● Official 🏈 - NFL WEEK 12 - CLE 12 -at- DEN 29 ● What a letdown ● Nov. 26. "L"

[bbedward]

12 minutes ago, AP1 said:

Any intel on whether they're staying out all week or if they flew back to CLE?

They are staying all week and practicing at ucla 

[Flugel]

31 minutes ago, bbedward said:

I mean the way it was going, didn’t look like the team was going to win that game. Dtr was  still rocking a sub-50% completion percentage on 30 attempts.

I’d be happy if walker never played another snap for the browns again.

That was Denver's 5th win in a row so this wasn't exclusive to just DTR.  Mahomes played his worst game of the year vrs Denver if memory serves me right (KC was one of the 5 teams in Denver's winning streak).  DTR is a 5th round rookie QB regardless of how disappointed some want to be in him.  

I have no idea whatsoever why this FO traded away the continuity of Dobbs being here last year and this preseason for some late round pick and/or a Walmart Cola they got in return from the Cardinals.  He had familiarity with the offense and NFL experience at a very important position that ultimately decides whether you win or lose. I can sit here and dwell on that or remember the Browns are 7-4; before I do so I DO have to question why they waited so long to bring in Flacco.  It would have been nice to have him familiar and comfortable with the playbook by now. 

What bothered me was the lack of focus.  3rd and 1 and we false start.  Then it's 4th and 1 and Harrison Bryant fumbles away the snap.  On defense, Alex Wright lined up offsides on back to back plays. You do that against Russell Wilson and he's gonna have your defense exhausted

FWIW, here's what Denver did to KC the last time they played this year during their current winning streak. I think you'll see KC had just as much trouble scoring TDs as the Browns did against them.  

Broncos vs. Chiefs final score

TEAM	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	FINAL
Kansas City Chiefs	3	6	0	0	9
Denver Broncos	7	7	0	10	24

[Bob806]

1 hour ago, bbedward said:

I mean the way it was going, didn’t look like the team was going to win that game. Dtr was  still rocking a sub-50% completion percentage on 30 attempts.

I’d be happy if walker never played another snap for the browns again.

Regarding DTR, I see a kid who has a great upside. He's started 3 games now, yesterday I thought he overcame a jittery start & settled in. WRs, Njoku let him down, along with a truly odd game plan. 

I've been very supportive of Stefanski- yesterday not his finest game. Was he trying to see if DTR can get it done down the stretch? If so, yikes. My opinion is DTR can, but now with the concussion, he's probably out Sunday. 

PJ Walker, sorry. You've got a big heart but just not enough field presence. He's an "emergency only" guy. Well, with all these injuries, he plays.

The Browns are resilient this year. We've all said "how long can it last?" Well, at this point another fairly tough game lies ahead vs the Rams 

Losing DBs and possibly Cooper, DTR, Garrett, playing backups on the O line. Stefanski has his work cut out.

[bbedward]

Just now, Flugel said:

That was Denver's 5th win in a row so this wasn't exclusive to just DTR.  Mahomes played his worst game of the year vrs Denver if memory serves me right (KC was one of the 5 teams in Denver's winning streak).  DTR is a 5th round rookie QB regardless of how disappointed some want to be in him.  

I have no idea whatsoever why this FO traded away the continuity of Dobbs being here last year and this preseason for some late round pick and/or a Walmart Cola they got in return from the Cardinals.  He had familiarity with the offense and NFL experience at a very important position that ultimately decides whether you win or lose. I can sit here and dwell on that or remember the Browns are 7-4; before I do so I DO have to question why they waited so long to bring in Flacco.  It would have been nice to have him familiar and comfortable with the playbook by now. 

What bothered me was the lack of focus.  3rd and 1 and we false start.  Then it's 4th and 1 and Harrison Bryant fumbles away the snap.  On defense, Alex Wright lined up offsides on back to back plays. You do that against Russell Wilson and he's gonna have your defense exhausted

FWIW, here's what Denver did to KC the last time they played this year during their current winning streak. I think you'll see KC had just as much trouble scoring TDs as the Browns did against them.  

Broncos vs. Chiefs final score

TEAM	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	FINAL
Kansas City Chiefs	3	6	0	0	9
Denver Broncos	7	7	0	10	24

Yea Denver is legit, especially their pass defense. I probably wouldn’t have cooked a game plan that called for 40+ passes and so many stupid trick plays, but what do I know I’m not a coach.

 

[Flugel]

1 minute ago, bbedward said:

Yea Denver is legit, especially their pass defense. I probably wouldn’t have cooked a game plan that called for 40+ passes and so many stupid trick plays, but what do I know I’m not a coach.

 

The best thing we can all do is put this stinker behind us and hope the Browns learned from it.  Our defense didn't look the same without Denzel Ward at the back end. We have to hope he can play - especially this week.

[bbedward]

1 minute ago, Bob806 said:

Losing DBs and possibly Cooper, DTR, Garrett, playing backups on the O line. Stefanski has his work cut out.

I mean, losing every single franchise player to injury is usually the end, but we have such a deep DB room (except newsome sucked yesterday for some reason), and the other rooms have stepped up well (like RB). Hopefully Garrett is nothing serious. 

Onto a very tough 2 games against the LA rams who are coming to form and the jags who are looking legit.

Dont care who the QB is, as long as it’s not walker. Never want to see the bad man take a snap for the browns ever again

[Bob806]

9 minutes ago, bbedward said:

I mean, losing every single franchise player to injury is usually the end, but we have such a deep DB room (except newsome sucked yesterday for some reason), and the other rooms have stepped up well (like RB). Hopefully Garrett is nothing serious. 

Onto a very tough 2 games against the LA rams who are coming to form and the jags who are looking legit.

Dont care who the QB is, as long as it’s not walker. Never want to see the bad man take a snap for the browns ever again

Yep. Damnit.

I don't want to be doom & gloom but all the good vibes are slipping away....

[AP1]

1 hour ago, Bob806 said:

Yep. Damnit.

I don't want to be doom & gloom but all the good vibes are slipping away....

The fat lady has not yet sung, it may feel like she's warming up, so I don't want to be fatalistic and speak in platitudes. 

If I'm an owner, in this specific situation, I'm having a meeting with the chain of command informing them they are expected to have maximum contingencies for such a situation and that the current state shows no such contingency was considered. This does not fall on the players that did not show up to play. This does not fall on the coaches that looked unprepared and were outcoached.

This falls squarely on the personnel decision makers, be it DePodesta, be it Berry. I'm not sure about the accountability of the command structure, but someone needs an ass chewing, a good solid ass chewing with passion, emotion and some fists slammed on the desk, and, as a result, someone's leash needs to be a little shorter.

I don't want to blow it up. I don't want people fired. I don't want to start all over. I want to finish as strong as possible, because that's what champions do, and I want every shortcoming assessed, analyzed and remediated and I want everyone from the Owner's Box to the guy that cleans the bathrooms to understand and acknowledge how good it felt to be 7-3, and winning games thought unwinnable. I want everyone to be on the same page and buy in and I want the 2024 Browns to do what everyone thought the 1995 Browns would do - WIN THE SUPER BOWL.

[bbedward]

The browns easily get 3 more wins and a playoff berth still, imo. Too early for doom and gloom. 
 

PJ Walker should never be activated on game day ever again, unless he joins the Steelers or ravens.

Flacco and DTR are both capable of getting wins. DTR brings more mobility, Flacco brings better decision making (likes to chuck it deep and draw pass interferences, and check down to RBs …a lot)

I have a hard time imagining we don’t come away with 1 win between the Rams, Jags, and Texans . Obviously we prefer the wins against the afc teams.

An even harder time imagining we don’t go 3-0 vs bears, jets, and bengals.

Bengals divisional game, but stefanski absolutely owns them and week 18 in Cincy will essentially be another home game

[Bob806]

26 minutes ago, AP1 said:

The fat lady has not yet sung, it may feel like she's warming up, so I don't want to be fatalistic and speak in platitudes. 

If I'm an owner, in this specific situation, I'm having a meeting with the chain of command informing them they are expected to have maximum contingencies for such a situation and that the current state shows no such contingency was considered. This does not fall on the players that did not show up to play. This does not fall on the coaches that looked unprepared and were outcoached.

This falls squarely on the personnel decision makers, be it DePodesta, be it Berry. I'm not sure about the accountability of the command structure, but someone needs an ass chewing, a good solid ass chewing with passion, emotion and some fists slammed on the desk, and, as a result, someone's leash needs to be a little shorter.

I don't want to blow it up. I don't want people fired. I don't want to start all over. I want to finish as strong as possible, because that's what champions do, and I want every shortcoming assessed, analyzed and remediated and I want everyone from the Owner's Box to the guy that cleans the bathrooms to understand and acknowledge how good it felt to be 7-3, and winning games thought unwinnable. I want everyone to be on the same page and buy in and I want the 2024 Browns to do what everyone thought the 1995 Browns would do - WIN THE SUPER BOWL.

Agree 100%

If anybody takes a fall it's DePodesta. But ultimately it's truly on Haslam, & while I'm not a fan of Jimmy, he's not bowing out.

Go Browns

[nickers]

I know this is gonna sound asinine but I really get the sense that Depodesta has his finger on some of the play calling from the booth.. Why I say this is because I get the sense he thinks this team is a live version of fantasy Madden play calling with him.... Like the trickery we tried yesterday just seems so out of flow... I just keep getting this vision of Depodesta sitting there with a Coke in one hand and a XBOX controller in the other.. Yeah sounds ridiculous.. But then I remember Ray Farmer....

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, Orion said:

We have to come back from the west coast 8-4.

Yeah, another game we have to have. The division is out of reach, so we at least have to keep pace with the Steelers. They have winnable games the rest of the way out until they play the Ravens last game. 

We have the Jags and Texans, pushovers no longer.  

[TexasAg1969]

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

The best thing we can all do is put this stinker behind us and hope the Browns learned from it.  Our defense didn't look the same without Denzel Ward at the back end. We have to hope he can play - especially this week.

And hope Garrett's shoulder is normal and not keeping him out for the season. MRI is today. I'd get my bet in now taking LA and giving away 4.5 points. If that MRI result is bad, that spread will double IMO.

[SdBacker80]

294 yards can’t translate to 29 points.

Too many Short fields and turnovers or special teams blunders.  Two of these were really bad yesterday. 

If we are going to win with what I believe is the worst or one of the worst QB situations in the AFC- we have to play field position, limit turnovers and we have to play special teams well covering kicks. 
 

 

 

[Bob806]

37 minutes ago, nickers said:

I know this is gonna sound asinine but I really get the sense that Depodesta has his finger on some of the play calling from the booth.. Why I say this is because I get the sense he thinks this team is a live version of fantasy Madden play calling with him.... Like the trickery we tried yesterday just seems so out of flow... I just keep getting this vision of Depodesta sitting there with a Coke in one hand and a XBOX controller in the other.. Yeah sounds ridiculous.. But then I remember Ray Farmer....

 

It does sound asinine, but they did trade a 2nd rounder (?) for Elijah Moore. While sometimes you have to take risks as a team on moves like that, trying to turn him into Deebo Samuel or Antoine Randall El just isn't working. 

Man, the emotional rollercoaster with our Browns.......

[jrb12711]

19 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

294 yards can’t translate to 29 points.

Too many Short fields and turnovers or special teams blunders.  Two of these were really bad yesterday. 

If we are going to win with what I believe is the worst or one of the worst QB situations in the AFC- we have to play field position, limit turnovers and we have to play special teams well covering kicks. 
 

Yep- despite the 3rd string dude in again, it was absolutely a game (and should have been tied) until the Moore fumble that was completely self- inflicted. Zero percent chance of winning games with this squad with that type of mistake.

I was actually at a wedding so didn't watch this game, but to be honest this one "is what it is". I know a lot of people had this as a "must win" a month ago, but the Broncos are arguably the hottest team in the NFL and Denver is a notoriously tough spot to visit, let alone with a rookie QB. Still got multiple winnable games on the schedule (Rams, Bears, Jets, and Bengals) that making the postseason is still right in front of the team.

[bbedward]

19 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

Yep- despite the 3rd string dude in again, it was absolutely a game (and should have been tied) until the Moore fumble that was completely self- inflicted. Zero percent chance of winning games with this squad with that type of mistake.

I was actually at a wedding so didn't watch this game, but to be honest this one "is what it is". I know a lot of people had this as a "must win" a month ago, but the Broncos are arguably the hottest team in the NFL and Denver is a notoriously tough spot to visit, let alone with a rookie QB. Still got multiple winnable games on the schedule (Rams, Bears, Jets, and Bengals) that making the postseason is still right in front of the team.

Not a must win, maybe if we dropped one against the ravens or Steelers the last couple weeks it would have been more of a must win. Frankly nothing is a must win yet, the browns are still a playoff team as of today.

I have a really hard time seeing us drop the bears, jets, and bungles. One more against the jags, Texans, or rams and we’re in the playoffs. Might even be at 3-3

No idea why Flacco wasn’t on the active roster, PJ Walker is a death sentence for any victory. Normally people are sarcastic when they say some rando on the street could do better, but I mean I think some rando on the street could also manage multiple fumbles, safety, and picks like Walker does.

If you’re gonna put the ball in DTRs hands 30 times in 3 quarters and give him designed running plays against the bounty hunting broncos, then you better not have pj fucking walker as his replacement. 

[jrb12711]

1 hour ago, bbedward said:

Not a must win, maybe if we dropped one against the ravens or Steelers the last couple weeks it would have been more of a must win. Frankly nothing is a must win yet, the browns are still a playoff team as of today.

I have a really hard time seeing us drop the bears, jets, and bungles. One more against the jags, Texans, or rams and we’re in the playoffs. Might even be at 3-3

No idea why Flacco wasn’t on the active roster, PJ Walker is a death sentence for any victory. Normally people are sarcastic when they say some rando on the street could do better, but I mean I think some rando on the street could also manage multiple fumbles, safety, and picks like Walker does.

If you’re gonna put the ball in DTRs hands 30 times in 3 quarters and give him designed running plays against the bounty hunting broncos, then you better not have pj fucking walker as his replacement. 

It's absolutely wild they won a single game with him as a QB. To be honest, watching some with the Panthers I thought it was a definitely "could be worse" 3rd string QB situation. But man- this dude should not even sniff the league. I don't think I've ever seen a guy with less pocket awareness than PJ, it's insane how blitzes just blow that man up.

It's all about lessons learned, and this FO I'm confident understands now that the backup situation can't be trusted to later round drafted rookie and (insert) random dud journeyman. Really sucks to think that Dobbs or Brissett (a longer shot, but I'm guessing would have re-signed with a lucrative deal) were right there. I've always understood the thought process- DTR balled out in the preseason and there's a very, very strong chance if we didn't commit to him on 53 man roster he would have not be a Brown. But the biggest hindsight was letting Dobbs walk.

[Neo]

In regards to DTR, he has made significant strides between his starts. His effort against the Broncos was a good one maybe even a winning effort if it wasn't for the injury. It was a 5 point game when he left, still within striking distance. He had two TD's dropped. But people are critisizing DTR. Some stupid people floating around this board....

[Flugel]

3 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

And hope Garrett's shoulder is normal and not keeping him out for the season. MRI is today. I'd get my bet in now taking LA and giving away 4.5 points. If that MRI result is bad, that spread will double IMO.

It's sounds like we'd only be missing Garrett, Chubb, Watson, Conklin, Cooper, Ward, Walker, and possibly a rookie backup QB.    Plus we lost our veteran Safety for the year.  No big deal - we can win the coin toss.  All kidding aside, ARRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!   

[Neo]

3 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

And hope Garrett's shoulder is normal and not keeping him out for the season. MRI is today.

Is it the same shoulder he injured when he wrecked his car? Just wondering if it's something that is going to linger for the rest of his life?

[bbedward]

Garrett is day to day, no structural damage. Good news in a sea of sadness 

[Browns149]

21 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

I don't disagree, but here is what confuses me. If Flacco and several other accomplished vets are willing to step in and play now. 

With all dure respect to the two alphabet kids, with some proven vets sitting out with no job, why do you not tie one of them up at the beginning of the season?

Am I to understand that management really felt solid with these two kids as backups?

Surely the inference here is that these vets wouldn't accept a back up role in week 1 preseason, but in week 12 they prefer a tempoary position as starter?

What am I missing here?

I am fine with management choosing 2 young kids and not a vet. However, abandoning these 2 choices so quickly to sign Flacco would seem to indicate that management fucked up.

This is the kind of shit that seems to be S O P with the Browns.

It is frustrating to see our team so close, but as always, not rising to the top because of shit that could've and should've been nailed down.

It seems to me they erred in the assessment of the 2 younger guys. Plus Flacco is a statue and they wanted a more mobile guy to run Kev’s offense 

[TexasAg1969]

4 hours ago, Neo said:

Is it the same shoulder he injured when he wrecked his car? Just wondering if it's something that is going to linger for the rest of his life?

yes

[Neo]

5 hours ago, Flugel said:

It's sounds like we'd only be missing Garrett, Chubb, Watson, Conklin, Cooper, Ward, Walker, and possibly a rookie backup QB.    Plus we lost our veteran Safety for the year.  No big deal - we can win the coin toss.  All kidding aside, ARRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!   

Unfortunately, this is where we are as a society. There can be a piece of videographic evidence that tells the truth but people will bend and shape reality to their liking. I been arguing with people about whether the hit on DTR was clean or not, the video speaks for itself. You can see DTR's helmet clearly move as he is contacted by the defender and his chin strap moving up into his mouth from the defenders helmet, probably what caused his bloody lip. It's in the rule book "forcible contact to the head/neck area" But there are always people out there that just deny everything if it's something they don't like. I bet there's even people on here that will defend that hit. I just wanna know why year in and year out our opponents rough up our players like this and nothing ever gets done about it. I saw Fitzpatrick didn't play in our game against the Steelers, I bet everyone's knees were safe that day😏

 

 

[syd]

6 hours ago, Neo said:

Is it the same shoulder he injured when he wrecked his car? Just wondering if it's something that is going to linger for the rest of his life?

he be fine. we will kill the rams

[bbedward]

1 hour ago, Neo said:

Unfortunately, this is where we are as a society. There can be a piece of videographic evidence that tells the truth but people will bend and shape reality to their liking. I been arguing with people about whether the hit on DTR was clean or not, the video speaks for itself. You can see DTR's helmet clearly move as he is contacted by the defender and his chin strap moving up into his mouth from the defenders helmet, probably what caused his bloody lip. It's in the rule book "forcible contact to the head/neck area" But there are always people out there that just deny everything if it's something they don't like. I bet there's even people on here that will defend that hit. I just wanna know why year in and year out our opponents rough up our players like this and nothing ever gets done about it. I saw Fitzpatrick didn't play in our game against the Steelers, I bet everyone's knees were safe that day😏

 

 

It’s an illegal hit, intentionally dirty I’m not sure though. You’re supposed to tackle low after all, no upright

[Browns149]

Watching this awful Monday night game. The Bears have it 3rd and 2. The Vikings are playing press man coverage. The Bears call a WR screen. It loses 3 yards

 

My question is, WHY would you even call that play, and why didn’t Fields change the play?

[D Bone]

1 hour ago, Neo said:

Unfortunately, this is where we are as a society. There can be a piece of videographic evidence that tells the truth but people will bend and shape reality to their liking.....

The irony is delicious.

[nickers]

15 minutes ago, Browns149 said:

Watching this awful Monday night game. The Bears have it 3rd and 2. The Vikings are playing press man coverage. The Bears call a WR screen. It loses 3 yards

 

My question is, WHY would you even call that play, and why didn’t Fields change the play?

Fields is  a shit dumbass QB..