their man leaving pockets all over the field...They play too much zone coverage that leaves TE's open in the middle.. They get smoked by TE's  and RB's on a consistent basis... Another thing I don't like is they don't move Garrett around enough or not at all......  Theres always some space left open for a TE or a RB that catches the ball in areas that exposes the defense where by they're getting chunks of yardage... Another thing I don't like.. Is they don't even teach these dudes how to wrap up... No one is held accountable for anything... You oughta go watch My nephew play Linebacker... He's a tackling machine whose getting some nice feelers from several schools.. Another thing that irks me is the secondary gives pass catchers way too much cushion there by letting  average pass catchers get around them for big yardage.. When they plan man.. They usually have better success.... Secondly... Discord eats up too much data on my phone so... That ain't gonna happen...

 

EDIT:... I don't expect them to be perfect... I realize your not gonna stop them on every down.. What they run looks a bit a bit like the 5-2 scheme that Fritz Shurmer ran but disguised as a 4-3 And just about everything looks like nickel packages.. DB's running all over the damn place . I get it.. the interior D line is a mess.. Now I'm not claiming to know it all like some on here... I have more important things to worry about like fucking cancer...

 

 If you don't like my response.. Oh well...

 

 Kiss My Ass!