tml1138 Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 I came here today to see what's going on and get some excitement for tomorrow. But this blathering over JF...still exciting but not what I had in mind. Moving on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 Can't wait to merge all of the Johnny Football threads and close them when we don't pick him. I think he has T-Rich's record beat. Zombo Merge them now. And then Friday morning you will probably be able to close them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 ESPN Sal Palentonio reported on NFL Live moments ago. Sal interviewed Ray Farmer and reported the following: "Yesterday Haslam came into their draft meeting, looked everybody in the eye and then addressed Ray Farmer and said, 'This is your pick. This is your draft.' Obviously trying to douse speculation that it's Haslam who is calling the shots." "However, when I asked Ray Farmer to describe Johnny Manziel. What his reaction to Johnny Manziel. He gave me two words. He said, 'Polarizing Lightening-rod.' He did not say two-words, franchise quarterback." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 Farmer has nothing but good to say about every one. Espn tryin like hell to blow their darling JF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 Only one who knows for sure who they will get is the team who picks No. one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 Not even doing a mock. I'm sure plenty of people will say they guessed it right back in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 Farmer has nothing but good to say about every one. Espn tryin like hell to blow their darling JF. Sorry, but I fail to see how you can interpret Sal's report as a positive for JF... At best it's a Farmer smokescreen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 If we are looking for a "polarizing, lightning rod" player, we should draft someone from Palantonio's hometown of Philly: Ben Franklin. I mean, he would be money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 No JF Yes Evans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 Derek Carr will throw twice the interceptions as Manziel could ever dream of throwing. Derick Carr will remind us of Weeden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 Was going to make my case against JF in a new thread, but on an effort to preserve Z's sanity...or what's left of it... here goes... Besides it'd just get merged anyway... like my Sal Pal thread did... http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29134&page=9&do=findComment&comment=404191 =========================================== Why Johnny Manziel must not be drafted. The 2012/ 2013 Texas Aggie Edition of Johnny Manziel that thrilled millions of fans is as good as he will ever be. So the first question is how good was he? Was he Pro playoff good? Yes... Was he Pro Conference Champ good? I don't think so... so I can not see a single SB appearance in a team's future with him at the helm. So next question is why isn't he Conf Champ good? For this we have to look at QB comparisons... Favre (2 SB appearances; 1 SB win) There are a lot of valid elements to this popular comparison... running ability... gambling nature... guts... bailing out of pocket... poor judgment.. ego... However, the one element lacking that collapses the comparison is arm strength and without this critical element Manziel will consistently write Favre-like checks that his JF arm cannot cash. Fran Tarkenton (3 SB appearances; 0 SB wins) Sir Francis, as those of us at certain age know him, was a trailblazer in the art of scrambling. And he scrambled out of necessity. Tarkenton ran for his life behind some very porous lines in both MN and NY. Fran almost exclusively ran to buy time to pass... to extend pass plays. He "ran" infrequently averaging just over 15 ypg for his career... his 18-year career. His rushing zenith was 376 yards on 62 carries in 12 games in 1966. Not coincidentally in '66 Fran missed the only two starts of his career outside of his rookie season. This in an era where there was open season on any QB, if you could catch them. Fran ran 675 times in an 18-year pro career... JF ran 345 times in a two-year college career. Some of JF's runs were by staff/ game plan design, but many, many more were spawned by JF's lack of patience in the pocket. And finally... R. Wilson (1 SB appearance; 1 SB win) I've seen this comparison in a few places and it bewilders me. Beyond size (including the now popular hand size), it's hard to find any valid elements here. Wilson is a smart football player who plays under control.... even runs under control. He's a team first player who checks his ego with the equipment manager when he suits up. He is a "game manager". In other words RW is the temperamental polar opposite of JF. Ego is the clincher I see that dooms JF and his team to "also ran" perpetuity. I think the above addresses the "why isn't he Conf Champ good" question leaving one last question... Why can't JF improve and become Conf Champ/ SB good? The above ego comments may suffice, but to answer this I have to draw upon one more comparison.... one I have seldom seen, but feel is most apt. Michael Vick (0 SB appearances; 0 SB wins) Michael has a stronger arm, but otherwise I think they are a match. Speed, size, competitiveness and ego-driven game inflexibility are all there. If I had $100,000 for every time Vick got dinged running around "being Michael Vick" followed by "if Michael Vick could only learn to be a pocket passer", then I'd have another million dollars... and host a Browns Board party in a Browns Suite. But whenever coaches tried to reign in Michael, they took away what made Michael "electric". They made him "average". The same will be true of JF. You cannot make a near-great player great by eliminating the characteristic(s) that made him near-great. A near-great career is all Manziel will ever have... just like Michael Vick... minus the whole dog thing... hopefully... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 Was going to make my case against JF in a new thread, but on an effort to preserve Z's sanity...or what's left of it... here goes... Besides it'd just get merged anyway... like my Sal Pal thread did... http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29134&page=9&do=findComment&comment=404191 Thanks. We have three active Johnny Football threads which are comprised of 119 smaller Johnny Football threads. I think he's the best QB in the draft, but I am starting to hope he goes to Pittsburgh since I have a head start on hating him from all the gushing. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 Thanks. We have three active Johnny Football threads which are comprised of 119 smaller Johnny Football threads. I think he's the best QB in the draft, but I am starting to hope he goes to Pittsburgh since I have a head start on hating him from all the gushing. Zombo doubt he goes to pittsburgh. ben said yesterday he doesn't think he could stay upright in this league..... Ben Roethlisberger would choose Blake Bortles over Johnny ManzielSince nobody seems to know which about-to-be-drafted quarterback will go where and to whom, we might as well listen to Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger to get his thoughts on the matter. Roethlisberger's take: he likes Johnny Manziel and Blake Bortles, but if he wanted a long-term franchise signal-caller, he'd probably go with the latter. “I talked to Blake, and I know Blake has that fiery chip,” Roethlisberger said on 93.7 FM in Pittsburgh, via the Tribune Review. “I think he's going to be the best one of the group because I see something in him, his competitiveness, his leadership. And I think he's got a lot of upside.” But that's not to say Roethlisberger doesn't think Manziel can find professional success. He even said Manziel could be a star early in his career. What Roethlisberger worries about, though, is the long-term viability of allowing Manziel to make plays outside of the pocket. More from Roethlisberger: “I was in the weight room the other day with Joey Porter, (and he was) asking me what I thought about Manziel. I looked at Joey and said, ‘Joey, do you think if you got a good hit on him, that he would be OK? And he said, ‘No, not at all.' And that's my question. “You have guys like Joey Porter, who's a big guy, guys that are fast like Troy (Polamalu), Ike Taylor coming off the edge, Lawrence Timmons. You'd better be real athletic, get down or be big to absorb the pounding an NFL quarterback can take. “I think he definitely has a lot of upside, but let's wait and see. The key I'll say every year when I get asked about RGIII (Robert Griffin III), Andrew Luck, or whoever it is, Cam Newton. It's not about your first year, it's about years two, three and four. “Can you sustain it when defenses, like Coach (Dick) LeBeau and the defenses he coaches, when they figure you out, can you find a way to stay a step above them?" It's a legitimate question from one of the most durable quarterbacks in the league. And Roethlisberger certainly isn't alone in wondering if this is Manziel's fatal flaw. Soon enough,we'll see if Jacksonville is one of those who have questions about it. even though the guys a rapist he might no a little something about taking hits in the nfl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 I think youre really scraping the bottom of the barrel now Tour. Id be happy with playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 But tour who came here because he loved McCoy. LMAO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 Just fucking with ya... Carry on. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 How tall is JF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 JF is actually the secret lovechild of JFK and MM conceived on a spaceship where the two of them live out there days with Elvis as their butler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 Just fucking with ya... Carry on. WSS lol... well done, Sir... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 got me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 But tour who came here because he loved McCoy. LMAO. I don't think that was the reason.. more like I love the Browns, but whatever... I do remember thinking that of the choices of an over-the-hill Delhomme, a never was Wallach and Colt, that Colt was the clear choice. Also remember saying that Wheezy was a terrible pick and was never going to be the guy, and that Colt deserved to start over him. You want to argue for any of the other three mentioned above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 I think youre really scraping the bottom of the barrel now Tour. Id be happy with playoffs. So you are willing to settle for also-ran... congrats on that... Who's scraping now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 Tour2ma's PhotoTour2ma Today, 10:13 PM Westside Steve, on 07 May 2014 - 8:39 PM, said: Just fucking with ya... Carry on. WSS lol... well done, Sir... Shucks old crabapple can't even take a little joke... WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Make-Believe Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 ... Why do so few people have Jacksonville selecting Manziel 3rd overall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 Hoorta, you honestly sound like a dad from the 1950's right now. Manziel has gotten his shit together the past year and has done everything to train hard and not get into any trouble. He's lightyears ahead of turds like Mettenbooger and Winston in that regard. Manziel will be fine and a gem for whatever team decides to take him You know who else sounds like a dad from the 50s? Most GMs- because they're around my age. And I hate to tell you they will all have the same concerns that I do- especially when they're having the owner write million dollar checks for a guy. They probably don't want him showing up on a police report. It's also a little thing called job security. Screwing up on a top 10 pick is a recipe for a quick trip to the unemployment line. What was wrong with that picture? And what teenager has ever handled fame and adulation well? Every other one of the other top qbs in the draft? Bridgewater buying a Cadillac for his mom? Carr staying home with the wife? You want to tell me McCarron wasn't as high profile quarterbacking a National Championship team at Alabama? He seems to have handled dating a super model quite nicely, thank you very much. OTOH, Manziel sucked up all the fame and adulation like a dehydrated pig at a water trough, and used his notoriety as Carte Blanche to behave for the most part as a Class A asshole off the field. And it was totally unnecessary. What was wrong with that picture? Hello? Like none of those guys are dopers? The NFL is all about image- and if you're going to hang with those sort of guys- don't put it on your Twitter page- jerk. I hope LeBum can knock some sense into his thick head. this isn't about drafting some second string running back- it's about drafting the face of your franchise. ... Why do so few people have Jacksonville selecting Manziel 3rd overall? Haha- the stealth pick. If it's all about putting fans in the stands- no franchise picking in the top 5 needs that more than the Jags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 or... Damn, Fat-Turd... why did you wait until now to start thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 ClevelandCleveland Browns should take Texas A&M's Johnny Manziel in 2014 NFL Draft -- Bill Livingston Texas A&M quarterback Johnny Manziel (2) rushes for a touchdown against Florida. Bill Livingston says the Browns should draft Manziel with their first pick in the NFL Draft. (AP) By Bill Livingston, The Plain Dealer Email the author | Follow on Twitter on May 07, 2014 at 6:00 AM, updated May 07, 2014 at 6:30 AM Reddit CLEVELAND, Ohio -- With the first pick in the 2014 NFL Draft, the Cleveland Browns should take Texas A&M quarterback Johnny Manziel. But will they? As reader Steve Urcheck wrote on my Facebook page: "It's so CLE to put all your trust into Brian Hoyer. He's a great story. CLE kid kind of an underdog. But facts are facts. If you have been cut several times and been a back up for this long, there are reasons. He's not going to turn Into Kurt Warner or Roy Hobbs. We need a superstar that makes this Franchise relevant again. All professional teams regardless of sport win with stars that make plays and perform in crunch time. RT, Receivers and LB help, but are not game changers. Bill Livingston I AM READY FOR SOME JOHNNY FOOTBALL!!!!!!!!!!"" I've argued much the same recently. Also not so recently. But Manziel is a high-risk, high-reward proposition. Some of those who speak Scout Talk and clutter the airwaves with biomechanical mumbo-jumbo might have been won over by Manziel's excellent Pro Day in College Station, Texas, although others will always consider genius to be suspicious. Mike Holmgren, who disciplined Brett Favre enough to win a Super Bowl with the ol' gunslinger in Green Bay, calls Manziel "too free-lancey." I'd say Holmgren was too free-loady as the Browns' supremo. None of his quarterback choices panned out here. If Manziel isn't there at No. 4, Clemson wide receiver Sammy Watkins is the lowest-risk pick of any skill-position player. My only reservations about Watkins, who burned Ohio State repeatedly in the Orange Bowl, is that the Buckeyes' defense was a match waiting to be struck. On pass defense, Ohio State was not very good, folks. The reason I think the Browns might take Manziel is actually the impetuous owner I've often criticized, Hotspur Haslam himself. When it comes to meddlesome owners – think the human moving van, Art Modell – I'm usually against them. But the Browns have been too conservative (and/or clueless) by half in their past picks since the franchise was restored. They have passed on offense for defense fairly recently (Phil Taylor instead of Julio Jones) and utterly calamitously (Gerard Warren instead of Ladainian Tomlinson.) They overdrafted an under-performer, Trent Richardson, at a position (running back) that is not obsolete, but is complementary in nature in today's game. Haslam's executives were aggressive in free agency, and there is no doubt the owner wants to make a big statement in the NFL Draft to counter the bad reviews he's gotten for dumping Bernie Kosar from the exhibition-game television team. Haslam has a flair for the big move, the outsized gesture. He tried to trade for San Francisco coach Jim Harbaugh. He's not going to be the type who wants to play it safe. The Browns have some serious pieces to the contention puzzle, chief among them wideout Josh Gordon. He is coming off the best receiving season in franchise history, despite serving a two-game suspension at its start and not having an elite quarterback to throw to him. Manziel made plays I saw no one else in college football make. Put him and Gordon together and let the fans dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDog Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 "Manziel made plays I saw no one else in college football make." Pure BS. Show me a play he make and i'll find a highlight of someone that can do BETTER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 livingston is the second biggest windbag in cleveland right behind that crooked face bidatch MKC. someone stick a pin in him already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 I usually don't do it, but since this is Draft Day I decided to listen to the radio here at the office. But what is pissing me off is the fact that these idiots cannot talk about anyone else except Johnny Manziel. Now, I am not necessarily opposed to taking Johnny Manziel.....but why does he have to be THE exclusive topic of conversation? There is a 99% chance that the Browns will NOT take this guy. So why do they have to spend 99% of their time talking about a guy that won't be here. Please, for fuck's sake....close all Johnny Manziel topics on this board unless that 1% chance of the Browns taking him come to fruition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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