Flugel Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 8 hours ago, ballpeen said: And the reason why. I've never said Winston was the best choice. Simply the only choice, which becomes the best choice. This team, with a good D doesn't need to be conducting a battle of the bands, so to speak. I get where you're coming from more than I allowed myself to when we first started talking about it. As you can see, there are avid Ohio State fans like Dutch and Tia that gave this far better consideration than I did. There's probably others as well. Well played on that last sentence above. We also don't want to be dotting the i if it's an interception. I feel bad for Flacco in the sense his 2 pick 6s in Houston are the final memory of him as a Cleveland Brown. Having said that, I got the feeling he pleasantly surprised most of us with his razor sharp performances near the end of the regular season when we really needed him to. Fun memories as a fan... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 32 minutes ago, Korsou Dawg said: The stuff about JWs personality and locker room presence seems to be very legit indeed. This is a good reminder about what Jameis can offer the Browns and Watson as an older vet that Fields doesn't have the experience to do yet. I took the mini bus to summer school to get to this; but I got to it and forgot my lunch. I just wish we got a better sale on the all you can consume Crablegs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 10 hours ago, Flugel said: I get where you're coming from more than I allowed myself to when we first started talking about it. As you can see, there are avid Ohio State fans like Dutch and Tia that gave this far better consideration than I did. There's probably others as well. Well played on that last sentence above. We also don't want to be dotting the i if it's an interception. I feel bad for Flacco in the sense his 2 pick 6s in Houston are the final memory of him as a Cleveland Brown. Having said that, I got the feeling he pleasantly surprised most of us with his razor sharp performances near the end of the regular season when we really needed him to. Fun memories as a fan... Here's the thing - and tia hit on it earlier - you aren't wrong for wishing the Browns would have used a sixth round pick on a lottery ticket like Fields. And dog help us if Fields actually reaches his potential in Pittsburgh. It's more of a situation of tia, ballpeen and myself realizing that with three years left on Watson's contract, coming off a pretty serious injury and all the off-field nonsense that lead up to it, there just were certain things the Browns weren't going to do regarding the QB room, in our opinion. Doesn't mean you're wrong to want it to happen. Oh wait, I forgot, I never add anything of worth to any of these threads. All I do is add snark and lob personal attacks. Strike everything I wrote above. You are a poopy head. Ahhhh... much better. 🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 Kevin Stefanski Reveals Why Browns Chose Jameis Winston Over Joe Flacco Kevin Stefanski Reveals Why Browns Chose Jameis Winston Over Joe Flacco (factoryofsadness.co) Flacco and Winston basically signed for similar one-year deals around $4-5 million in free agency. So, the Browns' decision was certainly not financial-related. Flacco will likely not start in Indianapolis either as they have promising youngster Anthony Richardson at the helm there. So, role and playing time wasn't a reason, either. For Stefanski, it was solely about Winston's talent and fit. Calling him a "talented, talented football player", Stefanski couldn't contain his excitement about integrating Winston into the offense. That doesn't mean, however, that coach had anything but glowing things to say about Joe Flacco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 5 hours ago, Vambo said: Kevin Stefanski Reveals Why Browns Chose Jameis Winston Over Joe Flacco Kevin Stefanski Reveals Why Browns Chose Jameis Winston Over Joe Flacco (factoryofsadness.co) Flacco and Winston basically signed for similar one-year deals around $4-5 million in free agency. So, the Browns' decision was certainly not financial-related. Flacco will likely not start in Indianapolis either as they have promising youngster Anthony Richardson at the helm there. So, role and playing time wasn't a reason, either. For Stefanski, it was solely about Winston's talent and fit. Calling him a "talented, talented football player", Stefanski couldn't contain his excitement about integrating Winston into the offense. That doesn't mean, however, that coach had anything but glowing things to say about Joe Flacco. Bullshit... its all about Watsons frail mentality.. The huge difference between Flacco and Crab legs is Flacco can overcome his INT's... Jameis historically falls completely apart... Give me the guy whose won it all... Winston is pure trash as a player and a person... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 17 minutes ago, nickers said: Flacco can overcome his INT's... Explains that massive comeback against Houston. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 2 hours ago, tiamat63 said: Explains that massive comeback against Houston. nickers can excuse back-to-back pick sixes when they are thrown by non-running quarterbacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 53 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said: non-running quarterbacks. Flacco is basically nothing like Watson. This is a monkey wrench for the offense when the backup needs to play. Me, I prefer the drop back passer...like Flacco or Tom Brady. The OLine knows where the QB will be. They know he'll only run when time has completely run out and there is no other alternative. I don't like my most important and most expensive player on my football team running around making big fat guys' eyes light up as they're looking for an angle to knock the guy into the blue tent. But that's just me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 40 minutes ago, Orion said: Flacco is basically nothing like Watson. This is a monkey wrench for the offense when the backup needs to play. Me, I prefer the drop back passer...like Flacco or Tom Brady. The OLine knows where the QB will be. They know he'll only run when time has completely run out and there is no other alternative. I don't like my most important and most expensive player on my football team running around making big fat guys' eyes light up as they're looking for an angle to knock the guy into the blue tent. But that's just me. I totally concur! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 8 hours ago, Orion said: Flacco is basically nothing like Watson. This is a monkey wrench for the offense when the backup needs to play. Me, I prefer the drop back passer...like Flacco or Tom Brady. The OLine knows where the QB will be. They know he'll only run when time has completely run out and there is no other alternative. I don't like my most important and most expensive player on my football team running around making big fat guys' eyes light up as they're looking for an angle to knock the guy into the blue tent. But that's just me. You like drop back passers, guys who stay in the pocket because you think that makes them safer... David Carr, Tim Couch and Bernie Kosar all fit that description. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 9 hours ago, Orion said: Flacco is basically nothing like Watson. This is a monkey wrench for the offense when the backup needs to play. Me, I prefer the drop back passer...like Flacco or Tom Brady. The OLine knows where the QB will be. They know he'll only run when time has completely run out and there is no other alternative. I don't like my most important and most expensive player on my football team running around making big fat guys' eyes light up as they're looking for an angle to knock the guy into the blue tent. But that's just me. Flacco is more statue-esque, yes. But don't let a couple designed runs and some work when play structure breaks down trick you into believing that either Flacco or Watson aren't drop back passers who work their eyes and arms first. Passers with mobility have been across the NFL for a long time. Steve Young, McNair, Mcnabb, Ben, Luck, Burrow, Mahomes, etc etc. 24 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said: You like drop back passers, guys who stay in the pocket because you think that makes them safer... David Carr, Tim Couch and Bernie Kosar all fit that description. It isn't just that they are safer, you're limiting potential non-contact injuries. People forget that RG3 knees were aggravated by his lateral cutting ability as much as they were some of the shots they took. In fairness to Orion, your examples above don't work because two of them played behind the worst Olines in the NFL the last 25 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 5 hours ago, Dutch Oven said: You like drop back passers, guys who stay in the pocket because you think that makes them safer... David Carr, Tim Couch and Bernie Kosar all fit that description. Sure, drop back passers get hurt too. Brady missed a season, Rogers missed last season. Llamar Jackson missed a lot of a season by getting hurt while in the pocket...not running. But to me, having your QB running around....designing QB runs, etc....is adding a new level of injury danger to your most important guy in the organization. And there's always the mental / emotional aspect of the defense's mindset when a QB is running around embarrassing them. It makes the big fat guys want to smash the QB into pieces all the more. And let's face it, Watson is no big, burly guy. We had to play most of last season without him because he ran and took on tacklers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 51 minutes ago, Orion said: Sure, drop back passers get hurt too. Brady missed a season, Rogers missed last season. Llamar Jackson missed a lot of a season by getting hurt while in the pocket...not running. But to me, having your QB running around....designing QB runs, etc....is adding a new level of injury danger to your most important guy in the organization. And there's always the mental / emotional aspect of the defense's mindset when a QB is running around embarrassing them. It makes the big fat guys want to smash the QB into pieces all the more. And let's face it, Watson is no big, burly guy. We had to play most of last season without him because he ran and took on tacklers. That's why we need a LT to prevent the joystick QB. The more that habit is repeated the tougher it is to tame. I wish someone would have drilled Elway all those times he left the pocket before any of those 3 Conference Championship games against the Browns. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 10 hours ago, tiamat63 said: In fairness to Orion, your examples above don't work because two of them played behind the worst Olines in the NFL the last 25 years. How about the most famous QB injury that happened in the pocket behind one of the best OLines in NFL history? I'll take Joe Theismann's pulverized leg for $500, Alex... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 (edited) 4 hours ago, Orion said: Llamar Jackson That's funny as fuck if that was intentional. That would actually be a cool name if you had a pet Llama 🤣 Anybody that has played Sim City games knows that the fastest game speed is Llama, which makes it funny Edited March 27 by Neo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said: How about the most famous QB injury that happened in the pocket behind one of the best OLines in NFL history? I'll take Joe Theismann's pulverized leg for $500, Alex... And while you're certainly right, there's a reason that injury is so well known. Next to Alex Smith, that sort of thing just doesn't happen. I think the whole "safer scrambling vs in the pocket" is a bit overblown. The biggest issue between elite passers and pocket presence vs not is the ability to more efficiently move the ball in the air and avoid shots they had no business taking in the first place. Indy with their young QB in AR15 is a prime example. That kid lead himself into contact he had no business being involved in, and wouldn't have been had he been ready to be starting NFL QB. But he wasn't, the Colts overdrafted him then rushed his play in risk of long term development and long term health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 5 minutes ago, tiamat63 said: I think the whole "safer scrambling vs in the pocket" is a bit overblown. The biggest issue between elite passers and pocket presence vs not is the ability to more efficiently move the ball in the air and avoid shots they had no business taking in the first place. Hold your proverbial horses there... I never said it is safer scrambling, and I do get what Orion is saying. My point is I can name quite a few non-running quarterbacks whose careers were riddled with injuries they received from not scrambling or running on designed plays. And here's the thing: Offenses that feature Mobile quarterbacks are EVERYWHERE in high school and college football. There aren't many Joe Flacco's or Drew Bledsoe's anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 1 minute ago, Dutch Oven said: Hold your proverbial horses there... I never said it is safer scrambling, and I do get what Orion is saying. My point is I can name quite a few non-running quarterbacks whose careers were riddled with injuries they received from not scrambling or running on designed plays. And here's the thing: Offenses that feature Mobile quarterbacks are EVERYWHERE in high school and college football. There aren't many Joe Flacco's or Drew Bledsoe's anymore. You're not wrong, but the best athlete being your QB in high school has been a thing since I was a kid. It's only the last 20 years (well, I was still a kid then too) that its sort of 'trickled up'... in a manner of speak. Putting greater emphasis on athletic ability at the QB position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 Look, I understand that a mobile QB is advantages over a non mobile QB (all else being equal). I had to watch John Elway keep us out of 3 super bowls. But Elway (& Steve Young) ran as a last resort. We've got a guy at QB who thinks he's Nick Chubb. He's gonna lower his shoulder and take a guy on and jump up and signal first down. And HE'S got something that Elway & Young didn't have, the ability to slide...and when you do that NOBODY CAN TOUCH YOU. It just pisses the bageezuz out of me that our Quarter of a Billion dollar, 3 first round picks, most important person of the organization, Starting QB...gets himself hurt and out for the season because he's running around with the ball. Now, Paul Depodesta would tell me, "But it's THAT athleticism that makes him WORTH the money and draft picks." To which I would tell Depo, "Then get me a backup QB that can lead us to a super bowl win because we're built to win now and I can't win a super bowl with your Athletic QB on injured reserve." 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 7 minutes ago, Orion said: Look, I understand that a mobile QB is advantages over a non mobile QB (all else being equal). I had to watch John Elway keep us out of 3 super bowls. But Elway (& Steve Young) ran as a last resort. We've got a guy at QB who thinks he's Nick Chubb. He's gonna lower his shoulder and take a guy on and jump up and signal first down. And HE'S got something that Elway & Young didn't have, the ability to slide...and when you do that NOBODY CAN TOUCH YOU. It just pisses the bageezuz out of me that our Quarter of a Billion dollar, 3 first round picks, most important person of the organization, Starting QB...gets himself hurt and out for the season because he's running around with the ball. Now, Paul Depodesta would tell me, "But it's THAT athleticism that makes him WORTH the money and draft picks." To which I would tell Depo, "Then get me a backup QB that can lead us to a super bowl win because we're built to win now and I can't win a super bowl with your Athletic QB on injured reserve." A fucking men! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 11 hours ago, Dutch Oven said: Hold your proverbial horses there... I never said it is safer scrambling, and I do get what Orion is saying. My point is I can name quite a few non-running quarterbacks whose careers were riddled with injuries they received from not scrambling or running on designed plays. And here's the thing: Offenses that feature Mobile quarterbacks are EVERYWHERE in high school and college football. There aren't many Joe Flacco's or Drew Bledsoe's anymore. Slight stretch here; but are any of Kurt Warner's 20 kids or so ready yet? Believe it or not, I was often reminded Dan Marino was very difficult to sack (and the quick release was only part of it). Brady wasn't easy to sack either. Bernie wasn't as easy to sack as he looked either. It's amazing what the combination of brain cells and vision can do for a QB. Today, I'm thinking Jared Goff and Matthew Stafford are what's left representing old school pocket. I say that; but EVERY time Stafford seems to play Cleveland he pulls out this 3 times in a career Lamar Jacksonesque "you ain't sacking this." It seemed like it was only exclusive to Cleveland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 2 minutes ago, Flugel said: Slight stretch here; but are any of Kurt Warner's 20 kids or so ready yet? Believe it or not, I was often reminded Dan Marino was very difficult to sack (and the quick release was only part of it). Brady wasn't easy to sack either. Bernie wasn't as easy to sack as he looked either. It's amazing what the combination of brain cells and vision can do for a QB. Today, I'm thinking Jared Goff and Matthew Stafford are what's left representing old school pocket. I say that; but EVERY time Stafford seems to play Cleveland he pulls out this 3 times in a career Lamar Jacksonesque "you ain't sacking this." It seemed like it was only exclusive to Cleveland. Hell, how many sacks did Roethlisberger get out of in the first half of his career against us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 9 hours ago, Orion said: Look, I understand that a mobile QB is advantages over a non mobile QB (all else being equal). I had to watch John Elway keep us out of 3 super bowls. But Elway (& Steve Young) ran as a last resort. We've got a guy at QB who thinks he's Nick Chubb. He's gonna lower his shoulder and take a guy on and jump up and signal first down. And HE'S got something that Elway & Young didn't have, the ability to slide...and when you do that NOBODY CAN TOUCH YOU. It just pisses the bageezuz out of me that our Quarter of a Billion dollar, 3 first round picks, most important person of the organization, Starting QB...gets himself hurt and out for the season because he's running around with the ball. Now, Paul Depodesta would tell me, "But it's THAT athleticism that makes him WORTH the money and draft picks." To which I would tell Depo, "Then get me a backup QB that can lead us to a super bowl win because we're built to win now and I can't win a super bowl with your Athletic QB on injured reserve." But if he sets up in the pocket and gets his knee blown out like Carson Palmer did in a playoff game vs the Steelers, you are fine with it? Got it. Did it "piss the bageezuz" out of you when Baker hurt his shoulder trying to tackle the defender he threw an interception to in 2021, or does this only apply to running quarterbacks? But you are right, and we've gone over this numerous times, calling a run play/draw play with your quarterback down around your opponents ten yard line was not a smart call, and was just asking for him to get injured. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 On 3/26/2024 at 8:41 PM, Canton Dawg said: Here's the latest NFL body by Lasik from Crablegs: 2023 53.2% comp 264 yards 2 TD passes 3 INT 57.4 rating 2022 63.5% comp 868 yards 4 TD passes 5 INT 79.5 rating We could be re-defining the question - Feeling crabby? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 14 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said: Hell, how many sacks did Roethlisberger get out of in the first half of his career against us? That's it - my coping mechanisms are fired! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 11 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said: But if he sets up in the pocket and gets his knee blown out like Carson Palmer did in a playoff game vs the Steelers, you are fine with it? Got it. Did it "piss the bageezuz" out of you when Baker hurt his shoulder trying to tackle the defender he threw an interception to in 2021, or does this only apply to running quarterbacks? But you are right, and we've gone over this numerous times, calling a run play/draw play with your quarterback down around your opponents ten yard line was not a smart call, and was just asking for him to get injured. Ohio State was ready for his legs. What they weren't ready for was his passing precision. His pose after every back breaking throw was the bow and arrow representing the bulls eye he just hit. Same with Alabama. What did Ohio State and Alabama have in common? A multiplicity of 1st and 2nd round drafts on their defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said: But if he sets up in the pocket and gets his knee blown out like Carson Palmer did in a playoff game vs the Steelers, you are fine with it? Got it. Did it "piss the bageezuz" out of you when Baker hurt his shoulder trying to tackle the defender he threw an interception to in 2021, or does this only apply to running quarterbacks? But you are right, and we've gone over this numerous times, calling a run play/draw play with your quarterback down around your opponents ten yard line was not a smart call, and was just asking for him to get injured. I'm pretty certain he doesn't outrush Josh Allen or ever even come close to it. Let's not pretend he's Michael Vick or Lamar Jackson either. Watson ran a 4.66 forty while Drew Lock ran a 4.69 if we want to put it in perspective. I'd like to see if we can figure out how to use him the way Houston did. Here's his passing and rushing stats that split during the cut and paste; but you can still see the 1st 4 years were Houston and the last 2 were Cleveland SEASON TEAM 2017 HOU 2018 HOU 2019 HOU 2020 HOU 2022 CLE 2023 CLE Career GP CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD INT LNG SACK RTG QBR 7 126 204 61.8 1,699 8.3 19 8 72 19 103.0 83.7 16 345 505 68.3 4,165 8.2 26 9 73 62 103.1 61.8 15 333 495 67.3 3,852 7.8 26 12 54 44 98.0 70.5 16 382 544 70.2 4,823 8.9 33 7 77 49 112.4 63.7 6 99 170 58.2 1,102 6.5 7 5 46 20 79.1 40.4 6 105 171 61.4 1,115 6.5 7 4 59 17 84.3 42.9 66 1390 2089 66.5 16,756 8.0 118 45 77 211 100.8 - Rushing SEASON TEAM 2017 HOU 2018 HOU 2019 HOU 2020 HOU 2022 CLE 2023 CLE Career GP CAR YDS AVG TD LNG FD FUM LST 7 36 269 7.5 2 49 14 1 0 16 99 551 5.6 5 34 33 3 1 15 82 413 5.0 7 30 29 6 1 16 90 444 4.9 3 16 31 4 1 6 36 175 4.9 1 21 10 1 0 6 26 142 5.5 1 16 10 2 1 66 369 1,994 5.4 19 49 127 17 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kvoethe Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 Red Lobster will have all you can eat crablegs on his first start!! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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