cdl15 Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Blake Bortles beat out Chad Henne. Teddy Twatwater beat out Matt Cassell Derek Carr beat out Matt Schaub You mean a first round pick couldn't beat out EITHER Brian Hoyer (Career backup with 3 wins) OR Josh McCown (Career backup coming off 1-10 season)? Zombo J. Winston and M. Mariotta. "GOOD" first round talent always gives u a glimmer of hope regardless of team situation. So we have to wait till next year to see if our 1st round talent from 2014 is anything more than a long term project? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 One of the reasons some fans here hate Bill Belichick is because he didn't tailor the offense to Bernie Kosar remaining skills. It's rare you will have three excellent quarterbacks with the exact same skill set. Just build a good team. If it turns out johnny is the weak link then you can plug in wtvr 6 foot 6 choirboy you want. I mean think about it, a tough defense and a rugged running game have nothing to do with Johnny's skill set. Or Josh or Austin or Hoyers, or anybody's. WSS hard to tailor an offense with a qb that moved like a constuction crane and no strength left to throw the ball. After bernie got crushed by derrick thomas, he was never the same...thomas just friggin crushed him like a bug and that was the end of poor ole bernie...belichik made some mistakes that he learned from, like the metcalf up the middle syndrome, but he was 100 percent correct in benching bernie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Blake Bortles beat out Chad Henne. Teddy Twatwater beat out Matt Cassell Derek Carr beat out Matt Schaub You mean a first round pick couldn't beat out EITHER Brian Hoyer (Career backup with 3 wins) OR Josh McCown (Career backup coming off 1-10 season)? Zombo None of them were put in a "QB competition". They were handed the reigns, and the coaches never flip flopped, regardless of how poorly they started. You know, because their coaches aren't fucking morons. It must be nice to take a guy and actually let him play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 In a rare turn of events i agree with tcpo on her last point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 The timing of this is more fishy than an $2 hookers vagina who's working a double shift at a used car sales convention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 This I can only imagine is the result of his talk with pettine, and pettine smacking him upside the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 JM took a ass whippin Sunday. imo video Pet cleared up at his presser. You don't fool concussions in NFL anymore. If we know Pet when he talked to JM about video JM was not the same player Pet knows. Believe when players return to practice Wednesday they must be cleared by medical trainer first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustaJagsFan Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Blake Bortles beat out Chad Henne. Teddy Twatwater beat out Matt Cassell Derek Carr beat out Matt Schaub You mean a first round pick couldn't beat out EITHER Brian Hoyer (Career backup with 3 wins) OR Josh McCown (Career backup coming off 1-10 season)? Zombo (Emphasis added) None of them were put in a "QB competition". They were handed the reigns, and the coaches never flip flopped, regardless of how poorly they started. You know, because their coaches aren't fucking morons. It must be nice to take a guy and actually let him play. (Emphasis added) That's not how it happened with Bortles. The original plan was to have him sit his entire rookie year. It was determined he had so many mechanical flaws he wasn't ready to start from jump, even though he showed signs of being special in preseason his rookie year. Chad Henne started the first three games, and after two and a half projectile vomit inducing performances by Henne, they put Bortles in. No, there was no "competition," but Bortles wasn't simply handed the job from the beginning, either. Bradley and (Jaguars GM) Dave Caldwell have both said though the plan was to have him sit, the experience Bortles gained his first year was invaluable. Furthermore, in terms of preparation, Bortles exceeded the coaches expectations. He had command of the playbook. After his rookie season, he went to the same mechanics guru that Drew Brees uses and fixed the bulk of his mechanical issues. He initiated workouts with his receivers, also in California. Similar glowing reports of strong work ethic have been linked to Bridgewater, Winston, Mariota, and Luck. I do not recall similar reports coming out about Carr, but given his brother played in the league, it would not be surprising if the young Raiders' QB had the requisite work ethic too. Now I readily admit I am not as informed of Browns happenings as you guys are, and I will accept correction on this point, but it is my understanding there were issues with Manziel's preparation, to the point that teammates supposedly have called him out. Specifically, he did not know the playbook or the progressions his rookie year, and time that would have been spent on refining his mechanics, etc. after his rookie year was spent in rehab. I do not know of any workouts organized by Manziel with his receivers either. From the outside looking in, it seems partying has been his priority, which is why Pettine found it necessary to have the conference with him and ultimately demoting him to 3rd string immediately after naming him starter. Fortunately for Jaguars fans, at this, point, there have been no such meetings about Bortles, and hopefully it never will be. I haven't heard about similar meetings with any of Manziel's contemporaries. Just Manziel. Again, if there are details/facts I am missing, please enlighten me. I will say this in fairness to Manziel. The suspension of the WR, the loss of TE Jordan Cameron, and the seeming failure to invest adequately in the skill positions would have a negative effect on any young QB. If you look at the great QBs over the decades, you will invariably see those teams invest heavily in skill positions after acquiring the franchise signal caller. Pittsburgh followed the Bradshaw drafting with Franco Harris and Lynn Swann in the first rounds. Aikman was followed in subsequent drafts by Emmitt Smith, Alvin Harper, Jimmy Smith, and Kevin Williams. Peyton Manning was drafted in the Colts by 1998. The Colts provided him with Edgerrin James, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark. The Steelers followed the Roethlisberger draft with Heath Miller, Santonio Holmes, and Rashad Mendenhall. Luck was given Dwayne Allen, Coby Fleener and TY Hilton in the same draft, and Donte Moncrief and Phillip Dorsett in later drafts. The Raiders gave Carr Amari Cooper the next year. I think if there is going to be any hope of Manziel developing into the QB Browns fans hope, you have to give him the tools around him to succeed. But he has to do his part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 The simple point being made is small running QBs have prove susceptible to injury. Which is just another check in the "cut ties" column for Johnny Manziel. The simpler point is that quarterbacks are going to get hurt. (the simplest point is that the concussion protocol has fucked up the game) WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Bridgewater and Carr weren't just handed the job either, they earned it. Manziel himself admits he blew the first year and was unprepared, yet his fanboys thinks he should have been handed the job anyway. Here's a timeline article that sums it up pretty unbiased and straight IMO http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2015/12/johnny-manziel-in-good-times-and-in-bad-wfny-top-10-cleveland-sports-stories-no-3/ "Beginning with reports that came out right after the draft and continued throughout the 2014 season, a steady stream of embarrassing stories gave hints of why Browns coaches were reluctant to play Manziel, but when he finally did get his chance, it was a mostly disappointing performance. It was not simply that he made typical rookie mistakes on the field, which would have been entirely understandable, but rather that he hadn’t thoroughly prepared, he didn’t know the playbook." Bortles, as noted above, knew the playbook. As did Carr and Bridgewater. It's Johnny's fault he couldn't beat out retreads. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 I will say this in fairness to Manziel. The suspension of the WR, the loss of TE Jordan Cameron, and the seeming failure to invest adequately in the skill positions would have a negative effect on any young QB. If you look at the great QBs over the decades, you will invariably see those teams invest heavily in skill positions after acquiring the franchise signal caller. Pittsburgh followed the Bradshaw drafting with Franco Harris and Lynn Swann in the first rounds. Aikman was followed in subsequent drafts by Emmitt Smith, Alvin Harper, Jimmy Smith, and Kevin Williams. Peyton Manning was drafted in the Colts by 1998. The Colts provided him with Edgerrin James, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark. The Steelers followed the Roethlisberger draft with Heath Miller, Santonio Holmes, and Rashad Mendenhall. Luck was given Dwayne Allen, Coby Fleener and TY Hilton in the same draft, and Donte Moncrief and Phillip Dorsett in later drafts. The Raiders gave Carr Amari Cooper the next year. I think if there is going to be any hope of Manziel developing into the QB Browns fans hope, you have to give him the tools around him to succeed. But he has to do his part. I agree about skill position players, but in fairness, we never skipped a beat at TE. Cameron was replaced by Barnidge, who has played better, and has stayed healthier. And McCown and Hoyer had the same weapons as Johnny. In the 7 games where McCown took the majority of the snaps, the Browns averaged 21.8 points per game and 290.1 passing yards per game. In the 7 games where Manziel took the majority of the snaps, the Browns averaged 15.3 points per game and 195.5 passing yards per game. But, since the defense had its two best games of the year with Johnny under center, and held the lowly Titans to 14 and the lowly 49ers to 10 ... Johnny was better. Our third best defensive game was holding the Chiefs to 17, but our QB was 13-32 in that game. We gave up 24 or more points in all of McCowns starts ... but I'm sure that was his fault. Johnny "inspired" the defense. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 The simpler point is that quarterbacks are going to get hurt. (the simplest point is that the concussion protocol has fucked up the game) WSS Do we lead the league in time out for concussion protocol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 On the conspiracy side, anything is possible I guess......but it should be pointed out that concussion protocol isnt something that is managed by the teams or their medical staffs.....once a player has symptoms, it is turned over to an independent doctor to manage, so the teams cant cheat(basically)....meaning the NFL has taken the decision making process away from the players and the teams.... So.....really.....Pettine cant "create" a concussion in order to sit Johnny......(but, if he wanted to, he could create a sprain or strain).....and the only reason Johnny is in protocol is because HE came into work and reported he had symptoms(which automatically puts him in).....so, I think we can assume this isnt some fake thing created by the coaches to punish our boy....(though Johnny could create the situation, if he was so inclined).....(dont think either did, really) Interesting stats for 2015......Cleveland Browns lead the league in games missed due to concussion.....and are 4th in games missed due to injury..... So.....saying all teams have injuries is true.....but all teams dont lead the league.....as a comparison, we have missed 162 man games compared to Cinnci at 74, Denver at 80 or Carolina at 100 man games......(big difference) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvcanedy Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 The timing of this is more fishy than an $2 hookers vagina who's working a double shift at a used car sales convention Just ruined my breakfast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Tell you what, call me when the rest of the team blocks tackles and runs the ball. Even your boy Hoyer looked OK on the occasions they did that. At least once in awhile. Again with the argument shift? My boy, along with McC and Davis, look like NFL QBs. It's easy to see... not slight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious Styles Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Another "get the season over" like last season. The pressure is on and Manziel wants NOOOO part of a steeler team in desperation mode. He'd rather sit this one out. " yeah doc....... i still feel a little dizzy some times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 On the conspiracy side, anything is possible I guess......but it should be pointed out that concussion protocol isnt something that is managed by the teams or their medical staffs.....once a player has symptoms, it is turned over to an independent doctor to manage, so the teams cant cheat(basically)....meaning the NFL has taken the decision making process away from the players and the teams.... So.....really.....Pettine cant "create" a concussion in order to sit Johnny......(but, if he wanted to, he could create a sprain or strain).....and the only reason Johnny is in protocol is because HE came into work and reported he had symptoms(which automatically puts him in).....so, I think we can assume this isnt some fake thing created by the coaches to punish our boy....(though Johnny could create the situation, if he was so inclined).....(dont think either did, really) Interesting stats for 2015......Cleveland Browns lead the league in games missed due to concussion.....and are 4th in games missed due to injury..... So.....saying all teams have injuries is true.....but all teams dont lead the league.....as a comparison, we have missed 162 man games compared to Cinnci at 74, Denver at 80 or Carolina at 100 man games......(big difference) I can't imagine it would be easier to fake a sprain than a concussion. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Tell you what, call me when the rest of the team blocks tackles and runs the ball. Pretty sure all those things happened last week..... Strong running game?.....check........Big Defensive stops?......check......No dropped passes?.......check.....Solid O line play?.....check........Solid QB play?.......nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 You dont have to fake it cause you dont have to prove it....... Just say he's got an injury and thats all it takes.....who's gonna check? But say you have a concussion?.....THEN the league and other doctors get involved..... Its really that simple.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Doesn't sound simple at all and I guess I don't understand your point. Seems to me the team Dr could find evidence of a sprain. Seems like the same Dr could ask a few questions or even pull out a flashlight and check the eyes. I guess if anybody didn't want a player to play you can tell the team Dr you were a little worried since his speech seemed a little slurred. Could you check that out, doc? That seems easier to me than the coach telling the doctor this guy's got a pulled muscle and the player saying I feel fine. But most importantly, what are we arguing about? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 I remember very specifically when I believe the concussion happened. A defender hit Manziel from the side and their helmets banged together very hard. On the replay, I remember thinking how lucky Manziel was that he wasn't concussed. I'm willing to bet that's when it occurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Doesn't sound simple at all and I guess I don't understand your point. Seems to me the team Dr could find evidence of a sprain. Seems like the same Dr could ask a few questions or even pull out a flashlight and check the eyes. I guess if anybody didn't want a player to play you can tell the team Dr you were a little worried since his speech seemed a little slurred. Could you check that out, doc? That seems easier to me than the coach telling the doctor this guy's got a pulled muscle and the player saying I feel fine. But most importantly, what are we arguing about? WSS I didnt know we were arguing...... I just posted the protocol, cause people were implying there might be a conspiracy here and protocol would pretty much eliminate that possibility.... And then you questioned it.....so, Id ask YOU what your argument is... Look....team doctors work for the team, so you can probably get them to do or say whatever.....and they aren;t gonna check a player unless they are asked to.... But.....with concussions....team doctors have no say and are NOT involved....thats my point....you cant FAKE a concussion, unless it's the player trying to fool the league doctors..... But you DEFINITELY can fake sprains and strains....just say your hamstring is tight or hurts....and KABLAMMO!!!,...instant injury that no one is gonna check.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Again with the argument shift? My boy, along with McC and Davis, look like NFL QBs. It's easy to see... not slight. No argument shift whatsoever.A hot dog quarterback can't make a shitty team a winner. But a great team can make a shitty quarterback a star. And speaking of who looks like what does Mike Pettine look like an NFL head coach to you? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 For the record I'd say he [coach] does not but I'd be willing to give him another year to see if continuity and experience can improve upon that. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Pretty sure all those things happened last week..... Strong running game?.....check........Big Defensive stops?......check......No dropped passes?.......check.....Solid O line play?.....check........Solid QB play?.......nope And yes he had a bad game. No doubt. Wasn't throwing the ball well. Did add 100 yards to the rushing game.I'm not making excuses for a bad performance, just saying that people have bad performances. You learn by playing. On the other hand threw for a shitload of yards against the Pittsburgh squealers. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohican Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 fucking trent dilfer won a superbowl with the proper support, so anything is possible that is if we get the support we need... in spite of Dilfer's shortcomings he could see above the line and had an NFL caliber arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Ag, That is strictly a comparative statement to the 2014 JM you want Mud revise as they are "the initial things he brought last year". You can't have it both ways. Check. Just a little misread on my part then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 On the conspiracy side, anything is possible I guess......but it should be pointed out that concussion protocol isnt something that is managed by the teams or their medical staffs.....once a player has symptoms, it is turned over to an independent doctor to manage, so the teams cant cheat(basically)....meaning the NFL has taken the decision making process away from the players and the teams.... So.....really.....Pettine cant "create" a concussion in order to sit Johnny......(but, if he wanted to, he could create a sprain or strain).....and the only reason Johnny is in protocol is because HE came into work and reported he had symptoms(which automatically puts him in).....so, I think we can assume this isnt some fake thing created by the coaches to punish our boy....(though Johnny could create the situation, if he was so inclined).....(dont think either did, really) Interesting stats for 2015......Cleveland Browns lead the league in games missed due to concussion.....and are 4th in games missed due to injury..... So.....saying all teams have injuries is true.....but all teams dont lead the league.....as a comparison, we have missed 162 man games compared to Cinnci at 74, Denver at 80 or Carolina at 100 man games......(big difference) My question is this: How can guys come in on Wednesday and say they have a concussion? I mean, a blow to the head is a blow to the head....why would it take so long to diagnose? And....have the plays where these concussions occurred been identified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 My question is this: 1) How can guys come in on Wednesday and say they have a concussion? 2) I mean, a blow to the head is a blow to the head....why would it take so long to diagnose? 3) And....have the plays where these concussions occurred been identified? 1) I would guess that they just walk in and report that their head hurts or they are having symptoms.... 2) During a game, if a player receives a mjor blow to the head, there are league spotters who have the authority to conduct a sideline check....this happens often.....but not always........Sometimes a player feels fine and no one notices the hit, so it goes undiagnosed, unless the player says something..... 3) I have no clue...but doubt that its a critical thing to know....if he has a concussion, he has a concussion.....and thats all that really matters, right?>... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 1) I would guess that they just walk in and report that their head hurts or they are having symptoms.... 2) During a game, if a player receives a mjor blow to the head, there are league spotters who have the authority to conduct a sideline check....this happens often.....but not always........Sometimes a player feels fine and no one notices the hit, so it goes undiagnosed, unless the player says something..... 3) I have no clue...but doubt that its a critical thing to know....if he has a concussion, he has a concussion.....and thats all that really matters, right?>... Well, on the last point, it just seems that Johnny did fine....sort of...in the latter part of the game. Nothing affected him there. And what is the issue about saying right now that he is out for Sunday. Wouldn't it be better to wait and see. There are still 3 days between now and then. How cant they tell right now that he wouldn't be capable of playing Sunday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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