AP1

At this point I don't care how the players playing the positions get identified or classified, I just want the Browns to win. I'm sick and tired of watching many other franchises have success over multiple generations. As much as I respect the legacies of my Grandpa's Browns and my Dad's Browns, I want MY Browns and YOUR Browns to win. Now. I'm sick and tired of watching these games thinking, "Man, it'd be great to be a fan of one of the teams playing." Instead I hope the team I hate the most gets beat.

This game is a perfect example of how much of a craps shoot the NFL Draft really is. Mahomes was the 10th player selected overall in 2017. Miles Garrett was #1, Christian McCaffrey #2, DeShaun Watson #12. Baker was the #1 pick in 2018. Lamar Jackson #32. Am I lamenting the Browns not picking Patrick Mahomes or Lamar Jackson? No. I'm thankful for the guys that have helped the Browns become a playoff team two of the last four seasons. But the trajectory of the franchise the last half decade would be different if that little instinct the Player/Personnel and Scouting Department saw or felt about certain players was better.

He even puts a little slice on it the ball that drives it back in.

After the Chiefs lost back to back weeks against the Packers and Bills, I was thinking not their year. At the moment, that TD drive has me thinking otherwise...

I expect him to do what he had done everywhere and that is win. Wildcard Teams are going to need 11 wins to get in the playoffs.

I never said winning two was a guarantee, it's an artificial benchmark created by talking heads to push guys that don't have stats but played the position effectively as game managers.

Which answers my original question. The NFL's PR machine, social media and the podcast circuit gush over how great the current crop of QBs are, but I'm not sure they're HOF material. Bernie, who is probably the most beloved Brown of all-time, was not HOF material. But he led the Browns to three AFC Championship Games in four years in a conference with four other HOF QBs. Josh Allen has been to one AFC Championship Game in six years. I think he has a shot. I think Lamar Jackson will have a shot. I'm not as bullish on the others and I do agree that if Russell Wilson were to win another that he'd probably get in because two time Super Bowl winning QBs get the benefit of the doubt (even as Eli Manning is on the outside looking in). But the current group will put up gawdy stats.

The windows of tolerance have closed since the money in the game has exponentially increased. Most QBs used to get drafted with the plan they would sit for a year or two. For the most part that no longer happens because franchises are trying to assemble rosters based on rookie contracts. Likewise, with what owners are dropping now to own teams they want instant return on investment. Think about this tidbit. Matt Ryan was the first NFL player to have a $30M/year contract. That was signed in 2018. Now half the league is paying their QB $30M a year, and the Browns have the highest cap hit with DW at $63M this year.

Excellent point, so we're officially at the threshold in the NFL, because it has already happened in the MLB and the NBA, where it's difficult to compare eras. So today's QB's won't necessarily get in on QB play, being athletic dual(ish) threats. A 17 game season, faster paced offenses, more favorable rules/officiating and so on. Mahomes is a future HOFer because he's a generational player. What about Allen? Burrow? Hurts? Herbert? Lamar? Lawrence? Tua? Russell Wilson? The rest are too young or don't have stats and/or playoff runs. If all of these guys do get in, then this era would surpass the 90's with the most HOF QBs.

Done

There was a meme posted poking fun at Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold being the front runners for the #1 pick in the 2018 Draft while Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen have had, definitively, greater success in the NFL. That started turning some wheels. Some think QB play in the NFL has never been better, but the 90's might have been the golden era of QB play. Caveat...there might be some asterisks with this list. Joe Montana won all of his Super Bowls in the 80's, but it makes sense (to me) to keep him with this set of QBs because he played against all of them. Peyton Manning and Kurt Warner played in the 90's, but I would consider them in the next era of QBs. 90's QBs in the HOF Aikman Elway Favre Kelly Marino Montana Moon Young Manning/Brady Era Manning Warner Brady will be in Rodgers will be in Roethlisberger will probably be in Brees will probably be in Eli? Rivers? Current NFL QB's Without a Doubt Mahomes Remains to be Seen Allen Jackson Wilson The rest are too young or have not done enough to get in. What do you think? Who have I missed?

The Bill methodically put that last drive together to win the game, then decided they wanted to play for OT. Two deep throws to nowhere and a wide right later, they join the rest of the league in the off-season. Their last two plays before the FGA and the fake punt are three of the most questionable play calls a team made all season.

This was the first thing that popped into my head.

What a punt return.

It's hard to walk away from football, in general, because it's such an exclusive sport. 10-12 year old travel baseball players play more games in a weekend than most high school kids get in a season and more games in a season than most high school kids get in their whole life. Only two teams per class or division get to play 14-15 games in a season. Way too many high school kids try to play small college football. My freshman year at a D3 school, we had 60 freshman. Half didn't come back after the first semester and a quarter didn't make it to their sophomore year. Look no further than the current state of college football where guys are able to make a small career bouncing around two and three schools over six, seven, eight, yes, eight seasons. Most NFL Players hang on as long as possible because they'll never make as much money doing something else, though in the digital/social media age that might start to change. I'm sure the biggest thing the guys miss is the locker room and camaraderie.

They are using inadequate data trying to compare an apples and oranges situation. The NFC South is the weakest division in the NFL. The AFC North is the toughest. The Eagles implosion is one of the greatest in league history. The Texans caught fire at the right time and are one of the hotter teams left. The Bucs could win the Super Bowl and I'll still believe the Browns made the right decision to move on. Baker is a .500 QB and while pinning every win or every loss on a single player is ignorant, big time players step up and make big time plays in big time games. We had a 60 game sample size, and I'll hand it to Baker that he never had a kicker like Dustin Hopkins, a defense like the Browns 2023 defense and a deep threat like Amari Cooper. Once the chip on Baker's shoulder wears down a little bit and he quits riding emotional highs, he settles in and we know what happens. The ball doesn't get downfield. He starts watching a single receiver and he can't see in the pocket.

I felt horrible Saturday night... then I saw a Division Champ get taken apart at home by a WC team that slid in. at least the Browns didn't finish the season 1-6 with a relatively healthy team. and it's nice that Kevin Stefanski didn't walk out of his post game presser like Mike Tomlin. on top of that it's pure gold to hear people questioning "the Steeler Way." It's nice to not have the lingering questions so many other playoff franchises have this morning. The Browns had a fun, memorable, workman-like, next-man-up season where the carriage eventually turned back into a pumpkin and reached the point where they could no longer cover up their inefficiencies with magic. No Team in NFL History ever made the playoffs with the injuries the Browns had. No Team in NFL History ever made the playoffs with a turnover differential as big as the Browns. They overcame and overachieved. The Browns need some depth, to stay healthy and some new additions. But it sure is nice not to have the lingering feeling of "where do we go now?"

Big time thanks on sharing, Gumby. That's very handy!

When the Lions got the first down that sealed the game after that ballsy pass play the TV panned the crowd and the first shot showed two fans, grown men, crying. I'm happy those guys got their playoff win.

It's hard to root against the Lions. With the exception of losing a team to a move, they've endured many of the same frustrations as the Browns.

Do you believe that KS will continue calling plays?

If McCarthy does get the axe from the Cowboys... It is time for the Browns to hire an OC? Would McCarthy, as an OC, be a good fit for the Browns?

I agree. Could they co-exist? Is it guaranteed that BB wants personnel control just like in NE or does he just want to coach? JJ comes across as more of a micro-manager then Bob Kraft. BUT I think part of the Patriot Way is keeping a strong facade and all matters internal.

Is the Mike McCarthy Era over in Big D?