Shep Posted November 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 And after all that... you know it's coming... "the best teams are the teams with the best quarterbacks." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 And after all that... you know it's coming... "the best teams are the teams with the best quarterbacks." I don't disagree. But the best QB's can lose with garbage talent...and garbage coaching. They all go hand in hand. So let's get the best everything, this way we don't have to worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 I'd like to counter that point by presenting to you the Denver Broncos, who won with Jack Del Rio at the helm. The same Del Rio who posted only 3 winning seasons in 9 years in Jacksonville and has a career winning percentage of .489. I would also like to present to you Nick Saban, who may be one of the greatest coaches of all time, and failed miserably in Miami due to having an absolutely garbage team. Great coaching doesn't matter if you have a bad team. I'd be willing to bet that Mangini, Davis, and Crennel could all put together 8 win seasons in Denver. The two go hand in hand, obviously. But having no on field talent is much harder to overcome. You'd have to be a genius to win with a shitty team, and you'd have to be an idiot to lose with a great one. Jack Del Rio may have gotten credit for a win as head coach but Peyton Manning runs half the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Jack Del Rio may have gotten credit for a win as head coach but Peyton Manning runs half the team. That's the point. Bad coaches can win with great talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 That's the point. Who? WSS Bad coaches can win with great talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Couch, that is so cool and self-aware, gotta give you massive props. Honestly, if we could all be that self-effacing, life would be 20 times more fun. Here's an article that praises Skrine and Gipson... but inadvertently points out that Gipson isn't covering great. He's getting a rep as a big hitter but he's ranked 33rd among safeties in completion percentage. Jauron loved his coverage abilities, said he could play corner, so that's a bit troublesome and might be part of our problem on third downs. He needs to improve in that area (like Skrine)... or we need a safety who covers better. The hits? We got those. In today's NFL, you need safeties who can step up and cover a slot or hybrid TE. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/11/cleveland_browns_secondary_sho.html Goes back to YOUR question... what could another play at that position do to add to the W column?... cover better. He has been the suspect on a couple 3rd downs I've seen at least... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 That's the point. Who? WSS Bad coaches can win with great talent. Jack Del Rio was the aforementioned example. Career win percentage of 48%, won last week by basically letting the Broncos just do what they do. It's easier for a shitty coach with great talent to win than it is for a great coach with shitty talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Unlike the SEC? not everyone on an SEC defense gets drafted in the NFL. there are different divisions out there. our DL would eat alabama's for breakfast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 I came into the season not liking Manziel at all but man the more I watch him the more I like the way he plays. This dude isn't QBing for a team that gives up like 15 points a game he has to score points.. Much as you, I was a hater.. then grew enamoured... Now? I'm cooling on Johnny as our QB for two reasons: 1. The team we are close to being is only going to give up 15 points or so a game. We won't need a gunslinger and I do not think Johnny has it in him to "dial back" his aggression (recklessness)... not for a few seasons anyway. This is the basis for the Favre comparison I made a couple days ago. 2. I was seeing Johnny as one of those QBs who was smart enough to avoid hits while on the run, e.g., Russell Wilson. Then in the past couple games he took some big hits. I now think significant injury awaits him in the NFL. It doesn't have to make sense, I'm going to be stubborn on this. I have to, after all of the garbage I talked about him in the offseason. I'm not sure stubborn is allowed here... Here's an article that praises Skrine and Gipson... http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/11/cleveland_browns_secondary_sho.html Good article... shows that putting in the hours studying tape is a key to playing well at the NFL level. I really wish there was a free site with the pass defense metrics quoted in the article In my eyes, a successful defense needs three things: a badass ballhawk safety, an intelligent and hard hitting MLB and an effective pass rushing OLB. Those are primary needs. With those pieces in place, you can begin to focus on building a strong secondary and strong defensive line. We have two of the three, and a solid safety who is neither a liability nor a playmaker. We have a solid line, a great CB, a solid #2 CB, a run supporting SS, and a plethora of rushers. We're one playmaker away from having the absolute best defense in the NFL. We're at a point now where we can afford to take BPA almost all draft. We don't have a need so glaring that we will have to reach (QB excluded). If the BPA in the second is a safety, id like to see us go safety. If it's a TE, I would like to go TE. Also a Reed fan. Flip a coin between he and Ronnie Lott. Ed had more big years; Ronnie had more years. Seems both end their careers with the Jets... Kinda agree on your 3 keys. If talking 3-4, then to your three I have to add the NT for a total of four. For a 4-3 I can stay with 3, but would sub a pass rushing DE for your OLB. Clearly we have our NT, but I think we are still shy both an ILB and an OLB from being a dominant D. On the BPA approach... I'm right there with you. Hopped on that bandwagon a week or so ago. And with my McCarron fettish I don't even exclude the QB position. And after all that... you know it's coming... "the best teams are the teams with the best quarterbacks." Which is appropriate for this thread... and this thread only!!! Awful lot of saftey talk for a QB thread lately... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 That's the point. Bad coaches can win with great talent. And great talent can lose with bad coaching. Again, I use the KC Chiefs as Exhibit A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shep Posted November 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Actually, the Chiefs had talent everywhere but where it matters most by miles, quarterback. Then they got a competent one (and that's about all he is this year, competent) and they're winning. Much like us. I don't see Smith or Dalton in a Super Bowl, though, and I'm a Smith fan. Ditto McCarron and Murray. Probably Hoyer, too. I expect the Broncos to dismantle the Chiefs. Hell, we should've beaten them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Actually, the Chiefs had talent everywhere but where it matters most by miles, quarterback. Then they got a competent one (and that's about all he is this year, competent) and they're winning. Much like us. I don't see Smith or Dalton in a Super Bowl, though, and I'm a Smith fan. Ditto McCarron and Murray. Probably Hoyer, too. I expect the Broncos to dismantle the Chiefs. Hell, we should've beaten them. Manning's health is an issue in that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shep Posted November 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 For sure, but something tells me he'll be fine. He doesn't need to practice (as he just said) so he can pretty much spend the week healing. He doesn't run so as long as he can plant and throw, he's good. It's gonna be a situation where Alex Smith has to make plays... which he's proven he can do, more than once. But he still seems a little uncomfortable in this offense. Dude was literally the most accurate passer in the NFL last year but isn't anywhere near those numbers now. It's weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 For sure, but something tells me he'll be fine. He doesn't need to practice (as he just said) so he can pretty much spend the week healing. He doesn't run so as long as he can plant and throw, he's good. It's gonna be a situation where Alex Smith has to make plays... which he's proven he can do, more than once. But he still seems a little uncomfortable in this offense. Dude was literally the most accurate passer in the NFL last year but isn't anywhere near those numbers now. It's weird. If there was ever a game to worry about Manning being injured, it's this one. Division rivals, playing for first, Manning has an injured ankle and the Chiefs have the best pass rushing defense in the league. It's almost like a movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 Actually, the Chiefs had talent everywhere but where it matters most by miles, quarterback. Then they got a competent one (and that's about all he is this year, competent) and they're winning. Much like us. I don't see Smith or Dalton in a Super Bowl, though, and I'm a Smith fan. Ditto McCarron and Murray. Probably Hoyer, too. I expect the Broncos to dismantle the Chiefs. Hell, we should've beaten them. that's because they sucked for 10 years and had #1 top ten picks who they scored on for those many years. yes, all they needed was a QB and some offensive weapons. too bad bowe blows and smokes. andy reid fell into the perfect head coaching position. but it shows you how bitched-out they are (the FO and coaching staff) to play bowe given his problems. think andy's sweating in his jockeys. god damn right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 I don't know or care enough about the Chiefs history but I kind of wonder how many of those high pics are still there and developing. Unlike the Cleveland Browns who usually have a new front office and coaching staff with every cycle of the moon who all feel the need to purge the entire draft of their predecessors. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shep Posted November 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 We've had mostly good drafts, which is why so much of our team is homegrown, including UDFAs: Thomas, Mack, Lauvao, Schwartz, Gordon, Little, Benjamin, Cameron, Kiki, Taylor, Ruben, DQJ, Robertson (kind of), Haden, Skrine, Gipson, Ward, McFadden, Bryant. We just whiffed on the 2012 first round. Badly. But we've accumulated a lot of drafted or UDFA talent everywhere but QB and RB. This team is really built for the long haul, very much like the Steelers. And that's prior to an offseason teed up to be epic, with 10 picks and tons of cash. I think the next 10 years will be a fun time to be a Browns fan, including stadium and uniform upgrades. I think we'll be relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 Yep the future is bright. Jared Abberderis is the best wide reciever in college. Blake Bortles game winning throw was amazing....maybe the best game winning catch I've ever seen. Michigan blows and all their players want out lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shep Posted November 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 Abberderis reminds me a ton of Robert Woods in just about every way. He isn't a ton of anything (big, fast, quick) and had to walk on and earn everything he got. But he gets open and he makes catches. We could use an add like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 We've had mostly good drafts, which is why so much of our team is homegrown, including UDFAs: Thomas, Mack, Lauvao, Schwartz, Gordon, Little, Benjamin, Cameron, Kiki, Taylor, Ruben, DQJ, Robertson (kind of), Haden, Skrine, Gipson, Ward, McFadden, Bryant. We just whiffed on the 2012 first round. Badly. But we've accumulated a lot of drafted or UDFA talent everywhere but QB and RB. This team is really built for the long haul, very much like the Steelers. And that's prior to an offseason teed up to be epic, with 10 picks and tons of cash. I think the next 10 years will be a fun time to be a Browns fan, including stadium and uniform upgrades. I think we'll be relevant. I agree & the Richardson trade has cemented Fan confidence in this Front Office, something that has long been missing. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Jared Abberderis is the best wide reciever in college. Been on his bandwagon for a while now. He certainly was the best 3rd round prospect in the draft, but the secret is out on Jered now. Not sure how high he will rise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Bortles had another solid day. 27/38 404 yards 4 TDs 0 INT I'll take this love affair to the grave. I think he'll have a better NFL career than many of the top QB's in this draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Bortles had another solid day. 27/38 404 yards 4 TDs 0 INT I'll take this love affair to the grave. I think he'll have a better NFL career than many of the top QB's in this draft. who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalabazooka Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Bryce Petty is likely going to be the steal of the draft. He's like Mariota, but with the tradeoff of rushing ability for pocket presence and passing skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 That's why I put Bryce Petty in my draft mock, dumb as it is at this point. I honestly think he may be the only qb in this draft that I would trade up for... he's elite in qb smarts, and is mobile, and really, really accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 I don't think many people are expecting Petty to enter this year's draft... but, you never know. He has been the best college QB this season and if he declares, his name will fire up draft boards... Blake Bortles is the QB for UCF. He's 6'4" 240lbs. Really having a great season and is starting to turn some heads. The game against Louisville where he lead his team to 38 points against the now #1 ranked scoring defense was impressive. He is a junior and not many are expecting him to declare this year, but again you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 There are a lot of underclassmen who will need to decide if they're coming out, or staying back another year: Bryce Petty - BAY Johnny Manziel - TA&M - pretty clear he'll be declaring Teddy Twatwater - LSU - no brainer Marcus Mariota - ORE Blake Bortles - UCF Brett Hundley - UCLA Kevin Hogan - Stan The seniors are: Derek Carr - FresSt Tajh Boyd - CLEM Zach Mettenberger - LSU AJ McCarron - ALA Aaron Murray - UGA Stephen Morris - MIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 I don't think many people are expecting Petty to enter this year's draft... but, you never know. He has been the best college QB this season and if he declares, his name will fire up draft boards... Blake Bortles is the QB for UCF. He's 6'4" 240lbs. Really having a great season and is starting to turn some heads. The game against Louisville where he lead his team to 38 points against the now #1 ranked scoring defense was impressive. He is a junior and not many are expecting him to declare this year, but again you never know. hey you gotta make your money when you can, especially considering the injury threat and blowing all chances of being a first rounder. actually saw clowney make some plays today. i guess his agent said you better show something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shep Posted November 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 I like Petty a lot... just wish I'd seen more of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 As many decent seniors as there are in the draft, I'd think many of the underclassmen will stay in school... Watched David Fales (Sr. @ SJST) warm up last nite and then his first two series. First I'd seen of him and I was kinda intrigued by what I saw, but too tired (and disinterested in the game) to stay up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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