Mudfly Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 And what is the issue about saying right now that he is out for Sunday..........Wouldn't it be better to wait and see. ........... How cant they tell right now that he wouldn't be capable of playing Sunday? I think it just boils down to practicing for the game.....and if Johnny cant practice, then he wont be prepared...... Maybe, if he recovers today or something, they could get him some reps....otherwise im guessing they'd rather just go with the guy who practiced all week..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 My question is this: How can guys come in on Wednesday and say they have a concussion? I mean, a blow to the head is a blow to the head....why would it take so long to diagnose? And....have the plays where these concussions occurred been identified? Adrenalin can play a role the day of the injury. I've seen NFL players pop up after a big hit and shake their head and continue to play. The "head shake" should be an unmissable red flag, yet it does not seem to be. As for the diagnosis "delay"... Some symptoms can be delayed for days. My money here is on light sensitivity showing up. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/concussion/basics/symptoms/con-20019272 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 and another important point...or change.....is that players are now educated on concussions, the symptoms and the consequences.... So... 1) They recognize the symptoms now.... 2) They have recourse and a direction(protocol) if they experience the symptoms...(before?..not so much)... 3) They better understand the damage their brain is taking.... So....while old school players did whatever they had to do to play.....todays players are a little more educated(and smarter?) now that we've had a few Mike Websters and Junior Seaus.... Chris Borland anyone????.....perfect example of a hard nosed player quitting just because he loves his brain more than football or $$$$......and the education he received on concussions probably had a lot to do with this choice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Kinda hard to fake much of any injury now. Look up what an MRI shows. Hamstring, sprain or strain, it shows all. Concussion?, Kinda hard to fake that now too. 21st century guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Kinda hard to fake much of any injury now. Look up what an MRI shows. Hamstring, sprain or strain, it shows all. My only point is that there is no protocol to check strains and sprains.....if team wants to keep a guy out, they can simply say he pulled a hamstring and no one will question it....or call for an MRI...... Now....if a player says he's hurt, then maybe the team can or will check that out....but not the league..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustaJagsFan Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 I agree about skill position players, but in fairness, we never skipped a beat at TE. Cameron was replaced by Barnidge, who has played better, and has stayed healthier. And McCown and Hoyer had the same weapons as Johnny. In the 7 games where McCown took the majority of the snaps, the Browns averaged 21.8 points per game and 290.1 passing yards per game. In the 7 games where Manziel took the majority of the snaps, the Browns averaged 15.3 points per game and 195.5 passing yards per game. But, since the defense had its two best games of the year with Johnny under center, and held the lowly Titans to 14 and the lowly 49ers to 10 ... Johnny was better. Our third best defensive game was holding the Chiefs to 17, but our QB was 13-32 in that game. We gave up 24 or more points in all of McCowns starts ... but I'm sure that was his fault. Johnny "inspired" the defense. Zombo I stand corrected about the TE position, but the overall analysis remains unchanged. If ANY QB is to succeed in Cleveland, he'll need more help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Devils advocate here.......... Assuming Gordon comes back next year(which Im feeling is gonna happen).... He's the #1 WR....for sure..... Benji is #2 WR....for sure..... Hawkins is likely the #3 or slot guy(and one of the best, at that)..... And Barnidge is your TE...... And Duke is your HB..... The only place I truly see a deep need for "skill player upgrades" are at QB.....and maybe RB with Crowell..... So....assuming the above.....where do the "new skill players" go.....or who do they replace and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Devils advocate here..... ..... Assuming Gordon comes back next year(which Im feeling is gonna happen).... He's the #1 WR....for sure..... Benji is #2 WR....for sure..... Hawkins is likely the #3 or slot guy(and one of the best, at that)..... And Barnidge is your TE...... And Duke is your HB..... The only place I truly see a deep need for "skill player upgrades" are at QB.....and maybe RB with Crowell..... So....assuming the above.....where do the "new skill players" go.....or who do they replace and why? Again, I said it before......whatever personnell guy we have coming in here (and I don't think it will be Ray Farmer).....it would not surprise me if a WR and a RB were taken fairly high. I mean....we have to make up for Farmer's fuckups with Terence West and Vince Mayle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 So....you dont think Duke is a suitable(or even excellent) follow up to West?..... And....assuming he returns.....would Josh Gordon not be a quality #1 in place of Mayle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 So....you dont think Duke is a suitable(or even excellent) follow up to West?..... And....assuming he returns.....would Josh Gordon not be a quality #1 in place of Mayle? Sure.....both would be right. I am just saying, don't be surprised if our next GM goes Ghoolie on us and wants more weaponry at the offensive skill positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 1) I would guess that they just walk in and report that their head hurts or they are having symptoms.... 2) During a game, if a player receives a mjor blow to the head, there are league spotters who have the authority to conduct a sideline check....this happens often.....but not always........Sometimes a player feels fine and no one notices the hit, so it goes undiagnosed, unless the player says something..... 3) I have no clue...but doubt that its a critical thing to know....if he has a concussion, he has a concussion.....and thats all that really matters, right?>... Adrenalin can play a role the day of the injury. I've seen NFL players pop up after a big hit and shake their head and continue to play. The "head shake" should be an unmissable red flag, yet it does not seem to be. As for the diagnosis "delay"... Some symptoms can be delayed for days. My money here is on light sensitivity showing up. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/concussion/basics/symptoms/con-20019272 And in reply to Gip- every NFL player now has a "baseline" normal. You don't get to practice or play until you return to normal. That's why Haden and Hawkins got permanently sat this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillmotion Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Gotcha, I do think JM is faking it, or that Pet set it up. Just wondered why he was ruled out so quickly? Usually they leave questionable or game time status up there, unless you need to get cleared by the protocol a week early or some shit.... i don't know much about the protocol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Well, on the last point, it just seems that Johnny did fine....sort of...in the latter part of the game. Nothing affected him there. And what is the issue about saying right now that he is out for Sunday. Wouldn't it be better to wait and see. There are still 3 days between now and then. How cant they tell right now that he wouldn't be capable of playing Sunday? i think you make a great point...don't they usually give day to day updates?...i have not seen any... i think this all bullshit...He just wants out and somehow pulled this shit off...Kind of like that running back we had...hillis...to this day, no one will ever ever change my mind in that the asshole was faking his injury... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 What's the difference in symptoms between "concussed" and "hung over" ? I have all of those symptoms after a few too many rounds of scotch. Give me a bottle of Glenlivet Nadurra and a couple Cohibas and I won't get to my baseline for a couple days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 And in reply to Gip- every NFL player now has a "baseline" normal. You don't get to practice or play until you return to normal. That's why Haden and Hawkins got permanently sat this year. yeah, but there were updates usually with the progress. I have not seen shit on chonnie...again, who gives a shit at this point, let him go to dallas where he wants to go anyway...he's a texassss boy in his heart... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Devils advocate here..... ..... Assuming Gordon comes back next year(which Im feeling is gonna happen).... He's the #1 WR....for sure..... Benji is #2 WR....for sure..... Hawkins is likely the #3 or slot guy(and one of the best, at that)..... And Barnidge is your TE...... And Duke is your HB..... The only place I truly see a deep need for "skill player upgrades" are at QB.....and maybe RB with Crowell..... So....assuming the above.....where do the "new skill players" go.....or who do they replace and why? don't agree with benjamin...too small. he's good special team player and that is it...returning kicks, punts etc...would have been nice to see bowe pan out and play like he did the first few yrs with the chiefs...don't know what happened to him...I agree with one of the poster that we need and should get another bigger reciever if available in the draft that can make an immediate impact.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 don't agree with benjamin...too small. he's good special team player and that is it...returning kicks, punts etc...would have been nice to see bowe pan out and play like he did the first few yrs with the chiefs...don't know what happened to him...I agree with one of the poster that we need and should get another bigger reciever if available in the draft that can make an immediate impact.. Bowe is old and according to a KC reporter I heard before the season started was saying that Bowe was done last year and anyone who watched the games should've been able to see it. He isn't going to pan out unless he finds a delorean and can get it up to 88mph and go back in time. He's getting released and we eat the $9 million guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Bowe is old and according to a KC reporter I heard before the season started was saying that Bowe was done last year and anyone who watched the games should've been able to see it. He isn't going to pan out unless he finds a delorean and can get it up to 88mph and go back in time. He's getting released and we eat the $9 million guaranteed. I love listening to Doug Dieken on Monday afternoons when he calls into the Bull & Fox show. He always talks about some behind the scenes stuff that nobody else will talk about. This week when Doug called in he was discussing Dwayne Bowe. According to Doug, he said that Bowe has developed a following of younger players. He is filling them with negativity, such as telling them that the weight room and conditioning really isn't that important. From the way Dieken described Bowe, he sounds like a locker room cancer. Time to cut him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suomi Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 My opinion: Manziel doesn't have what it takes to be an effective quarterback in the NFL. He's not a very accurate passer. In the NFL you have to hit open receivers; Manziel has made a quick career of missing them. He's too short to see over the O-Line. That wasn't as debilitating at A&M because Manziel just chucked jump balls to Evans when he couldn't see. That doesn't work in the NFL. He can't control his behavior off the field. A QB is the face of an NFL franchise. Manziel's face is covered in greasepaint. Is he exciting when he scrambles? You bet. Is he going to win in the NFL? Hell no. The quarterback search continues... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbluhm86 Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 I don't see what the big deal is with the NFL benching Manziel and other players with concussions. I mean, Kosar used to play while hungover concussed all the time, and yet he shows no ill side effects today, right? These NFL doctors today have no idea what they're talking about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richiswhere Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 I think it just boils down to practicing for the game.....and if Johnny cant practice, then he wont be prepared...... Maybe, if he recovers today or something, they could get him some reps....otherwise im guessing they'd rather just go with the guy who practiced all week..... This might be part of it but the main problem is Johnny didn't report any problems until Wednesday. Most of the time we know of these concussions durning or after the game but by not knowing anything until Wednesday, Johnny lost 3 days of proper healing time. Even when guys are concussed on Sundays you still aren't hearing of them being cleared to play until the end of the week. It wouldn't surprise me in the very near future that the NFL will make it mandatory for a player that had a concussion to miss the following game. Truth be told I kind of wished that Johnny hadn't said anything and that probably 10 time worse that all these people saying hes faking it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 Can we just forfeit, and get it over with? Or is every guy with a f**king headache now in "concussion protocol"? It's good for the players long term health and blah blah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 Some responses here about faking are just plain ignorant. If Manziel is "faking" a concussion, then the MD who is checking him for it needs to be fired for not knowing how to detect a "fake" from a real concussion. It's ludicrous to suggest that either Manziel or Pettine are using this as a convenient out for Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 In a rare turn of events i agree with tcpo on her last point I don't. I'll never believe this organization didn't give JM every opportunity to start day one. If he was worth a dogshit he woulda grabbed the reigns day one from Hoyer. Instead we had to wait till week 14 to see y he didn't, the shittist debut ever. Wasted a whole off-season due to Therapy. Honestly 2015 woulda impressed me if he was a 5th round pick or worse. His biggest issue was pointed out by Rich Gannon. He just doesnt take his work home with him enough the way everyone else does. Because God forbid, we have proof of what his free time entails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 The more I think about it, the more I don't see a way out of taking a QB first. We're going to have a new GM, and probably new coaching staff. Even if we just have a new GM, he's going to want his own QB. He won't want to pin his career on a guy that hasn't proven near enough, can't stay out of the negative light, and will probably be a risk to get injured every week. The sad thing is, I really WANT Manziel to succeed. I relate well to people fighting addiction, and I want them to fight through it and succeed. I also enjoy Manziel's style of play, and think he could be an absolute riot to watch (if he gets his accuracy down). But he was injured to end the year last season, he's injured again, and I get the feeling that the "reset button" is looming. Goff is the guy, and I think his stock is going to skyrocket soon. Paxton Lynch will get a ton of publicity, as his physical prowess is unmatched, but Goff's arm and cerebral manner will serve him well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 Browns looking to draft the next great QB year after year after year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 What's the difference in symptoms between "concussed" and "hung over" ? I have all of those symptoms after a few too many rounds of scotch. Give me a bottle of Glenlivet Nadurra and a couple Cohibas and I won't get to my baseline for a couple days. If you wake up feeling that way after drinking AND have a bump on your head, it's likely to be a concussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 Read an interesting article on the Browns and all their concussions......(and think I gained a lil insight here) As noted previously, we lead the league in the # of players with concussions and # of games missed due to concussions......and, even more telling, is that we have led the league since 2013 in these stats.....having the most concussions over the last 3 years..... And, this season, we have 2 guys who have suffered fairly severe concussions.....Haden and Hawkins..... And what Im hearing, when they and other players talk about them, is fear......concern....worry..... And I think this comes from them learning about it .....and then witnessing some pretty serious head knocks......and them seeing their teammates(more than any other team) suffering the consequences......which creates MORE discussion and more concern and more fear about concussions, etc.... and since everyone is SO tuned into it....pretty soon....it becomes a self fulfilling thing.....and every player that feels a little off, or a head ache, or a little dizzy is now asking to be checked????.......simply due to the fear factor created by constant exposure?????.. And, once you come forward with symptoms..... protocol happens.....ala time missed, games missed, etc.... Maybe the Browns players have just developed a "fear of concussion culture" without even realizing it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 It's amazing what a title will do for someone.......a title like "first round pick", for example...... If we picked Johnny in the 3rd round or the 5th round(where many thought he SHOULD be picked).......would he even be here now?....would people still be expecting great things?.......would there be so many fighting for him to stay?..... I think not..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 Get concussed like a Brown??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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