Unsympathetic Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 How do you think we should address the non-OL blocking issue from this past season? Current Roster TE: Barnidge, Bibbs, Telfer FB/HB: Johnson [likely cut] The problem is that none of the TE have proven to be worthwhile blockers, and Johnson isn't an NFL caliber athlete. Barnidge is more suited for the "look-out block" ["McCown, look out! I got beat again!] than anything substantive. Are Bibbs or Telfer ready to do something useful? Telfer's draft profile asserts blocking ability.. it's surprising he didn't earn PT. Bibbs is a pure pass-catcher. Perhaps one of the FB's [Gronk's brother from KSU?] would be worth a late-round pick? I'd think it would depend on the scheme Hue wants: if they want 2 TE's and no FB then draft a blocking TE instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 You are speaking as if the team has ultimate authority on the issue. Every FA this year knows their is a ton of money to be had especially after the salary cap increase. Keeping Benjamin requires Benjamin wanting to be kept, Common sense also suggests that Hue Jackson has a pretty good chance attracting Marvin Jones and/or Mohammed Sanu to Cleveland. I'm pretty sure we'll have Josh Gordon back, too. Would it be nice to keep Benjamin? Sure. Is he a must-keep, no way. I'd much rather the effort is expended on retaining Gipson, Mack, or Schwartz. So why are you correcting him like you are the authority? Doesn't that also mean the Mack we already gave a dream contract to has to want to stay? And is he? I'd like to keep Schwartz too now that he is playing his best football every bit as I'd like to keep Benjamin. But does he want to stay? I already covered the Jones and Sanu part in my reply to Hoorta 1 post up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 I think he's worth keeping as I've stated so many times. Let's start by understanding this subject heading we're in and the other one we've disagreed in about our cap space of over 42 million $. It never looked like he needed to be franchise tagged; and it sounded like close to being signed ended in a nitpick barrier to signing him. I never got the financials to put a specific money value to it. We've never even come close to being in cap trouble especially now that there's a rookie salary cap tag teaming our tradition of keepers drafted so I give this how much a big fat DILLIGAF (Do I Look Like I Give A Flock?). My repetitive take on Benjamin is easy and it shouldn't hurt your feelings as much as it has Larry. For a franchise that has not had to pay any of its draftees a #1 WR salary and throughout 2015 (in a world of what have you done for me lately), why not pay Benjamin a good salary someone else will pay him anyway if we were as close to his yes tag as the subject heading implies? We've done way worse with free agency such as guaranteeing 9 million $ to a WR that played his last good football in 2011. Are you going to word surgery this into Flugel thinks Benjamin is way better than Antonio Brown? For the record I don't. If we're going to hear we have to build program continuity through the draft - why not KEEP our current success stories when they're beginning to play their best football? Cleveland invested 3-4 years (despite endless turnover w/ QBs,HCs, OCs and FO) for this 4th round draft pick to become just as productive as a WR as he's been in the return game. Now that he is a better WR, his 4.3 speed helps open up underneath routes for teammates as well as seams for the TE (who played the best football of his career as well). Is it Benjamin's fault he had to be our best WR in 2015? No. Building through the draft is important but you have to be GOOD at it while the Cleveland Browns have been awful at it. What WRs have we drafted that were good enough to make the team in 2013, 2014 and 2015? Understanding that, we don't have the following draftees rallying around the loss of an Emmanuel Sanders to free agency: Antonio Brown, Markus Wheaton, Martavis Bryant, and Sammie Coates. Another important variable to that is to understand how many of those guys joined that team without a 1st round contract/salary (2 of them before the current structure w/a rookie salary cap). If we had been drafting other WRs worth keeping in 2013, 2014 and 2015 - I wouldn't find it nearly as important to retain Travis at this time. Seriously, I'd be okay with it if I didn't have to take inventory of what is in the WR Corps today. So, where are you? Cleveland is going all in on free agency at WR this year (with 2 guys Sanu and Jones) right after we let a 4th round WR depart for free agency and not too long after press conferences revealed we won't be making any splash in free agency. Makes perfect sense coming from a guy calling me out about how much $ we can afford to part with. And you'll be excited we have Sanu replacing Benjamin? Part of what makes guys like Jones and Sanu seem attractive right now is their beneficiary status from opponents' match-up priorities to guys like AJ Green, Eiffert, and Bernard considerably easing their match-ups/attention. Meanwhile, Benjamin was often drawing the #1 corner or a corner plus Safety over the top in 2015 as our guy that had never even been asked to be our #2 WR all the while he was here before 2015. I like to think he was a pleasant surprise especially considering how many here even had him making our team in 2015 prior to training camp. If your reliable football messiah ever decides to show up and be a #1 WR for all 16 weeks for the very first time as a vet - one would have to think the sum of Gordon + Barnidge + Duke could give us an even better version of Benjamin than 2015. He'd have easier match-ups than he had in 2015 as our substitute #1 producer at WR. Keeping Benjamin to go with your most reliable hero of all time at WR also means we don't have to draft Doctson at #32 in lieu of going defense there. We can add a WR in round 4 or 5 with the understanding we're receiving 3 mid round comp/supplemental picks on top of what we are scheduled for. Seems like a formula for less growing pains in the passing tree around a rookie QB or just continuity for McCown when/if the rookie isn't ready. You didn't need to write a novel Tom. I'd like to keep Benjamin too, FWIW. If Travis wants to shop around, and come back with a number for the Browns to match- that's his prerogative. If it happens to be a stupid number, we'll see if the Browns want to eat up the cap paying him. Oh and you didn't answer the question- again, so I'll answer it for you. I pay Travis the lower end of what a #2 WR is making in the NFL. Happy now? Since he opted for FA, he (or his agent) obviously think he's worth more than what the Browns were offering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Bibbs is a pure pass-catcher. But a willing blocker... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 You didn't need to write a novel Tom. I'd like to keep Benjamin too, FWIW. ......I pay Travis the lower end of what a #2 WR is making in the NFL. Since he oped for FA, he (or his agent) obviously think he's worth more than what the Browns were offering. Im with you Hoorta....I dont really see anybody here saying we should get rid of Benji....at all.... Though I see a ton of people saying not to overpay in order to keep him...and, by definition, overpaying is overpaying.... I cant believe the Browns plan to use Benji as their #1, so he's gonna play #2 or slot....and we are already contractually committed to Hartline and Hawkins in those roles.....plus we have Gabriel, who is pretty comparable to Benji stat wise.....so, does a team who has WAY overpaid in the past for marginal talent do it again?....especially for a second tier role that already has 3 other comparable players?.... So....yeah....lets keep him if he's willing to play for fair value.....and if he thinks he's worth All pro money, then let him go get it elsewhere.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 Though I see a ton of people saying not to overpay in order to keep him...and, by definition, overpaying is overpaying.... I cant believe the Browns plan to use Benji as their #1, so he's gonna play #2 or slot....and we are already contractually committed to Hartline and Hawkins in those roles.....plus we have Gabriel, who is pretty comparable to Benji stat wise.....so, does a team who has WAY overpaid in the past for marginal talent do it again?....especially for a second tier role that already has 3 other comparable players?.... So....yeah....lets keep him if he's willing to play for fair value.....and if he thinks he's worth All pro money, then let him go get it elsewhere.... Overpay? Here's what I see as overpaid and feel free to interject where you see me getting unfair here: Andrew Hawkins 27 rec 276 yds 10.2 ypc 0 TD 10 1st downs - no wonder why he's already sucking up to Hue with that salary we're flushing Brian Hartline 46 rec 523 yds 11.4 ypc 2 TD 30 1st downs - for the free agent $ Cleveland threw at this phased out Dolphin Dwayne Bowe 5 rec 53 yds 10.6 ypc 0 TD 3 1st downs - for a guaranteed 9 million $ in 2015 Here's our 2015 comparison of Gabriel and Benjamin: Gabriel 28 rec 241 yds 8.6 ypc 0 TD 11 1st downs Benjamin 68 rec 966 yds 14.2 ypc 5 TD 39 1st downs So far, Benji has led our WR Corps for 2 consecutive years in TD receptions and yard per catch while Gabriel has sum of 1 TD. In 2015, he also led our WR Corps in receptions, yards and 1st downs. In 2015, Gabriel had 4 dropped passes - Benjamin dropped 3. Seems like we should be comparing Gabriel to Hawkins rather than somebody that can put points on the board or get us first downs or break tackles from grass blades. This time last year and prior to training camp, did many people even have Benji making the team? So if he ended up outperforming all of our WRs inclusive of overpaid FAs plus Gabriel to the extent of being our #1 WR as well as his value as a return man - is it Benjamin that's being ridiculous about what he's asking from the Browns or Hawkins, Hartline and Bowe? Let's make sure we understand what guys we're actually overpaying for best football in the rear view mirror up against the one starting to play his/our best football in the WR Corps. So, in all the worry about Benjamin only being a #2 WR or slot receiver at best, we've made sure we lost sight that not only is he highly regarded in this league as a return guy but he finished 2015 as the #1 WR for the Cleveland Browns while making way less money than Hawkins, Hartline and Bowe. I have no problem saying he deserves to earn more money from THIS franchise than any one of free agent WRs here wasting cap space far beyond their ability on a team that needs to draft better for the sake of program continuity. Sounds like we're about to part with 3 draftees that played some of their very best football for this franchise in 2015: Mack, Schwartz and Benji. Just out of curiosity, is Hartline a #1 WR? Is Bowe a #1 WR? Is Hawkins a #1 WR? Those are the guys you should be asking that question about when we're on the verge losing 3 currently productive draftees we should be retaining. More specifically, the overpaid FA WRs are the stinky shit clogging this toilet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 Overpay? Here's what I see as overpaid and feel free to interject where you see me getting unfair here: I dont think you're being unfair, I just think you're missing the point>>>>...."that is, no one is saying to get rid of him".....<<<< thats what you're missing, yet keep argue as if we are saying to cut him.... we are saying dont OVERPAY him and none of us know what he's asking for.....and, by you listing a bunch of overpaid receivers, it reinforces my statement that we have a history of overpaying people, then eating dirt for the ensuing years....so, like I said above...should we just keep doing that???? His history is 3 bad years and one decent year.....and his best year still has him as a middle of the pack type of player.....I think we are getting so used to bad players, that average talent starts to look too good..... This time last year and prior to training camp, did you even have Benji making the team? No, I didnt....which reinforces what Ive been saying....his history suggests that he's not been good and, after 3 years on the roster, a lot of us had him getting cut.....so, one decent year is just that.....Im not gonna get into a huge stats debate, but will say they can be sliced a lot of ways and his stats arent that good....even in his "great" year, which wasn't really that great....he was 35th? in the league?......yeah, he led the team in TD's 2014(with 3...wow)....and only had one TD in the last 13 weeks this past season.....(in fact, deduct the first 2 games from last season and see what his numbers were.....fairly below average, actually)....so, in reality, he had 2 great games to start, then pretty much fell off the wagon... Sounds like we're about to part with 3 draftees that played some of their very best football for this franchise in 2015: Mack, Schwartz and Benji. . More specifically, the overpaid FA WRs are the stinky shit clogging this toilet. Im all in on Mack and Schwartz....100%.....why?....because they have a 4 year history of quality play beyond just one season.....So, if you want us to pay Benji Pro-Bowl type money, then what should we pay those 2..... or any other player we tap that actually IS a Pro-bowler?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 Overpay? Here's what I see as overpaid and feel free to interject where you see me getting unfair here: I dont think you're being unfair, I just think you're missing the point>>>>...."that is, no one is saying to get rid of him".....<<<< thats what you're missing, yet keep argue as if we are saying to cut him.... we are saying dont OVERPAY him and none of us know what he's asking for.....and, by you listing a bunch of overpaid receivers, it reinforces my statement that we have a history of overpaying people, then eating dirt for the ensuing years....so, like I said above...should we just keep doing that???? His history is 3 bad years and one decent year.....and his best year still has him as a middle of the pack type of player.....I think we are getting so used to bad players, that average talent starts to look too good..... This time last year and prior to training camp, did you even have Benji making the team? No, I didnt....which reinforces what Ive been saying....his history suggests that he's not been good and, after 3 years on the roster, a lot of us had him getting cut.....so, one decent year is just that.....Im not gonna get into a huge stats debate, but will say they can be sliced a lot of ways and his stats arent that good....even in his "great" year, which wasn't really that great....he was 35th? in the league?......yeah, he led the team in TD's 2014(with 3...wow)....and only had one TD in the last 13 weeks this past season.....(in fact, deduct the first 2 games from last season and see what his numbers were.....fairly below average, actually)....so, in reality, he had 2 great games to start, then pretty much fell off the wagon... Sounds like we're about to part with 3 draftees that played some of their very best football for this franchise in 2015: Mack, Schwartz and Benji. . More specifically, the overpaid FA WRs are the stinky shit clogging this toilet. Im all in on Mack and Schwartz....100%.....why?....because they have a 4 year history of quality play beyond just one season.....So, if you want us to pay Benji Pro-Bowl type money, then what should we pay those 2..... or any other player we tap that actually IS a Pro-bowler?.... So now he's asking for Pro Bowl money? Source please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 So now he's asking for Pro Bowl money? Source please? Hello???....do you not read any of the words anyone else writes? I said ....1) no one knows what he's asking.......2) we should sign him, but not pay Pro Bowl money...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 I said this..... So....yeah....lets keep him if he's willing to play for fair value.....and if he thinks he's worth All pro money, then let him go get it elsewhere.... Then I said this..... we are saying dont OVERPAY him and none of us know what he's asking for..... ....So, if you want us to pay Benji Pro-Bowl type money, then what should we pay those 2..... or any other player we tap that actually IS a Pro-bowler?.... So....again.....Im assuming YOU want to pay him pro bowl money, because you keep disputing our comments which say KEEP HIM, but DONT OVERPAY.....(I used BIG letters this time, so you dont miss the point) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 Hello???....do you not read any of the words anyone else writes? I said ....1) no one knows what he's asking.......2) we should sign him, but not pay Pro Bowl money...... Did I not use cut and paste of the spins out of context to Pro Bowl $? Look who's talking - do you read? The flow of discussion brought you from a need to say I find it hard to believe the Browns will plan to use Benji as their #1 WR to a need to clarify we should sign Benjamin but not give him Pro Bowl money? Sounds like someone needs to take his own advice about reading what has actually been written. I've said it more than once: if we are this close to signing him let's remove the last minute nitpick and get it done. I've never said let's get ridiculous and empty the cap on him so you didn't need bring up sensationalize it to Pro Bowl $ to make your point seem stronger than it has been. I can't help it if you only saw a Taylor Gabriel equivalent to Benjamin I captured in the cut and paste. And let's not slap a tuxedo on a sweaty tank top with pretending Schwartz has given us 4 flawless years of football without growing pains or consistency concerns. He started to rally in 2014 when he returned to a zone blocking scheme similar to the one he played in at Cal before giving us the best football of his career in 2015. Not all that much different to the rise of Benjamin except there's been times early on Benjamin looked like he could have been a Pro Bowl return man while he was a work in progress at WR. In 2015, he was pretty good at both and performed better than any other WR on the roster. It's not his fault we've committed absurd money to guys like Hartline, Hawkins and Bowe. Back to where I was about a team concerned with program continuity through the draft - we can lose all 3 draftees coming off/into their best football: Mack, Schwartz and Benjamin. Like all draft picks/investments you nourish and feed - the time they're ready to give you a return on your patience invested is when they're ready to play their best football. If we let these guys go - we've trained them up for somebody else to tap their best football while the guys people should be asking if they're worth what we're paying them are: Hartline, Bowe and Hawkins. You don't have to remind me 1 more time who inventoried popular opinion in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 Did I not use cut and paste of the spins out of context to Pro Bowl $? Look who's talking - do you read? The flow of discussion brought you to a need to clarify we should sign Benjamin but not give him Pro Bowl money? Sounds like someone needs to take his own advice about reading what has actually been written. I've said it more than once: if we are this close to signing him let's remove the last minute nitpick and get it done. I've never said let's get ridiculous and empty the cap on him so you didn't need bring up sensationalize it to Pro Bowl $ to make your point seem stronger than it has been. I can't help it if you only saw a Taylor Gabriel equivalent to Benjamin I captured in the cut and paste. I guess I just dont understand what you're saying then.....when we repeatedly say "sign him"....but "dont overpay".....then you respond with long diatribes arguing the point... So....I can only assume you want to over pay....otherwise, why keep debating it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 I guess I just dont understand what you're saying then.....when we repeatedly say "sign him"....but "dont overpay".....then you respond with long diatribes arguing the point... So....I can only assume you want to over pay....otherwise, why keep debating it? How about - I'd like us to re-sign him too Flugel unless you've noticed me saying - hey, let's drain our cap on him. Did I? Let's pay him Pro Bowl $. Did I? Let's pay him what Pittsburgh pays Antonio Brown or what Cincy pays AJ Green or Atlanta pays Julio Jones or Dallas is paying Dez Bryant. Did I? And what was wrong with me pointing out what we're wasting on free agent WRs with only part time, limited or diminished skills when Benjamin offers us a role as a dangerous return man plus where he elevated his game to as a WR in spite of all the changes in QBs, OCs, playbooks throughout his brief tenure here? Who really knows what he can be in a full time role if we put something decent on the other side of formation, which is why I've refrained from racing to a conclusion of whether he's just a slot or # 2 WR at best. The results in 2015 here without anything to brag about on the other side of formation says he was our #1 WR overall, which assures me he could be a really good #2 WR here if we did have a reliable #1. You know my frustration with this WR Corps. You were lecturing me on things that didn't require it if you read where I was coming from since I joined the flow of discussion. I always give you way more respect than that so yeah I'm a little disappointed with your need to grandstand me. You're better than that and you know it. We've never struggled with the golden rule my man so why start now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 How about - I'd like us to re-sign him too Um...that IS what I said.....I never responded to you or lectured you on anything until you quoted my comment to Hoorta and then started in, as if you had issues with what I said........simple....just look at the top of the page to refresh your memory I said....resign him....and dont over pay......then YOU quoted ME and started in...... So, while you think I have issues with your statements, look back and see who quoted who and who debated the others comments.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 And what was wrong with me pointing out what we're wasting on free agent WRs Who really knows what he can be in a full time role if we put something decent on the other side of formation, which is why I've refrained from racing to a conclusion of whether he's just a slot or # 2 WR at best. The results in 2015 here without anything to brag about on the other side of formation says he was our #1 WR overall, which assures me he could be a really good #2 WR here if we did have a reliable #1. You know my frustration with this WR Corps. You were lecturing me on things that didn't require it if you read where I was coming from since I joined the flow of discussion. I always give you way more respect than that so yeah I'm a little disappointed with your need to grandstand me. You're better than that and you know it. We've never struggled with the golden rule my man so why start now? No problem with you mentioning the overpaid receivers.....its EXACTLY what I said the post before, yet you apparently didnt see that....I only said lets not repeat that same mistake.....we can both agree the team has blown it by overpaying, correct??? And grandstanding you?....please.....nor am I lecturing you.....again, Im just responding to your responses to MY opinion, which apparently Im not permitted to have?....until you quoted me and started in(grand standing me? perhaps?) we were not even in a discussion until you took issue with my comment to hoorta.........so, in reality, all YOU had to say was I agree we shouldnt overpay....which was my one and only point all along Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 No problem with you mentioning the overpaid receivers.....its EXACTLY what I said the post before, yet you apparently didnt see that....I only said lets not repeat that same mistake.....we can both agree the team has blown it by overpaying, correct??? And grandstanding you?....please.....nor am I lecturing you.....again, Im just responding to your responses to MY opinion, which apparently Im not permitted to have?....until you quoted me and started in(grand standing me? perhaps?) we were not even in a discussion until you took issue with my comment to hoorta.........so, in reality, all YOU had to say was I agree we shouldnt overpay....which was my one and only point all along Okay, I see what you're saying. My bad Mud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 Benjamin is a one dimensional player. Give me Will Fuller in the draft, and Marvin Jones in FA over keeping Benjamin and drafting Michael Thomas. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 When Mike's right, he's right... Did I just say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 Will Fuller would be great, except I think he's gone in the first round. Although, if you like Marvin Jones... check out Michael Thomas.... of Southern Mississippi. Wasn't invited to the combine.... He could..be there in the third round. He's been compared to Jones. http://nfldraftprospects.sportsblog.com/posts/12362883/michael-thomas--southern-miss--scouting-report.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren15 Posted March 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 Falcons to meet Mack ...very interested in him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 Mary Kay just tweeted. . . #browns have expressed interest in #jaguars FA center Stefen Wisniewski, league source says. Mack poised to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 Mary Kay just tweeted. . . #browns have expressed interest in #jaguars FA center Stefen Wisniewski, league source says. Mack poised to leave. I am not of the opinion that that is not much of a downgrade, if at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 I am not of the opinion that that is much of a downgrade, if at all. I have no opinion on Wisniewski, but I would like to hear Tour's 2 pennies on this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 well, they have to have a plan "B".... no big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 well, they have to have a plan "B".... no big deal. I believe Erving was plan "B". We're now on plan "C" or possibly beyond that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Make-Believe Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 I am not of the opinion that that is much of a downgrade, if at all. Bingo. I don't have a problem with that trade-off in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 Wisiewski is a great option.....plus he plays guard too....they shoulda signed him LAST year, instead of drafting Irving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 Wisiewski is a great option.....plus he plays guard too....they shoulda signed him LAST year, instead of drafting Irving I have no opinion on Wisniewski, but I would like to hear Tour's OR Mud's 2 pennies on this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 Tour is much better suited to give you technical particulars.....I can tell you he was a 2nd round pick by the Raiders, when HUE was their coach.....his dad and uncle were both NFL players, so he has good genes.....was an academic all american 3 years in school, so he's smart.....has been a starter every year in the league....1 as a guard and 4 as a center.....and, though not as good as Mack, is a strong run blocker and more than "good enough" to step right in and get er done....(and for a lot less than 10m)(and probably wants to be here more than Mack)(just a hunch) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 I believe Erving was plan "B". "B is for back-up, that's good enough for me. B is for back-up, that's good enough for me." Sesame Street flash back... Tour is much better suited to give you technical particulars.....I can tell you he was a 2nd round pick by the Raiders, when HUE was their coach.....his dad and uncle were both NFL players, so he has good genes.....was an academic all american 3 years in school, so he's smart.....has been a starter every year in the league....1 as a guard and 4 as a center.....and, though not as good as Mack, is a strong run blocker and more than "good enough" to step right in and get er done....(and for a lot less than 10m)(and probably wants to be here more than Mack)(just a hunch) Agree... Stephen is not early-2014 Mack grade and ZBS would not be his forte, but in a Power game compared to 2015 Mack, then the loss is minimized. PassPro should be adequate as well. Line calls??? Dunno, but flanked by 3rd year Bito and Greco, I would not expect them to be an issue. Now need to retain Mitchell, and then we can add Dahl (or some late Day 2/Day new blood) and sleep well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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