Head-to-Head Hits & New Rule Discussion

[admin]

NOTE: The abundance of threads on the subject of destructive hits and the NFL's new rule to curb such hits, will be consolidated into ONE THREAD at 10:00am EST.

We do not want to downgrade this topic as non-important, but there are just too many threads started on this one subject and we would like to allow all the opportunity to discuss other topics, the upcoming games, and other aspects of the Cleveland Browns.

The single thread will be available to continue discussion, and in one simple easy-to-follow single thread format.

Thanks for your understand.

[The Fan Of STEEL]

Matt Millen said it the best. If they change this rule, they screw the game of football and all the fans. He was pissed as are most of the players who are being interviewed about this new rule.

 

Atenears, you really should take up a nicer sport like bocce`. More your cup of tea.

[The Fan Of STEEL]

We want the same rules to apply to our opponents as apply to our players. When our player made a similar play, he was flagged immediately and heavily fined. Your player has yet to receiver either.

 

With the penalty now increasing, who do you think has a better chance of falling prey to this new punishment? Your team which seems to ALWAYS get away with this type of shit, or ours who get flagged for every push, love tap, and close call?

 

In that regard, the sport was already ruined ... welcome to YOUR aftermath.

 

 

Because as your own team players said... there was nothing illegal about that hit. It was clean. Get over it. You whinners will ruin this game. Go get your skirt girl.

[BrownIndian]

Matt Millen said it the best. If they change this rule, they screw the game of football and all the fans. He was pissed as are most of the players who are being interviewed about this new rule.

 

Atenears, you really should take up a nicer sport like bocce`. More your cup of tea.

 

i take it you dont know any other way to tackle other than to smack one person's helmet with yours ? You see a lot of fans slating Harrison, Do u see them slating Troy Polamalu ? He is a probowler and a tackler and the way he plays seems to be more like he plays to stop the offense not to drive the person into a coma.

[ATENEARS]

Atenears, you really should take up a nicer sport like bocce`. More your cup of tea.

 

Hey that reminds me. I was looking for a way to make a little extra scratch on the side. Do you think prisoner trading cards would go over as huge in Pittsburgh as I do? The Pittsburgh Children could trade for their favorite role models during recess and lunch ...

 

This hasn't been implimented in Pittsburgh yet has it?

[BrownIndian]

At least the browns players have some balls and admit that it was not a dirty hit and is a part of the game. You people who want a pussified version of this game should watch flag football.

 

i think we should put u in a browns uniform and throw u against Harrison .

[BrownIndian]

McGinest's hit on Ben had helmet-to-helmet contact.......

 

 

All of Goodell's actions he has taken so far as Commish all have been done to help set up his plan to increase revenue by forcing players to play 18 games. The NFL is currently too rough to have players playing 18+ meaningful games. Goodell knows the 18 games schedule he is cramming down everyone's throught harder than Obama and his bailouts will only week if the game is softened.

 

Scooby doo I dont want to exploit the players by making them play 2 extra games but I dont mind them getting hammered and wasted for life after they suffer a severe injury. I really care about players .... really !!!!!!

[Mr. T]

Some of these guys dont know how to tackle. They think they are superman and can roadblock them down. And the Larger receivers, tight ends and so on bounce off and run down the field.

 

Try and roadblock down a Hillis and you will get ran over.

 

Watch our LB's everyone of these guys know how to tackle and they never give up on a play.

 

 

Time for fundamentals.

[BrownIndian]

WTF??? What are the Brownies going to do, hit us with their purse??? Our backups will be in, and we STILL will be favored by +3 in the Puppy Pound.....you guys keep whining about the refs, meantime we'll be bringing home Lombardi #7.

 

No Lombardi - The only thing u guys will bring in with Harrison is a dead body ! maybe they will finally lockup the murderer but i think the Rooney football League and his puppet Goddell will find ways to defend that too

[jrb12711]

yea, on sportscenter they did just make the best point about this and why currently this rule is ridiculous. The rule right now is any "devastating" hit is grounds for suspension. However, there are absolutely zero guidelines on what makes a hit devastating, therefore making it completely subjective. I don't see how you can mandate such a serious rule like that and not set precise rules. I expect to see a lot of suspensions coming soon

[Captain Cheesedick]

If anything goes with the steelers, I say the first time Hiney Ward catches a pass, the db's go for his knees and take one out completely.

 

Self-defense is justified now.

 

I'd grab Troy PollyisaGirlieMan's hair, and fling him ten yards.

 

After, the steelers want to play rough? Wait til they come to Cleveland....

 

paybacks are in order. Sad to see my friend Rich defending the putspuke headhunters....

 

 

Yea, just wait till the come here! We are going to whine about the hits and complain about the refs, so loud, they won't know what hit em!

[admin]

NOTE: The abundance of threads on the subject of destructive hits and the NFL's new rule to curb such hits, have be consolidated into this ONE THREAD at 10:00am EST.

We do not want to downgrade this topic as non-important, but there are just too many threads started on this one subject and we would like to allow all the opportunity to discuss other topics, the upcoming games, and other aspects of the Cleveland Browns.

This single thread will be available to continue discussion, and in one simple easy-to-follow single thread format.

Thanks for your understanding.

[hx214]

Here is the simple fact on the subject, Hits like this cost the NFL money.

 

Players like Desean Jackson going down for a few weeks because of a hit like this costs money for the NFL because they lose a marquee player. They lose a guy that lights up the highlight reels and gives the shows like "The OT" and "The RedZone" someone to talk about.

 

You think they give a rats ass about Mo Mass?

 

I can pretty much guarantee that if that hit on Jackson hadn't happened this weekend there would be no talk of any of this from the league.

 

If Harrison would have power bombed Tom Brady a few weeks ago like he did Vince Young, they would have called time out on the field and had him arrested and thrown in jail. Vinny doesn't even warrant a flag being thrown. Yet the hit was enough to draw a fine AFTER the game. Go figure.

[Go 'Losers]

A Pittsburgh Steelers fan perspective:

 

1. Yes, I feel there should be some action taken for Harrison's hit on Joshua Cribbs. Helmet to helmet hits are ALWAYS a no-no!

 

2. The hit on Massaquoi? I'll end up agreeing with what the league puts out. Contrary to Solomon Wilcots calling, the hit was not helmet to helmet but there IS a chance the NFL may rule that he was defenseless.

 

I obviously like having James Harrison on our team and love his skill and intensity. HOWEVER, he may need to change something in his play so a player doesn't get critically injured. A player at Rutgers was paralyzed from the neck down this weekend, that should put things in perspective.

 

As for his comments: "I don't care if I hurt players, I just don't want to injure them" TRANSLATION: Its football and the game hurts, what he says is he doesn't mind the hurt because its part of the game but he N-E-V-E-R wants to intentionally take someone out of the game or threaten their career (for what its worth, there is a difference)

[calfoxwc]

The steelers and their ignorant fans who support ben rocksforbrainsbooger and cheapshot harrison suck rotten eggs.

 

The NFL will, imho, suspend harrison.

 

When steeler "any violence goes" comes back around to haunt you steeler fans who support it....

do NOT come here and cry "unfair". It will be a payback, several times over.

 

steeler trolls and dirty steelers stink up this forum, and they probably kill fish in the rivers near the stadium.

 

steelers don't play football. they play thugball and terroristball.

 

okay, so the steeler trolls and steelers don't really suck rotten eggs.

 

They really, really, really, really suck rotten eggs.

 

The steelers mistake is... they still have to play the Browns again, in Cleveland.

[Go 'Losers]

The steelers and their ignorant fans who support ben rocksforbrainsbooger and cheapshot harrison suck rotten eggs.

 

The NFL will, imho, suspend harrison.

 

When steeler "any violence goes" comes back around to haunt you steeler fans who support it....

do NOT come here and cry "unfair". It will be a payback, several times over.

 

steeler trolls and dirty steelers stink up this forum, and they probably kill fish in the rivers near the stadium.

 

steelers don't play football. they play thugball and terroristball.

 

okay, so the steeler trolls and steelers don't really suck rotten eggs.

 

They really, really, really, really suck rotten eggs.

 

The steelers mistake is... they still have to play the Browns again, in Cleveland.

Then make me the exception, read what I wrote right above you...

[drake54]

since when was the game about smacking someone in the skull and not about stopping someone from getting to the endzone. big hits are fine just don't hit someone in the head.

 

would you like to wake up one morning 15-20 years after retirement and not remember your kids names, your grandkids names. think about it and understand its about lives after football.

 

to everyone who says the game has become soft. go put your elf on the line for 5+ years sure the money will be ok but what about all the pain. if you wind up in a wheelchair with a feeding tube you'd be saying the game needs to be fixed.

[calfoxwc]

Then make me the exception, read what I wrote right above you... Go'lers

********************************

Yes, I wouldn't include you in that rant... @@... it's more the trouble making trolls that were the point...

 

But the NFL has to take -unnecessary roughness- to the point of outlawing any direct hit by a helmet, period.

 

I forget who said it on TV, but it's a great idea - coat the helmets with foam, to avoid the violent impact.

 

But leading with the head is stupid, and a player crippler. Sometimes, it's the hitter that is sorry for the rest of his life,

 

because it ended up HIS permanent injury.

 

BTW, there have been some classy, honest Steeler fans around here, and it's fun to bicker with them about the games...

 

but the other stuff isn't worth reading.

[calfoxwc]

I don't believe this has been posted yet... ? but it's a terrific article on this thread's subject:

**************

Report: NFL to announce suspensions for helmet-to-helmet hits

FOX Sports

 

NEW YORK

The NFL will announce by Wednesday that players will be suspended for devastating hits and head shots, according to a report Monday night by ESPN.

 

The announcement would be effective immediately and include even first-time offenders of helmet-to-helmet hits.

 

''There's strong testimonial for looking readily at evaluating discipline, especially in the areas of egregious and elevated dangerous hits,'' Ray Anderson, the league’s executive vice president of football operations, said in a phone interview earlier on Monday. ''Going forward there are certain hits that occurred that will be more susceptible to suspension.''

 

Anderson, a member of the league's competition committee and one of its loudest voices on the need for enhanced player safety, said the NFL could make the changes immediately, with Commissioner Roger Goodell's approval. League officials would consult with the players' union, but he didn't expect any opposition.

 

''Obviously suspensions would be a much bigger deal than fining guys,'' said Colts center Jeff Saturday, the team's player representative. ''But if guys are headhunting out there to knock a guy out of the game, that's the only way to take care of it.''

 

On Sunday, the Eagles' DeSean Jackson and the Falcons' Dunta Robinson were knocked out of their game after a frightening collision in which Robinson launched himself head first. Both sustained concussions.

 

Ravens tight end Todd Heap took a vicious hit from Patriots safety Brandon Meriweather that Heap called ''one of those hits that shouldn't happen.'' The team was in contact with the league about the tackle.

 

''The thing we try to coach our players to do is basically hit in the strike zone,'' Ravens coach John Harbaugh said. ''Try to make an effort to do that and keep your head out of it. It's not just the safety of your opponent, it's safety for yourself. When you throw your head in there like that you put yourself at risk. It's just not good football.''

 

Steelers linebacker James Harrison sidelined two Browns players with head injuries after jarring hits. An NFL spokesman said one of the tackles, on Joshua Cribbs, was legal. The Browns were more upset about Harrison's hit on Mohamed Massaquoi, which the league is reviewing.

 

''The one against Mohamed was illegal,'' Browns tight end Benjamin Watson said. ''I can't judge his character, I can judge his conduct. It was an illegal hit. He led with his head. He hit Mo right in the head. He dove at his head. Whether he meant to hurt him or not, I can't comment on that. It was illegal and the league should take care of him with the max, whatever it is.''

 

Harrison defended those hits after the game.

 

''If I get fined for that, it's going to be a travesty,'' Harrison said. ''They didn't call (a penalty) on that. There's no way I could be fined for that. It was a good, clean legit hit. ... I didn't hit that hard, to be honest with you. When you get a guy on the ground, it's a perfect tackle.''

 

Anderson wouldn't speculate on how many players would be punished for hits from Sunday's games. Players also can be ejected from games for illegal hits, but that's rare.

 

It's also a part of the game the league has outlawed. As far back as 2007, NFL officials were told to eject players for such flagrant fouls. The NFL said Monday that 17 players have been ejected since 2007. The AP accounted for 14 of those ejections: nine for throwing a punch or fighting, two for contact with officials, two that fall into the category of helmet hits, and one for head-butting.

 

There have been occasional suspensions in recent years, including safety Roy Williams, then with Dallas, for one game in 2007 for three horse-collar tackles during that season. Tampa Bay cornerback Elbert Mack and New York Jets safety Eric Smith each drew one-game suspensions for ''flagrant violations of player safety rules'' by launching themselves into an opponent helmet first.

 

Last season, Carolina defensive back Dante Wesley drew one game for launching himself into a punt returner who had not caught the ball and was in a defenseless position.

 

 

 

NFL Week 6 photos

Check out the best action from around the league in our Week 6 photo gallery.

Retired safety Rodney Harrison, now an analyst for NBC, was adamant about the need for stiff, swift punishment. He was fined more than $200,000 during his career and suspended for one game in 2002 for a helmet-to-helmet hit.

 

''You didn't get my attention when you fined me 5 grand, 10 grand, 15 grand,'' he said during the pregame broadcast for ''Sunday Night Football.'' ''You got my attention when I got suspended and I had to get away from my teammates and I disappointed my teammates from not being there. But you have to suspend these guys. These guys are making millions of dollars.''

 

Tony Dungy, the former coach and Harrison's broadcast partner, echoed his sentiments - something that wasn't lost on Anderson.

 

''When someone as respected as Tony Dungy and a player respected for his play and known for his hitting prowess such as Rodney Harrison say that, in fact, fines do not have a deterrent effect and that suspensions might, it is sobering,'' he said.

 

Not only is the league concerned with defenders turning themselves into human missiles, but with aiming for the head with the forearm, shoulder or any other body part.

 

''The fundamentally old way of wrapping up and tackling seems to have faded away,'' Anderson said. ''A lot of the increase is from hits to blow guys up. That has become a more popular way of doing it. Yes, we are concerned they are getting away from the fundamentals of tackling, and maybe it has been coached that way. We're going to have to look into talking to our coaches.''

 

Dolphins safety Yeremiah Bell wonders if the NFL is getting ''too strict'' about tackles involving the helmet.

 

''As a defensive player, you have to think about how you hit somebody now, which is totally ridiculous to me,'' Bell said. ''You're trying to get a guy down. Sometimes you get caught leading with your helmet. When you're going to tackle a guy full speed, you can't really think, 'Oh, I have to hit this guy a certain way.' You have to get him down as best you can. Sometimes it's helmet to helmet, which guys aren't trying to do, but that's just the way it is. It's part of the game.''

 

Eagles coach Andy Reid saw the Jackson-Robinson collision from close range.

 

''That was a tough one there from both sides,'' Reid said Monday. ''The league has put a lot of emphasis on removing the helmet out of the contact point, in particular around the chin or neck area. But some of these are bang-bang. That was a bang-bang deal right there. That wasn't something this kid had planned. He wasn't going to go in there and knock himself out. That's not what he was trying to do here.''

 

Jets safety Jim Leonhard was flagged 15 yards for a helmet-to-helmet hit on Brandon Lloyd in a 24-20 win over the Broncos. Denver coach Josh McDaniels called it an example of how hits often look vicious on TV, but aren't really what they appear.

 

''I don't think there's anybody that's out there coaching helmet-to-helmet hits,'' McDaniels said. ''I sure know we're not and I don't believe in my heart that there's anybody out there trying to hurt other players.''

 

Asked recently about the league's effort to eliminate helmet hits, Dr. Hunt Batjer, co-chairman for the NFL's Brain, Head and Neck Medical Committee, said:

 

''If it is not getting the message out, I don't know how to do it. It has been broadcast at every level not to lead with your head. In the heat of battle, things are going to happen. But they just have to be a minimum.''

 

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

 

 

[Kosar_For_President]

The real question is why so many are happening NOW?

[hillis4prez420]

A Pittsburgh Steelers fan perspective:

 

1. Yes, I feel there should be some action taken for Harrison's hit on Joshua Cribbs. Helmet to helmet hits are ALWAYS a no-no!

 

2. The hit on Massaquoi? I'll end up agreeing with what the league puts out. Contrary to Solomon Wilcots calling, the hit was not helmet to helmet but there IS a chance the NFL may rule that he was defenseless.

 

I obviously like having James Harrison on our team and love his skill and intensity. HOWEVER, he may need to change something in his play so a player doesn't get critically injured. A player at Rutgers was paralyzed from the neck down this weekend, that should put things in perspective.

 

As for his comments: "I don't care if I hurt players, I just don't want to injure them" TRANSLATION: Its football and the game hurts, what he says is he doesn't mind the hurt because its part of the game but he N-E-V-E-R wants to intentionally take someone out of the game or threaten their career (for what its worth, there is a difference)

 

 

Thank you. I was tired of Steelers fans talking about how they were clean hits. If Ward got fined for the hit on Shippley, then harrison needs to be fined at the very least.

[hoorta]

''The fundamentally old way of wrapping up and tackling seems to have faded away,'' Anderson said. "A lot of the increase is from hits to blow guys up. That has become a more popular way of doing it. Yes, we are concerned they are getting away from the fundamentals of tackling, and maybe it has been coached that way. We're going to have to look into talking to our coaches.''

 

Yup, it's gone from "tackle the guy with the ball" to tackle the ball. If you can put your helmet on the ball to cause a fumble, GOT FOR IT!!!.

 

SportsCenter had a blurb on ALL the hits in question, and I was able to take a look at them frame by frame, and here's my take.

 

The Desean Jackson hit was pretty much unavoidable, it happened too damn fast.

 

The hit on Todd Heap was BS, the guy should get suspended for it. The defender could clearly see Heap was going to miss catching an overthrown ball by at least five feet, THEN he lowered his head and cold-cocked Heap in the head. Utterly unnecessary. Poster play for what the league is trying to outlaw. What ever happened to sportsmanship?

 

I've mellowed on Harrison's hit on Massaquoi- MoMass was ducking and trying to cover up. But if TJ Ward got a 15 yarder and a fine for a similar hit on Shipley, Harrison deserved(s) no less.

 

The one that's upsetting to me is the hit on Cribbs. If it's not illegal, it should be. Harrison could see Cribbs was in the process of going down- and only his head and shoulders were exposed. Harrison lowers his head and creams Josh in the helmet. HELMET FIRST. You can see Cribbs' head snap sideways at least six inches from the impact- he's lucky he didn't wind up with a broken neck. NO effort to assist the tackle by going with his hands to the shoulder pads.

 

Then the thug is clueless post game and "I only hurt people- don't want to injure them". Well Mr Harrison- you helped make this bed of no head shots- now you're going to have to live in it. And believe me the rest of the league is well aware of your tactics now, and if you don't want to get suspended on a regular basis, I'd suggest you change them.

[The Fan Of STEEL]

[calfoxwc]

I take it that that picture is going to be sexually assualted by ben rapistberger?

[The Gipper]

 

 

I think this discussion is giving me a headache. Someone please earhole me and put me into an unconscious bliss!

[miktoxic]

Well, you guys may as well cut TJ Ward now. With the rules changes they are proposing an enforcer type in the secondary will be rendered useless. All the bitching and moaning the xxxxs in this country, especially within the Browns fanbase, looks to be causing the league to crack down on "devestating hits". That means even if a hit is 100% by the rules legal,the player can be suspended if he hits too hard.

 

This is the fukkkking destruction of the NFL as we know it, and you clowns are sitting around applauding it. We should all have fun talking smack on which one of us has the better flag football team for the next decade. This shit is knee-jerk reaction at it's very worst.

 

Destruction of the NFL, and we are all witness!

YEP AND YOUR COACH IS GOING ALONG WITH IT! HA!!!

 

Steelers coach Mike Tomlin favored stricter enforcement of helmet hits.

 

"I'm all for player safety," Tomlin said Tuesday. "I think it is the proper initiative that the NFL has. I think we need to safeguard the men that play this game to the best of our abilities and make it as safe as we can.

 

"We've used words like flagrant and egregious and lowering the strike zone and those are words you use as a coach to make sure you're playing within the rules ..."

 

Tomlin, however, still thinks Harrison's tackle on Massaquoi was legal.

[hoorta]

Well, you guys may as well cut TJ Ward now. With the rules changes they are proposing an enforcer type in the secondary will be rendered useless. All the bitching and moaning the xxxxs in this country, especially within the Browns fanbase, looks to be causing the league to crack down on "devestating hits". That means even if a hit is 100% by the rules legal,the player can be suspended if he hits too hard.

 

This is the fukkkking destruction of the NFL as we know it, and you clowns are sitting around applauding it. We should all have fun talking smack on which one of us has the better flag football team for the next decade. This shit is knee-jerk reaction at it's very worst.

 

Destruction of the NFL, and we are all witness!

 

If the NFL is getting to sissy for you, there's always UFC.

 

EDIT..... :lol: you guys may as well cut Harrison- that's if the goon doesn't quit first.

 

I ain't said squat about hits too hard, and neither has anyone else for the most part. The league is justifiably going after unnecessary kill-shots before it winds up with another Darryl Stingley on it's hands. Ahem- there's guys who would rather make the highlight reel on ESPN for blowing a guy up than bothering to make a sound, fundamental tackle. Oh and I've seen it happen where the guy launches himself, the offensive player manages to bounce off, and it's six.

 

Especially Browns fans? Bulls**t. This isn't just Browns fans POed about Harrison. I'm sure Ravens fans are equally up in arms about that sucker blow to the head on Todd Heap. I live in Bengal country, and rest assured, they haven't forgotten the cheap shot Hines Ward delivered that busted their guys jaw. Obviously you haven't been watching ESPN lately- this is NATIONAL news. Or you guys are just in denial. Just wait until Benny Boy or another marquee Steeler player gets knocked out for a couple of games with a similar shot- and I can guarantee you trolls will be singing a different tune.

[miktoxic]

and for those who don't know the difference between a tackle and a 'devastating' hit:

 

TACKLE

 

 

 

 

DEVASTATING HIT

 

[chessgoon]

First, let me congratulate the browns on finding a keeper at QB. McCoy looks to be the first good QB the browns have had in about a decade. Secondly, every browns fan, including everyone on this board, gets down on their knees and prays every night that their team will find a linebacker like James Harrison. Period. And I know for a fact that every one of you would be singing the praises of such a player if he was a Brown. What Browns fan's heart doesn't go pitter-patter when they see footage of Jim Brown concussing players with forearm shivs? You all do. Admit it. What browns fan doesn't chortle at footage of Turkey Jones dropping Terry Bradshaw on his head? You all do. Admit it. Who among you didn't pump their fist when TJ Ward laid a stick on Mendenhall with 3 min left in a game that was already over? You all did. Admit it. So what's Harrison's crime?- The same crime that is committed on your team twice a year since forever. He was bigger and stronger, hit like a truck, and he wore black and gold.

[Mark O]

Per Rich Eisen on twitter..

 

Harrison will be hit with a $75,000 fine for the hit or hits on Sunday.

 

Guess the league disagrees with the Steeler fans who live here who say the hit wasn't illegal huh?