Republican Convention

[OldBrownsFan]

Trump has criticized Bush W pretty harshly, a move that had everybody like "omg wut you can't do that"

 

Trump's Republican party is a new party, he had the crowd cheering at LGBTQ support and against trade deals the party supports

 

Trump also mocked a war hero John McCain saying he was not a war hero because Trump likes those who were not captured. That is about as disgraceful as it comes from someone like Trump who got questionable deferments from having to serve in the military in Viet Nam and was living a life of luxury and ease in this country while McCain spent 5 years as a POW.

 

To be fair to Trump I understand the anger when he made the comment. McCain had just called the followers of Trump a bunch of crazies. it was still the wrong thing to say. I don't much care for the politics of McCain but he has my respect and honor as a war hero for his sacrifice to our country.

[VaporTrail]

 

The world has become a more dangerous place under Obama's weak leadership. Leading from behind is not leading at all. No matter what you thought of the Iraq war the fact is we had finally secured that country at a great cost. Obama pulls all the troops out against the advice of the military and the whole region falls apart. He brushed off ISIS calling them the JV team. He negotiated a horrible nuclear deal with Iran guaranteeing they will have nuclear weapons in a short period of time. We took out Khadaffi and left the country in shambles and a terrorist haven. We supported the Muslin brotherhood in Egypt which no thanks to us the military there was able to overthrow....I could go on and on with this......

 

I don't think you can argue that the country was ever really secure once Saddam was deposed. Was our military supposed to be the Iraqi police force indefinitely? That's not a good answer, either. The only winning move was not to play. Bush played and everything we did after that was a losing endeavor.

[OldBrownsFan]

 

I don't think you can argue that the country was ever really secure once Saddam was deposed. Was our military supposed to be the Iraqi police force indefinitely? That's not a good answer, either. The only winning move was not to play. Bush played and everything we did after that was a losing endeavor.

 

I agree the best answer was not to go to war in the first place. Hindsight is 20/20 but after the surge we had secured the country. Now we needed to leave a residual force to protect what we had won at a great cost. It all fell apart after all the troops were pulled out. If we had kept a residual force there it would have stabilized the country. How long to keep the troops there? As long as it takes. We spent trillions of dollars, lost many lives and sacrifice...way too much to just walk away...and after we walked away it collapsed just like Bush said it would if we left too soon.

[VaporTrail]

 

I agree the best answer was not to go to war in the first place. Hindsight is 20/20 but after the surge we had secured the country. Now we needed to leave a residual force to protect what we had won at a great cost. It all fell apart after all the troops were pulled out. If we had kept a residual force there it would have stabilized the country. How long to keep the troops there? As long as it takes. We spent trillions of dollars, lost many lives and sacrifice...way too much to just walk away...and after we walked away it collapsed just like Bush said it would if we left too soon.

 

I'd argue that it was a sunk cost, regardless.

[OldBrownsFan]

 

I'd argue that it was a sunk cost, regardless.

 

And you might be right.

 

In a parable in the bible Jesus used the illustration of counting the costs before going to war. That is a good lesson for us. The costs in this case is like what Powell said who was against us going to war in Iraq saying if we broke it we bought it...and he was right after toppling Hussein we now had the task of rebuilding the country and the trillions of dollars that would cost.

 

Would we just be throwing good money out for bad trying to protect our investment in Iraq? Nobody knows but we do know what happened when we pulled our troops out to soon...the country collapsed, Iran moved in to fill the vacuum and groups like ISIS started taking control.

[bbedward]

I like Trump's current roast of Ted Cruz

[calfoxwc]

We had to go into Iraq. The big mistake was, trying to nation build.

 

After our amazing victory, after the dirtbag was tracked down, we should have

left them to restructure a gov that wouldn't let another dictator take his place.

[OldBrownsFan]

We had to go into Iraq. The big mistake was, trying to nation build.

 

After our amazing victory, after the dirtbag was tracked down, we should have

left them to restructure a gov that wouldn't let another dictator take his place.

 

I don't know Cal...look at Libya when we took out Khadaffi and then just walked away and now it is a failed state harboring terrorists and in chaos. Hindsight 20/20 I would have rather we had a policy of trying to contain Hussein instead of war to take him out.

[Clevfan4life]

We never secured iraq. We never could secure it. What is so hard to understand? These are multi country organizations that just move to places where our military isnt....and move rigjt in when we leave. We cant be in iraq for 100 years. To his credit trump "i think" understands that everytime we do an iraq type war we're obligated to be there for decade after decade. And ithink he wants no part of anything like that intje future

[Clevfan4life]

 

I don't know Cal...look at Libya when we took out Khadaffi and then just walked away and now it is a failed state harboring terrorists and in chaos. Hindsight 20/20 I would have rather we had a policy of trying to contain Hussein instead of war to take him out.

Is isis as big there as in iraq and syria? The difference there is we left and picked no winners, which means not flooding the area with american arms. Thats the way to do it, or you have asswipes like isis running around in american tanks

[OldBrownsFan]

I can't remember the details of this

 

We never secured iraq. We never could secure it. What is so hard to understand? These are multi country organizations that just move to places where our military isnt....and move rigjt in when we leave. We cant be in iraq for 100 years. To his credit trump "i think" understands that everytime we do an iraq type war we're obligated to be there for decade after decade. And ithink he wants no part of anything like that intje future

 

Tell Joe Biden a few years ago we didn't secure Iraq when he said Iraq was Obama's "greatest success"..

 

How long have we been in South Korea? You do what is necessary after a war to secure what you have won.

 

I don't think Trump is a mastermind of world affairs with some of his comments such as being fine with South Korea and Japan and Saudi Arabia going nuclear when our goal for decades has been to keep this from happening.

[OldBrownsFan]

Is isis as big there as in iraq and syria? The difference there is we left and picked no winners, which means not flooding the area with american arms. Thats the way to do it, or you have asswipes like isis running around in american tanks

 

If you are taking that argument Cleve than the correct answer is to have left Khadaffi in place.

[bbedward]

The only way to keep Iraq secure would have been to keep a strong US military presence for however many dozens of years. Many saw that in the forecast at the time.

 

We installed a new government, we extensively trained Iraqi police and military forces. Then as we learned - Sunnis won't fight Sunni insurgents, they'd rather drop their weapons or join them. Shia don't want to serve next to or under Sunnis. Sunnis don't want to live under a Shia government.

 

It'd odd we constantly favor repeating the process over and over again.

[Clevfan4life]

 

If you are taking that argument Cleve than the correct answer is to have left Khadaffi in place.

 

Thats probably true tbh. Everytime we destabilize one of these countries look what steps? This is why i back russiia 100% in syria. Assad was dealing with the scum of the known universe so you have to forgive him some of his actions. These "rebels" were putting their beheading videos on the internet years before isis was a thing. I dont care what assad does against people like this.

[OldBrownsFan]

The only way to keep Iraq secure would have been to keep a strong US military presence for however many dozens of years. Many saw that in the forecast at the time.

 

We installed a new government, we extensively trained Iraqi police and military forces. Then as we learned - Sunnis won't fight Sunni insurgents, they'd rather drop their weapons or join them. Shia don't want to serve next to or under Sunnis. Sunnis don't want to live under a Shia government.

 

It'd odd we constantly favor repeating the process over and over again.

 

When it comes to Muslim countries I am all for staying out as much as possible. It seems to me no matter what we do even if we are trying to help them we will always be "the infidels".

[Clevfan4life]

 

It'd odd we constantly favor repeating the process over and over again.

 

Makes you wanna scream sometimes its so infuriating. Sorry but old white people just wont let go of the notion of dictating our values and norms to people in foreign countries.

[bbedward]

 

When it comes to Muslim countries I am all for staying out as much as possible. It seems to me no matter what we do even if we are trying to help them we will always be "the infidels".

It's not that we're the infidels - it's just that us and other countries fall under one banner - American, French, Spanish, German, Russian, Chinese

 

For them it's not Iraqi, Saudi, or Iranian. It's Sunni/shia or one of the however many variants of those there are.

[OldBrownsFan]

Thats probably true tbh. Everytime we destabilize one of these countries look what steps? This is why i back russiia 100% in syria. Assad was dealing with the scum of the known universe so you have to forgive him some of his actions. These "rebels" were putting their beheading videos on the internet years before isis was a thing. I dont care what assad does against people like this.

 

Also Russia doesn't play as nicely as we do. We set up rules of engagement that hurt our own soldiers because of too much concern about collateral damage while I don't think Russia worries about that as much as we do.

 

I recently saw a report of our "brave rebels" we support in Syria beheading a 12 year old child ....the article also showed one of the rebels wearing mascara looking like a she man....we really need to be careful who we are supporting.

[calfoxwc]

the murderous saddam regime was more than dangerous to Iraqis...

 

they were a major terrorist group arms supplier. They got very rich with

the arms trade.

 

Giant warehouses full of weapons, more weapons than could ever have been used

in a one hundred year war.

 

Those weapons could have been bombed, if we had had the intel... but we didn't.

But they would have just started back up again. Most of the weapons were Chinese -

my friend had been a chinese radio broadcast interpreter/monitor.

 

He quit that when they narrowly missed getting shot down one day...was

based in Thailand offially. He was in Iraq - did research/charts etc, for

intelligence briefings. That's all he would ever tell me...

 

except that when I asked him if we should have gone in, he emphatically said

"YES". which surprised me, since he was always a chronic far left liberal wingnut.

He just enlisted to not get drafted into the army. He told me then, that if Americans

knew why, they would all emphatically agree.... except they will never know.

 

And I have never known, dammit.

[bbedward]

The rebels in Syria also shot a Russian pilot parachuting out of the sky not too long ago - a big no no as far as rules of engagement and Geneva convention stuff goes

[OldBrownsFan]

the murderous saddam regime was more than dangerous to Iraqis...

 

they were a major terrorist group arms supplier. They got very rich with

the arms trade.

 

Giant warehouses full of weapons, more weapons than could ever have been used

in a one hundred year war.

 

Those weapons could have been bombed, if we had had the intel... but we didn't.

But they would have just started back up again. Most of the weapons were Chinese -

my friend had been a chinese radio broadcast interpreter/monitor.

 

He quit that when they narrowly missed getting shot down one day...was

based in Thailand offially. He was in Iraq - did research/charts etc, for

intelligence briefings. That's all he would ever tell me...

 

except that when I asked him if we should have gone in, he emphatically said

"YES". which surprised me, since he was always a chronic far left liberal wingnut.

He just enlisted to not get drafted into the army. He told me then, that if Americans

knew why, they would all emphatically agree.... except they will never know.

 

And I have never known, dammit.

 

I think we should learn from Israel in fighting terrorism. How they do it. Usually instead of a huge military response against a terrorist attack they go under the radar, identify the terrorists involved who then start turning up dead. I have see them use this tactic a number of times.

 

If we were not going to take out the nuclear facilities in Iran why didn't we at least support Israel in taking them out instead we flatly told Israel if they flew over Iraq airspace with jets to bomb nuclear facilities in Iran we would shoot them out of the sky???? Oh yeah Kerry was wanting a nobel prize for the terrible nuclear agreement we signed with Iran.

 

Also the wall built in Israel on the west bank to help stop terrorist attacks has been very effective. Last report I read was a 90 percent decrease. Walls work.

[OldBrownsFan]

I like Trump's current roast of Ted Cruz

WATCH: Republican Nominee Donald Trump Trashes & Mocks GOP Senator Ted Cruz AGAIN Because Unity or Whatever

 

Keep dancing on the graves of your primary opponents, Donald. It's going to work out great for you against Hillary. You absolutely fit right in here in "the stupid party."

 

http://www.redstate.com/absentee/2016/07/22/republican-nominee-donald-trump-trashes-gop-senator-ted-cruz-unity-whatever-video/

[Clevfan4life]

None of the below is true. Not a shred of truth.

 

 

the murderous saddam regime was more than dangerous to Iraqis...

 

they were a major terrorist group arms supplier. They got very rich with

the arms trade.

 

Giant warehouses full of weapons, more weapons than could ever have been used

in a one hundred year war.

 

Those weapons could have been bombed, if we had had the intel... but we didn't.

But they would have just started back up again. Most of the weapons were Chinese -

my friend had been a chinese radio broadcast interpreter/monitor.

 

He quit that when they narrowly missed getting shot down one day...was

based in Thailand offially. He was in Iraq - did research/charts etc, for

intelligence briefings. That's all he would ever tell me...

 

except that when I asked him if we should have gone in, he emphatically said

"YES". which surprised me, since he was always a chronic far left liberal wingnut.

He just enlisted to not get drafted into the army. He told me then, that if Americans

knew why, they would all emphatically agree.... except they will never know.

 

And I have never known, dammit.

[OldBrownsFan]

Just bizarre. It is obvious Trump cannot stay on message. The primary is over we are in the general election now and he cannot stay focused on Hillary. If Trump does not get trounced in November I will be surprised but what do I know I thought Romney was going to win in 12.

 

WATCH. Unhinged Donald Trump Becomes Even More Unhinged On CSPAN (VIDEO)

I don't have a transcript but these are the highlights. Ted Cruz violated campaign finance laws. The National Enquirer is highly credible. No one has ever denied that Ted Cruz's father shot JFK. Ted Cruz's PAC attacked Melania Trump. Melania Trump didn't marry Donald for money because she made a lot of money lolling around naked. Ted Cruz changed his speech. Trump doesn't want Ted Cruz's endorsement and wouldn't accept it.

 

http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2016/07/22/watch.-unhinged-donald-trump-becomes-unhinged-cspan-video/

[The Cysko Kid]

 

I don't think you can argue that the country was ever really secure once Saddam was deposed. Was our military supposed to be the Iraqi police force indefinitely? That's not a good answer, either. The only winning move was not to play. Bush played and everything we did after that was a losing endeavor.

History shows time and again that when you conquer a territory you must occupy it for a long stretch of time.

[Dste Ace]

History shows time and again that when you conquer a territory you must occupy it for a long stretch of time.

 

At the end of Desert Storm in '91, when the chickenhawks were beating the drums to keep going into

Baghdad, Colin Powell gave George H.W. Bush the same advice he gave George W---"Mr. President,

if you break it, you buy it." And here we are.

[calfoxwc]

None of the below is true. Not a shred of truth. Cleveage

**********************************

and you have no idea whatsoever, just being an ignorant emotional

knee jerk.

 

Face it, Cleve, you are all completely soaked in Egypt again.

 

 

Commentary

Weapons for the Taking in Iraq

October 29, 2004|Jon Lee Anderson | Jon Lee Anderson, a staff writer for the New Yorker magazine, is the author of "The Fall of Baghdad," just published by Penguin Press.

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It now seems highly likely that a group of well-organized looters made off with the missing cache of 380 tons of powerful explosives at Iraq's Al Qaqaa military site after it was visited by invading U.S. troops in early April 2003.

 

For myself and other reporters who were on the ground in Baghdad during those days, this oversight does not seem surprising. Coinciding with the arrival of the Americans, Baghdad succumbed to an orgy of looting and, eventually, to wholesale sabotage, all of which took place under the tolerant and overwhelmed gaze of the newly arrived U.S. soldiers. That U.S. troops could have visited Al Qaqaa, inspected the explosives and then moved on without securing them -- evidently unaware of the high-level importance of the site -- seems completely in keeping with the extraordinary lack of coordination between senior commanders and their troops in the field that we witnessed on a daily basis.

 

On April 10, 2003, for instance, I spoke with a senior Marine commander about the looting of Baghdad's hospitals. He was unaware of the problem and clearly was under no orders to stop it from happening but seemed worried by the news.

 

He asked me to show him where the hospitals were on a map. He then dispatched a platoon to protect the last functioning hospital in the city center.

 

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2004/oct/29/opinion/oe-anderson29

 

"That same day, a friend of mine came across an armory being looted by a group

of men and boys. Several U.S. soldiers were manning a roadblock less than 100

yards away, yet were unaware of what was taking place. When he warned them, they

intervened and managed to stop the looting, but by then hundreds of weapons, including

shoulder-mounted rocket launchers, had been stolen.

 

Last July in Baghdad, for instance, I met an arms dealer who boasted of having

access to several underground warehouses full of war materiel that the Americans

have never known about. In front of me, he took orders over the phone for various

types of weaponry and then called the orders in to the warehouses."

 

now, you look are ignorant as you are. and my friend was quite real, haven't talked

to him in a long time. Seems I found out about the warehouses long before the media

ever did.

 

Now, look what you've done - make yourself look like an ass.

[OldBrownsFan]

The numbers of viewers who tuned in for Trump's acceptance speech may not mean anything but I thought it interesting.

 

RNC '16 (final night): 29.9m
DNC '12 (f. night): 35.7m
RNC '12 (f. night): 30.3m
DNC '08 (f. night): 38.4m
RNC '08 (f. night): 38.9m

 

An average of 29.9 million people watched Donald trump accept GOP nomination during 10 PM hour last night on broadcast, Given these numbers, the final night of the GOP convention received the lowest viewership in at least 12 years. Donald Trump received 400k less viewers than Mitt Romney did for his acceptance speech

[bbedward]

The numbers of viewers who tuned in for Trump's acceptance speech may not mean anything but I thought it interesting.

 

RNC '16 (final night): 29.9m

DNC '12 (f. night): 35.7m

RNC '12 (f. night): 30.3m

DNC '08 (f. night): 38.4m

RNC '08 (f. night): 38.9m

 

An average of 29.9 million people watched Donald trump accept GOP nomination during 10 PM hour last night on broadcast, Given these numbers, the final night of the GOP convention received the lowest viewership in at least 12 years. Donald Trump received 400k less viewers than Mitt Romney did for his acceptance speech

I find it hard to believe, but I wonder if those numbers include online streaming which a fuckton of people do now.

 

Even people who hate Trump want to watch him

[The Cysko Kid]

 

At the end of Desert Storm in '91, when the chickenhawks were beating the drums to keep going into

Baghdad, Colin Powell gave George H.W. Bush the same advice he gave George W---"Mr. President,

if you break it, you buy it." And here we are.

And we should have kept it but our wise president decided that it was broken and threw it away. Now we have to deal with the new owners.