listercat Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 All players are one injury away from retirement. And Winslow is not a draft failure. He's put up top 5 TE numbers for 3 years now. True; that was not my best take...or my intent. My point is that he has been very injury prone; it is obvious that we are in rebuild mode and I am fine with someone who claimed to be a soldier (I actually WAS one; 'visitor' in Iraq) with a complete attitude problem is gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listercat Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Probably tonight or tomorrow. They will likely reveal that the pick is indeed this years 2nd rounder, and next years is a conditional pick that has the potential to be a 2nd or 3rd if winslow produces. According to Sirius NFL; WTAM we receive a second this year and a fifth next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geech Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Bucs 2nd rounder is pick #50 Good spot for a lineman Zombo The Brinkley scenario is intriguing, but Jennings or Greene to go along with a Center (Eric Wood) wouldn't be bad, neither. OG Duke Robinson wouldn't be bad, but he'll likely be gone by #50. Besides, I think our weakest link on the OL is at Center. We can get by with Tucker and Shaffer on the right side for another year or two. Fraley starting in 2009 is hard to justify. -Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 I am quite pleased with this....ESPECIALLY if we did get a 2nd this year & another pick in '09 or '10. Kellen has (had) great talent, BUT he..... Is NOT a good TEAM player Does NOT "choose" to block IS injury prone & looking at a short productive career....AND I feel he would be gone soon as he becomes a FA, so.... Why NOT get something for him while value is still there for him. There is a LOT that will be available in the 2nd round this year & I have been worried that Winslow would end up being a very costly mistake for the Browns in the long run. The new guys are NOT sitting on their hands & that is a good thing....IMHO, they are off to a fine start. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Get rid of Braylon while you can....or sign him to long term....either or is necessary. In my opinion no way in hell can we sign BE to a long term...he wants OUT of Ohio....trade him to the Giants now , while we can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 32 players who were drafted ahead of Tom Brady? LOL! That's a classic Thaak! Thank you! - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 At this moment I am with your thinking Solon and I would sing Houdmazahdeh if possible for a fair price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Coudln't do it against bad teams w/o Winslon either this past season. I just don't draw a lot from Winslow being out in that game a reason for good play. Obviously that wasn't the ONLY reason Masters BUT our offense was so far less predictable. I think we're on the same page with that statement. When Winslow is out there, he's not very good if we have to run off tackle or run wide. That has never been his game and after all the injuries - it's even less his game. As he admits, he patterned his style of play after Jeremy Shockey. I heard that in one of his interviews and found the parallels undeniable. And in the absence of Shockey in NY - they had TWO 1000 yard rushers in 2008 after they went unbeaten in the previous post season (without Shockey again). Brian B of Balt always says Shannon Sharpe's blocking was underrated as he said on ESPN Radio don't forget he was there the season Lewis rushed for 2000 yards. As I said, I appreciated Winslow when he was here BUT the wear and tear made this move brilliant because he's a fraction of the player he WOULD have been barring surgery #1, #2, #3 and #4. Always had GREAT hands and ran good routes. The frequency of yellow flags thrown at him for pushoffs was increasing this last season. This is a perfect time to deal him. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 The most impportant thing about this thread is it is pinned ...........like dumping a drain on the franchise requires thus Good riddance Kellen as useless as you ever were' and thank goodness maybe the browns are going beyond comatose' \ WHAt a greAT MOve duMPINig thaT SLUG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OconRecon Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 I just lurked through a thread on the Bucs board and their reaction seems mixed. Some bummed they lost draft picks and others excited. Most seem to think it was a fair deal for both teams. We'll see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 and if Mangini is worth a shit...........Rogers needs to go as well..........overhyped average performer in a team that cannot play the scheme Did you watch a single Browns game last season? Rogers filled the NT roll to perfection. He can play the scheme. Now the "big baby" routine he is pulling now is a whole different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Obviously that wasn't the ONLY reason Masters BUT our offense was so far less predictable. I think we're on the same page with that statement. When Winslow is out there, he's not very good if we have to run off tackle or run wide. That has never been his game and after all the injuries - it's even less his game. As he admits, he patterned his style of play after Jeremy Shockey. I heard that in one of his interviews and found the parallels undeniable. And in the absence of Shockey in NY - they had TWO 1000 yard rushers in 2008 after they went unbeaten in the previous post season (without Shockey again). Brian B of Balt always says Shannon Sharpe's blocking was underrated as he said on ESPN Radio don't forget he was there the season Lewis rushed for 2000 yards. As I said, I appreciated Winslow when he was here BUT the wear and tear made this move brilliant because he's a fraction of the player he WOULD have been barring surgery #1, #2, #3 and #4. Always had GREAT hands and ran good routes. The frequency of yellow flags thrown at him for pushoffs was increasing this last season. This is a perfect time to deal him. - Tom F. I agree it was far less predictable w/o Winslow. Though when they gave Harrison touches instead of Lewis w/ Winslow in, running was fine. But if CLE wants to pound the rock, it doesn't work w/ Winslow in. Shockey was a whole different animal. He was a problem in the locker room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbndawg Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 I see this as a lateral move. Winslow wasn't a needed piece or a missing piece for the Browns to be successful. Maybe they do something with the draft picks that will help or maybe they just get rid of a guy that is high risk due to his injuries and is not a club house guy. I'm just not that worked up over this deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plumcrazy73 Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Hate to see him go loved his play, (would have loved to see how good he would have been had he not been injured) loved is desire. But we were smart to get something for him. Glad we got the 2nd this year. Think at least a 4th next would have been better. Better to get something for him while we can rather then have him try and get his big payday from us before he finally can't take it anymore. I WISH WINSLOW THE BEST OF LUCK AND LIFE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 for you guys whining about his "shelf life" you act like winslow is kurt warner's age, the guy is 25 and has many great years to come, I am very upset that they traded him. Warner didn't destroy his knee in a motorcycle accident- it could be worse than you think. He also doesn't have to outrun linebackers or cornerbacks on every play. Doesn't have to block them either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Jamal will be 30 in Aug and has alot of wear and tear. There have only been a handful of RB's to continually play at a high level in their 30's I think you may be the only one in the world that thinks he's going to rush for 1,300 yards have 9 TD's and a 4.4 ypc avg like in 07. Give me a break! He's a situational short yardage back at best that is not worth paying 6.5 mil to next year. So If they can't restructure his contract he needs to be released. I should of woke up this morning reading that we cut Lewis because he wouldn't restructure his contract rather than read that we traded one of our best players! BULL$HIT! my bad, i meant 29.5 yrs. care to wager on JLew for '09? i put the over/under at 1,200. obviously i'll take the over. loser.....? no $$. i'm a good sport. if he's traded this bet is null. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraDawg Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 How much cap space was opened up with this trade ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OconRecon Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Man, lose both K2 and BE. If it happens, nobody saw that coming. Wonder if we'll go after a veteren WR, like Houshamazilli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Man, lose both K2 and BE. If it happens, nobody saw that coming. Wonder if we'll go after a veteren WR, like Houshamazilli. Isn't T.J on his way to Seattle? Or isn't that a done deal yet? Other than Houshmandzedah I don't think there is a lot out there via free agency. the better ones like Mcdonald or Henderson are smaller slot type WR's. If they trade Edwards maybe they are going after Crabtree. If you try and replace Edwards in in the second round I'd think you'd be taking a huge chance if you are planning on that player contributing a lot. I think there may only be two 2nd round WR's. Kenny Britt and Brian Robiskie. Some have Heyward-Bey going in the second round but I think he's a late 1st or very early second. I like Britt a lot but I think some have said he is a bit of a head case I love the fact that with 3 or 4 second round picks we could still see Connor Barwin in a Browns uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OconRecon Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Isn't T.J on his way to Seattle? Or isn't that a done deal yet? Just finished watching NFL Total Access and they ended the show with a "T.J. will land somewhere, we just don't know where" comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Yeah, at OBR they're getting some hints that Edwards might get moved if they can get a reasonable offer and someone who can make a reasonable extension deal with him. I can't imagine we'd get more than another second round pick. But if we did the same with Anderson, we'd have four second round picks and we could do some serious moving around with that. I'm not one for trying to build a team solely with 23 year olds, but you could turn a 1 and four 2s into about 7 picks in the first three rounds... and then trade away the rest of your draft. That's a serious influx of youth at the top of the draft. Then, with all the money saved by unloading Edwards, Winslow, Anderson, and Lewis, you'd have about 35 million for free agents. You could really pinpoint the right personnel for your scheme, that's for sure. You'd be turning over five positions on offense and probably four on defense. Good teams are built on drafts and Free Agency. Good draft picks down through the entire 7 rounds. It's amazing how many 3rd, 4th and 5th rounders you see on depth charts in the NFL. I'd love to see this team completely start over with a bunch of kids mixed in with Vet FA signings. A 1st round pick and 4 second round picks this year and you could have 1/4 of your new team built in just two rounds in one draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manbearpig Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 I for one will miss him. I think he is a good player (when healthy) and I do think he gave it his all. That being said, he could be better. Honestly he is one guy I would have liked them to keep. I feel that at this point there are a lot more people to get rid of before you toss a guy with hands like that! Then again I am not a coach. Let's wait and see what happens... that's part of the fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 I was looking at K2's numbers. In 5 years he played 44 games and scored 11 TD's. I think it's amazing we got a 2nd rounder for him. I think it's an absolutely great deal for the Browns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobalaz Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Look, I've been saying it for a while now. The kid has a bum knee (and it's his own damn fault). His contract is up too soon and he's going to want a big, multi-year deal. He'll never play out that big contract and we're going to take a huge hit to the cap when it happens. It gives us 2 options: 1: Let him play out his contract here and get one more productive season, then let him walk. 2: Take what we can get now why he still has value and use those picks to build. We went with #2, and even though it's a hard pill to swallow it was the RIGHT thing to do whether we liked it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 my bad, i meant 29.5 yrs. care to wager on JLew for '09? i put the over/under at 1,200. obviously i'll take the over. loser.....? no $$. i'm a good sport. if he's traded this bet is null. A little history for ya- ask Flugels- I've never lost an Internet bet. You mean $1,200? LOL. You're on- I'll take the under, and unless he seriously restructures he's as good as gone. The Lewis of '08 reminded me exactly of Jerome Bettis at the end of his career. Strictly a short yardage situational back. As compared to the current crop of elite RBs in the NFL, he's totally lost his burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Just finished watching NFL Total Access and they ended the show with a "T.J. will land somewhere, we just don't know where" comment. Hooshiemooshie will command #1 wr pay, and I'd dump Bray-Bray for a second round pick, and pick up TJ at BE's salary in about a second. BE's serious case of gator arms last season is just an exacerbation of a problem he's always had- not being able to hold onto the football. If he hasn't cured the problem by now, it's not happening folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Great move Browns dumping the slug of uselessness Kellen Winslow JR..........GREAT DAY IN BROWNS HISTORY ridding ourselves from that slug and if Mangini is worth a shit...........Rogers needs to go as well..........overhyped average performer in a team that cannot play the scheme Winslow isn't the worthless player you make him out to be Rich. At least we got something for him before his knee totally gave out. Tells me the Browns think KW won't last more than 2 seasons. And you're dead wrong about Rodgers. The guy played nose tackle perfectly- you want to lay some hate- put it on our LBs- the lot of them aren't worth what we got for KW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Yeah, at OBR they're getting some hints that Edwards might get moved if they can get a reasonable offer and someone who can make a reasonable extension deal with him. I can't imagine we'd get more than another second round pick. But if we did the same with Anderson, we'd have four second round picks and we could do some serious moving around with that. I'm not one for trying to build a team solely with 23 year olds, but you could turn a 1 and four 2s into about 7 picks in the first three rounds... and then trade away the rest of your draft. That's a serious influx of youth at the top of the draft. Then, with all the money saved by unloading Edwards, Winslow, Anderson, and Lewis, you'd have about 35 million for free agents. You could really pinpoint the right personnel for your scheme, that's for sure. You'd be turning over five positions on offense and probably four on defense. Although I agree with your overall synapses...I just think making such a big turnover so sudden is risky business...I mean these arent just roll players and bench players were moving...These were guys who were supposed to be the core of the franchise And I dont think anyone can stomach another 4-12 season...Mangini hasnt made alot of friends lately and wether you like him or not...that has to be disconcerting to the fanbase starved for a winner...Im not altogether sold on Mangini...But Am open minded enough to give him enough rope to hang himself If he so does.,...I just wonder what were gonna replace these vets with......I just cant help but envision Hal and "The Gibber" Laughing at all of us...Its a pretty sick feeling and I really dont like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Yeah, at OBR they're getting some hints that Edwards might get moved if they can get a reasonable offer and someone who can make a reasonable extension deal with him. I can't imagine we'd get more than another second round pick. But if we did the same with Anderson, we'd have four second round picks and we could do some serious moving around with that. I'm not one for trying to build a team solely with 23 year olds, but you could turn a 1 and four 2s into about 7 picks in the first three rounds... and then trade away the rest of your draft. That's a serious influx of youth at the top of the draft. Then, with all the money saved by unloading Edwards, Winslow, Anderson, and Lewis, you'd have about 35 million for free agents. You could really pinpoint the right personnel for your scheme, that's for sure. You'd be turning over five positions on offense and probably four on defense. I agree, and think that is what we intend to do. Right now, Mangini and KOK have no investment in this team. Once they go through a season, they are invested. And there are no players on this team invested in the staff. Mangini wants to bring in a class of players who are invested in him...players who were drafted by him, players who feel responsible to him. I can see Edwards gone in a week or two....add Rogers to the list. Rogers is way harder to replace then Edwards, but it is imperative that guy hits the road. He is going to be a problem. I would rather go through the season with Rubin playing the nose. Edwards isn't that darn hard to replace. While we may not replace him with a superstar, there are always some good receivers to be had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 I have a feeling Kevvy Shafe is going to released in another cost cutting move. The Browns are definitely looking at drafting either a center or RG/RT along with another FA. Anybody making big money is in jeopardy, with the exception of Steinbach and Thomas. I highly doubt Lewis is back, especially if we can get Ward and draft a Green type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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